/lit/ - Literature

>>17564476
God loved you so much that he became a human being, suffered, and died so that you could be drawn into the divine life of love for eternity

Christianity

>>17524791
I can go into more detail if you want, but God's inmost nature is love (between the persons of the Trinity and demonstrated in God's willingness to become a human being and suffer torture and death for the sake of his people). Salvation consists in coming into perfect communion with God, participating fully in this divine life of love.

Faith, hope, and love (or charity) are theological virtues, given by God's grace to help us grow closer to God. As the chapter explains, right now on this earth we see God "through a mirror, dimly" but in the world to come we will see God face to face. Faith and hope are virtues that enable us to see God in this dim, earthly way- we have faith in his promises and hope that we will be saved (among other uses of those words). But love is greater than these because it is eternal- we love others now and we love God now, and in the world to come we will love God eternally. But when we see God face to face, there is no longer any need for faith or hope- they are fulfilled in love when we have the immediate knowledge of God in the beatific vision.

Basically, faith and hope help us along life's journey. Love does that too, but when we are saved and drawn up fully into the divine life of love between the Father and the Son through the Spirit, we will no longer need faith and hope because we will be entirely in love.

>>17515964
Agreed, brother. I respect the piety and zeal of many Muslims but the Holy Trinity and Incarnation of God in Jesus fundamentally separate our traditions. I can offer a defense and explanation of the Trinity if needed but of course I doubt you will find it persuasive, just as I do not find Muslim beliefs persuasive.

It's interesting that you mention how God may "only be known through his divine names." For Christians, the human person of Jesus is the unique revelation of God (not the text of the Bible or any doctrinal system but a human being). God's very being is revealed through the life, ministry, death, and (we believe) resurrection of Jesus- God's essential nature is loving (ties into the Trinity as with Augustine's description of the interior love between the 3 persons), and his love for humanity is shown in his willingness to suffer and die- "for the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life a ransom for many" (Matt 20:28). God's nature is not, fundamentally, ineffable to us because God reveals himself by taking on our flesh in Jesus, bridging this divide between God and humanity through Christ- as Paul says, Christ is "the image of the invisible God" who reveals the nature of God by his total self-sacrifice. God's inmost nature is love (1 John).

This is the same idea Paul explains in Philippians 2. We should imitate the loving service and sacrifice of Jesus, who:

though he was in the form of God,
did not regard equality with God
as something to be exploited,
but emptied himself,
taking the form of a slave,
being born in human likeness.
And being found in human form,
he humbled himself
and became obedient to the point of death—
even death on a cross.

Hello orthodox brothers. I am an Anglican Christian and theology student currently considering conversion to either Roman Catholicism or Orthodoxy. My question is to what degree you think this decision in critical. Particularly on the Internet there are lots of trad memers on both sides who claim that only the western or eastern church is legitimate and that the other is completely apostate. To me the divisions, while real enough, seem relatively minor compared to the current state of evil in the world, and I have found great spiritual wisdom in the writings of men from both churches, both from before the schism and after- Gregory of Nyssa, Basil the Great, Athanasius, Pseudo-Dionysius, Augustine, Aquinas, Bonaventure, Rose, Kallistos Ware, Julian of Norwich, etc. It seems difficult to believe that either branch of the church is spiritually dead or schismatic, and so the choice between them strikes me as more one of preference or availability than necessity

Muslimbro, your thread was deleted, but I have a few good-faith questions as a Christian for you. I am not particularly interested in Islam but would like to know more about what you believe.

1. You seem to reject the Trinity because it is not (fully ) explainable through human reason. But why should we expect something as mysterious as the nature of God to be completely intelligible to human beings?

2. How do Muslims answer the problem of evil without a God personally willing to suffer in the flesh for his creation? Again, I'm not sure there is a perfectly rational answer in the Christian tradition that explains why God allows suffering, but it seems very significant that God is not, as it were, merely an outside spectator to the evil in the world- he is willing to experience it himself in solidarity with us. The Muslim God strikes me as more distant from creation than the Christian God because of the lack of an Incarnation.

