/lit/ - Literature

Don't worry OP, I quite enjoy Rothfuss's work as well. I'm by no means blind to the flaws it contains, but it's still something I love a great deal.

Earthsea and TBotNS have been mentioned and they're always good.

Hmm, Jack Vance is a reliable source of excellent, albeit dated/slightly sexist, fantasy and sci fi--the Dying Earth books and the Lyonesse trilogy as good examples of fantasy.

The Malazan Book of the Fallen really rustled my jimmies. A bit too much clumsy nihilistic angst in the first few books, and kind of basic "power level" stuff going on at times, but mmmm, dat Chain of Dogs. Dose sieges of Capustan and Y'Ghatan. Mmmmf. Very sink-or-swim in terms of world complexity, and much better (in my eyes) than ASoIaF.

>>4039324
it's closer than TBotNS. At least it pushes the envelope a bit.

It reminded me of TBOTNS...

>>4154690

This is one of the only Wolfe books I haven't had the pleasure of reading. I would love to pick it up. Let me know how it is, OP.

There are supposedly some answers to TBOTNS hidden in this book. That's part of the whole appeal of the book. Now that I think about it, I may go order it today.

>>4162522
I'm tired of re-re-re-reading the book of the new sun. I'm tired of discussing and loving Hyperion to no end, and I'm not willing to read the follow-ups to TBOTNS right now.

What kind of similar (a choral cast of characters, intertwining stories and interesting and weird as fuck lore) short SF books are there?

With short I mean, for example:
TBOTNS: 4 books that are in total ~1100 pages, with a 300pages long coda
Hyperion cantos: 2 books that are in total ~1200 pages. (endymion is unnecesary).

>>4206617
>If you think Book Of The New Sun is fantasy, it's that.

As much as I want other works of fantasy to strive for the "best" spot, TBotNS is undoubtedly one of the greatest stories ever told.

>>4226140

You did finish reading The Book of the New Sun before you read UothS, correct? Because if not, you should probably read TBotNS.

>>4227631
If you can appreciate a not entirely character-focused story with many (genuinely thought-provoking) philosophical tangents, then you may come to love TBotNS.

I dig what Gene Wolfe is writing about, and it became my favorite book of all time.

>>4246891

Not necessarily. The text STRONGLY suggests that Sev is a rampant time-traveler who appears at various points in history. He was most likely Apu-Panchau, the Conciliator, and defeated Typhon in a previous era. He may also be Jesus. Hence why the Claw is a thorn from a Rose. Jesus wore a crown of thorns and his blood is the resurrection of the body. The Claw seems to hold the power of resurrection. (Or is it Severian himself that has that power?)

So even if he is "dead" his future incarnation(s) time-travel to the points of his previous deaths in order to continue his work.

There's a lot going on in TBotNS. I've read the series about four times now and about to begin my fifth read through. Truly an underrated masterpiece. IMO, the greatest work of literature in the post-wwii era. Pynchon can go suck a ween. He doesn't have shit on Wolfe.

One mystery I'm still trying to figure out is what is the deal with Triskele? This one of the only mysteries I can't seem to figure out. My best guess is that he serves as a kind of "totem" in the sense that he seems to be a sort of constant that serves to remind Serverian of who or what he is and awaken his trapped memories within his (multiple) conscience.

Any ideas anyone?

Also, if you haven't already done so, reading The Urth of the New Sun clarifies a lot of the questions in the original tetrology.

>>4248774

If you've only read it once, you're doing yourself a disservice. More than any other series I've ever read, TBotNS is the most rewarding re-reading experience I've ever had. It continually surprises me the more I re-read it: read it again. You won't be disappointed

>>4248611

These are all solid Wolfe reads. Try Peace. It's a masterPEACE...lol i'm so funny..

But seriously, peace is a damn fine novel. Probably one of the closest I'd say to being perfect.

The Latro Series is interesting. His Short Fiction rules as well.

His later stuff isn't as complex as some of his earlier stuff, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. I really enjoyed Pirate Freedom and An Evil Guest. They're each homages to classic pulp fiction while transcending their standard respective genre motifs in interesting ways. They aren't on the level of TBotNS or some of his other earlier works but still great reads. If you like his style, you will like these books. I still haven't gotten around to Home Fires or The Sorcerer's House. The Land Across is released this month. I already have it pre-ordered. It doesn't seem like the standard Gene Wolfe novel. It looks like he'll be trying his hand at absurdism a-la Kafka. Hopefully it deliveers.

>>4265100
I didn't say they were not enjoyable, it's quite the opposite actually (keyword: relaxing).

But, at any rate, I don't read much fantasy. My purpose in reading is to feel challenged, to ponder the intent behind the words I read and be amazed at the skill of the writers. Entertainment is not the first thing I look in a novel and fantasy usually focus that aspect of writing.

So, having read too few fantasy books, I've gotten into enjoyable "trash" like Abercrombie, Glen Cook, GRRM, etc.
Miyazawa Kenji and 'Watership Down' are great if you're into children lit.
I've also enjoyed Tolkien and Gene Wolfe (TBotNS is probably my favorite fantasy series) because their literary scope -I think- was wider and more mature than the authors I mentioned before.
Maybe The Prince of Nothing was slightly above that level too.

I have some other authors on my backlog, but Sanderson, Robert Jordan and Erikson are not in that list.

