/lit/ - Literature

Capitalism helped the individual prosper

>>10086274
He meant that capitalism has done a pretty phenomenal job of bringing immiserated societies out of absolute poverty, and that the former bulwarks against alienation (religion, culture, tribal affinity) have been derided as "reactionary" by critics of capitalism

>>10086274
teach a man to fish etc

>>10086286
>the individual

Stopped reading right there lol

>>10086286
It's ironic that traditionalists defend capitalism when it's the main reason traditional social bonds got destroyed.

Any way it's the oldest trick in the book. Diagnose depression, lack of motivation etc. give them an enemy to blam and say that the cure is giving you money.

Even better if in the meanwhile they support a system that destroys safety nets and social ties so that the more the pay the more insecure they become the more they pay.

>>10086294
>poverty

Good goy, buy more goods

>>10086300
Capitalism isn't necessary against safety nets and social ties, Smith himself supported all the shit. The current version in Murica got it all wrong but what did the Burgers manage not to corrupt?

>>10086300
Traditional bonds got destroyed when the forms they took were debunked by progressives who were critical of capitalism. It wasn't corporations who were critical of religion.

>>10086274
Capitalism didn't give me depression faggot. If I was born in an ooga booga african tribe or glorious China I'd still be depressed. Probably even more so than I am now.

>>10086294
>former bulwarks against alienation (religion, culture, tribal affinity)
Got replaced by consumerism either way, which at least makes more sense.

Anon 1 and anon 2 have a much stronger bound over buying the same phone than being pushed out of a vagina in the same city.

>>10086313
America was doing great with its localist system, as de Tocqueville pointed out. It didn't go to shit until the social bonds were eroded in the 60s

>>10086313
Capitalism is necessarily against the disruption of traditional bonds for two reasons:
1) they are meaningless to it. In the capitalist eye they are only inefficiencies. The feudal order has been a victim of capitalism universally: from the renaissance to china.

2) it empowers individuals which then use their power to emancipate themselves. Once a man is not dependent on somebody else for their livelihood they are not going to obey that person.

So efficiency required for everyone to participate in the job market, result: women are not going to demurely obey their husband, why should they, they got their own money and money is political power.

>>10086325
Lol, this moron probably grew up with a single mother in a western capitalist society and can't even CONCEIVE of an alternative

>>10086274
Its not so much he supports Capitalism so much as he's against failed batshit autistic dreamtime that has proven to result in gulags

>>10086321
Traditional bonds fell way Bedford the left, it started with the commercial revolution of the renaissance read your history

>>10086325
>africa and china aren't capitalist

>>10086339
Yes, goy, capitalism has never failed, that 2008 crisis? That was all the home owners faults goy, not us! That was the government, not us goy! Make sure to tell your friends that!

>>10086335
The economic situation managed to distract from the horrible issues it had. As it usually does.

>>10086339
>couple gulags
vs
>trillions spent on pointless wars harming even more people

>>10086341
The rise of the mercantile class in renaissance Europe had little bearing on the religiosity of Puritan America. That over went a separate revolution.

>>10086335
it's those evil hippies' fault i swear! but were did those hippies come from? Boomers grew up in the deceptive Sci Fi environment of bleakest suburbia with PTSD afflicted former GI dads, the menacing glow of the TV set beaming straight into their skulls. How do you expect them to adhere to a kitschy ideal of bourgeois domesticity that was only ever a thing in coke(tm) advertisements? you are way too short sighted mate. the process of dissolution stretches way back to renaissance Europe.

>>10086274
That's a good point.
Lets adopt the objectively better Soviet or feudalist system.

>>10086354
Don't be ridiculous. The GULAG system was horrifying. And it wasn't just the camps thenselves, but living under the constant threat of being sent to one for no reason and with no legal recourse. Vastly worse than someone who isn't you dying half a world away.

>>10086345
Are you seriously comparing the 2008 recession to the fucking Great Purge?

>>10086364
Puritan American is not only a reaction to modernity but modern too. That is the other jarring thing about American traditionalism: born out a rebellion to the king and to the pope, from people who thought they could legislate themselves better than what has been the order of the world more than a millennium.

