/lit/ - Literature

So what are some tips or things I should keep in mind when reading his poetry? I know an anon or two is knowledgeable about him here. Everything I read about him sounds like a poet I would like. I couldn’t make a ton of sense of his essays though so I think I could use some help

>German Schizoism

Am I right?

Let the tale of this poor soul serve as a warning to you all about the dangers of German Idealism.

The Christian religion belongs to no specific national stock: the Christian dogma addresses purely - human nature. Only in so far as it has seized in all its purity this content common to all men, can a people call itself Christian in truth. However, a people can make nothing fully its own but what becomes possible for it to grasp with its inborn feeling, and to grasp in such a fashion that in the New it finds its own familiar self again. Upon the realm of aesthetics and philosophic Criticism it may be demonstrated, almost palpably, that it was predestined for the German spirit to seize and assimilate the Foreign, the primarily remote from it, in utmost purity and objectivity of intuition (in höchster objektiver Reinheit der Anschauung). One may aver, without exaggeration, that the Antique would have stayed unknown, in its now universal world-significance, had the German spirit not recognised and expounded it. The Italian made as much of the Antique his own, as he could copy and remodel; the Frenchman borrowed from this remodelling, in his turn, whatever caressed his national sense for elegance of Form: the German was the first to apprehend its purely-human originality, to seize therein a meaning quite aloof from usefulness, but therefore of the only use for rendering the Purely-human. Through its inmost understanding of the Antique, the German spirit arrived at the capability of restoring the Purely-human itself to its pristine freedom; not employing the antique form to display a certain given 'stuff,' but moulding the necessary new form itself through an employment of the antique conception of the world. To recognise this plainly, let anyone compare Goethe's Iphigenia with that of Euripides. One may say that the true idea of the Antique has existed only since the middle of the eighteenth century, since Winckelmann and Lessing.

Can anyone help me out with him? A lot of his work essays are going over my head. I decided to gamble and got a collection of his letters and essays. The letters I like. Any knowledgeable anons here?

I just for the love of me can't get into Hölderlin. But I really want to. I love his odes. But his shorter poems all read so wonky. I don't understand the meter at all. I know that it imitates ancient Greek meter but I just don't get it. I can't wrap my head around it. It comes out as amateurish which it obviously isn't. How do I learn to appretiate it? Do I have to read it out loud? Do I have to study the ancient Greek originals which he copied?

Please help me, other germanbros.

So Hölderlin literally went insane trying to reconcile Greek paganism and Christianity

> A true synthesis, after all, was impossible. If Hölderlin had succeeded in persuading himself that Christ was no more divine than Dionysus, it has been well pointed out, he would have had no serious difficulty in constructing a myth of reconciliation." In his last known letter written before his breakdown, he wrote of the greatness of the ancients but also of the "incomprehensibly more divine character of our holy religion." Unlike Goethe, Schiller, Heine, and a host of lesser men, he had a specific, very strong love for Christ; indeed, a psychological bond to Him. For a worshiper of the Greeks, it was a paradoxical en- dowment. As Guardini says, one cannot even be sure whether Hölderlin's gods were essentially pagan or rather served to prepare the way for an acceptance of the one god of Christianity, conceived of not as a bloodless monotheistic principle but as a living reality. Certainly he had a fibre adorative, a genuinely religious temperament. Unlike his successor Stefan George, he reached no clear decision. Even the evidence of his long years of madness is inconsistent. He spoke of himself as orthodox and was, at one period, badly upset when visitors brought up pagan matters.

> Generally, Hölderlin's impact has been mainly in the direction of paganism: it is his vision of Greece which has had the greatest appeal. In the nineteenth century he was largely ignored, though Nietzsche admired him intensely.

> Apart from his personal psychological problems, Hölderlin's fatal conflict derived from the impossibility of reconciling his deep devotion to Christ with a clashing belief. This conflict is as old as Christianity itself; it was his intensity, his very sincerity, which made it unbearable.

I just started reading some poetry by Hölderlin. He is considered one of the greatest German poets.