3. Why should we not eat pork, drink alcohol in moderation, etc? Fasting and abstaining from too much pleasure are very good, but Christians fast because food is good and denying oneself helps one focus on God. Muslim (and Jewish) aversion to certain foods seems to be based in the opposite impulse- it's not because pork is good that we should avoid it but because it is somehow unclean or bad. But God has created the world good and nothing in it is inherently unclean. Or do Muslims not believe this?

4. Are human beings able to come to God without divine aid? I genuinely have no idea what Muslims think on this issue, but it seems based on experience that we are not, that it takes an act of grace and mercy to draw us to him.

Thank you for your time.

>>16974558
I was pleasantly surprised by the literary qualities of the Quran. Not a perfect piece of literature by any means but an excellent read, well worth the time of anyone who enjoys that sort of thing. The definitive scripture rankings as far as pure literary quality go is:

>Old Testament
>New Testament
>Vedas
>Quran
POWER GAP
>Dhammapada
POWER GAP
>Book of Mormon

>>16963332
So Jesus told them this parable: “Which one of you, having a hundred sheep and losing one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness and go after the one that is lost until he finds it? When he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders and rejoices. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep that was lost.’ Just so, I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance.

>>16725722
People often discount Lewis as pop theology or whatever, but Mere Christianity is an excellent place to start to get a basic grounding in what Christians believe and some intro arguments as to why they believe it. Chesterton is similar. I would also add Thomas Merton and Seraphim Rose. Lots of other good answers have already been mentioned- Augustine's Confessions is timeless, particularly as his experiences may in some ways mirror your own. Other patristic authors may be good as well; John Chrysostom's sermons aren't too technical and I think they give a good sense of how Christian faith and life should intersect. Kierkegaard is wonderful, although his views are not quite representative of most historic forms of Christianity. N.T. is great, too. As far as the Bible goes, you certainly can't go wrong, but I would suggest reading the Gospels (Luke in particular) and prophets (Isaiah is a good place to start, but also Amos, Micah, and Jeremiah). Romans or Galatians are also well worth reading. Other Biblical books, while very rewarding, may not be ideal places to start.

Do you find that your issues with Christianity are primarily intellectual, spiritual, or something else? That is, are you stuck on something like the existence or goodness of God or the historical claims of Christianity, or is it more that you don't feel the presence of God or can't quite bring yourself to believe in the Resurrection, no matter what you read? I can give more specific recommendations with more info- some books and authors are better on the intellectual side, some are better on the spiritual side. Both the head and the heart must be converted. Spiritual writers like St. Therese of Lisieux and mystics like St. John of the Cross and Gregory of Nyssa (Life of Moses especially) may also be helpful, although I don't know how interested you are in mysticism. I can also suggest some works on Christian history (Diarmand McCollough's general history of the church is a good place to start good), the Bible, or particular denominations if you are inclined towards these subjects

>>16709355
Irenaeus's Against the Heresies is well worth reading in its entirety, but basically he demolishes the Gnostic claim to offer true teaching that contradicts the official, public teaching of the church. The created world is not evil, it is basically good but infected by sin and evil. Salvation does not consist in escaping the material universe but in the redemption of creation through the death and resurrection of Jesus. Unlike the Gnostics, who are divided into many different sects that all teach different things and claim to be the truth, the Christian church teaches the same Gospel everywhere (this is obviously complicated somewhat by the schisms and divisions in Christianity today, but the basic point is still the same: the Gnostics offer a message that's constantly changing, but the Gospel as taught in Scripture and church tradition remains the same)> Christian teaching is public, not secret; anyone can learn about it and judge its validity for himself. It also doesn't make any sense to say Jesus taught some disciples some secret gnosis, since the church of Irenaeus's day (around 180) was really only a few generations removed from the apostles. If they had changed his message, or if Jesus had not entrusted them with the full revelation, someone would have noticed. Instead, apostolic tradition faithfully hands down the teachings of Christ, which are based in love and obedience to God, not in knowledge.