The result is the laughable idea that the golden age of tradition is the 1950s and it came to end with the original sin of the1960s

Childish.

>>10086354
>pointless wars

There is no such thing as a pointless war, war is its own reward, its a force that gives us meaning

>>10086354
Oh is war something the capitalists invented now?

>>10086402
"It's the gift the keeps on giving"

In how many wars have you been jarhead?

>>10086408
I think he means Imperialism.

>>10086396
Are you seriously comparing the countless economic collapses, Jew funded coups and international wars to the fucking Great purge?

>>10086417
Not a capitalist invention

>>10086419
If you're implying foreign wars today aren't propped up by arms companies then you're deluded lol.

>>10086392
You know most of the Gulag Archipelago was fiction, and the parts that weren't were sensationalized?

It was literally a pure work of capitalist imperialist propaganda.

>>10086426
I'm implying that had the USSR won they would do the same.
In fact they have invaded many countries in their time

>>10086428
lmao

>>10086383
Critiques of capitalism seem indistinguishable from being a luddite lamenting material progress. The alienation that arises out of using an invention like television are inherent to the invention itself. Same as the alienation that arises out of social media are the result of social media itself, not on its misuse. And, barring some cataclysmic event, we can't ever go backwards. So all we can do is find methods of cohesion that work given those disruptive inventions, not to go backwards in time and LARP as a Bronze Age farmer.

>>10086438
Not him and not an argument. He's right.

>>10086428
Tell me how Anne Applebaum's book is also fiction without citing tankie propaganda

>>10086445
He's half right. A lot of it is based on hearsay, but like all oral history there are large elements of truth to it

>>10086418
>countless economic collapses

Oh boohoo Capitalism doesn't provide perfect constant growth :'(
We need to upend the entire economic system and risk millions of lives again because some niggers might be unemployed for a while

>>10086399
The order they created worked for hundreds of years and ended up creating the largest economy in the world and one of the longest-running democracies in history. Nothing laughable about what they attempted.

>>10086464
Might be nothing laughable about the economy, but the idea America is a democracy is laughable. It's still a republic.

>>10086392
> The GULAG system was horrifying.
I had family members there, and it generally wasn't too different from an average jail in Murica where you're forced to work, with a bit worse climate at times. Though I am talking about the time from 60s on, before they were definitely more hardcore.
But hey, even at their peak, fewer people were even near a gulag than are stuck in jail now.

>Vastly worse than someone who isn't you dying half a world away.
It could be you if you got drafted into some dumb war, besides, if you're not a complete sociopath, knowing that motherfuckers die for your comfy life is pretty horrible too. And not everyone can block it out with a stream of entertainment.

Besides, unless you got chance going your way, capitalism in Murica is fear about losing your job, which has similar consequences as jail and the stress of it happening it similar too.

>>10086419
Sure but the synergy is fantastic. No other ideology encourages it as much as a solution, maybe sans some religious extremists.

>>10086476
>Sure but the synergy is fantastic. No other ideology encourages it as much as a solution, maybe sans some religious extremists.
Not so sure about that, the USSR promoted socialism heavily in South America and flat out invaded certain countries.

>>10086321
>Traditional bonds got destroyed when the forms they took were debunked by progressives who were critical of capitalism.

No, traditional bonds got destroyed by industrialisation and urbanisation. Capitalism was the primary driver of this. Commies tried in Russia and China but they weren't even competent at destroying things so they ended up with much closer social bonds and stronger traditions than the capitalist west.


>It wasn't corporations who were critical of religion
They didn't have to be. They still created a world where traditional bonds were completely indefensible against the ravages of modernity.


I'm not a commie, I'm actually fully on-board with captalism, I just think it's necessary to recognise the collateral damage that comes with it, try to recognise the changes capitalism makes without solely focussing on GDP and without completely dismissing the complaints of people who can't portray their concerns in terms of quarterly staistics.

>>10086476
>and it generally wasn't too different from an average jail in Murica
Shut the fuck up. Look at the death rates of American prisons and compare then to the rates in Siberian GULAGs. What a fucking absurd moral equivalency. You people are jokes.

