/lit/ - Literature

their dweebs

>>10124816
stop laughing

>>10124814
Because their worldview is rooted in conspiracy theories where some seemingly irrelevant figure is in reality the mastermind of a vast conspiracy against "The West" (which in practical terms just means them personally), so once a particular figure is identified as the bogeyman of the hour, it doesn't actually matter what they've done or said.

(Or, in other words, >>10124816
).

>their dweebs
GRAMMER NAZIS BTFO GET REKT

The Frankfurt School (Marcuse, particularly) was extremely influential in American colleges during the formation of the New Left. Their works might not be part of your syllabus, but their ideas still persist in the minds of tenured boomers teaching you, their works and the works of a great deal of humanities intellectuals. Habermas (a Frankfurtian) is currently one of the most cited authors in the social sciences.

>>10124968
Habermas is not leftist, though.

>>10124968
wrong. maybe if you had said all this in the 60s. but liberal postcolonialism criticizes marx in such a convincing but reductive way that there is virtually nothing recognizably marxists going on in the academy any more, even if books about capitalism are frequent

>>10124968
That's not really the narrative that /pol/ is pushing though. I'm talking more about >>10124850
In which the franks are seen as some sort of legion of doom type club who've been slowly and successfully undermining western society via SJWs and "Cultural Marxism".

>>10125003
How do we even broach something so based in fallacy? You can't even use logic with pol cause they'll just shout you down with buzzwords and reaffirm their position. How can something not based in reality be successfully be critiqued?

>>10125017
with bullets

>>10124850
Who are you trying to fool, Rabbi?

The Frankfurt School embodies the jewish, well, culture of critique ... meaning their tribal authoritarianism and the utter gall they display in the belief that they have the right to subversively attack the culture and society of those they live among.

The Frankfurt school jews did this openly and blatantly, and it cuts through to the essence of why jews are a sick and destructive race, that to not see it you have to be about near dumb.

>>10125029
Ironic /pol/ posting is a thousand times more cancerous than actual /pol/ posting.

>>10125035
I've never posted on pol and fail to see the irony you speak of.

>>10125029
I'm a newfag when it comes 4chan. Do posts like this whopper of shit happen very often? Is he trolling or does he have the thought capacity of a vegetable?

>>10124985
His work draws from many different perspectives: marxist/neo-marxist thought; Kantian epistemology and ethics; American pragmatism. His greatest preocupation lies in the sustenance of democracy and democratic values in the public sphere, which in turn makes him both an avid critic of fascism and authoritarian leftist regimes.

>>10124991
>wrong
What's wrong about what I said? The influence of the Frankfurt School on the 60s' climate of social unrest and the New Left is notorious and widely recognized. Do you think those ideas just vanished from our collective consciousness? By the way, my college syllabus contained Adorno and Benjamin. I've also studied a whole lot of Habermas in post-grad.

>>10125003
I think your reasoning is slightly strawman-y. I've watched some of the material /pol/tards frequently refer to when talking about "cultural marxism" and, while some conspiratory undertones were certainly present, there was also argumentation in the same sense I proposed, meanwhile also referring to the role of neo-Marxist thought, particularly in the works of Antonio Gramsci. Are you familiar with his work? The strategy of "passive revolution" and its relation to cultural hegemony in the subversion of institutions, language and education sound congruent enough with the "cultural marxist" narrative /pol/ pushes forward.

>>10125046
I'm not trolling and you should educate yourself before you label what anyone else says a whopper of shit. Do you even know what the Frankfurt School is, little one?

>>10125029
Stop this jewish meme.

>Frankfurt School

Herbert Marcuse - jew
Theodor Adorno - half jew
Max Horkheimer - jew
Walter Benjamin - jew
Erich Fromm - half jew
Jürgen Habermas - jew
Friedrich Pollock - jew
Leo Löwenthal - jew
Siegfried Kracauer - jew
Otto Kirchheimer - jew

>>10125047
If my description is strawman-y, it's only because I'm working off of a generalization of what is itself a strawman conspiracy. And while your bringing up of Gramsci is valid, it doesn't speak to the actual effects that /pol/ claims cultural marxism brought about, namely SJWs and the generalized notion of "degeneracy".
Gramsci's idea of soft or passive revolution have also been pretty vehemently critiqued since then, (see: the inevitable failure of situationism). Furthermore, which I think is at the heart of all of this, capital-L Liberal education and ideology isn't Marxist in any manner, and is obviously opposed to it.

>>10125047
>By the way, my college syllabus contained Adorno and Benjamin. I've also studied a whole lot of Habermas in post-grad.
lmao who the fuck cares

>>10125056
Benjamin, Adorno, and Horkheimer were required reading for lit theory back in the day. I am familiar with the ideas of the other Frank-bros but i'm afraid I haven't read them. If by "educate yourself" you mean "think exactly like I think" I'm just gonna pass you up on that offer you precious son of a bitch.

Just because communists realized that they could just build up political power through the cultural sphere while letting the economy remains in private hands, it doesn't mean they have ceased to be communists.

>>10125094
Well, I'll reiterate since you clearly didn't understand what you were reading back in the day: educate yourself. The Frankfurt School was a collection of jews whose work focused primarily on deconstructing and pathologizing white culture and society. If such a statement takes you this much by surprise, you probably aren't ready for this place, though the naiveté is certainly adorable.

they're dweebs alright

>>10125114
>whose work focused primarily on deconstructing and pathologizing white culture and society
Imagine if you really thought the Frankfurt school set out to do this

>>10125114
i'd only hope that you are posting this to further your own misunderstood convictions, rather than genuinely thinking anyone with prior knowledge of this topic could read what you are saying and find themselves caught in your very same conviction. you fucking retard.

>>10125114
Adorable indeed! That was precisely the word that always comes to my mind whenever I see some booger-eater prattle on about God's chosen people. It's so reminiscent of little children constructing the most horrifying boogeymen and monsters out of their deepest insecurities. Imagine never outgrowing that need to project your own inner weakness/fragility onto a real life boogeyman! Sweetheart, you have nothing but my pity.

>>10125127
Well, that's exactly what they did. They attacked the foundations of white society. This is what jews do in general though, which is why what I'm saying is not controversial or even ambiguous: it was blatant. They pathologized normal behavior and promoted socially destructive concepts, and are a large reason why western society is in the degenerate state it is today. Jews are a very sick people who attack from within through subversion. There are many examples of this, and the Frankfurt School is merely one.

>>10125151
>Capitalism
>The foundations of white society

>>10125145
Not an argument.

>>10125148
You seem quite immature. No one can help you understand the things you currently don't, it's something you have to do yourself.

>>10125159
Not an argument.

>>10125127
they didnt call it "white culture" but thats more or less what they did. the real difference between what right-wing reactionaries accuse the frankfurt school of doing and what the frankfurt school actually did really only differs in language and perspective. frankfurt school wanted to deconstruct and subvert sociological tenets of western capitalism and what they perceived to be the precedents of authoritarianism and fascism.

what the frankfurt school identified as precedents of authoritarianism worthy of subversion, contemporary right-wing reactionaries identify as tenets of western civilization worth defending.

>>10125153
Was referring more to the family and patriarchal norms.

>>10125162
>Family and patriarchal norms
>The foundations of white society
More and more one realizes that you people know fucking nothing about what you supposedly claim to protect. Patriarchal white society, by which assumable you're referring to one that is thoroughly modern, is far more the result of economic conditions and need than any sort of cultural heritage. The worst part, is that the so-called degeneracy you're railing against is what inevitably stems from the progression of capitalism. Maybe you'd know this if you actually took the time to read the frankfurts.

>>10125151
I like seeing the shitposter thrash around in confusion because his ironic and disingenuous claim is indefensible and he can only stick his head in the sand and shout reiterations because he can't stand the indignity of someone pulling the curtain on his performance.

>>10125153
>marriage, heterosexuality, the nuclear family, the nation/race, etc.
>Capitalism

>>10125159
You received lots of frowny faces in school I assume.

>>10125153
>>10125166
why are zizek fanboys so retarded?

>>10125166
Your opinion is idiotic, capitalism has nothing to do with this conversation, and the norms I'm speaking of are inherent and immemorial. Your perspective will continue to be retarded if you keep reading these philosophical spooks who've handed it down to you.

Okay, I’ll bite. How exactly did the Frankfurt school attack the foundations of white society? Specifically?

>>10125153
>when you realize capitalism is destroying the white race

>>10125185
by assaulting the commodification of the lifeworld and the dilution of all culture
oh wait that's either them or Heidegger

>>10125114
What do you think would have happened had Hitler not have rose and forced them out of Germany? Shit, didn't Benjamin kill himself when he was approached by the gestapos?

>>10125185
The Culture of Critique has an entire chapter on it. Pdf is online, get to it if you want to learn about it. It revolves around associating normal male behavior with fascism and the 'the authoritarian personality' jews associate with their oppression at the hands of the goyim, so they set out to deconstruct and pathologize that and the societies those men had built ... and voila, we are now in many ways reaping the fruits of that.

