/lit/ - Literature

When our Lord and Master Jesus Christ said, ``Repent'' (Mt 4:17), he willed the entire life of believers to be one of repentance.
This word cannot be understood as referring to the sacrament of penance, that is, confession and satisfaction, as administered by the clergy.
Yet it does not mean solely inner repentance; such inner repentance is worthless unless it produces various outward mortification of the flesh.
The penalty of sin remains as long as the hatred of self (that is, true inner repentance), namely till our entrance into the kingdom of heaven.
The pope neither desires nor is able to remit any penalties except those imposed by his own authority or that of the canons.
The pope cannot remit any guilt, except by declaring and showing that it has been remitted by God; or, to be sure, by remitting guilt in cases reserved to his judgment. If his right to grant remission in these cases were disregarded, the guilt would certainly remain unforgiven.
God remits guilt to no one unless at the same time he humbles him in all things and makes him submissive to the vicar, the priest.
The penitential canons are imposed only on the living, and, according to the canons themselves, nothing should be imposed on the dying.
Therefore the Holy Spirit through the pope is kind to us insofar as the pope in his decrees always makes exception of the article of death and of necessity.
Those priests act ignorantly and wickedly who, in the case of the dying, reserve canonical penalties for purgatory.
Those tares of changing the canonical penalty to the penalty of purgatory were evidently sown while the bishops slept (Mt 13:25).
In former times canonical penalties were imposed, not after, but before absolution, as tests of true contrition.
The dying are freed by death from all penalties, are already dead as far as the canon laws are concerned, and have a right to be released from them.
Imperfect piety or love on the part of the dying person necessarily brings with it great fear; and the smaller the love, the greater the fear.
This fear or horror is sufficient in itself, to say nothing of other things, to constitute the penalty of purgatory, since it is very near to the horror of despair.
Hell, purgatory, and heaven seem to differ the same as despair, fear, and assurance of salvation.
It seems as though for the souls in purgatory fear should necessarily decrease and love increase.
Furthermore, it does not seem proved, either by reason or by Scripture, that souls in purgatory are outside the state of merit, that is, unable to grow in love.
Nor does it seem proved that souls in purgatory, at least not all of them, are certain and assured of their own salvation, even if we ourselves may be entirely certain of it.
Therefore the pope, when he uses the words ``plenary remission of all penalties,'' does not actually mean ``all penalties,'' but only those imposed by himself.

Therefore the pope, when he uses the words ``plenary remission of all penalties,'' does not actually mean ``all penalties,'' but only those imposed by himself.
Thus those indulgence preachers are in error who say that a man is absolved from every penalty and saved by papal indulgences.
As a matter of fact, the pope remits to souls in purgatory no penalty which, according to canon law, they should have paid in this life.
If remission of all penalties whatsoever could be granted to anyone at all, certainly it would be granted only to the most perfect, that is, to very few.
For this reason most people are necessarily deceived by that indiscriminate and high-sounding promise of release from penalty.
That power which the pope has in general over purgatory corresponds to the power which any bishop or curate has in a particular way in his own diocese and parish.
The pope does very well when he grants remission to souls in purgatory, not by the power of the keys, which he does not have, but by way of intercession for them.
They preach only human doctrines who say that as soon as the money clinks into the money chest, the soul flies out of purgatory.
It is certain that when money clinks in the money chest, greed and avarice can be increased; but when the church intercedes, the result is in the hands of God alone.
Who knows whether all souls in purgatory wish to be redeemed, since we have exceptions in St. Severinus and St. Paschal, as related in a legend.
No one is sure of the integrity of his own contrition, much less of having received plenary remission.
The man who actually buys indulgences is as rare as he who is really penitent; indeed, he is exceedingly rare.
Those who believe that they can be certain of their salvation because they have indulgence letters will be eternally damned, together with their teachers.
Men must especially be on guard against those who say that the pope's pardons are that inestimable gift of God by which man is reconciled to him.
For the graces of indulgences are concerned only with the penalties of sacramental satisfaction established by man.
They who teach that contrition is not necessary on the part of those who intend to buy souls out of purgatory or to buy confessional privileges preach unchristian doctrine.
Any truly repentant Christian has a right to full remission of penalty and guilt, even without indulgence letters.
Any true Christian, whether living or dead, participates in all the blessings of Christ and the church; and this is granted him by God, even without indulgence letters.
Nevertheless, papal remission and blessing are by no means to be disregarded, for they are, as I have said (Thesis 6), the proclamation of the divine remission.
It is very difficult, even for the most learned theologians, at one and the same time to commend to the people the bounty of indulgences and the need of true contrition.

