/lit/ - Literature

>>17335828
>The old world, speaking strictly, knew but one poet, and named him "Homeros." The Greek word "Poietes," which [138] the Latins—unable to translate it—reproduced as" Poeta," recurs most naïvely among the Provençals as "Trouvère," and suggested to our Middle-high Germans the term of "Finder," Gottfried von Strassburg calling the poet of Parzival a "Finder wilder Märe" (" finder of strange tales "). That "poietes "—of whom Plato averred that he had found for the Greeks their gods—would seem to have been preceded by the "Seer," much as the vision of that ecstatic shewed to Dante the way through Hell and Heaven. But the prodigy of the Greeks' sole poet—"the"—seems to have been that he was seer and poet in one; wherefore also they represented him as blind, like Tiresias. Whom the gods meant to see no semblance, but the very essence of the world, they sealed his eyes; that he might open to the sight of mortals that truth which, seated in Plato's figurative cavern with their backs turned outwards, they theretofore could see in nothing but the shadows cast by Show, This poet, as "seer," saw not the actual (das Wirkliche), but the true (das Wahrhaftige), sublime above all actuality; and the fact of his being able to relate it so faithfully to hearkening men that to them it seemed as clear and tangible as anything their hands had ever seized—this turned the Seer to a Poet.

>[...] Whoso should seek to demonstrate the art of Homer, would have as hard a task before him as if he undertook to shew the genesis of a human being by the laborious experiments of some Professor—supramundane, if you will—of Chemistry and Physics. Nevertheless the work of Homer is no unconscious fashioning of Nature's, but something infinitely higher; perhaps, the plainest manifestation of a godlike knowledge of all that lives. Yet Homer was no Artist, but rather all succeeding poets took their art from him, and therefore is he called "the Father of Poetry" (Dichtkunst). All Greek genius is nothing else than an artistic réchauffé (Nachdichtung) of Homer; for purpose of this réchauffé, was first discovered and matured that "Techne" which at last we have raised to a general principle [139] under name of the Art of Poetry, wrongheadedly including in it the "poietes" or "Finder der Märe."

>The old world, speaking strictly, knew but one poet, and named him "Homeros." The Greek word "Poietes," which [138] the Latins—unable to translate it—reproduced as" Poeta," recurs most naïvely among the Provençals as "Trouvère," and suggested to our Middle-high Germans the term of "Finder," Gottfried von Strassburg calling the poet of Parzival a "Finder wilder Märe" (" finder of strange tales "). That "poietes "—of whom Plato averred that he had found for the Greeks their gods—would seem to have been preceded by the "Seer," much as the vision of that ecstatic shewed to Dante the way through Hell and Heaven. But the prodigy of the Greeks' sole poet—"the"—seems to have been that he was seer and poet in one; wherefore also they represented him as blind, like Tiresias. Whom the gods meant to see no semblance, but the very essence of the world, they sealed his eyes; that he might open to the sight of mortals that truth which, seated in Plato's figurative cavern with their backs turned outwards, they theretofore could see in nothing but the shadows cast by Show, This poet, as "seer," saw not the actual (das Wirkliche), but the true (das Wahrhaftige), sublime above all actuality; and the fact of his being able to relate it so faithfully to hearkening men that to them it seemed as clear and tangible as anything their hands had ever seized—this turned the Seer to a Poet.

>[...] Whoso should seek to demonstrate the art of Homer, would have as hard a task before him as if he undertook to shew the genesis of a human being by the laborious experiments of some Professor—supramundane, if you will—of Chemistry and Physics. Nevertheless the work of Homer is no unconscious fashioning of Nature's, but something infinitely higher; perhaps, the plainest manifestation of a godlike knowledge of all that lives. Yet Homer was no Artist, but rather all succeeding poets took their art from him, and therefore is he called "the Father of Poetry" (Dichtkunst). All Greek genius is nothing else than an artistic réchauffé (Nachdichtung) of Homer; for purpose of this réchauffé, was first discovered and matured that "Techne" which at last we have raised to a general principle [139] under name of the Art of Poetry, wrongheadedly including in it the "poietes" or "Finder der Märe."