>>10125191
he actually killed himself for two reasons, the first being his physical inability to illegally cross into spain (france was surrendering and he would be deported back to germany and killed) and the german-soviet commercial agreement had come to fruition following the molotov ribbentrop pact. he felt that the soviet union, the marxist suture of his hopes and dreams for all nations had nightmarishly joined with the ultimate fascism hellbent on his complete annihilation.

>>10125191
Someone else would have risen in his place. Read about Weimar and what the jews were doing. The had destroyed Germany and turned Berlin into a giant brothel, not dissimilar to what they've done to LA.

>>10125209
"they had destroyed germany and turned berlin into a giant brothel!"
you realize weimar germany was arguably the artistic zenith of the last one hundred and fifty years right?
oh no wait you don't, you don't know anything about art history, music, architecture, or anything outside your selective world war 2 literature and propaganda pamphlets

you should spend less time on the internet senpai

>>10125229
To advance the opinion you just did is to openly display your own ignorance. Look into to Weimar Germany, really, not selectively, thoroughly, and you will see the cultural sickness the jews had spread within that society, along with the conditions that led to the nationalist backlash against jews. And you might even learn something about the present age you're living through, which is a mere reflection of that period: Weimerica.

>>10125207
Thanks for the answer, anon. You got any source material besides COC that gives a bit of history of the Frankfurts in Germany?

>muh joos
why does every thread devolve into this

>2017
>people still are hung up on some pre-WWII jewish intellectuals trying to disseminate marxist ideals

It's fucking over, buddy boyos. Just bask in the afterglow of neoliberal victory for revolutionary youth is too busy discussing transex bathrooms and progressively stacking their demonstrations to disrupt society. By this point, the only threat to capitalism is capital itself and the markets.

>>10125267
The problem is that capitalism is on the fast track to becoming authoritarian welfare-state-capitalism, which is really just as awful if not worse.
Although honestly my main concern w/r/t capitalism is climate change these days.

>>10124814
Don't they come to similar conclusions. Is Adornos's assault on mass-culture not the left-wing embodiment of reactionary thought?

>>10125266
to make bookfags die
reading is degenerate

>>10125283
Hitting this new meme hard aren't you, Shlomo?

Can someone point me to proof of what areas of "white" society the Frankfurt school "killed"? And how their writing manifests in this decadence?

>>10124816
holy shit your actually right

>mfw /pol/ is what got me into Adorno and Benjamin in the first place
Thanks guys

>>10124991
>there is virtually nothing recognizably marxists going on in the academy any more

HAHAHAHA holy shit have you ever even set foot on a campus you dumb motherfucker? Oh, wait, it isn't "reeeeeeaaaaaallllllll" Marxism, right? I mean, when my mandatory English 1102 student instructor told us how to consider applying a Marxist analysis to MacDonald's "The Princess and the Goblin" that wasn't *REAL* Marxism, it was just a thing that he called Marxism because he was an ignorant bourgeois academic, right?

BTW I had to read about a half-dozen Frankfurt school members across three separate fields, many in mandatory classes.

No influence after the 60s though, tovarisch. Fucking pseuds jfc

>>10125003

The Long March of Institutions is just Capitalist propaganda and also a conspiracy theory

>>10125302
Max Horkheimer said the revolution wouldn't happen with guns, but with time. By infiltrating the educational institution and political offices, and their students are now the boomer professors. It was Marcuse's idea of repressive tolerance as a way to tolerate only leftists ideals for their global egalitarian utopia. They loved Freud and his attack of the father, denying specific parental roles to destroy the family. They pushed for matriarchal theory so as to undermine the judeo-Christian ideals of the west.

>>10125337
And I'm sure everyone in your class became a full-fldeged communist after reading Benjamin and doing an exercise aimed at aiding comprehension.
I read Schmitt in my political theory class and was asked to try to apply his ideas to current contexts, does that suddenly make my professor a Nazi for making sure we're actually understanding the text? Jesus christ m8.

>>10125366
>moving the goalposts this hard

>>10125383
>I read Marxist philosopher in school therefore the school is trying to make me a Marxist
I'm demonstrating the absurdity of that post by using Schmitt, a Nazi philosopher. It's not "moving the goalpost", it's responding to a nonsensical "retort". The fact that people teach Marxist texts doesn't make the academy marxist.

>>10125391
Yeah, a professor asking you to work within a marxist framework isn't at all incompatible with the claim that "there is virtually nothing recognizably marxists going on in the academy any more". And the fact that his syllabus contained several Frankfurt School texts isn't at all anathema to the notion that Frankfurtian though is absent from academy. That other anon is just being absurd right now

>>10125402
The previous anon is talking about professors who are themselves active Marxists, and to whom the academy is financially and intellectually supporting. There was a time period where Marxist professors (most notably, the Frankfurts themselves) were active in attempting to understand contemporary conditions in a Marxist framework and taught classes according to their views. But by and large today's professors are neoliberals and neocons who teach Marxist texts because they're influential in their field, not because the academy and its professors are Marxists or are trying to push a Marxist agenda. In this sense, there is nothing recognizably marxist going on in universities today, especially in America where you don't even read Marx in most economic classes.
This isn't hard to understand.

>>10125358
Stop spouting nonsense, Horkheimer was an extreme anti-communist, he even opposed social democrats from taking part in parliamentary elections.

>>10125417
All communists hate social democrats though

>>10125414
oh that is VERY hard for a reactionary, libertarian, alt-right person to understand. They are basically retarded.

They would much prefer to learn from Joe Rogan and drop-out Lauren Southern than read one. single. book.

Do not over estimate these people.

>>10125402
The only fields where Marx is now relevant are those that do not challenge the status quo, you will never see a single Marxist teaching economics at a uni unless he has other sources of income and is sponsored by people, like in the case of Wolff
Marxism is politically incorrect.

>>10125414
Talking about marxist texts out of their historical influence and asking you to apply marxist theory to analyse a work of literature are two fundamentally different situations. Also, the comparison with Schmitt is clearly a false equivalence: as far as I know, even though he was a Nazi, his theory isn't concerned with the Party's politics or the ideas purpoted by Hitler. An equivalent situation to applying marxist analysis to a text would be asking your students to parse any work of literature by applying the theory of Goebbels and his concern with degenerate art.

>>10125255
Not that guy, but there's Grand Hotel Abyss. Rather than portraying frankfurters as a bunch of scheming jews plotting the spiritual castration of the west, this book falls more in line with leftists perceptions that they were ivory tower theorists that realized that capitalism was entrenched far deeper than their orthodox Marxists counterparts would have imagined, and thus retreated back to pure theorizing and critique and effectively disavowing revolution.

>>10125428
>even though he was a Nazi, his theory isn't concerned with the Party's politics or the ideas purpoted by Hitler.
Not the guy you were replying to but this is bullshit, his ideas were pivotal in the nazi party's context, read On dictatorship.

>>10125440
I saw that book at B&N the other day. Pretty thick book. Would you recommend it?

>>10125428
>Talking about marxist texts out of their historical influence and asking you to apply marxist theory to analyse a work of literature are two fundamentally different situations
They're really not. If you read a theoretical text in a class, you're expected to be able to apply it to a situation to 1) show understanding, 2) raise potential problems with the text, show how it doesn't work. That's how education fucking works.

>as far as I know, even though he was a Nazi, his theory isn't concerned with the Party's politics or the ideas purpoted by Hitler
His ideas are identifiably Fascistic in the proper sense of the word (this is not meant as a smear, I actually really like Schmitt). This point changes nothing about the fundamental idea of the example.

>asking your students to parse any work of literature by applying the theory of Goebbels and his concern with degenerate art.
If you're teaching Goebbels (Evola would be a more likely situation) you ought to do so, because students fucking learn through application.

>>10125427
I live in Brazil and Paulo Freire, a marxist scholar, is an unanimous figure in our pedagogy departments. Do you consider the field that forms teachers unable to challenge the status quo? Also, most of our economists learn marxist theory.

>>10125444
I'm not very familiar with Schmitt, but from what I've heard his theory isn't concerned with purging Jews or the supremacy of the aryan race. Another example: learning Heidegger is also fundamentally different from aplied marxist theory.

>>10125060
Habermas isnt Jewish afaik.
German wiki states his father was a member of the nazi party.

>>10125468
>I live in Brazil and Paulo Freire, a marxist scholar, is an unanimous figure in our pedagogy departments
Sick, but that is not the case in America at all, which is the main target and concern for Cultural Marxism conspiracy theorists.

>I've heard his theory isn't concerned with purging Jews or the supremacy of the aryan race
Nazism isn't simply defined by its racial element dude, c'mon now. And Schmitt is utterly concerned with in-v-out groups, that's what his literal definition of the form of The Political is; he just doesn't limit it to just racial or cultural dimensions.

