/lit/ - Literature

>>5431041

Well thats not quite fair.

Wittgenstein wrote and published the Tractatus (TLP) in his life time. After that he spent around 3 decades writing material, giving lectures, and chairing Cambridges philosophy department. When he died he left behind his notes to his students with the understanding they would be publishing books like Philosophical Investigations (as well as ~10 less popular books).

So its not fair to say Philosophical Investigations isnt his. He wrote it with the understanding that it would be published after his life time.

>>5431106

Yeah I dont know what to say. Its really good philosophy. I think Wittgenstein, uniquely from his peers like Russell, Frege, and Kripke, had a really strong philosophical sense. So Russell and Frege for example I think were brilliant, but their philosophy was kind of confused and foolish.

>>5431126
>Quine

I dont really like Quine, but Ive enjoyed seeing how many books begin by quoting Quine and then criticizing him. There is like a whole class of philosophers who make a positive contribution by being profoundly wrong.

>>5430160

I'd like to talk about On Sense and Reference. I figure it could be an after hour thing. I re-read On Sense and Reference so I have some notes to go over. I guess we will see if anyone red On Sense and Reference.

By 'tomorrow', I mean 'sunday'.

>>5430075

Hey man,

Yeah here is the paste bin of last meeting.

http://pastebin.com/GzQdxsan

Hey /lit/

Tomorrow at 6pm GMT (11am Arizona time) our Wittgenstein reading group is meeting up in irc.freenode #4chanWittgenstein. This week we are talking about Wittgenstein's On Certainty, sections 101-250

Hey /lit/

We had the first meeting of our Wittgenstein reading group yesterday. It went pretty well, here is the chat log: http://pastebin.com/GzQdxsan..

We are going to move right along into meeting 2 this sunday at 6pm GMT in the IRC channel #4chanWittgenstein. The reading this week is sections 101 - 250 of Wittgenstein's On Certainty. Optional reading is 'On Sense and Reference' by Frege.

Our structure last last meeting was pretty free form. In this upcoming meeting we are going to make it a bit more formal with an agenda. If you have any items youd like to add to the agenda (like a section of On Certainty you found interesting) just email me.

>>5398545

Libgen

http://libgen.org/book/index.php?md5=EA8DFCC83912DC07F42BD015E0D1F912

Hey guys,

One last notice that tomorrow is the first meeting of our Wittgenstein reading group. We are meeting to talk about the first 100 sections of Wittgenstein's 'On Certainty' in the irc channel #4chanWittgenstein at 6pm GMT tomorrow (sunday)

Hey /lit.

Some of us decided to form a Wittgenstein Reading group a few days ago. The current plan is to read the first 100 sections of 'On Certainty', and then meet in IRC freenode #4chanWittgenstein on sunday at 6pm GMT (~noon on the west coast of the US).

Here is a PDF of On Certainty:
http://libgen.org/book/index.php?md5=EA8DFCC83912DC07F42BD015E0D1F912

And if you want to put in some extra effort here are two essays by GE Moore that are important context for On Certainty

A Defense of Common Sense:
http://www.ditext.com/moore/common-sense.html

Proof of an External World
http://www.hist-analytic.com/MooreExternalWorld.pdf

Feel free to email me, or if you want to pop into IRC some of us are hanging out.

Bumpin. #4chanWittgenstein is still going.

>>5382119

Someone in the channel said On Certainty is 700 sections. I think 200 a week is a plausible rate. Its not a very long piece. So we could get through it in 4 or 5 weeks really. Anyway, we will see how it goes.

The channel came to a conclusion.

We are meeting at 6pm GMT on September 7th in #4chanWittgenstein. Before coming to Meeting #0, please read the first 100 sections of On Certainty. Also as optional prerequisite, you can read GE Moore's 'A Defense of Common Sense' and 'Proof of an External World', which are two short essays which On Certainty is written in the context of.

Here are some links:

On Certainty
http://libgen.org/book/index.php?md5=EA8DFCC83912DC07F42BD015E0D1F912

A Defense of Common Sense
http://www.ditext.com/moore/common-sense.html

Proof of an External World
http://www.hist-analytic.com/MooreExternalWorld.pdf

We are discussing this in #4chanWittgenstein on freenode dot net.