I am probably wrong about this, but his meter often seems quite wonky. Some of his stuff seems to be almost written in free verse. Is this correct, or is he just referencing old Greek meters I have no knowledge of? It's all a bit hard to read for me because of this. And I cannot imagine that supposedly one of the greatest poets in my native language to have such a poor grasp on meter, so I suspect the joke is on me.

>>19107045
>romanticism = dominated by the English

"Wenn einer in den Spiegel siehet, ein Mann, und siehet darinn sein Bild, wie abgemahlt; es gleicht dem Manne. Augen hat des Menschen Bild, hingegen Licht der Mond. Der König Ödipus hat ein Auge zuviel vielleicht. Diese Leiden dieses Mannes, sie scheinen unbeschreiblich, unaussprechlich, unausdrücklich. Wenn das Schauspiel ein solches darstellt, kommt’s daher. Wie ist mir’s aber, gedenk’ ich deiner jetzt? Wie Bäche reißt des Ende von Etwas mich dahin, welches sich wie Asien ausdehnet. Natürlich dieses Leiden, das hat Ödipus. Natürlich ist’s darum Hat auch Herkules gelitten? Wohl. Die Dioskuren in ihrer Freundschaft haben die nicht Leiden auch getragen? Nämlich wie Herkules mit Gott zu streiten, das ist Leiden. Und die Unsterblichkeit im Neide dieses Lebens, diese zu theilen, ist ein Leiden auch. Doch das ist auch ein Leiden, wenn mit Sommerflecken ist bedeckt ein Mensch, mit manchen Flecken ganz überdeckt zu seyn! Das thut dieschöne Sonne: nämlich die ziehet alles auf. Die Jünglinge führt die Bahn sie mit Reizen ihrer Strahlen wie mit Rosen. Die Leiden scheinen so, die Ödipus getragen, als wie ein armer Mann klagt, daß ihm etwas fehle. Sohn Laios, armer Fremdling in Griechenland! Leben ist Tod, und Tod ist auch ein Leben."

-------

"When someone looks into the mirror, a man, and in it sees his image, as though it were a painted likeness; it resembles the man. The image of man has eyes, whereas the moon has light. King Oedipus has an eye too many perhaps. The sufferings of this man, they seem indescribable, unspeakable, inexpressible. If the drama represents something like this, that is why. But what comes over me if I think of you now? Like brooks the end of something sweeps me away, which expands like Asia. Of course, this affliction, Oedipus has it too. Of course, that is why. Did Hercules suffer too? Indeed. The Dioscuri in their friendship, did not they bear afflictions too? For to fight with God like Hercules, that is an affliction. And immortality amidst the envy of this life to share in that, is an affliction too. But this also is an affliction, when a man is covered with freckles, to be wholly covered with many a spot! The beautiful sun does that: for it rears up all things. It leads young men along their course with the allurements of its beams as though with roses. The afflictions that Oedipus bore seem like this, as when a poor man complains that that there is something he lacks. Son of Laios, poor stranger in Greece! Life is death, and death is a kind of life."

"Wenn einer in den Spiegel siehet, ein Mann, und siehet darinn sein Bild, wie abgemahlt; es gleicht dem Manne. Augen hat des Menschen Bild, hingegen Licht der Mond. Der König Ödipus hat ein Auge zuviel vielleicht. Diese Leiden dieses Mannes, sie scheinen unbeschreiblich, unaussprechlich, unausdrücklich. Wenn das Schauspiel ein solches darstellt, kommt’s daher. Wie ist mir’s aber, gedenk’ ich deiner jetzt? Wie Bäche reißt des Ende von Etwas mich dahin, welches sich wie Asien ausdehnet. Natürlich dieses Leiden, das hat Ödipus. Natürlich ist’s darum Hat auch Herkules gelitten? Wohl. Die Dioskuren in ihrer Freundschaft haben die nicht Leiden auch getragen? Nämlich wie Herkules mit Gott zu streiten, das ist Leiden. Und die Unsterblichkeit im Neide dieses Lebens, diese zu theilen, ist ein Leiden auch. Doch das ist auch ein Leiden, wenn mit Sommerflecken ist bedeckt ein Mensch, mit manchen Flecken ganz überdeckt zu seyn! Das thut dieschöne Sonne: nämlich die ziehet alles auf. Die Jünglinge führt die Bahn sie mit Reizen ihrer Strahlen wie mit Rosen. Die Leiden scheinen so, die Ödipus getragen, als wie ein armer Mann klagt, daß ihm etwas fehle. Sohn Laios, armer Fremdling in Griechenland! Leben ist Tod, und Tod ist auch ein Leben."

