/lit/ - Literature

What does it take for a fantasy book to rise from being considered YA trash to proper literature?

Is Tolkien underrated as a figure in literature because of the endless streams of bullshit genre fiction he spawned?
I was thinking about this last night from the standpoint of someone who really only reads literary fiction.
The world he created is unrivaled by any one man in the history of fiction. Nothing comes even close to what he managed to create in his lifetime.
In general, I think writing fantasy might be easier than writing realistic literary fiction, simply because the parameters in which you must operate are very strict. But Tolkien managed to build a mythology for a world in such depth that it feels real almost.
He also managed to do all this while being an above average writer, technically speaking.

The younger me cheered at the determined, quiet strength of Aragorn; the proud, balanced elegance of Legolas; Eowyn's courage; Faramir's devoted, silent love (for his brother and his father). Out of all of them, Samwise Gamgee, emerged unbowed and unchanged. Merry and Pippin became involved in politics and central to events both inside and outside The Shire. They married and had families. Frodo retreated to Hobbiton and wrote his book and suffered PTSD. Samwise returned home to the same home, same job and lived the life he always expected to live. Nothing bigger. Nothing smaller. That Magnificent Bastard!

>he always wanted to finish the Silmarillion
He started it in 1914, it was unfinished as late as 1973
>he had to write the hobbit and lord of the rings
he was alive for 18 years after the lord of the rings ended and still didn't finish it.
>most of it was finished
Then why didn't he finish it? The three great tales were already almost finished and he still didn't do it. There was plenty of room to add more detail. Does he enjoy making lists of names more than crafting a character?

It's because the silmarillion was originally sketched by young cool Tolkien in his 20's which is why it's so grand and action packed. Old Tolkien became autistically fixated on nature and stupid minor things and just didn't want to do anything that wasn't smoking or metaphysical musings that went nowhere. He probably hated adult lotr fans who were the smelly otaku's of their time and didn't want to give them anything.

Why hasn't anyone surpassed Tolkein? What does he have that fantasy writers since then don't?

>Develops PTSD
>Copes by spending the rest of your life crafting a massive medieval legendary world with entire languages, histories, pantheons, and made up races

Why are British catholics so much better than british protestants? Same with germans and dutch

>>14349831
Language is hard. This was maybe my answer to Martin, whom, as much as I admire him, I do quibble with. A Song of Ice and Fire had a very modern philosophy: that if the king was a good man, he would get his dick chopped off. We look at history and it’s not that simple. Martin can say that Bran became king and reigned for a hundred years, and he was wise and good. But Martin doesn’t ask the question: How was High Valyrian conjugated? Does the pluperfect tense of Bravosi derive from the suffix? How did dragons understand the verb “dracarys”? And what about all those lost Westerosi languages? By the end of the war, the Night King is gone but all of the autists aren’t gone – they’re in the Godswood, watching beautiful sisters be beautifully raped. Did Bran pursue a policy of monolingualism and kill all other languages? Even the little baby dialects in their little dialect regions?

>>13967515
>but anon, you have some great painters
>Signature on the painting is in Polish
Top kek

why hasn't Tolkien been surpassed yet? Fantasy is still, like 80 years later, stuck using his conventions and character molds.

Was he just too good?

When did you grow out of literary fiction and realize it's all pretentious twaddle for midwits?

Me? I was 23 and I now read books for the plot and characters.

Was he a crypto-pagan?

Was is brain different or was it the wacky herbs?

>>10019169

why are there no black hobbits?

Who else here has patrician parents? My Dad is pretty patrician.

>studied english and philosophy at Harvard and Oxford, near the top of his class
>was an philosophy professor
>has some stuff published about modal logic that I can barely understand
>concert pianist, also plays the cello for fun
>favorite book is The Man Without Qualities
>speaks 5 languages
>can perform smoke tricks with an old english pipe almost on the level of gandalf

On the other hand, I'm a dumbass who can't do shit, spending all of my time on this fucking hentai board

Does anyone's world-building compare to his?

What are some good public domain novels to read?

What's some good gothic literature? I liked Frankenstein, Wuthering Heights and Poe.

What is the difference between genre fantasy and literary works with heavy paranormal/fantastical elements?

Daily reminder to make a new language

DUDE EAGLES LMAO

>Tolkien fans rejoice! The Lord of the Rings author's estate will soon release a 100-year-old manuscript that was never before released to the public. Titled The Story of Kullervo, the work is one of Tolkien's earliest efforts, and helped lay the foundation for the stories he'd tell about Middle Earth throughout his career.

>Tolkien started Kullervo in 1914, during his college days at Oxford University. The tale, which follows the tragic story of an orphan cursed with supernatural powers, is based on the Finnish epic poem The Kalevala, and though he never finished it in his lifetime, he used this work as a basis for his own stories and languages:

>"The germ of my attempt to write legends of my own to fit my private languages was the tragic tale of the hapless Kullervo in the Finnish Kalevala. It remains a major matter in the legends of the First Age (which I hope to publish as The Silmarillion)"
>Though this is the first time Kullervo is being made available for public consumption, the manuscript was originally published in 2010 by author and Tolkien scholar Verlyn Flieger in Tolkien Studies: Volume 7. The Story of Kullervo, complete with notes and supplementary essays,will hit bookstores in the UK on August 27th. It'll be available in America on October 27th.

http://www.theverge.com/2015/8/10/9127969/tolkien-story-of-kullervo-publish-unfinished-story