>>10086487
Dude, the commies suppressed religion heavily, what are you talking about they had stronger traditions

>>10086493
>Dude, the commies suppressed religion heavily
look how that turned out.

>>10086507
They became more capitalist and got more religious?

>>10086512
They failed at suppressing religion.

Give them a hundred years of capitalism and development and we'll see how religious they re.

>>10086487
Where do you get your alternative history from? The people enacting a self-proclaimed cultural revolution ended up with stronger traditional elements? No, the truth is that the events that lead to the erosion of traditional forms of cohesion weren't simply economic in nature, but were social and cultural as well. And the social and cultural critiques came from the very same people who overestimated the economic component of that erosion. It was a self-fulfilling prophesy on their part.

>>10086523
Really?
Cause you see the same trend in China
Socialism actively tries to destroys the old traditions and to build new ones

>>10086443
The 'misuse' is embedded into the system. Social media is a Pavlovian psychosis machine by design, not by accident. Remember ' like everything else under capitalism it is driven by the profit imperative. Minor tweaks to the altgorithms can have momentous psychosocial and political consequences. That's what I don't get about conservatives, they can only offer vaguely nostalgic platitudes and hence they will get steamrolled by the techocapital juggernaut every fucking time.

>>10086481
It was more of lending their hand to insurgencies that supported their cause. When did the soviet pull the absurdity of Murica when they are supporting one side, and bombing them to shit a bit later?

>>10086488
The numbers need to be compared with the average death rate in the country to make sense. But hey, let's give it a try. (feel free to look for more accurate number for gulags, that shit is a mess obviously and I picked the first result from google)

From 50s to 53s, the death rate in Gulags started at 1000/100,000 and went down to 300/100,000. (it's silly to include wartime and postwar time numbers due the state of the country) While a bit higher even in the latter years, we're talking about Soviet Union in the early 50s vs modern fucking US of A.

In Murica we got:
>Between 2001 and 2014, there were 50,785 prisoner deaths in state and federal prisons.
>(256 per 100,000 state prisoners) was 14% higher than the federal prisoner mortality rate (225 per 100,000 federal prisoners) between 2001 and 2014.

>>10086295
and then take the fish from him and give him a fraction of the value of fish so he has to come back tomorrow and do the same

>>10086354
I wonder if they covered people in their own shit and made them face off with a combat dogs until they piss themselves in the gulags?

>>10086392
gulags were fucking terrible and the soviet union was shit but the idea that the soviet union was like 1984 was just cold war propaganda.

>>10086402
as if you have the slightest idea about what war is

>>10086563
Driving your tanks into Eastern Europe comes close.
China's involvement in Vietnam and Korea, USSR basically staging a coup in Afghanistan.
So you don't have an issue with the U.S supporting lets say the Mujaheddin or Contra?
Imperialism is not a capitalist thing, that's what the original claim was, and it's flat out wrong.

>>10086577
>as if you have the slightest idea about what war is
>Hurr ya no nuffin Jon Snow

Like I give a shit, I don't intend on fighting I intend on there being an awareness that fighting is going on. Let the hoopelheads kill babies and come back have schizomanic

>>10086557
You're the conservative in this discussion. The realities of material progress prevents one from going back in time prior to the invention of a disruptive medium. Your perception of the world also completely discounts the possitive elements of disruptive media, like the fact that we're able to have this conversation right now. Does the fact that book-printing indirectly lead to the Protestant reformation and various bloody wars prior to the Treaty of Westphalia suggest that the mass distribution of books was a bad thing for civilization? The vicissitudes of material progress aren't worth getting rid of material progress entirely.

>>10086582
>Driving your tanks into Eastern Europe comes close.
Yeah, that definitely counts.

>China's involvement in Vietnam and Korea, USSR basically staging a coup in Afghanistan.
They were supporting an ally, it's closer to Mujaheddin and Contras, which is pretty basic politics, although the latter didn't even support American politics, but hey, divide et impera. Changing your support all the time is the bigger clusterfuck.

Obviously imperialism isn't a capitalist thing but capitalistic states tend to be more friendly to it, since it's good for the market.