>openly rips off the Greek tragedians
Bravo Wagner.

>Again, of Beethoven and Mozart Wagner said: “As far as fugues are concerned, these gentlemen can hide their heads before Bach. They played with the form, wanted to show they could do it too, but he showed us the soul of the fugue. He could not do otherwise than write in fugues.”
>“[...] he played me the Fourth Prelude and Fugue (C-sharp minor). Now, I knew what to expect from Liszt at the pianoforte; but from Bach himself, much as I had studied him, I never expected what I learnt that day. For then I saw the difference between study and revelation; through his rendering of this single fugue Liszt revealed the whole of Bach to me, so that I now know of a surety where I am with him, can take his every bearing from this point, and conquer all perplexity and every doubt by power of strong faith.”

>>17019760
>The Greek spirit and all of its artistic productions are merely the re-heating of Homer

>Wagner thought of himself as the greatest playwright since Shakespeare
Was he right?

>>16814613
Wagner threated to beat up his critics, go with that.

>>16736778
There is one.

Why does it feel like Wagner was making the same work of art repeatedly over and better throughout his life?

The moral constellations of the interactions between figures always seems to be the same.

>For this is the essence of true Religion: that, away from the cheating show of the daytide world, it shines in the night of man's inmost heart, with a light quite other than the world-sun's light, and visible nowhence save from out that depth.
- Wagner's "State and Religion."

>I, too, felt driven to this "Whence and Wherefore?" and for long it banned me from the magic of my art. But my time of penance taught me to overcome the question. All doubt at last was taken from me when I gave myself up to the Tristan. Here, in perfect trustfulness, I plunged into the inner depths of soul-events, and from the inmost centre of the world I fearlessly built up its outer form. . . Life and death, the whole import and existence of the outer world, here hang on nothing but the inner movements of the soul. The whole affecting Action comes about for reason only that the inmost soul demands it, and steps to light with the very shape foretokened in the inner shrine.
- The Music of the Future

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Y-xxhBia0s

Today I will remind them that modern literature would not exist without Wagner, here is one example:
>Wagner's endless melody and leitmotif's directly inspire Édouard Dujardin, who founded the Revue Wagnérienne, to transmute it into a literary form as the inner monologue, or stream of consciousness
>also inspired George Moore similarly
>Joyce read's both Dujardin and Moore, and gives full credit of the inner monologue/stream of consciousness to Dujardin, even writing a dedication in Dujardin's French edition of Ulysses, "to the discoverer of interior monologue, from the unrepentant thief!"
>Furthermore Joyce is influenced by Wagner through D'Annunzio, who was after all a pall-bearer of Wagner's coffin(whom Wagner may have met), and included this scene in his novel Il fuoco, a book containing many Wagnerian and Nietzschean ideas
>But also was Joyce influenced directly by Wagner throughout the course of his life, in 1900 at the age of 19 he gave an address entitled "Drama and Life" directly based upon and inspired by Wagner's Hegelian work(which significantly approximated Schopenhauer's artistic theories) The Art-Work of the Future, Joyce's very conception of Drama came from Wagner. In his later works the Wagnerian idea of the "Gesummtkunstwerk" would prove to have an even larger effect, from the minute use of musicality in his words, to the architectural whole of it all, it in many ways literarises Wagner's artistic theories.

And this is just one example of countless others of Wagner's influence.