A Christian who is truly contrite seeks and loves to pay penalties for his sins; the bounty of indulgences, however, relaxes penalties and causes men to hate them -- at least it furnishes occasion for hating them.
Papal indulgences must be preached with caution, lest people erroneously think that they are preferable to other good works of love.
Christians are to be taught that the pope does not intend that the buying of indulgences should in any way be compared with works of mercy.
Christians are to be taught that he who gives to the poor or lends to the needy does a better deed than he who buys indulgences.
Because love grows by works of love, man thereby becomes better. Man does not, however, become better by means of indulgences but is merely freed from penalties.
Christians are to be taught that he who sees a needy man and passes him by, yet gives his money for indulgences, does not buy papal indulgences but God's wrath.
Christians are to be taught that, unless they have more than they need, they must reserve enough for their family needs and by no means squander it on indulgences.
Christians are to be taught that they buying of indulgences is a matter of free choice, not commanded.
Christians are to be taught that the pope, in granting indulgences, needs and thus desires their devout prayer more than their money.
Christians are to be taught that papal indulgences are useful only if they do not put their trust in them, but very harmful if they lose their fear of God because of them.
Christians are to be taught that if the pope knew the exactions of the indulgence preachers, he would rather that the basilica of St. Peter were burned to ashes than built up with the skin, flesh, and bones of his sheep.
Christians are to be taught that the pope would and should wish to give of his own money, even though he had to sell the basilica of St. Peter, to many of those from whom certain hawkers of indulgences cajole money.
It is vain to trust in salvation by indulgence letters, even though the indulgence commissary, or even the pope, were to offer his soul as security.
They are the enemies of Christ and the pope who forbid altogether the preaching of the Word of God in some churches in order that indulgences may be preached in others.
Injury is done to the Word of God when, in the same sermon, an equal or larger amount of time is devoted to indulgences than to the Word.
It is certainly the pope's sentiment that if indulgences, which are a very insignificant thing, are celebrated with one bell, one procession, and one ceremony, then the gospel, which is the very greatest thing, should be preached with a hundred bells, a hundred processions, a hundred ceremonies.
The true treasures of the church, out of which the pope distributes indulgences, are not sufficiently discussed or known among the people of Christ.
That indulgences are not temporal treasures is certainly clear, for many indulgence sellers do not distribute them freely but only gather them.

reminder

>catholic calling others pagans
Go pray to your idols, papist scum.

Nor are they the merits of Christ and the saints, for, even without the pope, the latter always work grace for the inner man, and the cross, death, and hell for the outer man.
St. Lawrence said that the poor of the church were the treasures of the church, but he spoke according to the usage of the word in his own time.
Without want of consideration we say that the keys of the church, given by the merits of Christ, are that treasure.
For it is clear that the pope's power is of itself sufficient for the remission of penalties and cases reserved by himself.
The true treasure of the church is the most holy gospel of the glory and grace of God.
But this treasure is naturally most odious, for it makes the first to be last (Mt. 20:16).
On the other hand, the treasure of indulgences is naturally most acceptable, for it makes the last to be first.
Therefore the treasures of the gospel are nets with which one formerly fished for men of wealth.
The treasures of indulgences are nets with which one now fishes for the wealth of men.
The indulgences which the demagogues acclaim as the greatest graces are actually understood to be such only insofar as they promote gain.
They are nevertheless in truth the most insignificant graces when compared with the grace of God and the piety of the cross.
Bishops and curates are bound to admit the commissaries of papal indulgences with all reverence.
But they are much more bound to strain their eyes and ears lest these men preach their own dreams instead of what the pope has commissioned.
Let him who speaks against the truth concerning papal indulgences be anathema and accursed.
But let him who guards against the lust and license of the indulgence preachers be blessed.
Just as the pope justly thunders against those who by any means whatever contrive harm to the sale of indulgences.
Much more does he intend to thunder against those who use indulgences as a pretext to contrive harm to holy love and truth.
To consider papal indulgences so great that they could absolve a man even if he had done the impossible and had violated the mother of God is madness.
We say on the contrary that papal indulgences cannot remove the very least of venial sins as far as guilt is concerned.
To say that even St. Peter if he were now pope, could not grant greater graces is blasphemy against St. Peter and the pope.
We say on the contrary that even the present pope, or any pope whatsoever, has greater graces at his disposal, that is, the gospel, spiritual powers, gifts of healing, etc., as it is written. (1 Co 12[:28])
To say that the cross emblazoned with the papal coat of arms, and set up by the indulgence preachers is equal in worth to the cross of Christ is blasphemy.
The bishops, curates, and theologians who permit such talk to be spread among the people will have to answer for this.