>learning Heidegger is also fundamentally different from aplied marxist theory.
Learning Heidegger is fundamentally different from learning any political theorist, especially Nazi ones.

>>10125454
It's easy to read. I might recommend it if you don't know much about the lives or the thinking of the frankfurt school, and you don't want to be fed anti-semitic conspiracy theories.

>>10125458
A historical account of the rise of marxist thought and it's influence on society is different from demanding your lit students to apply marxist theory to a text: one carries an inherently political act to it, the other doesn't. Whether or not your students fall in love with communism thanks to your interjection is an entirely different matter.

>If you're teaching Goebbels
Nobody is teaching applied Nazi art theory. That's the point.

>>10125402
I love it when they squirm

>>10125505
>one carries an inherently political act to it, the other doesn't.
So my professor was making a fascistic act when trying to make me apply Schmitt to contemporary politics? Should we never teach anything that doesn't agree with our politics?

>Nobody is teaching applied Nazi art theory
Maybe because Nazi art theory isn't very influential.

>>10125078
This. No one cares what you study in your college, you fucking idiot. The Frankfurt School is not really a thing in America. Only alt-righters seem to think they are.

You know, the one thing that really gets me about the whole Frankfurt conspiracy, is that in /pol/'s eyes Communism is winning. Imagine really thinking that.

>>10125025
Bullets my be a bit too much, but let's make sure to punch fascist scums whenever we can.

>>10125545
Good luck with that

>>10125029
>and the utter gall they display in the belief that they have the right to subversively attack the culture and society of those they live among.


This is just false. Why do /pol/tards pretend there are no Jewish philosophers besides Marx And the Frankfurt School? Have you heard of Lessing? Mendelssohn? Spinoza? None of them were particularly subversive. Also, Jews don't thrive through exploiting Gentiles. Look at Germany 1871-1918, since it's a country you alt right folks are so obsessed with. Jews were second class citizens until 1869 and yet, they managed to rise to the higher ranks of society, on the meantime the Germans rose in renown as well. I don't want to use the word "symbiosis", but still, you get my point. Jews and German culture benefitted each other.


Sure Jews were unproportionately represented among Revolutionaries. Considering how they were marginalized, do you blame them? Would you blame white minorities, like the Boers for subverting south African culture?

>>10125520
Like I said, I'm not very acquainted with Schmitt but from what people have told me he isn't really teaching you how to be a fascist.

>A group of authors sympathetic to Schmitt argue that Schmitt's analysis of liberal constitutionalism during the Weimar period is separable from his support for National Socialism and that it constitutes an insightful and important analysis of the political presuppositions of a well-functioning liberal constitutional system

It's like you guys expect to have your professors openly proselytizing about the need for workers to unite and take the means of production in order to admit the existence of Marxism in academia. When you try and deny that a professor teaching you how to deconstruct literature via marxist lens is an instance of Marx's ideas being present in academia, I can't help but consider it intellectual dishonesty.

>>10125549
Thanks. Good luck to you too.
Why is punching nazis so satisfying? Personally I don't like violence but I can't help but feel great every time I see a nazi getting punched or humiliated.

>>10125587
Low moral character

>>10124814

My philosophy entrance exam book had one (1) page, the last one, on the Dialectic of Enlightenment and it was an essay topic lel. I only remember writing something like "[...]transforms into a machine's rationality" in the middle of the page and then scribbling nonsense around it. Got in of course.

>>10125587
I mean it's a punchline. The people whose entire ideology is bent on their supposed natural superiority are revealed to be the lowest and most pathetic members of society. Of course their public humiliation is satisfying.

>>10125060
le-merchant dot jpeg

>>10125627
Everyone looks pathetic after getting beaten to a pulp. Publicly humiliate someone instead of defeating his ideas with open debate. That's what tyrants do it to their opposition.

But I hope you guys keep doing it. Nothing makes you look worse than violence based on political disagreement.

>>10125652
>why not just debate with someone whose beliefs involve actual genocide
Yeah now that you mention it, we really should just sit down and talk with ISIS in an open, impersonal, and mild fashion.

>>10125671
Words are not the same as actions. You can't debate with ISIS because they are trying to kill you, you can debate with islamic scholars who advocate for basically the same things without indulging in them.

You are not defeating their ideas by hurting them, you are just defeating them personally. And your unwillingness to make your points with logic and evidence tells other people that you are in the wrong and the guy on the floor is in the right and the only way you could win was raw physical force.

Also everyone right of the center gets called a nazi at this point. Your genocide point is a strawman, not even all actual nazis advocate for genocide. Certainly most white nationalists don't advocate for genocide. Virtually no normal nationalist advocates for genocide. People who want harsher immigration policies don't advocate for genocide.

>>10124814
Adorno is standard reading in social sciences.

>>10125690
>Nazis aren't trying to kill you
Didn't they literally kill someone in Charlottesville, and attempted to do so again like two weeks later? These were people yelling nazi slogans.
>Because you don't want to debate a nazi, and attack them instead of debating them, they really must be right.
Really amazing logic. I refuse to debate with Nazis (actual neo nazis that we saw in Charlottesville, and that chucklefuck who got knocked out in Seattle) because they cannot be reasoned with.
>everyone right of center gets called a nazi
I'm not talking about Neocons, I'm talking about /pol/ and actual Neonazis
>Certainly most white nationalists don't advocate genocide
Which is why they constantly reference and adore the Turner Diaries. You're full of shit.

>>10124814
Why do some people constantly pretend that their literal who "intellectuals" are maligned and vilified by obscure, contemporary right-wing conspiracy theories? Is it some bizarre way of pretending that their ideas still have relevance in the 21st century?

>>10125732
The Frankfurts will be as relevant so long as capitalism exists.

>>10125725
>Didn't they literally kill someone in Charlottesville
>one random guy
Didnt some Bernie Sanders supporter go around shooting at some politicians

>>10125725
One guy killed some people with a car. The guy acted alone. This was not an organized political action.

>they cannot be reasoned with
This made me laugh a bit actually. YOU cannot be reasoned with by your own admission. On the other hand I've seen quite a lot of these people willing to debate their weird ideas.

>I'm not talking about neocons
>/pol/ and actual neonazis
Neonazis and the KKK are virtually non-existent at this point. Just bringing them up makes you look silly. Most people who show up to these right wing protests are not neo-nazis or KKK. White nationalism isn't an inherently violent ideology, it's extremely racist and wrong. But it's not advocating for murdering minorities. They want mass deportations and ethnic national states.

Are you a marxist? Do you think your branch of marxism should be conflated with stalinism?

>Turner Diaries
Memes exist

>>10124814
Marcuse's Eros and Civilization is all about promoting sexual degeneracy.

Liberating tolerance is all about political correctness to silence the right, and enabling even the radical left.

Critical theory: enforcing political correcness by "criticizing" every institution and calling them "racist", "sexist", "homophobic", "transphobic", "patriarchal", "bigoted", etc.

The Frankfurt School's goal with the Critical Theory was to attack all deeply held beliefs of the people, and all their institutions and traditions (gender roles, the family unit, nationalism, ethnic loyalties, religion, collective heritage and history, etc.) to completely break down peoples and society from the inside.

Communism: Muh proletariat is being oppressed by capitalists! The relationship between employer and employee is fundamentally oppressive and therefore bad! The solution is to remove the hierarchy!

Critical Gender Theory: Muh women are oppressed by men! The patriarchy is fundamentally oppressive towards women and is bad! The solution is to remove this hierarchy!

Critical Race Theory: Muh minorities are being oppressed by whitey! White societies are fundamentally oppressive against this minority, which is bad! The solution is to remove this hierarchy!

>>10125725
We can appreciate Charlottesville on a poetic level. A flabby, jiggling corpse being carried away on a stretcher is the concise symbolic summation of antifascism.

>>10125690
>People who want harsher immigration policies don't advocate for genocide
they sometimes do around here, desu

>>10125789
don't lie desu

>>10125767
Holy ideology batman, what a shitpost

>tfw when Fromm is literally considered as a reactionary where I am from and is read by the types that would read Evola and Jung

The only frankfurtist that has all his works translated.

>>10125848
Wasn't he the only one basically ostracized from the rest of the Frankfurts for being too humanistic and something of a optimist with respect to cultural degradation?

>>10125029

>>10125690
A hardcore right-winger just killed more than fifty people in vegas. FUCK OFF.

>>10125908
Please tell me you are baiting

>>10125908
Has to be. That's fucking masterbaiting.