Today I will remind them that modern literature would not exist without Wagner
>Wagner's endless melody and leitmotif's directly inspire Édouard Dujardin, who founded the Revue Wagnérienne, to transmute it into a literary form as the inner monologue, or stream of consciousness
>also inspired George Moore similarly
>Joyce read's both Dujardin and Moore, and gives full credit of the inner monologue/stream of consciousness to Dujardin, even writing a dedication in Dujardin's French edition of Ulysses, "to the discoverer of interior monologue, from the unrepentant thief!"
>Furthermore Joyce is influenced by Wagner through D'Annunzio, who was after all a pall-bearer of Wagner's coffin(whom Wagner may have met), and included this scene in his novel Il fuoco, a book containing many Wagnerian and Nietzschean ideas
>But also was Joyce influenced directly by Wagner throughout the course of his life, in 1900 at the age of 19 he gave an address entitled "Drama and Life" directly based upon and inspired by Wagner's Hegelian work(which significantly approximated Schopenhauer's artistic theories) The Art-Work of the Future, Joyce's very conception of Drama came from Wagner. In his later works the Wagnerian idea of the "Gesummtkunstwerk" would prove to have an even larger effect, from the use of musicality in his words, to the architectural whole of it all, it in many ways literarises Wagner's artistic theories.

And this is just one example of countless others of Wagner's influence.

One example of how modern literature would not exist without Wagner
>Wagner's endless melody and leitmotif's directly inspire Édouard Dujardin, who founded the Revue Wagnérienne, to transmute it into a literary form as the inner monologue, or stream of consciousness
>also inspired George Moore similarly
>Joyce read's both Dujardin and Moore, and gives full credit of the inner monologue/stream of consciousness to Dujardin, even writing a dedication in Dujardin's French edition of Ulysses, "to the discoverer of interior monologue, from the unrepentant thief!"
>Furthermore Joyce is influenced by Wagner through D'Annunzio, who was after all a pall-bearer of Wagner's coffin(whom Wagner may have met), and included this scene in his novel Il fuoco, a book containing many Wagnerian and Nietzschean ideas
>But also was Joyce influenced directly by Wagner throughout the course of his life, in 1900 at the age of 19 he gave an address entitled "Drama and Life" directly based upon and inspired by Wagner's Hegelian work(which significantly approximated Schopenhauer's artistic theories) The Art-Work of the Future, Joyce's very conception of Drama came from Wagner. In his later works the Wagnerian idea of the "Gesummtkunstwerk" would prove to have an even larger effect, from the use of musicality in his words, to the architectural whole of it all, it in many ways literarises Wagner's artistic theories.

Taking into consideration this example and countless others of Wagner's influence, one may say that modern literature would barely exist without Wagner.

But one example
>Wagner's endless melody and leitmotif's directly inspire Édouard Dujardin, who founded the Revue Wagnérienne, to transmute it into a literary form as the inner monologue, or stream of consciousness
>also inspired George Moore similarly
>Joyce read's both Dujardin and Moore, and gives full credit of the inner monologue/stream of consciousness to Dujardin, even writing a dedication in Dujardin's French edition of Ulysses, "to the discoverer of interior monologue, from the unrepentant thief!"
>Furthermore Joyce is influenced by Wagner through D'Annunzio, who was after all a pall-bearer of Wagner's coffin(whom Wagner may have met), and included this scene in his novel Il fuoco, a book containing many Wagnerian and Nietzschean ideas
>But also was Joyce influenced directly by Wagner throughout the course of his life, in 1900 at the age of 19 he gave an address entitled "Drama and Life" directly based upon and inspired by Wagner's Hegelian work(which significantly approximated Schopenhauer's artistic theories) The Art-Work of the Future, Joyce's very conception of Drama came from Wagner (passages comparing the two works I will post). In his later works the Wagnerian idea of the "Gesummtkunstwerk" would prove to have an even larger effect, such as the musicality in the words, or the architectural whole of it all, as it in many ways literarises Wagner's artistic theories.

Taking into consideration this example and countless others of Wagner's influence, one may go as far to say that modern literature would be a shadow of itself without Wagner.

What do you think of the writings of Richard Wagner?

>>16172752
ahem

>>14293095
reminder that Wagner surprassed Tolkien even before he was born

Are there any books that talk about the decline of art?

Anyone read this man's essays? Are they worthwhile, do they provide any decent insights into artistic theory?