/lit/ - Literature

>>23056560
Why would anyone play a game where you die if you win?

>>23039948
>Very little

So, you CAN just start reading stuff specifically on the Aztec if you want, but I think it might help to read some generalist sources on Mesoamerica first, just for some broader context.

"The Cultural Tapestry of Mesoamerica" is a short (~20 page) PDF which is a pretty good generalist overview and introductory document. I have nitpicks, such as the population estimate it gives for Teotihuacan, the way it talks about Central Mexico in the Early Postclassic or it overstating the centrality of the Aztec Empire, and most notably it not talking about the Purepecha at all, but it's mostly a good starting place. Just be aware it comes from a Mormon publication and those often have bullshit conspiracy stuff when it comes to Mesoamerica, so my endorsement of it is JUST for that one PDF, not ness. other stuff from the same author, source, etc.

It's >reddit, but /r/Askhistorians is legitimately a great resource, you can find a collection of Askhistorians posts in a pastebin (though it hasn't been updated in a while so it lacks a lot of recent Askhistorians stuff from the past few years) in the second comment in this chain: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistory/comments/c7gu1l/i_want_people_to_dump_interesting_information/esh1756/?sort=top , with that chain of 3 comments also linking to a ton of good comments and resource collections that person makes, who I share resources with. (i'd just ignore their book pastebin, and defer to the Askhistorian's booklist, he and I will make a organized book rec chart at some point).

If you binge all the Askhistorians posts in the AH pastebin, or just like all the links and comments that person has/links to, that will give you a good starting foundation across a wide variety of topics too, but you may or may not think that is overkill if you're just wanting context before diving into Aztec religion specifically.

Personally I think more rather then less context (at least a that Cultural Tapestry pdf or pic related for Mesoamerica as a whole, and then maybe some posts on Aztec society, culture, etc generally) going in would be better, because most people don't even have a basic mental image of Mesoamerican history and society the same way even people not specifically informed on them still at least somewhat do for Egypt, Greece, Japan, etc, but it's your call and I don't wanna force you to go through like 20 things you don't care about just to start the one thing you actually want to read.

I had my own 4chan resource directory but it's gotten even more out of date relative to that person's reddit one so I'd just defer to it for now.

1/?

>>20606507
Yes, me.

Here's the current WIP, haven't really had much time to work on it.

>>19344545
>>19344597
>>19345802
>>19345819
The Broken Spears was a gold standard book for it's time, but these days it's sort of criticized for portraying the Mesoamericans in a pretty passive, victimized light that ignores all of the active fighting, political scheming, etc both against the Conquistadors and to them as allied troops who were frankly doing most of the work and arguably political spearheading for them.

If you want book or other suggestions, info, et on Mesoamerican civilizations, let me know. Pic related is my WIP reading chart

>>17553106
>>17549738
>>17549019
Also on a non shistposting note, if anybody else here is well read/.informed on Mesoamerica and wants to help me make a Mesoamerican chart, let me know, my throwaway is saintseiyasource@gmail.com , if the thread 404's (mention wanting to help with the chart in the email)

Here is what I have so far, minus me having like 7-9 books and over a dozen in mind for the Oaxaca and Aztec sections also (but more input there would be nice too)

>>16787195
>>16787142
>>16787031
>>16786406
>>16786439

WIP mesoamerican reading chart


Open to feedback on fonts, text size, general layout, book suggestions, etc. Main things I want input on though is

- If the description sections for the Spanish Conquest and the "What is Mesoamerica" is too long or not: I sort of feel like they are but I also actually didn't even finish the latter, I wanna talk about the different periods of Mesoamerican history too

- If you feel like I should add additional sections for Warfare, philosophy, linguistics, mytholiogy, etc or not: On one hand there's generalist books about those not limited to 1 civilization that don't fit into the existing sections, on the other hand it might "dilute"/spread stuff across sections too much and take spots away from the stuff I would have in existing ones here and there, and/or force me to have duplicates.

As is, actually, I have Duran and Sahagun's histories in the Conquest section when those are primarily Aztec history/socetial documents, so I need to decide if I want to just them just both twice, each pair in each section, or just have them in Aztec but then have arrows leading to the conquest section too, etc, so input on that (if that is too hard to understand I can make a diagram, let me know)

Also, prior feedback I got, lemmie know if you agree or disagree with them: https://archived.moe/his/thread/7878000/#7884585

Still working on my WIP Mesoamerican reading chart.

Open to feedback on fonts, text size, general layout, book suggestions, etc. Main things I want input on though is

- If the description sections for the Spanish Conquest and the "What is Mesoamerica" is too long or not: I sort of feel like they are but I also actually didn't even finish the latter, I wanna talk about the different periods of Mesoamerican history too

- If you feel like I should add additional sections for Warfare, philosophy, linguistics, mytholiogy, etc or not: On one hand there's generalist books about those not limited to 1 civilization that don't fit into the existing sections, on the other hand it might "dilute"/spread stuff across sections too much and take spots away from the stuff I would have in existing ones here and there, and/or force me to have duplicates.