This unbridled preaching of indulgences makes it difficult even for learned men to rescue the reverence which is due the pope from slander or from the shrewd questions of the laity.
Such as: ``Why does not the pope empty purgatory for the sake of holy love and the dire need of the souls that are there if he redeems an infinite number of souls for the sake of miserable money with which to build a church?'' The former reason would be most just; the latter is most trivial.
Again, ``Why are funeral and anniversary masses for the dead continued and why does he not return or permit the withdrawal of the endowments founded for them, since it is wrong to pray for the redeemed?''
Again, ``What is this new piety of God and the pope that for a consideration of money they permit a man who is impious and their enemy to buy out of purgatory the pious soul of a friend of God and do not rather, beca use of the need of that pious and beloved soul, free it for pure love's sake?''
Again, ``Why are the penitential canons, long since abrogated and dead in actual fact and through disuse, now satisfied by the granting of indulgences as though they were still alive and in force?''
Again, ``Why does not the pope, whose wealth is today greater than the wealth of the richest Crassus, build this one basilica of St. Peter with his own money rather than with the money of poor believers?''
Again, ``What does the pope remit or grant to those who by perfect contrition already have a right to full remission and blessings?''
Again, ``What greater blessing could come to the church than if the pope were to bestow these remissions and blessings on every believer a hundred times a day, as he now does but once?''
``Since the pope seeks the salvation of souls rather than money by his indulgences, why does he suspend the indulgences and pardons previously granted when they have equal efficacy?''
To repress these very sharp arguments of the laity by force alone, and not to resolve them by giving reasons, is to expose the church and the pope to the ridicule of their enemies and to make Christians unhappy.
If, therefore, indulgences were preached according to the spirit and intention of the pope, all these doubts would be readily resolved. Indeed, they would not exist.
Away, then, with all those prophets who say to the people of Christ, ``Peace, peace,'' and there is no peace! (Jer 6:14)
Blessed be all those prophets who say to the people of Christ, ``Cross, cross,'' and there is no cross!
Christians should be exhorted to be diligent in following Christ, their Head, through penalties, death and hell.
And thus be confident of entering into heaven through many tribulations rather than through the false security of peace (Acts 14:22).

I just nailed all 95 theses to your thread papist scum

>>10222983
>``Repent'' (Mt 4:17)
m8, that's the KJV chapter and verse, Catholic one is every good tree brings forth good fruit and the evil tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

I'm Protestan.

>>10223006
FUCK OFF YOU HERETIC FUCK!!!! REEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!

>>10222983
>>10222988
>>10222990
>>10222997
>>10223000
>all 95 theses
this is like playing exodia
this catholic thread is over

Anyone read this? It was recommended to me

>>10223027
I don't understand this. What does "target" mean?

>>10223027
what is the relevance

>>10223027
Is the Bible the ultimate postmodern text?

>>10223030
multiple prophecies written (according to historical scholars) centuries before Christ was born all happen to be correct on the time, place, and person
>>10223041
i just posted it for a bump

>>10223045
Elaborate, provide examples

>>10222992
So I guess when the LGBT use the rainbow flag, they're actually being Christian, since the rainbow symbolized God's promise to Noah long before it symbolized gay rights....

>>10223027
>target within the bible
this is why prods can't handle tobit or postmodernism. i bet they're behind most abridgments.

>>10223058
Yule was a pagan holiday, (early) christians did not celebrate it. European converts to christianity refused to stop celebrating Yule so the church gave it a superficial makeover and called it Christmas. This is all accepted historical fact.

Decorating a tree and giving each other gifts with reindeer and santa claus decorations has nothing to do with christianity

Your post is a very bad attempt at a false equivalency

>>10223048
Genesis 22:18
"In your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice."

2 Samuel 7:12
"When your days are complete and you lie down with your fathers, I will raise up your descendant after you, who will come forth from you, and I will establish his kingdom.

Psalm 89:3
"I have made a covenant with My chosen; I have sworn to David My servant,

Psalm 132:11
The LORD has sworn to David A truth from which He will not turn back: "Of the fruit of your body I will set upon your throne.

Isaiah 9:6
For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

Isaiah 11:1
Then a shoot will spring from the stem of Jesse, And a branch from his roots will bear fruit.

Matthew 9:27
As Jesus went on from there, two blind men followed Him, crying out, "Have mercy on us, Son of David!"

Luke 1:32
"He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David;

Luke 1:69
And has raised up a horn of salvation for us In the house of David His servant--

Luke 3:32
the son of Jesse, the son of Obed, the son of Boaz, the son of Salmon, the son of Nahshon,

John 7:42
"Has not the Scripture said that the Christ comes from the descendants of David, and from Bethlehem, the village where David was?"

Acts 13:23
"From the descendants of this man, according to promise, God has brought to Israel a Savior, Jesus,

Romans 1:3
concerning His Son, who was born of a descendant of David according to the flesh,

Galatians 3:16
Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, "And to seeds," as referring to many, but rather to one, "And to your seed," that is, Christ.

Revelation 22:16
"I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star."