-------

"When someone looks into the mirror, a man, and in it sees his image, as though it were a painted likeness; it resembles the man. The image of man has eyes, whereas the moon has light. King Oedipus has an eye too many perhaps. The sufferings of this man, they seem indescribable, unspeakable, inexpressible. If the drama represents something like this, that is why. But what comes over me if I think of you now? Like brooks the end of something sweeps me away, which expands like Asia. Of course, this affliction, Oedipus has it too. Of course, that is why. Did Hercules suffer too? Indeed. The Dioscuri in their friendship, did not they bear afflictions too? For to fight with God like Hercules, that is an affliction. And immortality amidst the envy of this life to share in that, is an affliction too. But this also is an affliction, when a man is covered with freckles, to be wholly covered with many a spot! The beautiful sun does that: for it rears up all things. It leads young men along their course with the allurements of its beams as though with roses. The afflictions that Oedipus bore seem like this, as when a poor man complains that that there is something he lacks. Son of Laios, poor stranger in Greece! Life is death, and death is a kind of life."

What differentiates the dionysian way of life from mere hedonism?

How do I learn how to read poetry properly? People either read poetry in this painfully affected, pompous manner or as if it was just prose broken up with line breaks. Surely the intended way must be somewhere between these two.

How do I know how to approach a poem properly?

>>17547860

>>17547602
he came and was told to take his meds

I bought the Complete Works and Letters of Friedrich Hölderlin for 100€ as I think, Hölderlin was the greatest poet that ever lived, maybe even "the poet of the poet" as Heidegger called him.

Was trying to answer a question on translations as it has come up a few times, but unfortunately my power went out and now the thread is gone.

Continues from:
>>/lit/thread/S16475693#p16476218

I don't think Santner is the actual translator, but an editor and commentator. He includes several translators in his edition. Here's a few different translations from various works.

Dichterberuf / The Poet's Vocation
German

Des Ganges Ufer hörten des Freudengotts
Triumph, als allerobernd vom Indus her
Der junge Bacchus kam, mit heilgem
Weine vom Schlafe die Volker wekend.

Und du, des Tages Engel! erwekst sie nicht,
Die jezt noch schlafen? gieb die Geseze, gieb
Uns Leben, siege, Meister, du nur
Hast der Eroberung Recht, wie Bacchus.
-----

C. Middleton

Shores of Ganges heard the paean for the god
Of joy when Bacchus came, conquering all,
Young, from the Indus, with holy wine
Rousing the people from their slumber

And you, angel of our time, shall you arouse them too,
The peoples unawakened? Give the laws,
Give life to us, conquer, you alone,
As Bacchus once, have right of conquest.
-----

M. Hamburger

The banks of Ganges heard how the god of joy
Was hailed when conquering all from far Indus came
The youthful Bacchus, and with holy
Wine from their drowsiness woke the peoples.

And you, our own day's angel, do not awake
Those drowsing still? O give us the laws, and give
Us life, You, Master, triumph! Only
You, like that god, have the right to conquer.

>>16290565
This one

Has anyone read him?

Holderlin obv

Do you know any poetry about the mountains? Hölderlin comes to mind but that's all I got, I guess the romantics also have a lot but I'm not too familiar with them. I can read in English, German and French but all languages are welcome. Also share any /lit/ content related to the mountains. I just love them so much.