/lit/ - Literature

>>19462957
What are you talking about? We aren't even talking about Catholic doctrine right now, we are just talking about the apostolic faith. There are many Protestants who believe in the real presence, Luther called Mary the Queen of Heaven, and the early Anglicans used to ask for intercessory prayer. Now, if you want to talk about specifically Catholic doctrine, and what convinced me to leave Protestantism, that's fine. I've read many of the primary sources on Church History and the acta of the ecumenical councils (and associated documents and letters), and there are so many mentions the fact of apostolic succession, unity and presidency being from the seat of St. Peter, the bishops of Rome being successors of St. Peter, and the necessity of assembling only where there are apostolic bishops, that I saw no other choice but to convert to one of the two. Now, I did extensive research into both EO and Catholicism (who both agree the bishop of Rome was the primate and first among equals, by the way), and that conversation is probably neither here nor here, and might be a bit too much in-house baseball for this talk. But please give me the charity of assuming that I am not just a retard who made his choice blindly. Would you receive it kindly if I said the same about you? I am literally telling you to go read the primary sources themselves, with an open heart, and come to your own conclusion. There is no need to justify yourself to me through insults. I would rather you study, than argue.
>>19463031
>argument 1: you're wrong (no proof)
>argument 2: even if you are right, it doesn't matter
The opinions of the early church fathers matter because they, and their disciples. were the ones who knew the apostles personally, and thus had the deepest understanding of what the apostolic doctrines themselves were - the type of teachings that the apostles were teaching. For obvious reasons, what the apostles taught is of the utmost importance, and for that reason, the writings of people like St. Irenaeus (who was the disciple of St. Polycarp, in turn the disciple of St. John) should be viewed as the closest link we have to finding out what kinds of things St. John actually taught. Now many of their writings are lost, but the writings we do have are extremely valuable in elucidating the apostolic teachings. This is the value of the church fathers.
>Are they infallible?
Only when gathered in an ecumenical council, or when they all agree with each other (for example, on baptismal regeneration) - the latter of which is called the "ordinary and universal magisterium" [perhaps summarized as the constant teaching of the church, originating from the Holy Spirit].