>>10223074
>Decorating a tree and giving each other gifts with reindeer and santa claus decorations has nothing to do with christianity
St Nicholas is still canon and more common to give presents on his feast day in Europe. Fir trees are used to show eternity of God, which is why advent crowns are made from them and the candle colours of the liturgical weeks between the start of advent, and Christmas, which incidentally usually lined up with St Nicholas' feast being at the start.
>giving each other gifts
frankincense is a mind altering drug, jesus didn't turn in down when the wise men came (though their feast has moved to old christmas, i doubt your objection is people using the old calendars)

>>10223124
christian delusion knows no bounds

Was anyone else raised catholic only to become an Unironic Pagan in adulthood?

>>10223204
if you have trouble with symbolism this whole board's gonna be real hard

>>10223074
>>10223124

>Yule was a pagan holiday, (early) christians did not celebrate it. European converts to christianity refused to stop celebrating Yule so the church gave it a superficial makeover and called it Christmas. This is all accepted historical fact.

This is incorrect, however. Yule is a Germanic holiday but Christmas came about when Christians were still focused on Rome. The dating came about from being 9 months after the date they had for the annunciation (March 25th). This roughly fell on the same date as Yule (December 21st) and Saturnalia (December 17-23), and Dies Natalis (December 25th).

The emperor could force people to follow their religion so stopping people from celebrating a pagan holiday was no issue. The thing was that people still enjoyed the superficial elements of the holiday so they were adopted into a Christian theme. Yule and Saturnalia had elements of celebration which became part of Christmas, while Dies Natalis did not. This faded over time as well. Gift giving, trees, and whatnot came about again many hundreds of years later from the 16th-18th century for various reasons. Many stories of saints influenced Christmas traditions today.

Cheers.

>>10223267
whats the appeal of paganism

>>10223364
But then we have to throw out all church teaching, including the feasts of archangels and souls because much more of the traditions you listed are preserved by the Orthodox and Insular Church both before Germanic influence took to Rome and maintained past it and the fall of the Roman Empire and The Holy Roman Empire and The German Empire.

The evidence for wreaths being German comes from the 18th C at earliest. The fir crown and use of fir instead of palm fronds is much earlier in Hibernian Churches which invaded Denmark first.

That's why in English speaking regions the idea of gifts on the 6th of December in your shoes is less common, as it is in Rome and Germany. Because it's not from them, it's from Churches outside Rome which preserved more shit than places getting sacked by the Goths.

>>10223267
i was raised catholic then become an atheist at 17 and then became catholic again at 23 and now i'm a theist without any real religious identity but still hold the catholic church in high regard and see it as a force for good in the world

>>10223398
>But then we have to throw out all church teaching
Why? All of this is secular traditions, not church teaching. The church doesn't orchestrate or teach that trees and wreaths and the like are necessary.

>tfw you were able to earn an indulgence for the souls in Purgatory yesterday

Protestants can eat my shit.

>>10223429
>it's apocrypha because i said so
i think you're mistaking yourself for a council and don't understand how doctrine works.

>new teachings don't become mandatory
literally the days of obligation. if you don't get ashes on ash wednesday even cafeteria catholics are doing better than you according to the church. how has a nun not whipped you yet, do you live in a protestant state?

>>10223432
>having scruples
>posting jesuit
didn't you read any ignatius loyola?

>>10223457
>i think you're mistaking yourself for a council and don't understand how doctrine works.
What? Stop using rhetoric and explain how I'm wrong. The celebration imagery and practices (trees, gifts, etc) common to Christmas is not doctrinal.

>literally the days of obligation.
Just the formalizing of previous views, not innovation.

I have to head to work. I'll be back.

>>10223267
I was born a pagan

>>10223074
God can tell whether you're worshipping pagan gods or not.

>Catholicism
lol

>>10223478
I'm saying that fir wreaths and as a replacement of palms has longer standing doctrinal and historical support than your German/Roman theory which seems to only crop up to explain why English speaking countries got those traditions so late compared to other Churches under the See.
A Catholic would have understood, but then they know the history of the Church and councils.

>Just the formalizing of previous views, not innovation.
Literally doctrine of what makes a Catholic. Not doing that is a de facto excommunication. Enjoy hell.

>>10223393
Paganism in the modern sense is an nearly-useless label that groups together many very different religions, with many different theologies. They share a common goal, however, in reviving religions from ancient cultures. Still, Norse polytheism is completely unrelated to Greek polytheism, both of which differ substantially from something like Slavic Polytheism. For me it was much less a choice than a - "I received multiple, indisputable dream from gods that welcomed me with more love and gentle guidance than I had ever experienced from my previous religion, or my late-teen atheism." Any religious person will tell you how transcendent contact with the Divine is; it is all that and more. Words fail to describe it. If you find that a particular mythology or story calls to you; listen.