>>16412538
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Should I become a Franciscan, a Trappist, a Jesuit, or a Dominican?

Repent

Isaac said to his father Abraham, ‘Father!’ And he said, ‘Here I am, my son.’ He said, ‘The fire and the wood are here, but where is the lamb for a burnt-offering?’ Abraham said, ‘God himself will provide the lamb for a burnt-offering, my son.’ So the two of them walked on together.

The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and declared, “Here is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

Then I heard what seemed to be the voice of a great multitude, like the sound of many waters and like the sound of mighty thunder-peals, crying out,

‘Hallelujah!
For the Lord our God
the Almighty reigns.
Let us rejoice and exult
and give him the glory,
for the marriage of the Lamb has come,
and his bride has made herself ready;
to her it has been granted to be clothed
with fine linen, bright and pure’—
for the fine linen is the righteous deeds of the saints.

And the angel said to me, ‘Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb.’

For the message about the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written,

“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
and the discernment of the discerning I will thwart.”

Where is the one who is wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, God decided, through the foolishness of our proclamation, to save those who believe. For Jews demand signs and Greeks desire wisdom, but we proclaim Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those who are the called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For God’s foolishness is wiser than human wisdom, and God’s weakness is stronger than human strength.

>>13414833
Imagine actually believing anyone in the NT taught an imminent eschatology. Hard cringe!

>>13367040
Chaste and bread pilled

>>12731816
Jesus continued: “There was a man who had two sons. The younger one said to his father, ‘Father, give me my share of the estate.’ So he divided his property between them.

“Not long after that, the younger son got together all he had, set off for a distant country and there squandered his wealth in wild living. After he had spent everything, there was a severe famine in that whole country, and he began to be in need. So he went and hired himself out to a citizen of that country, who sent him to his fields to feed pigs. He longed to fill his stomach with the pods that the pigs were eating, but no one gave him anything.

“When he came to his senses, he said, ‘How many of my father’s hired servants have food to spare, and here I am starving to death! I will set out and go back to my father and say to him: Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me like one of your hired servants.’ So he got up and went to his father.

“But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and was filled with compassion for him; he ran to his son, threw his arms around him and kissed him.

“The son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.’

“But the father said to his servants, ‘Quick! Bring the best robe and put it on him. Put a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet. Bring the fattened calf and kill it. Let’s have a feast and celebrate. For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’ So they began to celebrate.

“Meanwhile, the older son was in the field. When he came near the house, he heard music and dancing. So he called one of the servants and asked him what was going on. ‘Your brother has come,’ he replied, ‘and your father has killed the fattened calf because he has him back safe and sound.’

“The older brother became angry and refused to go in. So his father went out and pleaded with him. But he answered his father, ‘Look! All these years I’ve been slaving for you and never disobeyed your orders. Yet you never gave me even a young goat so I could celebrate with my friends. But when this son of yours who has squandered your property with prostitutes comes home, you kill the fattened calf for him!’

“‘My son,’ the father said, ‘you are always with me, and everything I have is yours. But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’”

>>11743396
You're not alone anon. But as others have suggested, read the Death of Ivan Ilych

Mary had a little lamb
His death for all sufficient.
But only those who will believe
Will find his death efficient.

Mary had a little lamb
Eternally begot.
For contra Arius, there was
No time when he was not.

Mary had a little lamb
His death for all sufficient.
But only those who do believe
Will find his death sufficient.

Mary had a little lamb
Eternally begot.
For contra Arius, there was
No time when he was not.

Mary had a little Lamb
His death for all sufficient.
But only those who will believe
Will find His death sufficient.

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