/lit/ - Literature

>>23063718
Well a lot of the time on here I'm debating with people who deny that any sort of homosexuality existed at all. Worth noting that pederasty was not only between men and teenage boys, but could be between older men and young adults (pic related). I believe stoic texts refer to eromenoi as old as 22.

>>23043775
>If you characterize anyone that disagrees with you or the demonstrably incorrect myths of the academics then you are not open to reason at all. You can
I am myself right-wing but the guy is a grifter and has an agenda to push.
>You also blatantly ignore the illegality of male-on-male homosexual relations
Where is the illegality?
>and the fact that male-male homosexual relations besides rape of slaves was the exclusive domain of pedophilia
It is true that there was an age gap, however it cannot have been pedophilic all the time, considering pic related is a depiction of Harmodius and Aristogeiton (and I cannot imagine small boys being part of an effective Theban fighting force)

>>21505401
i think pic related fits my definition of youth

>>21505294
Prepubescent boys were off-limits. Pic related, a prototypical pederastic couple, Harmodius and Aristogeiton. Note the adult height and musculature of the younger partner. And, not that I think it's a bad thing, but the taboo against fucking people significantly younger than you is relatively recent. It seems too radical to say that perhaps the majority of pre-modern relationships, or that a relationship between an 18 and a 25 year old, is 'rape'. It robs the word of meaningful content. Status unequal and power imbalanced, yes. Rape, no.

>>20474519
>>20475380
>>20475396
>>20475416
>>20475497
The Greeks constantly describe pederasty as a unique and commonplace feature of their culture (Herodotus claims that the Persians learned it from the Greeks), and the literary and archaeological evidence bears this out. Plato, even though he disapproves of homosexuality, depicts social reality by showing many of his dialogue characters in homosexual relationships -- and uses pederasty as the basis for his entire theory of love and knowledge transmission. Most of the famous lyric poets from the Archaic era wrote pederastic poetry. Many of the most famous dramatists and comedians either wrote about pederastic relationships at some point (Aeschylus, Aristophanes) or were involved in them themselves (Sophocles, Euripides). Numerous philosophers were (most notably Socrates and Zeno the founder of stoicism). Alcibiades seduced men and women alike. The Spartan king Agesilaus II was both an younger and an older partner in different pederastic relationships. The Greeks built statues to male lover pairs like Harmodius and Aristogeiton (pic related, which are famous enough to be mentioned multiple times in Thucydides, Plato, Aristophanes, etc) and considered Achilles and Patroclus to have been lovers, and attributed same-sex sexual interest to their gods (Zeus, Apollo, etc.)