>>10223503
>They share a common goal, however, in reviving religions from ancient cultures.
Hinduism is alive and kicking and it's paganism

>>10223510
Perhaps historically, but it's a living religion, and as such many would find it offensive to group it together with the reconstruction/revival focused Western Pagan movement that began in earnest in the 60's/70's.

Think of that what you will.

catholics are super pagans calling upon the literal spirits of the dead to aid them in this life. Lifea bunch of native-american savages. No wonder they liked fucking them so much they became them.

>>10223552
>Lifea bunch of native-american savages
the only mohawk saint is still shunned by them...

>>10223524
If you're looking to define paganism, then why not just go with the actual meaning of the word "pagan"? It means "rural" or "villager". It makes sense - after all Christianity is an urban phenomenon. To become a Christian you must have heard of it from a marketplace or a city - it's impossible to gain knowledge about Christ all on your lonesome.

>>10223574
>it's impossible to gain knowledge about Christ all on your lonesome.
why did they keep building remote monasteries and cells then and still have orders of perpetual silence?

>>10223574
>pagan"? It means "rural" or "villager".
it means you worhship multiple gods, actually. Or a part of a religion that has, multiple gods.

>>10223584
I think the point flew over your head. Paganism is essentially the natural state of man. If a man were to be stranded on an island, he would undoubtedly become a polytheist and a pagan. There's zero chance he would become a Christian, to learn about Christianity he would have to go to a urban market-place.

Pretty that was how Europe was christianized as well. Only after Christianity had seized power in the Roman Empire did it spread to the countryside. The people dwelling over there were the last to become Christians.

>>10223587
Pagan literally means villager. Like I said, this is in contrast to Christianity, which was strictly an urban movement.

>>10223622
you don't know what you're talking about. The Church has always pulled wool over people's eyes because they willingly kill themselves when they don't. Your religion and udnerstanding of the other-wordley is like a child's understanding of a chemistry.

>>10223622
No, everyone understands your point, you're just out of touch with the modern usage of the term Pagan. Unless you're a 4th century Roman, literally no one would use Pagan to mean what you said - the connotations of the word has changed substantially from the ~ original ~ meaning, centuries ago. That is the nature of language. Keep up.

>>10222977
Pax vostrum brothers!

>>10223027
this makes atheistic post modernistic nihilistic neo liberal marxist brain go boom

>>10223641
What do you mean? All I did was state facts. At least be coherent and point out where I went wrong.

>>10223651
"Multiple gods" just doesn't cut it. Doesn't Christianity have the Trinity? My definition of paganism is consistent with how it was used. I'm not saying we should be referring to all villagers as pagans regardless of beliefs. Paganism refers to a whole spectrum of cosmic religions that has its roots in nature and humanity unlike the revealed scriptures of the Abrahamic cults. It does have an intimate connection with rural life, though, and that aspect has to be taken into account while discussing it. That's all I meant.

>>10223747
>All I did was state facts
church dogma of a false religion

>>10223479
Faggot

>>10223711
it's vestrum for 2nd person plural partitive genitive, and you probably wanted to use an imperative instead any way.

>>10223722
>post modernistic
yes, self-reference is really going to put the genre known for self-reference in a spin. wait until they find out they're likely to be in the same exegesis circles, they might realize nietzsche stole his fire and brimstone style, and plato was quoting jesus.

>>10223757
Paganism is a hundred times better than the abomination you Europeans call "Christianity"
Tbh the vast majority of the world's problems wouldn't exist if westerners had the brains to reject Christianity like the Japanese did.
Too bad you guys weren't smart enough lmao

>>10222977
>beginning a christian thread by swearing in the OP

i'm afraid you have disqualified yourself before you've begun

>>10223711
>posting the shop

>>10222992
>pinecone and snow is pagan
LOL

>>10223847
neither exist in the levant, darling, so associating them with christmas is a pagan influence

>>10223855
the bible didn't exist in the levant either, numbnuts, it's why it's in greek for most of the christian parts

>>10223806
you probably mean an anomaly, not an abomination. an abomination is scrubbed from the face of the earth; an anomaly is an aberration offensive to god but where its presence is tolerable.

>>10223855
Lebanon had tons of coniferous trees. It's constantly mentioned in ancient literature how wood was sourced from there. See: Stone pine, Cedrus libani

>>10222977
Wasn't Jesus a Joow? I ask unironically ,pls friends no bully.

>>10224150
Yes, Jesus was a Jew. He was obedient to his lineage/tribe, but also to His Father. The catechism speaks about this.

>>10223486
Indeed, this is nearly as bad as "lol stop worshiping those statues of saints"

anyone recommend books about priests abusing children.

pic related was ok

>>10225240
The Priest, Thomas M. Disch

>>10225240
richard sipe

Protestants are literally worse than pagans.