>>10124814
>milquetoast center-left neoliberals
adorno was obviously a secret right-winger if you actually read him, he just pretended to be a leftist for flavor

>>10125189
>When you adopt a command economy because you were mad marxists tried to subvert your culture

really makes you think

>>10125779
LOL

>>10125556
>Jews and German culture benefitted each other.
Find a new board to spread these absurd lies. Jews are parasites and the Germans benefitted zero from their presence in their nation. In fact, the presence of jews has caused nothing but harm and destruction to them. Jews attack their host through subversion from within and they congregated in Germany because the German embodies the hard working, high moral character of European man, which the inbred and mentally depraved jew then proceeded to exploit and degrade. The Frankfurt School was a very important part of that and your lies to elevate the jewish role are sickening. Leave this board immediately, you aren't wanted here.

>>10126799
kill yourself

I don't get why /pol/tards blame them when the reason why we have modern SJWs are intersectional feminists

>>10124814
Because capitalism can't take the heat and righties gladly follow their masters orders without understanding. In a capitalist country you cannot say anything even suggestively critical of capitalism or any of its byproducts. The Franks and Pomos are an intellectual scapegoat. It's funny because they studies this very relationships of power structures, hidden knowledge, the culture industry, terrorism, repressed views/opinions, etc that the right-wing conspiracy theorist thinks about all day. They just wouldn't like the conclusions.

>>10126899
>you can't say anything remotely critical of capitalism
HHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
Or what, big guy? The capitalist secret police is going to come and get you? The incidents of persecution of communists in the west have been the outliers, not the norm. Almost all European countries have an established communist party, as does the United States. These things aren't outlawed and haven't been for quite a while. Go back to your containment board you historically illiterate faggot.

>>10124814
Because they are staunchly opposed to Critical Theory and the new left and this school is the origin of both.

Happy to help.

>>10124968
>they are not there but they are there
Spoken like someone who has no idea what they are talking about. It's not hard to see why anyone wouldn't just roll over and buy into what you have is it?

>>10125060
The same could be said of Anglos in the capital finance community but there is no jpeg for them.

>>10125732
>Why do some people constantly pretend that their literal who "intellectuals" are maligned and vilified by obscure, contemporary right-wing conspiracy theories?

Because they are. Why do you pretend that they pretend?

>>10124814
They're widely studied in my university, but granted I'm south american and the commies are pretty popular here. My school is home to some of the world's top experts in Gramsci too.

''Cultural Marxism'' is obviously an Alex Jones tier conspiracy theory, but the critical theorists do have some influence in academia. I like them though, so I'm okay with that.

>>10126892
Because poltards watch alternative news which uses conspiracy theories to explain the world. Conspiracy theories have bad guys who oppress and deceive everybody else. This creates anger and resentment. And they they go around like attack dogs and bark at whatever their master calls enemy.

Alternative news is run by rich people who want to stay rich and figure the best way to do so is to neutralize any opposition before it has a chance to emerge. So they hire people with no principles to lie and create bogeymen where none exist just to keep the majority of people occupied and confused. Meanwhile they focus their efforts on becoming wealthier and gaining more control over government, industry, finance, etc. Seems to work pretty well.

>>10126961
So what is wrong with the claim that their problem lies in Critical Theory and the New Left and both stem from the Frankfurt School?

>>10126957
>''Cultural Marxism'' is obviously an Alex Jones tier conspiracy theory
What makes you think Alex Jones ever says anything that would expose jews? You obviously have no clue what you're talking about, but since you're a brown stuck in some SA shithole, I get it you probably don't have the IQ necessary to understand the jewish question.

>>10126929
Politically, yes you can, you have the right. But not socially, no, as your post shows, it's not the kind of thing people want to hear or are willing to hear. And just how influential in government are the communist parties in western democracies?

Also, telling me to go away shows just how willing to discuss your ideas you are and how well you handle criticism.

>>10124814
But you already know the answer: to homogenize the enemy because any distinctions doesn't make for a good propaganda. Therefore commies and (neo)liberals are the same thing.

I've had to defend Adorno against """""communists"""" (i.e. early 20 year olds who are fucking stupid) who don't like him because they've never read any of his works but think he was racist because he didn't like jazz music. It's absolutely baffling.

>>10127010
kill yourself

>>10126977
I guess you would have to know something about Critical Theory, the New Left, and the Frankfurt School other than whatever they told you about it to answer that. There exists motive, wouldn't a thinking person want to investigate that?

What is wrong with believing something you have never read or encountered outside of one persons/one groups account of it?

>>10126980
>since you're a brown stuck in some SA shithole
German dual citizenship mein freund ;)

>>10127015
Not much if it is taught correctly.

Again, what is wrong with the claim that their problem lies in Critical Theory and the New Left and both stem from the Frankfurt School?

For how bold you spoke before you certainly are skirting around now. Please stop.

>>10126985
I'm perfectly able to handle criticism if you actually presented any. Your argument is illogical; the success of an ideology isn't necessarily a good metric for determining its validity or its inherent value. Just saying "people in the west don't seem to like communism" or "look how unsuccessful communism is, that means there is repression (your word)" isn't evidence of actual social repression existing. Maybe, just maybe, the common population is adverse to communism based on its merit and historical success or lack thereof. So yes, go back to your containment board you absolute faggot, not because of the content of your ideas, but because you are incapable of arguing with any semblance of adherence to logic.

You can tell this board is full of second year undergrads who regurgitate whatever their class teacher tells them. Fucking embarrassment

>>10127119
>>10127119
Yeah, I know right?
This board is full of second year undergrads who regurgitate whatever their class teacher tells them. Fucking embarrassment

>>10127119
Not to mention those who regurgitate idiotic internet memes and claim it's knowledge.

>>10127012
don't like suicides much m8y

Shouldn't /pol/ love the Frankfurts given that their entire work is dedicated toward understanding how pop culture is soul-sucking and backwards?

>>10127335
do you think /pol/ has ever cracked open the Dialectic of Enlightenment?
(the answer is no)

>>10127335
How stupid are you? They paved the way for it.

>>10124850
That can be said about pretty much any political fringe in the US. The right has Soros and the Frankfurt School. The left has the Kochs, the Mercers, and the Chicago School.
What's the deal with people assuming that other people who disagree with them are either unwitting patsys or dastardly shills?

>>10127275
nobody likes you anyway, it's fine. kill yourself

>>10127386
I wouldn't like me if I killed myself. And I like me now, so no cigar for you.

>>10126899
>In a capitalist country you cannot say anything even suggestively critical of capitalism or any of its byproducts.
Of course you can. There's a whole industry dedicated to it.

marcuse influenced student radicals for a brief period in the early 70's (leading to the weather underground, red army faction etc)....but then he pissed off all the students by saying a student vanguard will never start a revolution.

but that was a long time ago.

"cultural marxism" is a meme perpetuated by conspiracy theorists, popularised by breivik's manifesto and subscribed to by brainlets.

>>10127381
Can you explain that? "Degeneracy"-- explosive and ridiculous sexual energy/appeal, situational and slippery morality, the impetus against individualism, commercialization/defilement of the supposedly sacred, existed far before the Frankfurts were around. Their work is aimed at trying to understand how these forces necessarily come about capitalism's mass culture, and used the media of their day as examples of it. How the hell did they pave the way for something that was already there? Please explain yourself

>>10127401
Because it wasn't really there and you're misinterpreting their motives. Western culture at the time, pre-60s generally, was mostly healthy and held up by a patriarchal wasp structure that the jews in the Frankfurt School directly attacked the foundation of. Once those barriers were broken down and jews on the backs of FS ideas increased their cultural sway, then the west really began the dark slide into all out degeneracy. Jews were planting those seeds before through vessels like literature, but it was mostly kept in check.

>>10127454
>Western culture at the time, pre-60s generally, was mostly healthy and held up by a patriarchal wasp structure that the jews in the Frankfurt School directly attacked the foundation of.
Holy shit, you have no grasp of pre-War culture whatsoever. There were huge cries in the '20s regarding "the breakdown of traditional values" with the increasing availability of automobiles. Even popular filmmaking was considered degenerate by some (see: Pandora's Box) and many were lamenting and violently reacting against industrial industry (see: The Leo Frank case). Even pre-1900s, where the hell do you think the Transcendentalists were reacting against? They explicitly believed man's natural relation to nature and authentic culture were being undermined by emerging industrial cities. Fucking even Oliver Twist is about how modern culture generates "degenerate" conditions; late '20s films like The Crowd, Sunrise, and Lonesome are all about the demoralizing and isolating nature of modern culture; how they're necessarily soul-destroying and contradictory.

Even if you want to play the Regan '50s idealization game, mass culture was already bemarked by "degenerate" commodification of everything. That's the age of mothers over-dosing on over-the-counter anti-depressants and Death of a Salesman type drugery that it laid the basis for films like The Last Picture Show.

You know absolutely nothing, you've constructed an entirely illusory image of a previous "greater" era that never existed, and clearly haven't even read any of these people you claim caused the downfall of mainstream society.

Anyone?

>>10126977

>>10127510
good post anon

>>10125725
>Didn't they literally kill someone in Charlottesville,
That was self-defense.