Right now the plan is about 100-200 paragraphs of OC a week, meeting on Sundays in the channel.

I could take transcripts and we could discuss both in chat and via email.

>>5381499

Yeah, actually I might have exaggerated a bit. I only books I havent read that I am aware of are 'Remarks on the Foundations of Mathematics', and 'Volumes on the Philosophy of Psychology'. These books share some content with Philosophical Remarks and Philosophical Investigations though. So you could technically say I have read half of those book.

>and what about 2ndary lit?

I think many of Wittgenstein's peers (Russell, Frege, Moore) are great too. If by secondary lit you meant like writings on Wittgenstein, I would agree that more of it is crap. I liked Anscombe's introduction to the Tractatus however, but Anscombe has the advantage of being Wittgenstein's friend and even is the one who compiled Philosophical Investigations into its published form. Similarly Norman Malcolm's memoir of Wittgenstein is interesting, but again he was Wittgenstein's friend.

>>5381502

If you are just getting started I guess the Tractatus, ideally with some understanding of Russell or Frege. Thats my recommendation. I am up for whatever anyone wants to read though.

Wittgenstein was a pretty strong critic of Moore's paradox and his Hand argument. I was kind of confused on that point after reading OC. In Norman Malcolm's memoir he quotes Wittgenstein more clearly expressing his disagreement and rivalry with GE Moore, that I dont think is clear in some of Wittgenstein's writing on the topic.

Some of the guys in #4chanWittgenstein want to read On Certainty. I threw out the idea of reading a little GE Moore as prerequisite.

What do you think thread?

What book are you guys interested in reading?

Tractatus?

>>5381304

Yeah, freenode. #4chanWittgenstein

I hope I set it up right. I dont know much about IRC.

>>5381184
>>5381169
>>5381144

Yeah this is my understanding. I am pretty sure he didnt read any Aristotle, Plato, or Socrates. In Norman Malcolm's memoir of Wittgenstein, he shares a few letters where Wittgenstein says he tried to read Kirkegaard but it was 'too deep for him' (>>5381169). He also said Wittgenstein never read Hume because he found it too unbearable.

Its not surprising. Analytic Philosophy is a distinct and young tradition. I would say it started with Frege, who died less than 100 years ago, and knew Wittgenstein personally. Frege wasnt building off anyone, he was totally original.

>>5381209

iunno. I just typed '/join #4chanWittgenstein' on freenode dot net.. I am in the channel now with another guy.

>>5381217

I dont know. Im relying on OP.

>>5381162

I just made the IRC channel #4chanWittgenstein

My route through Wittgenstein was

The Problems of Philosophy - Russell
Tractatus - Wittgenstein
Foundations of Arithmetic - Frege
Philosophical Grammar - Wittgenstein
Sense and Reference - Frege
On Denoting - Russel
Principia Ethica - Moore
Culture and Values - Wittgenstein
Proof of an External World - Moore
Defense of Common Sense - Moore
On Certainty - Wittgenstein
Naming and Necessity - Kripke
Lectures on the foundations of Mathematics - Wittgenstein
Lectures on Aesthetics - Wittgenstein
Wittgenstein, a memoir - Norman Malcolm
Lecture on Ethics - Wittgenstein
Lectures on Logical Atomism - Russell
Philosophical Remarks - Wittgenstein
Philosophical Investigations - Wittgenstein
On Concept and Object - Frege
Function and Concept - Frege
Introduction to Wittgenstein's Tractatus - Anscombe
The Elements of Ethics - Russell
On Propositions - Russell
Begriffsschrift - Frege

I find it weird >>5379217 suggests not reading Frege or Russell first. I just jumped into the tractatus and I found it confusing as fuck. If I did my journey again I would start with Frege and Russell. My favorite over all was Philosophical Grammar. I find Philosophical Investigations to be over rated (though still great). In my opinion, Wittgenstein was most interesting when he talked about math.

Ive read every book published from Wittgensteins notes, which is like 10 books and 1700 pages. I feel pretty knowledgeable on Wittgenstein and would be interested in re-reading his material as part of a group.

Email me.