>>10225269
and catholics are generally the most elitist and judgemental

>>10225287
Enjoy purgatory, faggot.

And now for something completely different.

So I was browsing Roy Schoeman's youtube channel, which doesn't get a huge number of views but has some interesting stuff.

Schoeman, btw, wrote this:
>https://www.amazon.com/Salvation-Jews-Roy-H-Schoeman/dp/089870975X

And this:
>https://www.amazon.com/Honey-Rock-Sixteen-Sweetness-Christ/dp/1586171151

And here is his quite striking conversion story:
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Hz2zfMbO9k

That's by way of background. What caught my interest today was this video:

Jewish Visions and Prophecies Predicting the Second Coming
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSzMUF2AIY4

At around 31 minutes in, Schoeman discusses something called Nathan's vision. It's quite interesting, and, tbqh, spiritually inspiring. I highly recommend that everyone watch this.

If you're interested in further information on the subject, here is a rough translation into English of Nathan's remarks:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5-GOw_tnMG5SndqMVlqQnpTU1U/view

And here is an interviewed conducted in Hebrew with English subtitles (I think the above Google Drive doc derives from this video):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_423307315&feature=iv&src_vid=-H0MDGIXZ0o&v=q_a5v2dbdBk

Btw, the OP is in very bad taste. C'mon folks. Get it together.

That's about all. Peace out.

>>10225296
clearly its you who should be concerned.

>>10223479

Not literally, you weren't. You were born an atheist.

>>10222977

The LARPing is tiresome. There is no such thing as a sincerely religious person who regularly browses 4chan. The posting just represents general (understandable) young male cultural frustration with contemporary leftism. But this never actually rises to the level of taking up an old cult with any sincerity.

>>10224050
Lebanon has a cedar on their flag

>>10225373
>You were born an atheist.
This is false

I don't know if this is true, but it wouldn't surprise me if it happened one day.
The Pope celebrated Luther's reformation recently, accepted him as a witness to the truth, and well Luther's canonization as a Saint wouldn't be out of the question given the trajectory of Vatican 2 and its cucked popes

>>10225373
>There is no such thing as a sincerely religious person who regularly browses 4chan.

You'd be surprised.

>>10225533
The pope would be struck dead or something equivalent before this happened. The Holy Spirit simply would not permit it.

>>10222977
>believing in the Filioque
Kek

>>10225332
>implying it's either/or not all
pls kierkegaard's burning in hell

tfw have to wake up at 6 am for a breakfast at 6:30 before 7 am bible study tomorrow

fuck satan

>>10225667
WELL DONE, ANON!

>>10225373
Wew

>>10225497

No, it isn't, and no amount of theological backspins on your part will impeach the fact.

What is most and really true about the babe? that it is innocent, christ-like, whatever appelation fits your false frame? My true frame, an easier one to assent to, has primacy: /the babe, in its simplicity, does not, and cannot form the complex and very specific set of notions which give rise to: "god. Yep, god. I think god. I believe in a god", etc. Babies don't have that faculty, and so babies are atheists.

Take, for example, the baby Jesus. Upon his birth, the baby Jesus (if we acknowledge that this birth took place, which I am inclined to concede) was born an atheist, having in-that-moment of infancy no concept of god. just being another animal.

>>10225543

he said, posting the LARPiest LARP-tastic colorful picture he could possibly muster.

But keep funposting among manifold pedophiles and thinking you're a good person. It's little different from a mass. The most important point, is that no one in this thread is justified in feeling good about themselves for adhering to a religious tradition. That's what you all ought to understand, though you're sadly fully committed to the role.

>>10225821
God is the first and last thought of all humans.

>>10225825
Some of us are pretty observant, you know. I hope that if I were called to do so I'd give up my life rather than renounce Christ.

>>10225835
I do that to people. You all renounced your God generations ago. Now, you're all just fake-christians. Learning judaism. Like those savages who were taught how to farm.

>>10225825
Not him, but funposting among manifold pedophiles is kind of a step down for some Catholics. Jokes aside, I'm very religious and aware I'm likely to burn in hell if not graced by God. Catholicism doesn't make you believe you're a good person; it makes you aware that works, acts, thoughts and deeds are still only saving by the grace of God, and that even demons know God's power as the sainted do and they tremble. Believing you would get into Heaven as a Catholic is practically arrogance and merely more vain sins piled upon the many others you have no doubt committed. Nobody is good at being a Catholic. That's why saints get yanked out of Heaven on new evidence and we give an advocate to the devil in all matters pertaining to who might be graced. You can pretend it's LARPing, but you too will know His Judgment, as devils do, or remain a wandering star for whom it is reserved the blackness and darkness forever. Don't be sad, I'm rather grateful for knowledge of His Grace and Presence, thanks.