Just to clarify, the "Frankfurt School" (which wasn't an actual school in Germany but an association of academics), moved to NY to escape the NAZIs (whose ideology and tactics they would adopt). When they came to America, they founded The New School of Social Research (an actual school), now called The New School.

Search Youtube for "cultural Marxism" and "critical theory."

There is more than enough evidence out there that the attack on not just American culture but on the culture of Western Cvilization (which is to say, an attack on Christian whites) was not a natural evolution but a subversive war that totalitarians have been waging against us for a century.

The goal has always been the same: the destruction of the middle class, of the freedom (civil liberty as well as freedom of thought) that allows people to rise up from the lower classes to the middle class.

With this gone, the totalitarians would get what they want: a two-tiered "social" structure consisting of the ruling overlords and the serfs.

This helps to explain why so many Capitalist barons and captains of industry supported and still support this "Marxist" revolution. They despise that our traditional culture not only allows but encourages the "serfs" to enjoy a standard of living that is not too far off from the elites and they hate the "serfs" do not feel the power and do not live in fear of the Iron Fist of the ruling elite.

>>10127546
>clarify

>>10127510
No fucking shit, man. But there's no comparison to today. I said the seeds had been getting planted in western culture by jews prior to the 60s through things like literature, so your post is comprised mainly of assumptions about points I wasn't even making or arguing against.

I often wonder if the /pol/ residents here believe in what they post or are just using le redpills memes without taking the koolaid themselves

>>10127559
graspingatstraws.jpg

>>10127563
they believe the memes

>>10127559
So basically you want to return to pre-enlightenment Europe?

Because I'm fucking down for it.

>>10127559
What nonsense. Please do yourself a favor and actually read some Adorno and Benjamin. The so called degeneration of culture and morality are necessary products of capitalism and industrialization; nearly their entire corpus is dedicated to proving that. You see incredibly similar statements from Heidegger (see: The Question Concerning Technology and The Age of the World Picture) even though he's clearly not a Marxist or Jewish.
The Franks were trying to understand why a communist revolution didn't take place in Germany when, by all means, the conditions were set for one. Their basic realization is that Marx underestimated how entrenched capitalism is in modern culture. Please read books instead of /pol/ you brainlet.
Want some good history books on the commodification of American culture? Read "Financing The American Dream" and "Silent film and the triumph of the American Myth".

>>10127591
What's funny is that Adorno himself wanted something similar. He blames the whole problem of capitalism and modern culture on the mythology of Enlightenment thinkers. Heidegger is even more radical than that.

>>10125029
>their tribal authoritarianism
The absolute irony.

>>10127601
>The so called degeneration of culture and morality are necessary products of capitalism and industrialization;

No, they are not and that's an absurd declaration. Everything stems from the actions of humans. If culture is presided over by men with a sense of stewardship toward those below them it will not inevitably degenerate. Western culture has degenerated because there is a tribe of aliens presiding over it and using it to weaken the population because those people are jews with no connection and an intense hostility toward non-jews.

The phantom capitalist machine argument has to fucking end. You have to be a complete moron to assert that capitalism ITSELF is the issue, and not the people actually running shit. It's pure, illogical idiocy.

how do into the Frankfurt school?

I have a little marx and freud, is that enough?

>>10127591
Enlightenment ideals like equality have to go, but the only thing that really matters is creating new societies without jews. These problems stem almost entirely from their presence in the west and have increased exponentially as they have been allowed to assume positions of leadership in place of the wasp elite.

>>10127623
So you want to go back to pre-enlightenment Europe yes or no?

>>10127635
>>10127632
Oh ok
What's wrong with equality?

>>10127635
No, and I don't even know what that means, but I tried to answer here: >>10127632

>>10127638
It doesn't exist. The notion of "equality" is prole-feed to keep plebs bickering over something that is unquantifiable and will never come about. But nor should it exist. It is a manifestation of a noble idea, representative of European man's spirit and idealistic desire to tame nature, but it's ultimately detrimental to society.

>>10127623
>calls me out for blaming everything on capitalism
>blames everything on the jews instead
Kek. You know they criticize Marx for the same reason?
The Public-culture relation is destroyed in The Dialectic of Enlightenment. The mass controls nothing in culture. The mass itself is invented for and is an essential part of the Culture Industry as a whole. Tastes and morals are cultivated for the industry, of which the public has no control. Please read it.
Btw

>>10127626
Yeah that's fine. The only Marx you really need to start is Commodity Fetishism. Just start with Benjamin's Art in the age of mechanical reproducibility, and then pick up an Adorno reader, Verso books has the most popular one. Iirc they might actually just sell a Frankfurt Reader.

>>10127645
>confusing legal equality for natural equality
There's your first mistake.

>>10127645
But equality of opportunity and equality before the law exist in many western European societies. They don't work perfectly but I don't see how they're detrimental to society.

>>10127659
>Yeah that's fine. The only Marx you really need to start is Commodity Fetishism. Just start with Benjamin's Art in the age of mechanical reproducibility, and then pick up an Adorno reader, Verso books has the most popular one. Iirc they might actually just sell a Frankfurt Reader.
cheers

>>10127668
No problem, enjoy. The Frankfurts are pretty fun to read imo. They can be some sardonic bastards. It also makes you realize that DeBord didn't really do anything new with Society of the Spectacle; he just sorta made their thought into a manifesto.

>>10127664
The principle, as it was initially intended before groups like jews seized it and distorted it, was for equality of white men under the law. I take no issue with that. The problem has little to do with that anymore and is used as an abstract blanket ideal to turn everyone who is not a white man into a victim group jews wield against white men.

>>10127680
*The problem is that it has...

>>10127659
>The Public-culture relation is destroyed in The Dialectic of Enlightenment. The mass controls nothing in culture. The mass itself is invented for and is an essential part of the Culture Industry as a whole. Tastes and morals are cultivated for the industry, of which the public has no control. Please read it.
How do we fix this? I'm someone who generally supports liberal/neoliberal policies and this is so true.

>>10127680
So you basically you're a Nazi?

>>10127680
>>10127687
Btw interesting exchange. It confirmed my theory about the modern revival of nazism.

>>10127687
>>10127698
Not sees haven't existed in over 70 years. Using fake jewish terms may be effective on the sub-95 IQ individuals around here but it's generally unimpressive and ineffective. Step it up.

>>10127684
The situationists and Gramsci proposed some sort of long term passive revolution via subversion and infiltration, but that's been pretty much proven to not work. Some contemporary Marxists believe in accelerating capitalism so it can't keep up with itself, leading to its collapse. Others still think that violent revolution is the only way. An alarming amount of people think it's just hopeless, and that capitalism will lead to the end of mankind; this is not an absurd belief.

I still think a peaceful revolution is possible (RIP Allende), but alternative Marxist media absolutely must exist first. The conversation must be elevated.

>>10125872
Yes to the first and no the second. He didn't think cultural degradation was ever going to be a good thing.
Later in life he abandoned most of his feminist optimism and was always too much of a crypto religiousfag to be a true materialist.

Escape from Freedom is a book you literally can't label as left-wing immediately.

>>10127510
This. Americans are literal a-historical retards that think the nuclear family is a non-degenerate phenomenon. If your values aren't mostly from before 1815, then you just as degenerate as the average leftists, Adorno a great reader and admirer of De Maistre knew this.

>>10127731
Wouldn't the spontaneous birth of several "high" cultural phenomenons (jazz, krautrock, art rock, nouvelle vague etc) prove Adorno wrong thought?

>>10127719
Sorry that I didn't use the correct term for your particular brand of fascism

Did our Nazi friend get banned or what

>>10127659
>The Public-culture relation is destroyed in The Dialectic of Enlightenment. The mass controls nothing in culture. The mass itself is invented for and is an essential part of the Culture Industry as a whole. Tastes and morals are cultivated for the industry, of which the public has no control.

I don't understand this. Surely the "Culture Industry" works in tandem with the people? They follow the trends of people, they do not create the trends. The Culture Industry is slave to wider contextual phenomena. Tastes and morals were around before the "Culture Industry"...It sounds to me like this "Culture Industry" is just another bogeyman

>>10127902
>"Interested parties explain the culture industry in technological terms. It is alleged that because millions participate in it, certain reproduction processes are necessary that inevitably require identical needs in innumerable places to be satisfied with identical goods. Furthermore, it is claimed that standards were based in the first place on consimers' needs, and for that eason were accepted with so little resistance. The result is the circle of manipulation and retroactive need in which the unity of the system grows even stronger. No mention is made of the fact that the basis on which technology acquires power over society is the power of those whose economic hold over society is greatest. A technological rationale is the rationale of domination itself. It is the coercive nature of society alienated from itself."
Just read the paper; it's a lot more nuanced than how I've quickly tried to explain. The culture industry is the result of the power of technology over society as propagated by capitalist elites. Adorno & Horkheimer goes on to characterize the sameness of style in Mass Culture; which honestly has not changed in any significant form since their description.
>They follow the trends of people, they do not create the trends
Not at all; the trends are pre-determined by mainstream tastes, which themselves have been determined by mass culture. "New Trends" are really nothing more than superficial variations of an pre-established theme. The Fidget Spinner is no different than the Rubix Cube, which was no different than the pinwheel. This also explains the constant regurgitation of previous media via reboots, spirtual sequels, and so on.