>>10086602
See I can't agree with your last point, a fascist regime has as many reasons to invade countries and put a puppet regime in control.
It's simply that the U.S is the biggest military force.
I don't think you can really claim that if the biggest player was a communist or a fascist regime that they'd be less imperialistic, the exact opposite I think would be the case.

>>10086464
A couple of hundred years is a drop in the history of the world. This is not tradition that you are holding to, you are holding to your dads jacket and you are complaining that it doesn't fit you as well.

Your golden age literally lasted 10 years and it was the post-war economic boom. The post-60s sexual revolution has lasted by now more than your golden age.

>>10086543
>Socialism actively tries to destroys the old traditions and to build new ones
and it routinely fails. Capitalism doesn't try to destroy traditions, it just bulldozes over them without realising it.

>>10086563
Show me an American prison where the death rate is 176/1000, and without a trial by jury.

>>10086608
Capitalism isn't a force, it's the people that do it.
I'd rather the people voluntarily give it up than a regime trying actively to destroy the countries history.

tell the truth

>>10086606
>A couple of hundred years is a drop in the history of the world.

Not really, recorded history is only like what, 6000 years old? That means 3-5% of all of history depending where you draw the line which is hardly nothing

>>10086606
241 years of a single government uninterrupted, with the same constitution throughout, is actually a pretty remarkable feat in historical terms.

>>10086614
>Capitalism isn't a force, it's the people that do it

Ridiculous logic

>>10086531
>Where do you get your alternative history from?
Nothing alternative about it.

>The people enacting a self-proclaimed cultural revolution ended up with stronger traditional elements?
Yes, the "cultural revolution" failed miserably.

>No, the truth is that the events that lead to the erosion of traditional forms of cohesion weren't simply economic in nature, but were social and cultural as well.
Yes, but the root of it was economic, and it was expressed entirely in terms of economic productivity.

>And the social and cultural critiques came from the very same people who overestimated the economic component of that erosion. It was a self-fulfilling prophesy on their part.
I assume you're talking about feminists and the like but the story goes back way further than that. They're a product of the breakdown of social structures not the cause.

>>10086605
>I don't think you can really claim that if the biggest player was a communist or a fascist regime that they'd be less imperialistic, the exact opposite I think would be the case.
Well, with fascist we do have examples proving it. With communists it would vary a lot based on their interpretations and goals. Wasn't the soviet union noticeable less imperialistic compared to USA, despite having almost just as powerful military? Besides, the arms race hurt them much more, while the States benefited from it.

>>10086609
>42
Hey, the financial crisis is bad and all but America isn't in any official war while the country is undergoing a system change as the Soviets were at the time. It makes much more sense to compare the numbers from the 50s when things stabilised, and we're still left with a much poorer country and medical knowledge from the 50s.

>>10086621
Capitalism is simply giving the people freedom, what they do with it has it's upsides (incredibly innovation and productivity) and its downsides (loss of tradition, rampant consumerism)
Socialism is the opposite, it's not for freedom so you can't say it's the people that do it like you can with capitalism.

>>10086629
>working your slaves to death doesn't count if it's during a war

>>10086345
>economic recession
vs
>tens of millions executed and starved

>>10086583
this has got to be one of the most pathetic things i've ever seen

>>10086629
No the Soviet Union was more imperialistic.
The USA left western europe to vote for what they wanted, socialist parties were allowed in Europe, the same cannot be said about how the USSR handled Eastern Europe.
The USSR spread it's ideology in South America with disastrous results, the US tried the same.
The USSR occupied Afghanistan, the U.S.A invaded Vietnam and Korea.
Roughly equal, USSR has a worse track record imo.

>>10086630
>You will immediately cease and not continue to access the site if you are under the age of 18.

>>10086644
Great addition to the discussion

>>10086641
>The USA left western europe to vote for what they wanted
>Implying the US didn't constantly sabotage left-wing parties in Italy and France

>>10086625
Not feminism necessarily, but more Marxist critiques of religion. Marx himself said in his "opiet of the masses" passage that criticism of religion was intended to get rid of the one reactionary comfort people had in order that they could focus on bettering their economic condition. He said that criticism of religion "plucked the flower from the chain" so that man could "break the chain."