>>10225837
Well, we'll see, won't we? Peace be with you, all the same.

Christcucks you are a disgrace, allow me to elaborate.
There is no God.
All men are mortal. There is no exception including "prophets." Prophets don't exist anyway as nothing is holy.
Water cannot become wine without nuclear fusion somehow happening and making enough carbon in a perfect lattice that took nature literally billions of years to construct. On top of that, it would have to bond with the hydrogen, and not the oxygen. Kek. The fucking story has this guy pulling this act out of his ass.
All those who follow this belief are shameful cuckolds. You love being forced into a scenario of adorable,soft familiar pageantry even if it means lying to yourself and your fellow human being.
Enjoy the eternal sleep not accompanied by any form of salvation or heaven. But know, if I could, I would send you all to hell for the lying and emotional abuse you have done to children alone.

>>10225921
Peace be with you, Anon.

>>10225924
I make my own peace.

>>10225921
>grace is conferred by humans
>specifically me
Stop garbing yourself in the flesh and misery of the innocent to express your disdain. Nobody died to make you God.

for me the separation between Catholic thought and Buddhist thought is a leap rather than a chasm. There are days where I still nurse the suspicion that Christ may have been another transformation body of Shakyamuni. So much of the Gospel seems reflected in the dharma. It is challenging at times to peer into my own assumptions and to see where I have allowed too much cross pollination between my experiences of either faith.

>>10225958
there's an apocryphal telling of jesus' life where he went to india to study religion there to explain the missing years. google jesus in india and you should get a documentary that conforms to your suspicions, though i wouldn't hold out hope for evidence.

>>10222977
Not catholic, but still interested.

I've heard St Thomas D'Aquin is the christian "continuity" to stoic authors, developping the same themes.

Anyone can orient me on this? Good books ?

>>10225921
I presume you like science and logic, right? What if I told you the Catholic Churh was the only reason the Greek texts survived, and without the Church we wouldn’t have had the renaissance. If you value science highly, you should value the church for fostering it.

>>10225921
>how dare you take into consideration anything other than physics

get into metaphysics plebblet

>>10225373
>sincerely religious person

This has always been rare, on or outside of 4chan. The catholic kids I've known were among the raunchiest and most sinful. To them, Christ is just ancient cuck who takes it in the wrists for what THEY do wrong, and will bail THEM out when they're tired of partying and premarital sex.
Save the clergy, the majority of Catholics just use their religion as a sin laundering mechanism. They like the feelies they get when they ago around being dicks all week, only to confess and get saved on Sundays.

The average catholic does horrible things that the average Atheist would refrain from out of a secular sense of duty to society. This is because the Catholic sincerely believes (but does not sincerely CARE) that the entire material universe is just God setting the stage for Christ's grand return. So to them: none of it means anything, so long as they and their family gets saved.

Economics: Boring.
Space Travel: Boring.
Dying for a cause? That's what Christ does, not me!
Biology: A lie.
Workplace: Who cares if my boss made me outsource three projects to slave laborers in Myanmar? Christ is returning, he'll clean it all up. As long as I say I'm sorry to him on Sunday.

Christian morality is corrupt.

It wasn't intended to be that way, but it ended up that way.

It's just a facade. You use the church as a pious front, a way to fit in with society, avoid being seen as a weirdo (like those Atheists! How can they even claim to be moral!) and a mechanism for laundering sins which help you and your family gain power and influence. Once you gain power and influence by being allowed to sin whenever you want (so long as you say Sorry Mister Jesus) you then attribute all that secular power to being supernaturally "blessed" by God. You ignore the entire secular mechanism of the church, and it's two-faced "forgiveness" it hands out even to mob bosses, and pretend that it is an invisible hand (lol) giving you power.

>>10226194
>metaphysics

>The church gives me a social safety net (secular), friends and loved ones (secular), free therapy in the form of confession (secular), a way to forgive myself for the crimes I need to commit every week to gain more worldly power (secular)

And then I attribute all this to Jesus (MEDAFIZZES)

>>10226512
>Save the clergy, the majority of Catholics just use their religion as a sin laundering mechanism.
Total crap, considering they don't use confession at all.

>>10226512
>The average catholic does horrible things that the average Atheist would refrain from out of a secular sense of duty to society. This is because the Catholic sincerely believes (but does not sincerely CARE) that the entire material universe is just God setting the stage for Christ's grand return. So to them: none of it means anything, so long as they and their family gets saved.

I immediately believe all these assertions xDDD

My favorite catholic novel, better than Endo or Greene.

