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/lit/ - Literature

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9678881 No.9678881 [Reply] [Original]

“The Tao is always nameless” (Chapter 71)

Trying to narrow down the philosophy of the Tao Te Ching with limiting words is to violate its primordial essence. How can one describe the Universe, the natural order of things, the incessant flowing from being to non-being, the circular unity of a reality traditionally mismatched in dualistic terms?

The Tao Te Ching doesn’t provide answers because there needn’t be questions, just the harmony of moulding to the landscape rather than trying to impose a particular shape on it.
The Tao Te Ching is the route in itself, the path to emptying the human mind of ambitions, schemes and desires and allow it to be flooded with the smoothness of humility and the exhilarating liberation of a simple life.
The Tao Te Ching exults the feminine yin over the masculine yang in the eternal interdependence of opposites, identifying its indwelling suppleness with the intrinsic elements of the Tao.

“The great state should be like a river basin.
The mixing place of the world,
The feminine of the world.
The feminine always overcomes the masculine by its softness
Because softness is lesser.” (Chapter 61)

Thus the Tao cannot be expressed, it has no name, it is indivisible, inaudible and immutable but also the origin of multiplicity that gives way to ambivalent interpretation, which in turn engenders the befuddling suspicion that the more one wants to unravel the Tao the less one masters it because its aim relays precisely in attaining unforced wisdom.

Composed of eighty one aphorisms with aesthetic lyricism reminiscent of ancient riddles or even taunting wordplay, the Tao Te Ching dismisses moral teachings, embraces paradoxical dichotomies and differentiates itself from other doctrines like Confucianism because it relays in intuition rather than in duty rooted on imposed moral principles or any other contrived authority.
According to the introduction (*), some schools of thought have accused the Tao of endorsing chaotic anarchy and of not responding to consistent criteria, but such ambiguity in the use of language and its playful axioms are in fact a pure reflection of its skeptical views on measuring all actions according to artificial rules disguised as traditional rituals.

I can’t claim to have found everlasting serenity in connecting to the natural flow of Taoism and accepting its philosophy of “action through inaction”, but the idea of finding comfort in the constant contradiction of the positive and negative forces within oneself in order to embrace the convoluted intricacies of existence casts an overwhelming shadow to the absolute dichotomies and blind beliefs prompted by the more familiar monotheistic “fear based” religions, where guilt, punishment and suffering are the conduits to salvation.
Why crave for redemption if we learn to follow the “way things are” and welcome the natural interdependence between opposites, accepting disorder, nothingness and non-being as part of the indestructible unity of all things?

15 replies omitted. Click Reply to view.
>> No.9679016

>Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus
wrong book pseud

>> No.9679030

>Words are words
>Language is language
>I put some effort into making those haikus
I'm sure rappers also put some effort into rhyming hoe with hoe

>> No.9679034

What do you think I'm talking about? Because I'm pretty sure the TLP ends with the conclusion that language is inherently limited and that we're better off not trying to express some things with rational language because of their inexpressible nature.

>> No.9679040

I don't really see your point.

>> No.9679043

I've read it. Don't be so quick to assume others aren't as well-read as you are. Arrogance is not becoming.

>>I'm sorry but this is a special case.

In what way?

>>The Daodejing is in many ways a radically anti-language text

On what grounds? Your simple understanding of the context in which it was created seems to be the problem here. Did you read a translation?

>>Using Wittgenstein - a guy who lived during the 19th-20th century, at various times in complete seclusion - to illustrate your point about a document that was written in the 4th century BC.

Stop being so fucking narrow in your analysis of texts. Have you considered the different nuances between English and Chinese and how that might get lost in translation? Have you considered the historical background of philosophy in Ancient China?


Dude, no body is "uptight", stop projecting. We're all on 4chan, we know it comes with the territory. The fact is your post (if you did write them) were just not funny.

>>I resent your assumption that I'm just shitposting

Uh, you were? My claim is that it is stupid, not that it is a shitpost. Also, I don't give two fucks what you resent.

>>I recommend that you rethink your primitive dualist perspective w/r/t the relationship between serious discussion and shitposting on this website and everywhere else.

