/lit/ - Literature

>>19412492
I definitely see how you could come away with that idea, but let me provide some nuance and charity to our position, as a Catholic who rejects works salvation in accordance with Church teaching.

First and foremost, we are ONLY saved by the grace of God. We can never do anything of our own power to be saved - we are utterly helpless to do this by our own works.

Second, we are offered a free gift (grace) of salvation through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross. This is absolutely unearned and unmerited, and the way we receive this gift is through faith in Jesus Christ as the Son of God and saviour of all mankind, faith that His sacrifice has once-and-for-all conquered death and sin.

Now here is the nuance - all ancient Christian churches, and many Protestant denominations, believe that we accept that free gift of salvation by faith THROUGH the sacrament of baptism - that baptism is a visible sign that an invisible grace is being conveyed, namely remission of sins through being baptized into the death of Christ. If we love and accept Jesus Christ, we will do what He tells us to do - for "He that has [Jesus'] commandments, and keeps them, he it is that loves me", and Jesus clearly commands all believers to be baptized, when He says "Go, therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit". Note that He is saying that to make disciples of the nations, the apostles are to baptize them in the Trinitarian formula. Thus, Peter says "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit". And later he says, "In the ark a few people, only eight souls, were saved through water. And this water symbolizes the baptism that now saves you also — not the removal of dirt from the body, but the pledge off a clear conscience toward God—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ".

Now, just as the Protestants who accept baptismal regeneration will affirm that baptism is NOT a work of ones own power which saves them, we ancient Christians believe that being forgiven of our mortal sins occurring after our initial justification is NOT a work of our own which saves us, but is rather the grace of God, as is baptism. We believe this because the ancient teaching of the Church is that one can lose their salvation - they can be "cut off", as the Jews were cut off. Paul says: "[The Jews] were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off". Paul is clear - IF you do not continue in God's kindness, THEN you will be cut off from salvation, even as the Jews were.

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>aerial tollhouses

Explain yourselves, orthoshits

>>18732767

Every single Saint that has taught on the soul after death is unanimous on the so-called "Toll-houses". Here is just one example, from St John Maximovitch, a Saint that all Orthodoxy recognises, and who was so holy that he walked through walls to give people holy communion, and healed: https://www.orthodox.net/articles/life-after-death-john-maximovitch.html

If you want the most thorough treatment on this topic, just get this book and read it. Even just the intro, with all the references to scripture, is enough to completely seal the case: https://stanthonysmonastery.org/products/the-departure-of-the-soul

The idea that the toll houses were not a patristic doctrine was the sole invention of Lazar Puhalo, an insane rambler who also denies the accuracy of scripture, believes in evolution, and is pro-LGBT.

I've even read Lazar Puhalo's book, "The Soul, The Body, and Death" where he tries to explain how the toll houses are a "gnostic, heretical" doctrine. There are countless errors, of even the most basic scholarly kind (references to the wrong documents) - but the worst errors are where he misquotes the Fathers and takes them out of context. One key example, is that he quotes a homily of St. John Chrysostom, saying "The souls of the dead do not travel outside of their bodies", but ignores that he was saying this in the context of refuting a pagan myth in his time that the souls of the dead become demons and haunt the living after their die.

The "Departure of the Soul" book also offers an extensive and heavy refutation of Puhalo's writings.

TL;DR, So-called 'tollhouses' are patristic, and the Saints are unanimous on them.