>>10127814
Eh it's something that people have been arguing over for a while. Some think (as you do) that Adorno would have changed his stance had he seen what came out of non-classical music, but he didn't change his opinion on jazz despite some of the lauded jazz musicians who "elevated" it being alive and operating contemporaneously with him.

I suspect that he wouldn't have budged too much: in his "Philosophy of Modern Music" where he looks at Schoenberg and Stravinsky as the two possible routes which art music can take for the future, he sees Stravinsky as reactionary in trying to reconcile the avant-garde with pre-existing and primitive state (i.e. hearkening back to the same sort of idealised pre-history seen in a lot of fascist thought) whereas it is Schoenberg who breaks with the past and creates music which adheres to the artist's subjectivity in its creation as opposed to some totalitarian objectivity. I think Adorno may have seen something related in the genres you mention as far as attempts to reconcile the avant-garde with the culture industry but that's just me conjecturing.

>>10127979
Interesting, thanks.

>>10127945
The "culture industry" doesn't exist in a bubble. It is an absolutely neurotic field obsessed with the context that surrounds their commodity. If you engage in a simple exercise of inductive reasoning, you'll see that commodities were a lot less (for lack of a better term) "degenerate" in the twenties than they were in the fifties, and the commodities of the fifities were much less "degenerate" than they were in the sixties, and so on. This seems to show almost instantly that the culture industry is informed by the political atmosphere of the society.

If you ask me, perhaps the biggest blight to the modern world is democracy, which allows for people, who have no interest in upholding the relationship between state and civil society, to voice their opinion - and not only that, but to wield immense power with their damaging ideas. It is the fault of democracy, which allows for harmful ideas to spread. It is a weakness of capitalism (not "the" weakness of capitalism), which is ambivalent to what ideas are made into commodities. If the state was protected by people who had the interests of the nation at heart, then capitalism would flourish without it falling into degeneracy. I guess what I'm calling for is better regulation of the markets

Wubawubadubdub

>>10125171
>the nuclear family, the nation/race
These are for sure tied to capitalism. Most marxists would argue that marriage too is a construct of civilization, but this relies on interpreting civilization as patriarchal (rather than matriarchal like it really is) and willfully ignoring the presence of marriage-like structures in ANE or PIE culture.

>>10127382
What are you on about? No one on the far left spends any time talking about any of the things you mentioned.

>>10127814
>"high" cultural phenomenons
>jazz, krautrock, art rock, nouvelle vague etc
>>>/mu/

http://amzn.com/0451466640

>>10128078
The left loves super-duper conspiracy figures about some supposed right-wing conspiracy.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/08/15/books/review/democracy-in-chains-nancy-maclean.html

Must I post /the video/?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrt6msZmU7Y

>>10126899
>In a capitalist country you cannot say anything even suggestively critical of capitalism
nigga where the fuck do you live?

>>10128078
Obviously, you don't listen to the Pacifica Network. It's half of what Amy Goodman ever talks about. Don't even get me start on Guns N Butter

>>10128174
>Live in the west
>Attack western values
>"WTF WHY DIDN'T THEY ATTACK OTHER CULTURE?"

>>10128285
No numbnuts it's implied that Western culture is the unique originator of these supposed ills

>/leftypol/ tells me cultural marxism is a conspiracy theory
>look up a few books from the frankfurt school in my college's library
>pick 'a critique of pure tolerance'
>it's almost literally a treatise on how you should use political correctness to supress any right wing discourse or criticism of socialism, meanwhile tolerating subversion and revolutionary talk
hmm

>>10128317
That's a bad reading of the text, nowhere did they imply that.

>>10128324
>literally

>>10128324
They would just say it isn't real Marxism. Insofar as the New Left to some degree rejects orthodox Marxist class struggle in favor of building revolutionary coalitions of minorities, they're right, but there are practically no orthodox Marxists any more.

>>10128332
"They"?
All the collective teachers, community organizers, and journalists in the country?
Guess again.

>>10128174
Bill Whittle is retarded. Puritans had already been practicing proto-political correctness before Marx was even born. The Communist and Puritan tendencies do tend to feed off one another, though.

>>10128339
Were talking about the Frankfurt school, not contemporary academia

>>10128336
do you have anything to say?

>>10128337
I think the problem lies in calling this thing "cultural marxism". The term sound like a misnomer to most -- that is, marxism that isn't economicist -- even though there are neo-marxists arguing for a 'soft revolution' focusing on subverting cultural institutions. Does /leftypol/ even consider people like Gramsci a tr00 marxist though? I think I'll ask them

>>10128349
And what do you think the Frankfurt School was and is a part of?

>>10128358
every brand of Communism is not true Communism once it doesn't work out

>>10128370
Contemporary academia and the Frankfurt school arguably separate at postmodernism

>>10128347
Marxists having an indirect semi-precursor means fuck all, and would even if I didn't recognize the term "proto-political correctness" as being pulled out of your ass.

>>10128101
>>>plebbit

>>10127945
eh I think that rationale applies only to a fordist setting. the contemporary chain of production works in an almost diametrically opposed direction: providing an ever-expanding variety of products for every individual and every niche group. I think their critique is fatally outdated

>>10125468
>I live in Brazil
I knew it, fucking monkeys shitting up this site I swear

>>10125544
Not at all they believe post-modernism is winning. Which it is, how do you explain the sudden focus on things like diversity in comic books? Most people pushing for that have a degree in one of three fields : sociology, gender studies or racial studies. All of them at least some post-modernist ideas. Racial studies goes as far as saying white people are oppressing POC. I've seen the videos taken in their classrooms. They are going to start a race war in time I believe. Much like the Nazi's believed they were being oppressed by the Jews there are disastrous consequences for teaching people something like this.

>>10127546
Go back to /pol/ you fucking retard

>>10127546
>Search Youtube for "cultural Marxism" and "critical theory."
Is this a parody of /pol/'s intellectual prowess?

>>10128500
>>10128451
>the state of /leftypol/

>right wing
>left wing

Honestly, can we just use the terms "ethnonationalist" and "multicultural globalist" instead? We all know that's what these terms really mean, in 2017

>>10128539
no

we ust resist the limited nature of american political discourse.

look what its done to american politics......complete shit-fest.

>>10125266
Read Culture of Critique by Kevin McDonald.

>>10128539
That's what they mean from the right-wing perspective. From the left-wing perspective they mean "capitalist" and "communist", ethnonationalists merely being multicultural globalists' foot soldiers against the communists.

>>10127814
None of that is "high" on anything but LSD and other psychedelics, and dope. It's like a cheap black velvet of the real deal.

Imagine a popular piece of iconography: for the purpose of this example, Jesus Christ.

Popular music, even the so-called 'highest', is like a black velvet or cheap digital painting of Jesus flexing his muscles in front of an American flag and a bald eagle eating Satan's eyeballs.
'art' music is, frankly, any other sort of representation. So many assume popular music is diverse, when that is not the case at all: popular music is terribly simple and terribly narrow. That comically awful repainting of that portrait of Christ is 'art' music. The thousands of ugly gothic Christ Child carvings and paintings are 'art' music. The various Pantocrators are 'art' music.

>>10128030
>you'll see that commodities were a lot less (for lack of a better term) "degenerate" in the twenties than they were in the fifties
Again, you have no idea what you're talking about. Sex and drugs are all over commodities and entertainment in the '20s. Why do you think Prohibition was a thing at all?

>If you ask me, perhaps the biggest blight to the modern world is democracy, which allows for people, who have no interest in upholding the relationship between state and civil society, to voice their opinion
Part of the whole ideology of Western Capitalism is that it inevitably brings democracy. Expanded individual commercial power leads to expanded individual political power; the gender dynamics of the early industrial era change dramatically due to capitalism: women are able to, and in many cases must, start working in industrial factories. The whole image of the Flapper is that of the modern woman with new economic powers, which is of course further enhanced by the 19th amendment.
>I guess what I'm calling for is better regulation of the markets
Which of course undermines the entire idea of capitalism in the first place. The invisible hand and so on.

>>10128451
>>10128500

Not an argument, you weak ass pussy faggots.

>>10128755
There's no point in arguing about jokes, one can only laugh.

>>10128612
What a fucking retarded post lol

>>10128779
>*listens to le miles smily le miley*
>UR FUKIN DUM
You need to go back

>>10128612
this is correct
t. /mu/tant

>>10124814
>Why are far right reactionaries obsessed with smearing a bunch of theorists who've had zero influence on the public at large and are blatantly absent from the majority of college syllabi?

