/lit/ - Literature

>>16471253
Republic, Phaedrus, Symposium (Only Socrates and Diotima is Plato's views).
fuck
off

>>16337623
yes, bravo Plato...

>And isn’t what is most beautiful also most loveable?
Of course.
>And a musical person would love such people most of all, but he wouldn’t love anyone who lacked harmony?
No, he wouldn’t, at least not if the defect was in the soul, but if it was only in the body, he’d put up with it and be willing to embrace the boy who had it.
>I gather that you love or have loved such a boy yourself, and I agree with you. Tell me this, however: Is excessive pleasure compatible with moderation?
How can it be, since it drives one mad just as much as pain does?
>What about with the rest of virtue?
No.
>Well, then, is it compatible with violence and licentiousness?
Very much so.
>Can you think of a greater or keener pleasure than sexual pleasure?
I can’t—or a madder one either.
>But the right kind of love is by nature the love of order and beauty that has been moderated by education in music and poetry?
That’s right.
>Therefore, the right kind of love has nothing mad or licentious about it?
No, it hasn’t.
>Then sexual pleasure mustn’t come into it, and the lover and the boy he loves must have no share in it, if they are to love and be loved in the right way?
By god, no, Socrates, it mustn’t come into it.
>It seems, then, that you’ll lay it down as a law in the city we’re establishing that if a lover can persuade a boy to let him, then he may kiss him, be with him, and touch him, as a father would a son, for the sake of what is fine and beautiful, but—turning to the other things—his association with the one he cares about must never seem to go any further than this, otherwise he will be reproached as untrained in music and poetry and lacking in appreciation for what is fine and beautiful.

Tolkien shows what Plato meant with Lovers.

>>15989845
>>15990140
Socrates calls himself Alcibiades lover, this is after either of Alcibiades dialogues, and Symposium is probably also before the Alcibiades dialogues (or after agreeing to his mentor, which implies no homofaggotry), Lover in platonic terms means mentor and tutor, that Socrates tries to be a Midwife of Alcibiades Wisdom. How did relationship should operate is clear in Republic. In Phaedrus Socrates sympathetically explains why two lovers never should engage in sex for spiritual reasons (last two pages in in related).
>>15992336 haven't read this but probably elaborate this