So anything you write lands somewhere between the two and simultaneously encompasses both "shitposting" and "serious discussion". Boy, are you valuable to have in a conversation.

If anyone should wind down, it's you.

Also get the fuck outta here with Wittgenstein talking about this. It's so clear now that he had limited sources/knowledge of Oriental culture to make any kind of a relevant statement regarding the philosophy of Taoism. Just cause our (yes, I'm Chinese) work doesn't fit into your body of work and/or viewpoints doesn't make it a "radically anti-language text" you conceited moron.

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9678843 No.9678843 [Reply] [Original]

Need some help /lit/ I'm looking for books that talks about the human psychology any philosophers worth a read

2 replies omitted. Click Reply to view.
>> No.9678882

No such thing as a unified "human psychology".

>> No.9678892

Thanks anon
Any books that tackles on the subject matter will do really

>> No.9678926

>I'm looking for books that talks about the human psychology
>any philosophers worth a read

>> No.9679015

Nietzsche & Kahneman. You're all set.

>> No.9679280

This is my History of Psychology reading list:
Plato - Soul, ideas, and knowledege
Aristotle - On the Soul
Seneca the Younger - Wise man's ideal
Plotinus - Nature of the Soul
Thomas Aquinas - Disputed Questions on the Soul
William of Okham - Occam's razor, Theory of knowledge
Michel de Montaigne - Intelligence et vertus animales
Francis Bacon - Scientific works
Galileo Galilei - Mathematics and objectivity

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9678834 No.9678834 [Reply] [Original]

Does /lit/ like Caroline Graham's Inspector Barnaby series?

I've been a Midsomer fan for some time and finally started reading them and I'm really enjoying them, the Barnaby in the books is lot more of a hard-ass than the series, or maybe its just that you can hear his thoughts now and realise what's under the surface. And Troy is even more of a man's man than in the series.

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9678799 No.9678799 [Reply] [Original]

What are some good books about Abjection?

>> No.9678804

I thought there was only one main theorist of abjection which was Kristeva.

>> No.9678822

Yeah but stories and fiction that deal with that theme, anything come to mind?

>> No.9678832

For some reason Skylark comes to mind. \

>> No.9678835

woah spooky pic

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9678735 No.9678735 [Reply] [Original]

Find a finn*sh author.
Protip, you can't,
F*nns are subhuman.

3 replies omitted. Click Reply to view.
>> No.9678753

Tao Te Ching.

>> No.9678761

How racist of you, Pelle.

>> No.9678763

Hej Jovane!

>> No.9678773

That list is lame shit coming out of a burger's ass

>> No.9678815


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9678730 No.9678730 [Reply] [Original]

You watch the clock, asking it for permission. Permission to wait. Permission to move.
You see the time, it tells you what to do. The calendar tells you how the day should be like, for you to be surprised - every time.
You hear a statement, you like the statement; this is good.
Learn physics, eat physics, see physics, become physics.

Dreams of awakening; sell them to me. [Any books of the sort, give them to me. I want to become, to become. I'm tired; I saw boredom.]

>> No.9678737

You talk like a fag and your shit's all retarded.

>> No.9678757

I was to expect this. Alas, it is no /tv/, but it is!
A visual thinker, I.

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9678707 No.9678707 [Reply] [Original]

>right and wrong are spooks
>being spooked is wrong

>> No.9678710

Read Stirner OP

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9678689 No.9678689 [Reply] [Original]

Is there any book that is the novel equivalent of 20th century boys by Naoki Urasawa /lit/?

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9678675 No.9678675 [Reply] [Original]

Anyone read any of her works?

Background: I'm currently reading through the NT and although I'm enjoying it I'm not getting that "click" moment where it all falls together. I can enjoy it for what it is and to a degree see where others find comfort in it however it feels far too much like a product of its time and location with much of each teachings simply feeling only relevant to the time and culture in which it emerged (in contrast to say the doctrines of the Pali Canon which seem more satisfyingly universal)

Now although I'm fundamentally a materialist, in practice at least, I am open to the existence of God, or at the very least idealism over materialism thus I'm looking for works to challenge my already established beliefs. So far out of all the Christian writers I have investigated only two seem to stand out so far: Kierkegaard (who I have already made a decent dent with) and Weil (who I have yet to read at all). The former makes a strong case for faith and the latter (as far as I can tell) seems capable of resolving the issues of the problem of evil.

tl;dr, Anyone read Weil? Sell me on her works? Christian esotericism/mysticism general.