As is, actually, I have Duran and Sahagun's histories in the Conquest section when those are primarily Aztec history/socetial documents, so I need to decide if I want to just them just both twice, each pair in each section, or just have them in Aztec but then have arrows leading to the conquest section too, etc, so input on that (if that is too hard to understand I can make a diagram, let me know)

>>14551392
That's nice to hear, though I still think my general point remains: it covers at least 3-4+ mythlogies in Europe, the Near East, and Asia each, and only 1-2 in any of the areas I mentioned.

Covering only the Aztec and Maya when Mesoamerica has all of pic related going on even as a tl;dr is pretty measley: It's just not given even a fraction of the same level of focus other (traditonally defined) cradles of civilizations are (nor is the Andes)

Hey, that anon who infodumps stuff about Mesoamerican (Aztec, Maya, etc) history/culture on /v/, /a/, /his/, /k/, /tg/, etc here

I'm working on one of these for Mesoamerica. So far, only the Conquest section is done.

Wanted to get input from people here in terms of the layout, font choices/sizes, background, etc. Of particular note is if people feel the discriptions are too long or not: I'm bad at being concise and i'm worried it's too much, as is the "What is Mesoamerica" section on the top right I want to extend and talk about how Mesoamerican history is typically split up (the Prehistorical periods, and then the Preclassic, Classic, and Postclassic)

Also, suggestions for additional categories: Should I have warfare, intellectualism, mythology, etc as distinct sections, or should I just have the books which cover that go into the approrpiate section for each culture/regional subarea? Or both?

Also it'd be nice if you could explain your logic instead of just telling me your preference

Hey, that anon who infodumps stuff about Mesoamerican (Aztec, Maya, etc) history/culture on /v/, /a/, /his/, /k/, /tg/, etc here

I'm working on one of these for Mesoamerica. So far, only the Conquest section is done.

Wanted to get input from people here in terms of the layout, font choices/sizes, background, etc. Of particular note is if people feel the discriptions are too long or not: I'm bad at being concise and i'm worried it's too much, as is the "What is Mesoamerica" section on the top right I want to extend and talk about how Mesoamerican history is typically split up (the Prehistorical periods, and then the Preclassic, Classic, and Postclassic)

>>13832409
also I have a mega of Precolumbian resources, esp. for Mesoamerica here mega.nz/#F!vtQ2EIKK!Z7R8gN5vTsfalKDn18jOmw . I also have an art drive (mostly mesoamerican) here drive.google.com/open?id=15iey5ZMTHflLHbMVGPRsyBLKLcHGCsKb which will eventually get folded into that mega

reddit.com/r/history/comments/9jwhhu/silly_questions_saturday_september_29_2018/e72toxp/ is a post by a dude I coordinate with on Mesoamerican stuff which has additional resources (booklists, suggested artists/channels etc; the askhistorians post list esp. is a good starting place)

also here's a bunch of prior posts of mine

>Daily aztec life desuarchive.org/his/thread/5446429/#5466013 and OP here desuarchive.org/his/thread/5529489/#5529489
>Info on sacrifice fireden.net/v/thread/472484567/#472498581, specifically for the last link there with the 20 post series, see also fireden.net/v/thread/468469029/#468479573 as a disclaimer
>Info on Aztec warfare: archived.moe/k/thread/39206407, an updated version here I never finished here: fireden.net/v/thread/461820979/#461904652 and desuarchive.org/k/thread/42148105/#42180011
>Info on on metallurgy, watercraft, and briefly on politics and administration: desuarchive.org/his/thread/4232340/#4233526, way more info on politics here pastebin.com/h18M28BR
>Info on why the Conquest of Mexico was extremely lucky and how itt easily could have failed desuarchive.org/his/thread/5526254/#5526329 and shorter version: fireden.net/v/thread/441551507/#441565260
>An overall summery of Mesoamerican history: desuarchive.org/his/thread/4176613 Albeit the posts posts 11 to 16 in the main reply chain is made obsolete by desuarchive.org/his/thread/5285820/#5290147; also pic related
>A brief overview of city sizes, hydraulics, sanitation, and botany: desuarchive.org/his/thread/5506706/#5528682 and a longer version I never finished here: desuarchive.org/k/thread/39546199/#39557233
>A debunk of Aztec gods being white/Montezuma thinking Cortes was quetzalcoatl + the spread and variations of mesoamerican feathered serpent gods: desuarchive.org/a/thread/193107477/#193118717 ; though I wasn't able to finish, you can see what would have been my final post here: https://pastebin.com/0wPxh1MF

>>13142100
>There's some stuff about the Maya and other Mesoamerican civilizations like the Mixtec, Zapotec etc, or Andean ones like the Inca,

Not in the books I mentioned,but I mean in other books/works

on this note it's a shame so little is taught about precolumbian cultures, most people only know the aztec, maya, and MAYBE the olmec as mesoamerican civilizations when in reality pic related is only giving the real bare minumum summary of civilization in that region

>>12949463
I'm sure that Spanish Americans have done some things but I highly doubt Mesoamericans have done much, if you don't understand the difference then you've missed the point entirely.

If you want to talk about megalithic builders then we have to get way more esoteric and basically just guess at who they actually were (spoiler : they were white)

>>5644814
David Carrasco and Miguel Leon-Portilla for the Aztecs, Linda Schele for the Maya

Pic related is really comprehensive.

You might like Diego Duran's History of the Indies of New Spain more than de Sahagun, he's somewhat more sympathetic.