/lit/ - Literature

>>22801692
>They've failed all their "original objectives" having degraded the enemy militarily and annexed four oblasts? ... Ukraine will barely be a country when it's done.
That may be true, but Ukraine is historically part of their sphere anyways according to the Russian government's own logic, so Ukraine being destroyed is, from this perspective, part of the ongoing destruction of the former Russian empire. It's self-contradictory in that way and also mutually destructive. It seems the result will be that both Russia and Ukraine lose a lot, Europe loses some but not as much, and the U.S. and China gain a little.

>Gas station is the exact shit they were saying before all this.
True. Russia is not just a gas station, it has a big military which is a lot of capability with the political will to invade Ukraine. That counts for a lot more than the gas station down the street from my house. I agree with the other anon that Russia is in long-term decline. A lot of numbers for them particularly the mortality rate for men are pretty shocking, much worse than the U.S. or China.

>>22801715
>Russia has layed out time and time again that they wont accept Ukraine being in NATO but the west went for it anyway, it is unacceptable for their national security.
From their perspective, you're right. But part of the problem is that the end result makes that outcome permanent anyways. I remember Kissinger getting some love from people sympathetic the Russian position on this because he said it would wise for Ukraine to make peace and give Russia the eastern territories and then Ukraine would be neutral. But they didn't show the same love when he later said that Ukraine should now join NATO because the ship has sailed basically. Also I think part of the fact -- or among the changing facts on the ground -- is that a significant amount of Russian military capability has been destroyed (even if Russia is holding onto some territory). There's also the Ukrainian position to consider, because as a matter of fact, they do still control most of the country.

Point is, strategic mistakes can accelerate outcomes you don't want. Saddam once thought Kuwait was part of Iraq and then he did a stupid thing.

>>22801729
>Americas unstable service economy is also unsustainable, it cant last as it is
Sure, and I have some problems with it. But the U.S. is the second industrial power in the world along with China and it has an enormous domestic market. It produces more natural gas than Russia and more oil than Saudi Arabia. Don't assume the U.S. can't build stuff. It does have problems here, to be sure, but the U.S. is actually much less reliant on international trade than many countries which is why Trump could get away with a lot of his schemes I think.