>> No.9678764

I'd suggest reading Susan Sontag's essay on Weil before reading any of her works. Weil's ideas are intense and basically impossible to put into practice without exploding. She also takes alot of liberties with Biblical interpretation (she ignores the entire OT) so maybe she aint the best reference for understanding the Bible. That being said, she had a stunning ability to bring the Christian mysteries to life through metaphor.

>> No.9678812

>I'd suggest reading Susan Sontag's essay on Weil before reading any of her works.
Thanks for the recommendation anon.

>She also takes alot of liberties with Biblical interpretation (she ignores the entire OT)
Honestly this is part of the appeal. Because of my familiarity with scholars such as Stavrokopolou I can't see the OT being anything more than it is; a collection of jewish writings and mythology, written hundreds of years after the fact (for a specific audience and purpose) that are riddled with contradiction and allude to judaism's pre-monotheistic origin. This is of course not to say that the OT is worthless it's just something worth taking into account when reading it.

>> No.9679018

I just picked up La personne et la sacré from the library, anon. Strange coincidence. I feel kind of lonely in my fascination with her thought, ever since reading L'enraciment.

>> No.9679025

anyone read her notebooks? they seem cool af

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9678655 No.9678655 [Reply] [Original]

How did this mediocre hack become the best-selling poet in the US? Is this something we can blame women for?

>> No.9678660

Gonna need bigger bait there, kiddo

>> No.9678670

Rumi is the poet laureate of basic white bitches who want to signal how cultured they are by posting poetry on their Instagram accounts

>> No.9679159
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he is the poet of peace and a real muslim unlike the those fake terrorists you see all the time

>> No.9679169

Rumi Kaur

>> No.9679183


Wanna know how I know you're a virgin?

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9678647 No.9678647 [Reply] [Original]

Are they any good? Is it a good introduction to a topic or philosopher? Why, or why not? What is /lit/'s thoughts on Alain de Botton?

11 replies omitted. Click Reply to view.
>> No.9679185

>not being anti-democratic

>> No.9679239

I kind of feel that they're too strapped for time to really go over complete subjects. It's kind of annoying when they try to do an 'introduction' to a philosopher; just talk about one or two aspects about him, and then have to do 5 other videos to explain his ideas. The way they choose to focus in on Immanual Kant's ethics and not his epistemology is kind of sad. In general their approach probably isn't the best for teaching philosophy. It's better to do it almost like history where you start at the beginning, and learn names along the way. Instead of learning the name of a guy in history, and jumping into his biography without any background the world's situation at the time.

I guess it's good if you want a quick refresher for class though. They gave off a strong reddit vibe during the monasticism video when the announcer felt it mandatory to call himself an atheist at the end.

>> No.9679260


>> No.9679266
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>foreword by Lafontaine

>> No.9679294

We've been over this enough times. SoL caters to reddit tier numales with no intellectual standards. Can you handle it?

On a serious note if it gets you interested in the actual literature great if not forget about it, it's shitty little videos and if you actually get started reading the philosophers you're interested in you'll find the interpretations superficial and unsatisfactory.

There's no need to have a strong opinion about SoL. I know, I know, it's popular and whatever is popular must be important but rly it's not.

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9678646 No.9678646 [Reply] [Original]

I am about to start this. Why is it considered one a "new sci-fi classic" and should I even bother reading it?

6 replies omitted. Click Reply to view.
>> No.9678866

It reads like a story written by someone that's never consumed anyone else's work before, nor partaken in discussion on what makes a good story or a bad one.

It's probably above your level, but since it's the talent kind of level you won't get ready for it anytime in the future either, so just try it, drop it and complain about it with the rest of the rabble.

>> No.9678885

>New Sun is next level shit man, way beyond you.

>> No.9678895

It literally is.

>> No.9678924

It actually is unless you have good understanding of classical and modern physics and metaphysics, as well as the Greeks and Romans, and a healthy imagination

>> No.9678927

I don't know enough about mythology or astronomy to understand it.