>>10086654
>Implying the US didn't constantly sabotage left-wing parties in Italy and France

lol git gud loser

>>10086654
Did they forbid people to vote for them or what?

>>10086274
Does JP literally believe in God and the events of the bible? I saw in one interview he was asked if he believed that Jesus existed and rose from the dead and he struggled to answer.

>>10086635
Social norms during war can't be compared to norms during the peace time. Everyone is paranoid about everything and resources are scarce, so a human life isn't worth shit. It's like blaming the current deaths and torture in Syrian jails on the country being capitalistic.

>>10086641
>socialist parties were allowed in Europe
While McCarthyism went rampant at home. Besides, they supported tons of right wing terrorists in Europe, take stuff like Operation Gladio for example. US war a lot more clever about their goals than than Soviets for sure, but not much more democratic.

>The USSR occupied Afghanistan
They supported the government after the coup, and their relationship wasn't the best.
U.S.A. had their hands in a much more clear attempt in Iran, and let's not forget Cuba.

Wouldn't call them equal though USSR indeed had a worse record.

>>10086620
Not really.

It's a pretty average run. Ancien Regime lasted longer, Holy Roman empire, Papal State, the roman republic. There is plenty of examples.

Plus the US had a civil war so it's not uninterrupted.

But I guess I'll go file this anyway under "american exceptionalism"

>>10086671
>Social norms during war can't be compared to norms during the peace time. Everyone is paranoid about everything and resources are scarce, so a human life isn't worth shit. It's like blaming the current deaths and torture in Syrian jails on the country being capitalistic.

Dekulakization and the belief in Lysenko's pseudobiology lead to a complete collapse in productivity that forced the Soviets to rely on slave labor. I'm not gonna blame them for having to deal with tee Nazis, but I'm perfectly entitled to blame them for subscribing to an ideology that forced them to do those horrific things.

>>10086671
>US war a lot more clever about their goals than than Soviets for sure, but not much more democratic.
Not clever, they were more free, an absolute fact
Even comparing the democracy in Eastern Europe with the western part is a joke, you can't possible think they were just slightly less democratic, please.
>They supported the government after the coup, and their relationship wasn't the best.
They trained the ones who committed the coup
For my original position to ring true they don't even need to be equal, it's clear both were imperialistic, to ascribe it to capitalism like I see socialists often do is a lie.

>>10086274
He admits that capitalism has flaws. Just because someone doesn't support the polar opposite of something it doesn't mean they are a proponent of it.

>>10086677
You can't really compare the lifespan of ancient regimes to those of contemporary ones, given how modern technology compresses progresss. A nation wasn't able to double its GDP in a matter of decades, or trade with the other side of the globe 2000 years ago.

>>10086274
Leftists don't want to end depression at all. They will declare depression a social construct in the near future and claim people who want to be cured from it are just suffering from 'internalised oppression' all while defending the right to commit suicide as a protected cultural practice. You know it's gonna happen. It's all about 'power relations' for them.

>>10086687
>for subscribing to an ideology that forced them to do those horrific things
Which often happens during horrible periods, especially in a country that's still finding their feet, trying to adapt to modern times in a record time. During early stages of industrialisation quasi slave labour was pretty common and USSR had to catch up centuries in the matter of decades, now add the rush of finding a way to deal with basic shit while fighting the worst war in human history and their idiotic decisions make sense in historical context.

As seen by the numbers from peace time, things improved massively.

>>10086688
>you can't possible think they were just slightly less democratic, please.
Yeah fair point, made the brainfart of comparing them to current democracies instead of West - East countries.

>They trained the ones who committed the coup
Does it matter when it wasn't their call to make?

>For my original position to ring true they don't even need to be equal, it's clear both were imperialistic, to ascribe it to capitalism like I see socialists often do is a lie.
Yes, fair enough too. You right, anon.

>>10086715
There's nothing inherent to industrialization that requires slave labor. The 21st century demonstrates how successful free and open trade is when it comes to lifting a nation out of absolute poverty.