Why the fuck do you care?

What is it with this Frankfurt School Defense Team clique that posts all the time on /lit/?

>>10125266
Who the fuck do you think is defending the Frankfurt School? Who else remotely gives a shit?

>>10128788
Nice projection, moron

>>10128655
bumping with some more pre-war "degeneracy"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v06QbB9ihzU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIfcKy-VcXo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObEvjtiZMo4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEleM86fPtE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9qIcBk4pMI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbtCBr2-Cpc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXiIx4OqcXw

Plus a cool little documentary about homosexuality in early 20th century Germany:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdMNGIgS6Bk

The biggest problem with degeneracy is that, once you actually start studying history, you pretty quickly realize it's a modern construction with no actual material basis. (I mean, Donatello's David was intended as fucking child porn). Pornography as an industry-- in all of its eccentric and taboo flavors (incest, bestiality, homosexuality, interracial, you name it) had been around since the invention of the camera, and even before then had been present in form of the anonymous erotic novel (Fanny Hill, Marquis De Sade, The Lustful Turk, Dangerous Liaisons, etc.) and even before then by erotic poets (going all the way back to the romans). Not to mention that many of the nude paintings that we praise were, quite literally, meant for jerking off to.

When the Frankfurts decry their marxist analogue to "degeneracy", they're really just attacking modern advertising and mass media as a whole; it forces the individual into a box, tricks and abuses them at every corner, peddles ideology and false consciousness, and deprives them of any sort of liberty that Capitalism had promised in the first place.

>>10128805
Marxists? Anyone half interested in understanding western media? Academics?

>>10128805
>defending the Frankfurt School
The way I see it cultural dwarfs that is /pol/ are defending their retardation from people who actually read works from the Frankfurt School.
Or maybe Jews really are everywhere. There's probably a Jew or two in everybody's head. What else could make people read those works? As the saying goes: critique is a Jewish trick.

>>10128812
I'm not the one listening to le miles contemplates lyfe while looking outside window in attic while it rains in full suit and fedora while sipping bourbon and listening to le miles contemplates lyfe

>>10128866
>they're really just attacking modern advertising and mass media as a whole; it forces the individual into a box, tricks and abuses them at every corner, peddles ideology and false consciousness, and deprives them of any sort of liberty that Capitalism had promised in the first place.
>DUDE MASS MEDIA IS LIKE EVIL LMAO

Every way you look at it, we are living in one of the most liberated, fair societies human kind has ever known. But I guess the fact Fox News says some shit and advertisers are trying to sell you some shit means we are all drones with no individuality or choice. Sure, let's trust these intellectuals whose idea of capitalism is more akin to a Chaplin parody of fordist assembly lines than anything and let's pretend it applies to our landscape of infinitelly segmented, scoped production of goods, democratized access to the vast majority of humanity's cultural output and neverending subcultural expression. We are all still eating Campbell's and passively receiving Red Scare propaganda.

>>10127335
you gotta put it in a red pill meme replete with black/white photos, simple, uncompounded tidbits, bullshit graphs, and white text overlaid on a black background with inflammatory quotes.

>>10128932
>Every way you look at it, we are living in one of the most liberated, fair societies human kind has ever known
Sweet ideology, mate.

>>10128932
>Every way you look at it, we are living in one of the most liberated, fair societies human kind has ever known. But I guess the fact Fox News says some shit and advertisers are trying to sell you some shit means we are all drones with no individuality or choice.
They're really saying something a lot more nuanced than that. They're basically claiming that, through Mass Culture and Commodity Fetishism, people can't relate to their surroundings or each other except by viewing them as functional objects, as products, to be used, not as actual human beings. False Consciousness isn't limited to the functioning of Capitalism (Capitalists abusing proles, etc.), it's much more of a claim about how modern humans cannot have an authentic relationship to existence when mass culture's fundamental goal is to, essentially, sell you stuff and keep you in a mindset where all you can think about is acquiring stuff. Their basic argument is that mass culture is literally dehumanizing.

>Sure, let's trust these intellectuals whose idea of capitalism is more akin to a Chaplin parody of fordist assembly lines than anything
That's so reductive. Mass Culture can simply be defined as popular culture necessarily propegated by capitalist societies. The fact that we've evolved pass Fordist production doesn't undermine their basic critiques. Even so-called subcultures can be defined as just appropriated and culturally sanctioned variations of pop media.

>>10128887
>projecting this much
No, you're the one listening to le great artists of le past while you're euphoric because you're enlightened by your own intellect

>>10128970
>of le past
There is art music being made this year you stupid asspicurian.

I listen to popular music by the way, lots of house. I just don't claim it has 'artistic' value in-itself.

>>10128969
>Mass Culture can simply be defined as popular culture necessarily propegated by capitalist societies. The fact that we've evolved pass Fordist production doesn't undermine their basic critiques. Even so-called subcultures can be defined as just appropriated and culturally sanctioned variations of pop media.
No, no no! You dullard. There's no sanctioning. If you want to write futa porn anti-Christian homoerotic fanfic and publish, you're free to do so without fear of persecution by the State. If you want to produce a harsh noise wall album full of hidden death threats to Trump you're free to do so and immediately share it to a community of peers worldwide. There are both high and low culture being produced right now and you have access to most of it for free.

The world the Dialectic of Enlightenment is referring to is fucking dead and it has been for a long time. Their idea of mass culture is outdated and the only way to apply it to our world is by the way of very heavy obsfucation and reductionism. Stop reading old intellectuals and open a few books on macroeconomics. Better yet, take a look at the world around you. The industrial complex now caters to the INDIVIDUAL rather than the masses. Popular culture isn't hegemonic, it's just the one thing with the largest sums of money poured into it and highest degree of mass appeal. Nobody is forcing you to listen to Taylor Swift: you do have a choice.

>>10128992
>macroeconomics
>'look at the world around you'
So this is the power of lolbergtardian rhetoric...

>>10128978
Ah, the typical everything-that-isn't-art-music-has-no-value-because-i-said-so mouthbreathing moron. I should have realized it, with your sixth grade tier pseudo deep analogies and everything.

>>10129007
I didn't say 'value', I said 'artistic' value. Please learn English before you come to /lit/, ESL-kun.

I didn't realize that sixth graders understood iconography. Chomo.

>>10128992
>Being able to make things independently and share them independently disproves Mass Culture!
No, you dolt, Mass Culture is a separate thing from independent creation. They never deny this. Mass Culture is connected to Mass Industry is connected to the Mass Public. We're talking about popular media that gets popular or is derived from the popular. Mass Culture is not only defined by the processes that create it, but also its receptive base, and it's style of sameness. For fuck sakes you're not even trying to engage with their ideas. Conventional popular norms-- the things that get popular-- do not do so because people simply don't like it, they're rather trained to not like it and, until very, very recently, have had little to no access to it.

>Popular culture isn't hegemonic, it's just the one thing with the largest sums of money poured into it and highest degree of mass appeal
>The culture with the highest amount of influence and control over social and political life isn't hegemonic dude! Just read BASIC ECONOMICS

>>10129017
*the things that don't get popular

>>10129013
>I didn't say 'value', I said 'artistic' value.
You know that's what I meant you braindead cumgazzler.
>I didn't realize that sixth graders understood iconography.
No, they don't, that was my point. Apparently you also have the reading comprehension of sixth grader.
>Chomo
kek

>>10129036
>butthurt chomo

>>10129017
You don't seem to understand the meaning of "hegemony". Independent creators had significantly lesser avenues to share their ideas with people way back when. Nancarrow only got any degree of appreciation several decades after his artistic breakthrough. Modernism got to Latin America two decades too late. Like I said, our cultural production now has democratic acess and caters to several niches rather than a homogeneized whole. People refuse to listen to Schoenberg, yes, but not because big daddy capitalism tells them not to do it: it's just too insular and unappealing to most. However, if you do happen to enjoy his compositions, you could readily find a group of peers who share this appreciation. Popular taste emerges out of the dialectics between the public and content creators: it's not a one way street.

>>10129040
>t. self-important faggot who drinks sperm cocktails while he listens to recordings of helicopters

>>10129065
I'm not a cum guzzler and fondly dislike Stockhausen.
I don't understand why you would think somebody who admitted to liking house (post-african rhythms) would listen to Stockhausen's meme composition. I mean, I've heard it in its entirety.

>>10125587
Because there's nothing wrong about punching a piece of human trash. Nazis literally don't deserve to be treated as people if they don't want to treat the rest as such.

>>10129752
gay

>>10129795
Extremely.

>>10129752

Wow blacks sure are tough when there's a whole gang of them

>>10127510
>open thread to see the (you)'s from yesterday
>/pol/tard got btfo'd so hard he deleted his posts
everytime

>>10129820
Nah. That was probably just you false-flagging.