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9678636 No.9678636 [Reply] [Original]

/lit/ I'm a western guy with about 15 years of experience in Japanese language and literature, and as I delved into their older works and older poems, reading them is almost like reading a different language entirely, in which you need to actually translate within the language what the poems are saying and the meaning behind the words being used.

Anything like that for English or similar that you can relate to this?

>> No.9679217

B.O. Woolf

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9678617 No.9678617 [Reply] [Original]

Stack thread, haven't seen one in a while

5 replies omitted. Click Reply to view.
>> No.9678666
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>> No.9678718

>doc savage
>nero wolfe
is this real?

>> No.9678848

Yes, and swedish and finnish. Little bit of the other scandi languages, italian and estonian
Thinking about picking up russian, I've started learning the cyrillics

>> No.9678867

The Finns cheat though. They learn both English and Swedish in school. Especially the older generation, the people who are 50 years old now, are basically trilingual.

>> No.9679234
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9678616 No.9678616 [Reply] [Original]

>severely depressed existencial nihilist
>apathetic and anhedonic about everything
>reading only for productivity and self-improvement
>realize i'm going to die anyway and exactly the only thing i do is literally futile

56 replies omitted. Click Reply to view.
>> No.9678959

>Meditation isn't even something... definable, but thanks for the advice.
Just the regular things that people associate with the word; controlled breathing, observing and accepting your emotions, mindfulness etc. I'm 25, I have nothing going for me and I don't think life matters either but I meditate and do hard physical work+exercise and I'm the opposite of suicidal so maybe it's worth a shot?

>> No.9678984

You meditate by the things associated with meditation or?

>> No.9678987

You haven't gone deep enough into existentialism you dip.

>> No.9679003

>Meditation isn't even something... definable, but thanks for the advice.
just do standard mindfulness/vipassana

get an app if you like

it helps

>> No.9679033

I do what I just talked about, yes. But I'm no expert. Google meditation for beginners or something like that. Afaik most people do what >>9679003 said.

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9678613 No.9678613 [Reply] [Original]

Thoughts on Faust?

>> No.9678628

Is the Philip Wayne translation acceptable?

>> No.9678634

thoughts on water
is it wet ?

>> No.9678937
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ok imma try something crazy here cuz I'm bored; let's have a serious discussion

Faust is one of my personal favorites
Goethe explores here beautfiully the nature (i.e. the impossibilty) of living a fullfilled life.
When Mephisto and Faust make the pact, Faust says he can have his soul as soon as he is truely content/fullfilled ("Sollt' ich zum Momente sagen, verweile doch du bist so schön..."). A lot of people hate on the 2nd part because it's so "absurd" but I think what Goethe really want to say here is that it is literally that absurd to archieve full happiness (as Faust does at the end of the 2nd part). He explores this notion in his Wilhelm Meister, a book wich has no true beginning and end, it's just a endlos journey of evolving/change, but ultimatley you are never "finished" (i.e. at a point in life where you can say "ok I'm fullfilled now, that's the end)
One of the themes that resonantes with me the most is the tornness of the individual between living a 'hedonistic' (pleasureful, life), i.e. finding meaning in love and the human desire for understanding and 'meaning' ("Zwei Seelen wohnen, ach, in meiner Brust.."). But also that with all the knowledge at our disposal we can only ever scrap on the surface of the "truth" ("Hier steh ich nun ich armer Tor - und bin so schlau als wie zuvor").
Another key lesson in the first Faust is, that it's not as simple as "make a pact with the devil and you will suffer". Goethe is way more subtle here(Faust get's rewarded greatly for his heresy) instead showing, that if we make the metaphorical pact with the devil, it's those who we love/which are closest to us who have to suffer. (The real tragedy in the play happens to Gretchen, loosing her mother, brother and even having to kill her child because of her love to Faust).
there is just so much to talk about in this small book, such as Goethes critique of the Church and his humanistic/metaphisical remarks but it's been a while since I last read it

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9678586 No.9678586 [Reply] [Original]

Reading the Book of Revelation


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9678575 No.9678575 [Reply] [Original]

remembering title of story/prable-

A holy man has a reputation for helping others, but one day finds himself in need of spiritual guidance. He remembers there's a priest who is famous for helping people through their troubles, so he goes off in search of the priest.