Regardless of America's history of stifling political dissent, no rational person can deny that the Soviet Union and its show trials was much more totalitarian in how it enforced its state ideology. That, coupled with bad administration (inherent to a command and control economy) and resentment towards success (let's send our most productive farmers to work camp!) lead to a really horrific atmosphere for the average person in the USSR that didn't exist in America unless you were a poor black man living in a white neighborhood.

>>10086274
>capitalizes on anti-SJW situation
>realizes anti-SJW people also tend to be massive losers
>starts patreon to extract said losers parents money
>supports capitalism
fixed

>>10086345
it was the government, though

>>10086750
>realizes anti-SJW people also tend to be massive losers
Have you seen antifa congregate? Post wrote an article about two antifa NEETs a couple weeks ago. Both sides are chock-full of losers

>>10086706
Yeah and you can't mix traditionalism with a hypermodern nation like the united states. Maybe you don't see it but all people hear is: I like change but only until it's convenient for me.

No reason to disguise it in lofty ideals while using greco-roman statues for graphics.

>>10086577
>the idea that the soviet union was like 1984 was just cold war propaganda
under Stalin it was dummy

>>10086769
You can absolutely create a synthesis by plucking elements from our past traditions and bringing them into new contexts. Isn't that what the medieval Christians did when they appropriated elements form the Greco-Roman civilization that preceded it?

>>10086760
Aren't the antifa people mostly rich kid "revolutionists" ? The ones that will have high paid jobs once they've got bored of this?

I honestly wonder how many hippies actually helped during the civil rights movement and it wasn't just an excuse for drugs and sex? I wonder how many of them dodged the draft? i wonder how many of those hippies became the yuppies of the 80s?

>>10086784
The two in the article were troubled NEETs who were looking for a purpose in life. It's anecdotal, but a lot of the people in I know personally who subscribe to extreme political movements tend to be smart people whose intelligence isn't keeping them from being poor. Once they get a real job their activism dies down.

>>10086666
Nice quads.

But it depends on what you mean by "believe".

If you were to watch a movie that you're entirely enthralled in and it gets to the sad part and you start crying and someone asks you (condescendingly): "do you actually believe that this movie really happened?", you'd tell them to shut up.

It's not a question of "belief".

The Bible is a work of art like a movie or a painting or any other book.

The difference is that The Bible has multiple authors and has survived hundreds of years and has been read and analyzed an uncountable number of times.
The Bible trumps the rest of the entire western canon. Even Shakespeare is secondary to to The Bible.
I'm not saying the Bible is better, but it is more popular and you can't deny that.

>The bible is fiction
You can't consider yourself a christian if you think the bible is just a huge meme

>>10086760
Are you a peterson fan?

>>10086274
Throw out your laptop

>>10086812
>You can't consider yourself a christian
Why the fuck would anyone want to?

>>10086824
stop taking penicillin

>>10086784
No, they're societal rejects, with health problems.

>>10086816
Yeah, he's interesting. You don't have to agree with his conception of the world entirely, but if you can't find some value in Maps of Meaning then you probably read it wrong.

>>10086738
why are tripfags always the most insufferable morons?

>>10086826
Because its the ultimate truth of the universe; If not by that, because without the crusade to defend the west, there wouldn't be a western civilization to begin with

>>10086830
Loser.

>>10086854
Have you read it?

>>10086274
He supports capitalism insofar as it is superior to alternatives, which it is.

>>10086867
list all the alternatives to capitalism or never post again, this is non-negotiable

you miss one and you're done kid

>>10086274
Capitalism is the prime motivator of the scourge that is radical individualism. It motivates you to only care about yourself and your own economic interests, which creates an isolating and miserable human experience.

Happiness and purpose is brought about by a sense of belonging and purpose. No one has that when they are some replaceable cog in an impersonal system. No one has that when you are expected to move to some new place on a whim to go to school, get a job, whatever, away from all your family and loved ones. It comes from a sense of community and belonging, with family and neighbors. It comes from a uniform cultural identity. It's fun to belong and sing along with neighbors to songs everyone knows, but instead everyone wants to be some kind of hipster with their own, isolated interests, where they express these things in impersonal relations on the internet or with people who's only bond is with these superficial interests. These people still cling to these ideas, as they are human, which is why you see the false altruism in leftists and the hypocritical traditional values of conservatives. The reality is these things will not bring happiness due to the intrinsic flaw we in our society and how we perceive ourselves.