>>10128969
Scruton advocates free markets so long as those areas in which the dead and the yet unborn have an interest i.e. sexual morality, and city planning. I see this as a much better remedy than any so-called revolution or uprising.

It's pretty easy to see which areas in the market require regulation, and which are pretty much harmless.

What is it with you commies and your thirst for revolution?

>>10125060
Oh my, cool coincidence!

>>10127342
I've cracked Culture Industry and Problems of Moral Philosophy. Adorno is easily the most rant based, least focused philosopher I have ever read and the only one im my experience whose writings I can describe as completely free of anything worth my time. It's very strange, considering his status. I don't think I'll ever have the nerves to try him again.

>>10129842
BUT DUDE MASS MEDIA CONSUMERISM INDOCTRINATION LMAO

>>10128436
>Which it is, how do you explain the sudden focus on things like diversity in comic books?
The possibility for profit. Huge corporations these days love trying to court new customers by appearing progressive, talking about their diversity, putting up rainbow flag logos after the Obergfell ruling, etc. But these CEOs, stakeholders, boardroom insiders don't really care that deeply about any of the ideological stances they claim to take, what they do care about is PR and money.

>>10129857
Adorno would be so much more interesting if someone else wrote for him. I'm used to scholastic philosophy and this is the opposite of its method.

>>10129842
Funny, cause the only thing I ever attempted from him was Negative Dialectics, and found it completely incomprehensible. Hegel read easier. What the fuck, man? Was this the wrong place to start? Can somebody give a good intro to him? Some articles or some shit?

>>10129896
Usually people go for Culture Industry or Dialectic of Enlightenment. It's not that he's complex, it's that he can't write. I don't think he's worth of your time, I'm hopping on the Gramsci train soon in hope of something a lot more interesting.

>>10125346
>JohnMcCainDeservesIt

>>10129752
LMAO at that nazi bitch.

>>10125767

Kys

>>10129873

The ideas came from somewhere. Capitalism as explanans is some retard-tier explanation that pretty much ignores the entire way culture evolves since before Capital existed (the combination of human psychology and population dynamics). This is the whole problem with /leftypol/ explanations from smug nihilist undergrads who can't wait till the west burns to the ground. They pretty much ignore how ideas spread, how the media and education intensify these effects, and ignore any sort of explanation when someone brings these up, see these two posts response: >>10125078 >>10125537

This is the height of /lit/ leftists. They babble on about /pol retards, but when confronted they resort back to "gotta punch someone that disagrees with me" or "lmao who cares, did you see that dril tweet?"

>>10128584

You are incorrect. If a white man was communist but also racist, he would be considered right wing todaty.

>>10128144
>new york times
>far left
oy vey

>>10130067
No, that's the view from the centre-wing perspective.

>>10129873
I.e. the "Culture Industry" follows trends, it doesn't set them. Case and point

>>10129828
This is a quote from Scruton which describes what I mean:

"The free market is a necessary part of any stable community, and the arguments for maintaining it as the core of economic life were unanswerably set out by Ludwig von Mises. [Friedrich] Hayek developed the arguments further, in order to offer a general defence of ‘spontaneous order’, as the means to produce and maintain socially necessary knowledge. As Hayek points out, there are many varieties of spontaneous order that exemplify the epistemic virtues that he values: the common law is one of them, so too is ordinary morality.

The problem for conservatism is to reconcile the many and often conflicting demands that these various forms of life impose on us. The free-market ideologues take one instance of spontaneous order, and erect it into a prescription for all the others. They ask us to believe that the free exchange of commodities is the model for all social interaction. But many of our most important forms of life involve withdrawing what we value from the market: sexual morality is an obvious instance, city planning another. (America has failed abysmally in both those respects, of course.)

Looked at from the anthropological point of view religion can be seen as an elaborate (and spontaneous) way in which communities remove what is most precious to them (i.e. all that concerns the creation and reproduction of community) from the erosion of the market. A cultural conservative, such as I am, supports that enterprise. I would put the point in terms that echo Burke and Chesterton: the free market provides the optimal solution to the competition among the living for scarce resources; but when applied to the goods in which the dead and the unborn have an interest (sex, for instance) it wastes what must be saved."

This is clearly a much better solution than trying to subvert the spontaneous order of society. We should always seek to maim and reform the consequences of the invisible hand. What we shouldn't do is try to subvert, or worse, destroy it. What replaces it always falls short, since it is impossible to regulate an entire mode of production. The beauty of capitalism is its spontaneity. The farce of what you propose is its overwrought construction.

>>10130261
This post was an elaboration of quoted post, and was actually meant to be a reply to >>10128969

(I'm terrible at working 4chan)

>>10128144

>not knowing the difference between neoliberals and the far left.

>gives proofs
>lol who cares about it xD let me change the goal of the discussion
This is why the alt-right is growing.

>>10125161
>what the frankfurt school identified as precedents of authoritarianism worthy of subversion, contemporary right-wing reactionaries identify as tenets of western civilization worth defending.
this was a good post

>>10125587
Because you're a fascist yourself.

>>10129752
Lmao he talks the talk but he can't walk the walk.
Why should anyone believe your childish ideas if you don't even believe them enough defend them in a fist fight?

>>10127510

>>10124814
lmfao if you go to any reputable school and take classes outside of stem, you're bound to come across some of the frankfurt school

>reactionaries
>for believing that not every change is positively good and that there may be some worth to tradition
I hope you get your progressivism, good and hard

>>10131989
some frankfurt schoolers were cultural reactionaries tho

>>10132049
Kek

>>10124850
>my knowledge is rooted in divine providence
>conspiracy isn’t a powerful driving force in history
>everything my opponents do is projecting
You are truley a walking stereotype. I would give you 9.5 out of 10, if it’s bait.

>>10132068
He's right. Adorno was an elitist and a traditionalist

>>10132094
Adorno was precisely who I had in mind. I wouldn't call him a reactionary.

>>10124814
>zero influence on the public
>literally thousands of papers published on "demolishing whiteness" published every year
>hundreds of thousands have sat through courses on postmodernism/critical theory in poli sci/sociology classes

>>10125060
Does this even need to be stated? Literally every major pseudoscientist in the last 150 years has been jewish - cantor/freud/boaz/marx/mises/rothbard/rand/chomsky/countless other socialists/communists

>>10132094
I would somewhat disagree. It’s true that he loved to German high culture and he himself admitted that the German language is secound only to Ancient Greek, if the usefulness to philosophy is concerned. However like so many of his tribesmen his psychological problems made him destroy the things he enjoyed and that gave himself somewhat of a home.

>>10132101
>>10132121
“Not the least among the tasks now confronting thought is that of placing all the reactionary arguments against Western culture in the service of progressive enlightenment.”

He was a cultural reactionary in denial. The only reason people don't refer to him as such is a historical association of the term with right-wing thought; instead, they call him an elitist.

>>10132138
this quote by definition is not actually reactionary.

>>10132138
You can’t really fully understand him, if you read him in English in German this statement becomes more clear. That combined with other subversive tatics he wants to use the reactionary arguments to destroy western culture. Not because he really believes them. You also should read Der Zauberberg by Thomas Mann and study the archetype of Prof. Leo Naptha,

>>10132143
>>10132181
Have you read Minima Moralia? What he's saying here is that his grieavances with Western culture are mostly the same as the reactionaries, only he wants a return to Enlightenment ideals, not to drop them altogether.

His ideas were, by his own saying, close to those of self-declared reactionaries; he wanted a return to a golden past of Enlightenment humanist ideals; he loathed the current state of culture: Adorno was a reactionary.

>>10132114
>Rand
>Pseudoscientist
Try the best modern philosopher by miles.

>>10129752
Every time. EVERY TIME is a sucker punch. Do niggers just not have the concept of fighting like a man and not a coward?

>>10132203
>Have you read Minima Moralia
Yes
>What he's saying here is that his grieavances with Western culture are mostly the same as the reactionaries, only he wants a return to Enlightenment ideals, not to drop them altogether.
I think you are reading him in English, which is the first big mistake. The second big one is you assume he is sincere. He thinks the ideals of the early stages of the early modern Europe in which his people could whisper into the ears of kinds and and control them by their debts. If I am for the progressive bullshit of the last year this makes me a recationary by this year. Sure he is pissed that their control over the the degenerated aristocracy is gone and they now have to deal with the populistic pleb. But it’s all shallow.

>>10132203
>A Marxist pro Enlightenment Jewish college professor was reactionary because he was a
>Humanist
That enough /lit/ for today

>>10132244
Fuck off, nazi scum.

>>10132265
faggot

>>10132265
>Deep contribution
Thanks for that and now back to where ever this counts as an argument.

>>10129976
I'm fucking dying saved.

>>10125266
Because the Frankfurt School was literally just a bunch of Jewish pseuds looking to subvert Western society.

>this thread