He finds the priest (meets him as a companion while travelling?) who reveals the priest was also looking for the holy man for the exact same issue.

I want to say it's a short story, but it could've also been part of a larger work. Something by Tolstoy? Hesse?

pic unrelated

>> No.9678594

glass bead game by hesse.
josehpus is the guy i think.

>> No.9678607

reminds me of a similar yet different parable I read related by Martin Buber

>Rabbi Bunam used to tell young men who came to him for the first time the story of Rabbi Eizik, son of Rabbi Yekel of Cracow. After many years of great poverty which had never shaken his faith in God, he dreamed someone bade him look for a treasure in Prague, under the bridge which leads to the king’s palace. When the dream recurred a third time, Rabbi Eizik prepared for the journey and set out for Prague. But the bridge was guarded day and night and he did not dare to start digging. Nevertheless he went to the bridge every morning and kept walking around it until evening. Finally the captain of the guards, who had been watching him, asked in a kindly way whether he was looking for something or waiting for somebody. Rabbi Eizik told him of the dream which had brought him here from a faraway country. The captain laughed: “And so to please the dream, you poor fellow wore out your shoes to come here! As for having faith in dreams, if I had had it, I should have had to get going when a dream once told me to go to Cracow and dig for treasure under the stove in the room of a Jew — Eizik, son of Yekel, that was the name! Eizik, son of Yekel! I can just imagine what it would be like, how I should have to try every house over there, where one half of the Jews are named Eizik and the other Yekel!” And he laughed again. Rabbi Eizik bowed, travelled home, dug up the treasure from under the stove, and built the House of Prayer which is called “Reb Eizik Reb Yekel’s Shul.”

>“Take this story to heart,” Rabbi Bunam used to add, “and make what it says your own: There is something you cannot find anywhere in the world, not even at the zaddik’s, and there is, nevertheless, a place where you can find it.”

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9678574 No.9678574 [Reply] [Original]

Post em

3 replies omitted. Click Reply to view.
>> No.9678620

Why does this board even exist ?

>> No.9678621



>> No.9678626

The Destruction of Sennacherib lol

>> No.9678688

I really like to write
I find it really cool
when the poem rhymes it's
um what rhymes with nice

>> No.9679282

Now, why is best in parentheses?

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9678527 No.9678527 [Reply] [Original]

>"start with the Greeks"
>not studying/being able to read Greek
Defend yourselves plebians

14 replies omitted. Click Reply to view.
>> No.9678704

OP you're coming across as a bit of a LARPer here desu. Would you or anyone be any closer to understanding the Russian soul of the classics if all you did was learn Russian on duolingo? The guy with cultural awareness and understanding reading translations is infinitely better off than the guy with high proficiency in the language who is clueless and uneducated about the mentality and culture of the people. And since we have virtually no means of cultural immersion in Ancient Greece except larping scenes from Homer and Herodotus which amounts to nothing, learning the language won't get anyone any closer to any real appreciation beyond placebo effect by pretending to be Greek, i.e. larp. But then again maybe the meme really is just a meme. And maybe you find beauty in the language itself which is great but if that was all there was to it you wouldn't have started this thread.

>> No.9678860

What do you mean here by larp? Surely there's no better way to understand something like Homer than by trying to recreate the mindset of its intended audience?

>> No.9678901

Italianfag here, highly proficient in Latin and thinking about learning ancient Greek. What are the main differences from Latin? Is it harder?

>> No.9678913

Similar in the way grammar works (declinations), different but easy to learn alphabet. I say go for it. I studied some ancient Greek in HS and what we did when beginning was translating Aesop's fables. Get a good dictionary. I wouldn't say it's harder but obviously you will find Latin more similar to Italian.

>> No.9678973

You don't start with the greeks to learn about their culture, to do that you major in Ancient Greek Studies. You start with the greek literature because of its influence on the world, and to understand the motives. But most writers which read the greeks, did not speak greek. And for fucks sake, there is nothing wrong with translations from ancient languages which do not even have any practical use.

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