We developed in the wrong way and we are paying the price, through isolation and misery, excessive consumption, and exploitation of limited resources. This will continue until we reach a point where the goodwill backed solely on met needs will crumble, when resources begin to become more scarce instead of more plentiful. Then, people will wake up their human condition in the worst way possible. We needed a society to develop around communities and sense of belonging, with progress guided by pragmatic outlooks rather than exclusively economic ones (geared towards consumption), but it is at a point where it can't be turned back. What people consider normal is now a warped, delusional view of life. Because of that, we are powerless to change it, because people are unable to even recognize what exactly is fundamentally wrong with society. Even those that do are unable to change anything, or even themselves, since they are roped into it with the warped expectations and obligations that come from society. So we have individualism without choice, and without community.

>>10086884
A useless activity since the best shit in the world at this time are the products of capitalism, not any other system. Which is all you need to point to.

>>10086866
How much of your parents money have you given to peterson?

>>10086894
He put out the book for free in PDF form on his website. Add it to your reading list

>>10086890
you knew the deal and you blew it, get out of here and don't return

>>10086905
I knew from your first response you were the type of person i was referring to.

>>10086888
At the same time, capitalism offers you better means to achieve success with your ability and share with others. It's easier to share food with your neighbour when you have a stocked fridge.


Also it's flexible enough to be adjusted to the less able people won't get fucked by the system completely either as it happens in Yurope.

>>10086914
I'm still here. Watchu gonna do bout it faggot?

>>10086918
The sort of loser who reads books by relevant people. You fucking got me

>>10086933
It is, but that's not really happening. Studies have shown that growing up in a poor community strengthens sense of community, since they need and interact with each other more. This isn't the case in America, people poor to the point of hunger are often miserable, wretched people, because they generally don't ask for help and people don't offer it. Nothing is worse than poverty and isolation.

>>10086953
>that's not really happening
It is. It just doesn't happen for 99% of the population. But rules of nature and everything.

>>10086953
>because they generally don't ask for help
That's more down to American attitudes towards it with the belief that if someone is poor, it's their fault and that they should just become rich with muh hard work. Besides, poverty is much more extreme there.

The problem does exist in Europe too but it's a lot less pronounced, and it's only partly related to capitalism.

>>10086964
I'm just basing this off my observations in America and observations abroad. The thing is, most people who go hungry in America are children, and it's because they have unfit parents. In a country with food banks, food stamps, and free school breakfasts and lunches, no child should go hungry, but they do, which leads to an isolating experience. It goes beyond just poverty and includes family dynamics. I'm sure it may be different in places with more widespread poverty like Appalachia and the Mississippi Delta, and in poor immigrant neighborhoods like the barrios, which retain their poor upbringing and values, but this is the norm from my observations.

>>10086982
Yea, my original post referred exclusively to phenomenon in America, and while Europe does share some overlap, the dynamics are a bit different because of shared long-standing cultures and population density, as well as probably other factors. Never been to Europe, but that's just my understanding.

>>10086274
He didn't mean anything by it you just think they can't be related

>>10086274
What JBP thing do I read or watch to help myself cope with depression, suicide, loneliness, stress and lack of ambition?

>>10086286
Capitalism helped individualism prosper, but killed the individual

Only the lazy hate capitalism. Jordan Peterson helped me get my act together. I wish I could repay him in more ways than just donating to his patreon.

>>10086462
Not an argument

>>10086637
Not an argument.

>>10087094
But they literally can't, lol?

>>10087377
Oy vey, anyone who doesn't want to work for ((their)) illegal financial system is just lazy!

>>10087191
Watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07Ys4tQPRis
then https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YC1pvjyKYr4
Then his Rogan stuff

Then do his authoring program, and keep watching + acting