/lit/ - Literature

>>11768697
5/6

>i think the problem why it isnt happening anywhere in governments or culture right now is because of the bureaucratization of politics and the binarism of the metapolitics we are in. They are all too structured, they dont allow for human responses to stuff. You either have to kill all jews or are required to love jews, there's no context allowed, its all a preprinted form to be filled in, mark an X in the correct option, write your age here, occupation there. The problem is the way in which we address these things, the language we have: the issue is we are trapped within the text.

i agree with this. and that is why there is this constant need to *escape,* to look for new markets, because it means avoiding recognition of the vicious circles in which we are trapped. but, back to heidegger here: the question is not of escaping the circle, but coming into it in the right way. there is something hysterical about our need to continue producing and consuming, and D&G tapped into what it was: the fundamentally schizoid character of the unconscious, the need to territorialize, to deterritorialize and reterritorialize. freudo-marxism is exceptionally good at criticizing the fruits of these territorializations, but D&G get to the core of the process itself. and we wind up with the mythos of a culture. and you can’t *profitably* decline this. negativity *for profit* is commensurate with virtue-signaling.

>this is very foucaultian and i kinda agree, but i dont believe large scale repression of this kind can last, it historically never has, unless of course you consider history a prison
the nice thing about prisons is that they offer a simplified model of *government,* with nice and easy divisions between things. radical ideology has an abhorrence for situations of ambiguity, which is to say, *life.* we *like* binaries because they are simple and easy to understand. sometimes they’re even true. but my thing is in the shift from alterity to mimesis, from *difference* to *similarity.* that’s the basic hinge. it’s why *trust* is the central component. as long as we are still beholden to the masters of suspicion all of this will only get worse and more incendiary.

but you can’t *legislate* trust. you can’t order people to trust each other for the same reasons lacan says that you can’t demand enjoyment. as soon as you do this, the enjoyment vanishes. mutualism can only emerge out of understanding, out of a context in which people can exchange ideas in an atmosphere of relative harmony. this of course is what is desired by every safe-space architect, but it only produces echo chambers radically hostile to anything but the ideology under review. probably my own desires and feelings about this stuff would in the end be consigned to the same fate, i don’t know.

>>11665248
>Shapiro/Crowder/Peterson
kill me now

for the shortlist of 21C equivalents i would cheat and say a late reception of deleuze and guattari by way of plant + land and others.

no doubt also computer science and evolutionary biology guys not yet born.

>>11656489
maybe not. those two guys are pretty gigantic. but they never met in person either. and we really don't know what nietzsche would have made of heidegger.

posting the obligatory

>>11594000
agreed. if anything, horror is a corrosive against cynicism. with landian stuff, of course, you don't really come away feeling that you have anything to put your new sense of idealism *in* but i think that's the point.

my own hope is that since cynicism really seems like an outmoded attitude (and i connect contemporary outrage culture to a form of cynicism, or that the cynicism is only a mask for the rage, which is in turn a mask for the fear of a loss of reality), that a kind of 'piety of thought' is required, although far from the sense in which heidegger intended it. and some belated hope that the feeling of floating in space might incline people to be a little gentler with each other, or sharper with themselves. but that's my own thing i suppose. theology - spinozistic theology included - in general tho seems like a very good thing to think about. fwiw.

>>11594031
this is interesting, can you explain more?

>>11594037
the right wing values emerged out of starting out ultra-left imho. kind of like baudrillard: departing from marx station, end on planet nietzsche. it matters how he got to be where he is now. and it has a lot to do with these guys.

>>11377072
that's what land is tho: a Right-Marxist. he never really gives that up. his contribution to the plot is that capitalism isn't a problem for humans, humans are a problem for capitalism. and the revolution as such isn't communism, it's teleoplexy by way of gnon and artificial selection.

so in a sense he's anti-left, but he's also not completely alt-right either. the marxist stuff stays, but it gets rinsed through these guys and for land comes out on the other side 100% cybernetic.