I absolutely loved TBotNS. I was obsessed with this book, with the landscapes I pictured in my mind and the sheer scale of the age the books take place in... all those literary references and convolutions that are not explained that much.
The backstory and the framed narrative I think were used perfectly, from the fact that it's a 'translated copy' of a book sent from the future to the fact that Severian has perfect memory (yet he lies an awful lot).
When you start putting 2+2's together and figure out the descriptions are insufficient to properly explain what's happening the whole series get another layer to watch it through.
After a year of having read the series, I keep thinking about scenes in the book and how I felt when reading them.

>>4324174
>disgraced guild member
I'm pretty sure it's been told up to the point you've read so far that one of the Masters in the Torturer's Guild suffered from a similar fall-in-disgrace event. Also, Severian is quite popular with his teachers for showing great promise. So of course they'd give him Terminust Est.

Plus, there's a whole lot of Christian symbolism going on, but I won't spell nor spoil this out for you.

You read 4 books, right OP? Make sure to check the final one which is The Urth of the New Sun. It's trippy as fuck and a nice ending for the whole Severian voyage.

>>4340824

Start with some of Wolfe's shorter works like The Fifth Head of Cereberus and Seven American Nights, and his Doctor Death stories. On top of being some of the best short fictin you'll ever ready, you'll get a good feel for Wolfe's style and some of his techniques and games he likes to play with his audience. Then if you're still interested, take on TBotNS. It's seriously one of the best works of literature I've ever read regardless of genre

>>4413497

TBotNS is patrician as hell. It is such a nuanced and finely woven tapestry that even when you think you've figured it all out, you probably haven't.

Lots of /lit/erati's love to ride Pynchons cock. Pynchon is a great writer but Wolfe outclasses him in my book

>>4435600
It takes a while to really appreciate Wolfe. Which book are you starting with? I'd recommend The Fifth Head of Cerberus over TBotNS because it's sufficiently difficult to teach you how to read Wolfe, whereas TBotNS tries to distract you by almost having a traditional narrative.

>>4471220
Severian IS the author.

TBotNS is post apocalyptic in the sense that it happens in the distant future. The geography of the Earth has changed radically as thousands of generations have taken over the planet.
But you should read the 5 books to get the whole picture. Seriously, it's such an incredible ride. I was obsessed with how the 'coincidences' keep piling up, and the dreamy feeling whenever Severian did anything. Just wonderful scenes, like when he gets Terminus Est, or when he speaks with the old Library master (who was blind, same as Borges, btw).
I couldn't be entirely sure if what was being described was real or not, and this has never happened to me with any other book, at least to this extent.

Also, don't trust the vocabulary too much, that's the book's 'gimmick' -the translator uses words for ancient devices that are ancient no more. Instead of calling the arcane weapons and tools some Brandon-Sanderson tier crappy names, he uses obscure words from three centures ago. Same thing applies to the mirrors, the gardens, the towers (the towers are fucking rockets, hope you won't miss that), etc. There are aliens and weird creatures from outer space.

>Oryx and Crake and sequels
>The Drowned World
>The Passage

these aren't super literary but I found them entertaining. TBOTNS is quite excellent btw I don't think I'll ever forget the scene with the Alzabo

>>4473824

I think he meant TBotNS, not Hyperion.

>>4499489
Actually, the explanation is readily available in the next chapter. There's a mention of the building being suspended in the air for 1 second, then vanishing.

You just need to understand TBotNS is not some typical sword and sorcery(less) medieval or Iron-Age fiction. Gather the clues and picture what people are describing in them. Lots of stuff won't make sense, though.


Oh, man. I really need to upload my copy of Solar Labyrinths which explains many stuff.
But there's pretty batshit insane theories in it as well.

If OP is looking for great world building but with absolutely 0 history (a la Gene Wolfe's TBotNS) then check out The Dying Earth series.

That picaresque shit is the most fun read I had in a while.

There's http://urth.net/, but it's like the worst format for a forum.

There's also a book named 'Solar Labyrinths', which I read a while ago, written by someone said to have re-read TBotNS dozens of times.
It's got a few interesting theories, some are spot on while some are batshit insane, specially those referring to Severian's family. How he fucks mothers, grandmothers. To give you an idea, for some reason, the author of that work thought Severian had a twin sister. I never found the clues for such hypothesis myself and his arguments are not always as compelling as those of the spot on theories... so I can't tell if he is a genius or crackpot.

>>4685561
Yep, that was me. In all seriousness you have some good genre stuff in there too (TBotNS is genuinely great) but mostly the books on the list are works of escapism. That's fine, there's nothing wrong with reading as pure entertainment, but Lolita is a very different kind of book which is why it strikes me as so out of place.

I'm reading The Prince of Nothing right now, while it started out strong I'm in the second volume now and I'm finding it's not my thing. If the list you provided is representative of what you like then you might want to give it a try.

>mfw I'm having weird dreams about TBotNS again

I had a dream last night that went as follows
>I was asked to visit my aunt's house for a lunch with my parents and other guests
>My aunt died 10 years ago, she was very old and taught me how to read. Her house was a 150yo colonial house with thick walls. Its ceiling had been lined with some sort of tin or metal, that rusted with time, sort of like a (Matachin) Tower.
>The guests shocked me. There were my parents, some blond chick from TV that I didn't care about. And two other young people, a girl and a boy of 20 something.
>I knew the girl, I had seen her many times but never spoken with her. I've had a crush on her for a year.
>The guy next to her was very fucking close, almost touching her. It made me jealous and uncomfortable.
>He had the exact same features as the girl.
>It took me a few seconds they were twins, like Agia/Agilus.
>We ate in silence mostly. I wanted to show her around but at the end of lunch she was gone with her brother.


I don't dream of books too often, even though I read one every week. Not sure why but only this series seems to pull me into Wolfeian dreams.