/lit/ - Literature

Since there is a lot of argument with Protestants in these threads I will tell you all something, assuming that you actually want to convert these people rather than rail at them in an argument. The latter serves only to buttress your own pride and does not serve Christ. If you would serve him then your effort should be to bring Protestants into unity with the church. And so the first thing you should do is stop with the "prot"/"prottie" nonsense and other abusive language. Again this serves no one but yourself. If they are abusive to you then rejoice in being insulted for the sake of Christ, who will reward you, and do not return their behavior. If you cannot do this then the only thing your words will do is harden their hearts.

That being said, I will tell you what the best argument against Protestantism is, specially for Protestants who have concern for these matters, for history, and for ensuring they are in possession of the truth. Many think the best argument is the canon, but to most Protestants this simply feels absurd, and to anyone who is educated on the history of the matter, this cannot function as the silver bullet that you think it is. The argument against sola scriptura is similar, and Protestant apologists spend much time formulating defenses of this. Rather the best argument is this: if the Protestant understanding of the gospel is correct, if this is the core of Christian teaching, then how is it that there is no concern for this in the early church? There is no talk of "gospel issues", rather there is dispute over the proper formulation of the trinity, sacramental matters, etc. The things that were of such great import to the early church are of minimal import to the Protestant, and the things which are of great import to the Protestant are apparently of no concern to the early church. How can such a thing be? This is what should be pressed in these discussions.

The primary thing, on a practical level, keeping me from converting to Catholicism or Orthodoxy is the fact that I would have to confess all of my post-baptism sins to a priest. I was seriously considering converting at one point but once I learned this it made me despair and regret having been baptized. I think I could accept the doctrine of confession if I had a clean slate to start with, that is, if I were to enter and be baptized, but that is impossible since both churches would accept my baptism.

>>19531520
Hell is no more than separating yourself from God’s love, so it’s right. The Fathers wrote that God did not create hell. It is a spiritual state of being. They are never cut off from God’s abundant love. To close yourself off as much as possible from the source of all love, beauty, life and goodness cannot be described in any way but a hellish ontological state.

St. Isaac the Syrian-
>Those who are tormented in hell are tormented by the invasion of love. What is there more bitter and violent than the pains of love? Those who feel they have sinned against love bear in themselves a damnation much heavier than the most dreaded punishments. The suffering with which sinning against love afflicts the heart is more keenly felt than any other torment. It is absurd to assume that the sinners in hell are deprived of God’s love. Love is offered impartially. But by its very power it acts in two ways. It torments sinners, as happens here on earth when we are tormented by the presence of a friend to whom we have been unfaithful. And it gives joy to those who have been faithful. That is what the torment of hell is in my opinion: remorse. But love inebriates the souls of the sons and daughters of heaven by its delectability.

>>19487220
Maybe I’m wrong, but you’re still thinking of hell in terms of a physical pit of fire. That’s not hell, as I have already explained to an extent. Maybe a quote from St. Isaac the Syrian will explain better:
>Those who are tormented in hell are tormented by the invasion of love. What is there more bitter and violent than the pains of love? Those who feel they have sinned against love bear in themselves a damnation much heavier than the most dreaded punishments. The suffering with which sinning against love afflicts the heart is more keenly felt than any other torment. It is absurd to assume that the sinners in hell are deprived of God’s love. Love is offered impartially. But by its very power it acts in two ways. It torments sinners, as happens here on earth when we are tormented by the presence of a friend to whom we have been unfaithful. And it gives joy to those who have been faithful. That is what the torment of hell is in my opinion: remorse. But love inebriates the souls of the sons and daughters of heaven by its delectability.

Hell is closing yourself off to God, which is in the power of one’s will, to an extent. It can never be totally closed off, but it can to a great extent if one were to live and act and believe in a certain way.