/lit/ - Literature

>>21706884
Start with the Greeks. Tip: being a good person and being good to others, at least according to them, is literally the most advantageous way to live. So ironically it's in your best and most selfish interest to become virtuous.

Why don't normalfags care about philosophy or literature?

I have decided to work my way through Plato’s works. What are the best secondary sources (books, lectures, podcasts et cetera) that I can supplement my reading with?

>>17862266
Plato had forgotten lectures that are only described in the writings of his students that attended them in person. Plato said that he would never put the ultimate truth in writing.
The topic of the secret lectures is known to be a description of the final nature of the numbers. The essence of the numerals 1, 2, 3 etc.
This meaning of this can be derived through his famous theory of forms.
Plato talked of the realm of forms, of cupness, of tableness etc.
But to follow this notion to it's logical conclusion means that there are also forms of abstract concepts. The mind itself must have a root location in the realm of forms. A mindness, a conciousness-ness. Even time and space would have a root location in the realm of forms.

Above that level, to reach for an even higher level of abstraction than these, there can only be one final supreme concept. Something from which all forms recieve their form.
This would be described as 'Formness.'
Formness would give all sub forms their form. It is the final singularity, the supreme origin of forms. This would truly be 'The One'. It gives itself a form, it exists through self evidence.

Returning to Plato's description of numbers being used to explain his ultimate truth -
The form of forms - 'Formness' - is the zero numeral - 0. Or it would also make sense to use the infinty symbol ∞.
Through self awarness, Formness creates it's own existence in a self sustaining loop of infinite energy - It allows the perpetual motion and self sustenance of the universe, which is itself.
The self awareness of Formness, 'looking at itself in the mirror' creates a form of the form.
This is going from 0 to now having 0 + 0.
There was 1 numeral, now there is 2.
You have the original 0, now you have 0 + 0. There is now actually three 0 numerals in the sentence, so 2 has become 3, and so on and son etc etc till you have all of the numerals.
0 is infinite Formness
1 is the universe
2 is time and space - Time derives infinite energy from Formness to move forward with eternal motion, eternally renewing the universe - Space is granted infinite energy from Formness to give shape to the universe, eternally sustaining it's existence
The remaining numerals are everything contained within the universe

Consciousness is self awarness, rooted somehow in the original self sustaining, self aware 0 of Formness.
Your mind is somehow able to 'Look at itself in the mirror' - and your mind is actually the substance of that same mirror. You are looking at yourself within yourself.
Ultimately, when discussing things at this level, the meaning of symbols and words begins to disintegrate to some degree, due to the low fidelity of the material plane in contrast to the higher planes of knowledge, spirit, and forms.
All that remains when understanding the value of the ultimate truth is the significance of self awarness, and that Plato's realm of forms reduces down to a final ultimate form of 'Formness'.

>>16812455
This
There's a reason he's pointing up

>anticipates Nietzsche's idea of justice by more than 2000 years
>demolishes it
>doesn't even spend an entire dialogue destroying it, just dispenses with it quickly in Book 1 of the Republic

Plato is awesome.

>>12794428
We can rumple up all of modern philosophy and throw it in the trash, where it belongs.

>>12417340
>tfw Plato is both the first and the final boss of philosophy

But then, anyone who's read enough Plato already knew that.

>tfw we still haven't solved the Problem of Universals

Did philosophy ever "work" on you, /lit/? It seems like philosophy is mostly studied as an addendum to general knowledge. But who here has actually taken a philosophy from the Western Canon and applied it?

I for one take Plato's formulation of the soul very seriously. I genuinely think that his vision of justice in the soul--with a harmony between the reason, the spirit, and the appetites--can be applied to any person, and should be striven for if you happen to be in a normal, non-aberrant state of mind.

Has anyone here ever tried to apply the notions of justice from the Republic to their own state of mind?

After all, Plato ultimately says that justice is an order of the soul, in which reason is the commander of things and rules over the spirit and the appetites. He claims that this is what a "rightly ordered" soul looks like, and that this is why the just man is the happiest man of all. Unjust men may have more wealth, and more possessions, and more reputation, but they aren't at peace like the just man is, and this ultimately makes them miserable.

Anyone ever actually tried to make that happen in real life?

Plato will teach you all you need to know about why democracy is a bad idea. Remember, a democracy put Socrates to death.

Do you know why Nietzsche hated Plato? It's because Plato anticipated him thousands of years ago and refuted most of his major points.

Reminder that Plato anticipates Nietzsche by millennia in the character of Thrasymachus, only for Socrates to destroy him in a brief argument. And, as if that weren't enough, Thrasymachus' argument is strengthened and amplified by Glaucon and Adiemantus, and Socrates STILL refutes it, though this takes longer to do.

No real philosopher would shill shitty products to make a quick buck. You didn't see Plato or Aquinas or Nietzsche hawking knick-knacks and furniture.

Unlike with science, it's possible for old philosophers to be more correct than newer philosophers. I consider Plato's metaphysics more correct than Kant's metaphysics, for example.

The Republic changed my life when I read it as a 19-year-old.

Reading the Republic for the first time as an undergrad blew my fucking mind. I think I'm still a Platonist in my heart of hearts.

>>10126620
If it's a "quirk" of anything it's a quirk of the human mind. We seem to notice, even without categories, that there are categories of things. Think of how a baby or an African gray parrot can recognize multiple things of the same color.

Also, >>10126873 is right. There is really no way to disprove the existence of abstract universals. It's not out of the question that Plato's Forms exist, really, considering they're defined as being immaterial.

What if Socrates believed in life after death, the immortality of the soul? Plato puts those words in his mouth in the Republic, and so there's a chance that that's just Socrates-as-mouthpiece talking. But what if that was a genuine belief of Socrates'? What if he believed his spirit would live on after he was executed? It might explain his willingness to die.

>>9980979
Who the fuck do you think?

The Republic. I read it in a Great Books class my freshman year of college and was never the same.

>>9925214
>conservatism is somewhat dependant on Christianity
Stop.

>>9910064
>"had to use" discourse
It's the art of his work to put it into dialogue context man. His ideas were just as legit as anyone's and in an interesting format why hate?