/lit/ - Literature

>>22466209
>>22466209
>I've never met or even heard of a single trans person who has completely abandoned traditional gender norms (if such a thing is even possible
Picrel is a trans guy, snd also a femboy, not upholding traditional gender norms. There are other people like that
>Trans people just want to express a different one to the one they grew up expressing
They want to free themselves from the gender they grew up expressing, that does not imply that they want to fit neatly into the other box. For example a trans man may or may not want to have breast, or a trans woman may or may not want to have a penis. It is not adopting a social gender role. Just being accepted as the gender they are, without necessarily having to follow the roles for that gender. For example, picrel wants to be treated like a man, but will not conform to the roles that are placed on men you can be part of a group while also going against its rules, it will just be interpreted as a subversion of said rules.
>>22466222
They don't get those surgeries or behave how they do because they think it will make them more of that gender. They are always that gender, prior to doing any change. And even if they didn't get any of those changes they wouldnt stop being their gender. It is just a personal choice, some people suffer from extreme distress over certain parts of their body so they change it, you don't have to be trans to do it, and doing it isn't making you any more of that gender, it will aleviate the distress. For example, phalloplasty was made for cis soldiers eho lost their dicks, they didnt stop being men when they had no dick, but they chose to get a new dick to stop the distress

>>22074556
>decided to call himself a woman without altering anything about his presentation of himself, would he be one?
he is not trans, he is cis. so no. idk why you think this is a gotcha.
>Why did someone like Elliot Page cut off her breasts if not under the desire to conform to her image of a man
because he wanted to? many trans men don't get surgery and are still men
> If transgenderism is so liberating from gender reinforcement, why not keep being exactly as they are
because you prefer to not be dysphoric rather than being dysphoric. body changes are for the wellbeing of the person, not to validate the gender of the person since thy are already valid. if anything it is transphobes who think you can't be a man and have breasts that pressure trans men into surgery when they may have been fine with them,
>Why are there so few - if any! - trans-identified person who act like my hypothetical Jordan Peterson?
because jordan peterson is cis and has no dysphoria over his body or social role, while trans people do have dysphoria over those usually
>
The answer is obvious. They alter themselves consciously seeking to fit the stereotype of the other sex.
nope, femboy trans men exist, butch trans women exist. you haven't interacted with enough trans people. picrel is a ftm femboy