>>11370975
me too. at first the concepts D&G use seem pretty wild, and then eventually you find yourself wondering how you could have ever seen it any other way. it really does seem like a pretty accurate description of reality, rather than some kind of agitprop or literary fantasy, no matter how face-melting some of the concepts seem on first glance. by the end of it it's hard to see anything other than one big squishy and pulsional world all tangled up in itself. the last chapter of ATP is a mic-drop for the ages:

>We can no longer place the assemblages on a quantitative scale measuring how close or far they are from the plane of consistency. There are different types of abstract machines that overlap in their operations and qualify the assemblages: abstract machines of consistency, singular and mutant, with multiplied connections; abstract machines of stratification that surround the plane of consistency with another plane; and axiomatic or overcoding and abstract machines that perform totalizations, homogenizations, conjunctions of closure. Every abstract machine is linked to other abstract machines, not only because they are inseparably political, economic, scientific, artistic, ecological, cosmic — perceptive, affective, active, thinking, physical, and semiotic — but because their various types are as intertwined as their operations are convergent. Mechanosphere.

>>9812841
>>9812846
>deleuze: everyone can talk about his memories, invent stories, state opinions in language; sometimes he even acquires a beautiful style, which gives him adequate means and makes him an appreciated writer.
>but when it is a matter of digging under the stories, cracking open the opinions and reaching regions without memories, when the self must be destroyed, it is certainly not enough to be a 'great' writer, and the means must forever remain inadequate. style becomes non style, and one's language lets an unknown foreign language escape from it, so that one can reach the limits of language and become something other than a writer.

psychoanalysis & language. nobody *really* knows what the fuck they are talking about. anxiety/guilt/meatbag weirdness makes people say things they don't understand: freudian slips, tics, all the rest. we are governed by forces, drives, all kinds of weird shit. maybe it makes sense to think of it in terms of Oedipus, maybe not. for D&G: mos def not.

so wat do? make something new, go places people hadn't been before. things always seem crazy at first, and then later they aren't. for all kinds of reasons. einstein > newton. copernicus > not copernicus. it's like this. this book is definitely weird, but D&G were a bro-team w/o peer when they found common ground. however unusual guattari's work seems, it was good enough for deleuze; and deleuze was a god-tier metaphysician.

continental theory + psychoanalysis is like doing psychic alchemy. shit is weird. but weirder still imho to keep doing the same thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7n_1zsCVBxw
>tfw you are literally referring to a meme speech made by a psychopathic killer from a videogame to make your points
>tfw this is probably not going to turn out well is it
>tfw

tl;dr start with the greeks

>>9777680
yup. preach that shit senpai

this is why i am presently losing my shit over deleuze. because one immanent/univocal process is the only thing that makes sense
>it's there in leibniz
>& it's there in spinoza
>& it's there in neoplatonism
>& it's there in the tao
>& it's there in girard
>& it's there in heidegger
>& ok motherfucker ok get a fucking grip

the tao is good as a wisdom philosophy that can perhaps grapple with bergsonian ideas of the actual/virtual distinction & so on. the tao always wins. always. western metaphysics is just taking fucking forever to catch up w/laozi sorted out thousands of years ago. it's why i sperg out over the flakiest of new age stuff also.

core distinctions & dualistic mechanisms: the Self/the Other, the Object, all of this - you only *think* you Have To have these things until a fucking next-level sorcerer like deleuze (or whoever) can fucking get *their* heads around *that* process and *articulate* it so that plebtards like me can actually understand it and stop being a fucking minion

none of this is to say that the Problems of Western Civilization are now fixable.
>dem spartans
>dat agoge
>dat league of shadows
>dat underrated batman begins

but yeah, the tao.

>attain the ineffable through compassion for words

check out based maurice merleau-ponty on this:

>thus things are said and are thought by a speech and by a thought which we do not have but which has us. there is said to be a wall between us and others, but it is a wall we build together, each putting his stone in the niche left by the other. even reason's labours presuppose such infinite conversations. all those we have loved, detested, known, or simply glimpsed speak through our voice. no more than space is made of simultaneous points-in-themselves, no more than our duration can sever its adherence to a space of durations, is the communicative world a bundle of parallel consciousnesses. our traces mix and intermingle; they make a single wake of public durations

all glory to the /lit/ mimetosphere as per usual

>>8800619
these guys