Please help make it a /lit/ meme

Out of the depths have I cried unto thee, O Lord
From the desolation of the earth I beseech thee, O savior
Give ear, O Lord unto my prayer and attend to the voice of my supplications
Do not requite me for my iniquities, and forgive the sin of my ignorance
Holy God, Holy Power, have mercy upon me.
Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
Forgive my pride, O Lord, as I enter into your holy desert, and approach the seat of your Justice, with the words of your psalmist upon my heart
As it is written, Lord, who shall abide in thy tabernacle? who shall dwell in thy holy hill?
And they that know thy name will put their trust in thee as it is written, Thou shalt hide them in the secret of thy presence.
Lord, instill understanding in my heart, and give absolution to one wandering all of his days, so that my sinful spirit shall know thy truths
For one dwelling in this world is blind and shrouded in interminable darkness.
Do not abandon me, O Lord.
I stand before thee, O Lord, and my spirit is like dust in thy hand.
Lord, king of heaven, myriads of stars upon thy palm, hear the cry of a grain of sand.
For the grains of sand are numberless, and the deserts of time are limitless.
How shall I reach thee?
Who shall dare lift up his eyes and gaze upon the radiance of thy name?
Who shall fathom your limitless mystery?
Lord, Lord, my God, hear the cries of my heart, like the prodigal son I prostrate myself before thee.
Bestow wisdom upon me, for the ways of man are dreadful in the dark ignorance of thy words.
But what mortal shall know thy secret, and raise the veil of thy mystery, the day and the hour foretold by thee.
Thou hast said, I shall rain fire upon the earth.
What does it mean?
You foretold the end of the world, but did not say why.
Do we have a choice then?
It is written, "the way of man is not in himself, it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps."
Holy God, Holy Power, have mercy upon us.
My faith is in thee alone.
As it is written, "For the needy shall not always be forgotten: the expectation of the poor shall not perish for ever."
Our Father, have mercy upon me, a sinner.

Lord, it is I, man! Hear my cries, O Lord, I beseech thee!
Let them out of here! Answer their prayer, and reward their faith, for they suffer for the sins of others.
Why shall your chose ones suffer, why shall they be damned?
Let them die. Let them out of here. Let them out of the world.
Everything in this world is damned!
Everything shall perish!
Everything in this world is a lie!
And the Devil is the father of lies!
You had said, the whole world is mired in lies, and there is not a single righteous man!
You said so! Let them out, Lord!

>>10226176
I would say, that doesn't make up for burning thousands if not tens of thousands of secular intellectuals and scientists at the stake. Fuck you.

>>10227280
>waaahh I hate these people bc they follow the same doctrine mean people followed
And scientists made the atom bomb but nobody would even get the idea to blame them for it 70 years later, espescially since most people working on it are already dead.

>>10226194
Metaphysics? Who cares how Thomas Aquinas saw the nature of being, existence or reality when he couldn't have known those things in his age and took the god band aid and put it all over everything like the lazy fatass he was? We live in an era of the greatest understanding possible.

>>10227304
>300 years from now, in a spaceship cafe
Metaphysics? Who cares how Anon saw the nature of being, existence or reality when he couldn't have known those things in his age and took the science band aid and put it all over everything like the lazy fatass he was? We live in an era of the greatest understanding possible.

>>10227289
The doctrine is mean, not the people. The people were just duped

>>10227289
And Michael Moore's priest BLESSED that atom bomb before it roasted a predominantly CHRISTIAN city not loyal to the government. LEARN SOME SHIT.

>>10227307

>>10227061
No Bill, no.

>>10222992
>catholics create christmas to bring in pagans who worship the winter solstice
>now they pretend as if they aren't the ones who brought on this pagan belief
???

>>10225921
Your shit’s all fucked and you sound like a fag

>>10226512
m8, that sounds more like protestants. i can't even excuse this fantasy for reality in the US, because in the US catholics have always been the ones who sign up for the army, navy, police etc with far higher incidence than any other group. The not sacrificing for a cause thing is highly unlikely in a religion that forces you to fast for over a month, and where you don't fast to give up the thing you like most.

You basically just told us about your protestant friends who believe in saying "I've been saved by Jesus Christ" is enough. Catholics believe in doing penance and self flagellating yourself for years over the tiniest indiscretions as well as the larger ones.

That's not to say they don't do depraved things, but your account of them doing depraved things sounds much more like Evangelical Christians doing depraved things than what Catholics get up to. You also sound uptight about premarital sex, rather than guilty about it. There's a difference. Read Brideshead Revisited if you want to flesh out Catholic characters, because right now you're writing about Ted Haggard.

And people called CS Lewis blunt, wew lad not even 5 pages in and this guy is spamming all caps and saying that not seeing the world as the Church sees it is mentally unhealthy. Absolutely no buildup just full stop GENUFLECT HERETIC from the get go.

>>10225648
>tfw study classes are in the afternoon and an 1130 mass is available
Sunday is a comfy day

>>10228889
That guy sound intelligent

>>10227280
holy reddit

>>10228889
Who the fuck is Frank Sheed