/lit/ - Literature

>>15999068
> I hear P&V are good translators for Dostoyevsky, but everything else is pretty shit.
People only say that because he is a writer of ideas, mental state, and action, and his style is generally journalistic. With even distribution of inadequate translation choices, his message still gets through. This wonkiness isn't suitable for authors with distinct style, nor it's the best option available.

But we don't even need to get to the translation quality. P&V are promoted the same way they promote an unconventional healing medicine, by stating that everything else is dire shit that is wrong, and cherry-picking exorbitant praise from figures that look authoritative but don't actually belong to that specific field. Actual translators are gnashing their teeth from their ignorant stance on translation.

https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/the-pevearsion-of-russian-literature/
http://www.thinkaloud.ru/feature/berdy-lan-PandV-e.html
https://www.librarything.com/topic/260074
https://readingroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/10/29/the-art-of-translation/#comment-206
http://languagehat.com/the-translation-wars/
http://languagehat.com/more-translation-wars/
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2016/06/23/socks-translating-anna-karenina/
http://languagehat.com/janet-malcolm-vs-pv/
https://kaggsysbookishramblings.wordpress.com/2013/06/01/why-i-dont-read-pevear-and-volokhonsky-vtranslations/
https://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2013/01/the-pevearvolokhonsky-hype-machine-and-how-it-could-have-been-stopped-or-at-least-slowed-down/

>>/lit/?task=search&ghost=&search_text=pevearsion

>>15816574
Begone, shill!

https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/the-pevearsion-of-russian-literature/
http://www.thinkaloud.ru/feature/berdy-lan-PandV-e.html
https://www.librarything.com/topic/260074
https://readingroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/10/29/the-art-of-translation/#comment-206
http://languagehat.com/the-translation-wars/
http://languagehat.com/more-translation-wars/
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2016/06/23/socks-translating-anna-karenina/
http://languagehat.com/janet-malcolm-vs-pv/
https://kaggsysbookishramblings.wordpress.com/2013/06/01/why-i-dont-read-pevear-and-volokhonsky-vtranslations/
https://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2013/01/the-pevearvolokhonsky-hype-machine-and-how-it-could-have-been-stopped-or-at-least-slowed-down/

>>/lit/?task=search&ghost=&search_text=pevearsion

>>15816222
second this, P&V translations are bad. I read their versions of War & Peace and The Possessed (I'm not calling it "Demons"), found both to be often unreadable and occassionally unintelligible.

https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/gary-morson/the-pevearsion-of-russian-literature/

https://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2013/01/the-pevearvolokhonsky-hype-machine-and-how-it-could-have-been-stopped-or-at-least-slowed-down

Avsey is great. Garnett is fine too and is public domain.

Just avoid P&V.
https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/gary-morson/the-pevearsion-of-russian-literature/

https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/the-pevearsion-of-russian-literature/
http://www.thinkaloud.ru/feature/berdy-lan-PandV-e.html
https://www.librarything.com/topic/260074
https://readingroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/10/29/the-art-of-translation/#comment-206
http://languagehat.com/the-translation-wars/
http://languagehat.com/more-translation-wars/
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2016/06/23/socks-translating-anna-karenina/
http://languagehat.com/janet-malcolm-vs-pv/
https://kaggsysbookishramblings.wordpress.com/2013/06/01/why-i-dont-read-pevear-and-volokhonsky-vtranslations/
https://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2013/01/the-pevearvolokhonsky-hype-machine-and-how-it-could-have-been-stopped-or-at-least-slowed-down/

>>/lit/?task=search&ghost=&search_text=pevearsion

>>15256236
>https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/gary-morson/the-pevearsion-of-russian-literature/

>>15170597
some anon in another thread said that P&V translation is shite
https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/gary-morson/the-pevearsion-of-russian-literature/

nevertheless Crime and Punishment is great, you're in for a riveting study into the psychology of a guilty murderer

>>15169917
https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/gary-morson/the-pevearsion-of-russian-literature/

Some of his points are nitpicky but I've read their translation of M&M, which was stiff, awkward trash. I don't expect their other translations to be any good.

https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/gary-morson/the-pevearsion-of-russian-literature/
Avoid P&V. You can look at Amazon previews and compare to other translations to see their stilted, awkward prose yourself.
Avsey, McDuff, (revised) Garnett all read fine to me.

>>15023661
Here's an article on the subject:
https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:SWiwhiHTp7UJ:https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/gary-morson/the-pevearsion-of-russian-literature/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
Sorry about the weird link, but the article is behind a paywall now, so I had to link to the version cached by Google.

>>14739144
P&V deliberately pretend that style does not exist, only words and phrases matter. They act like biological computer translator. This is all you need to know about them. Want more? All the links are at
>>/lit/?task=search&ghost=&search_text=pevearsion

https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/the-pevearsion-of-russian-literature/

>>14476719
https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/the-pevearsion-of-russian-literature/
> Pevear and Volokhonsky, who are married, work in an unusual fashion. She, a native Russian speaker, renders each book into entirely literal English. He, who knows insufficient Russian, then works on the rendering with the intention of keeping the language as close to the original as possible. What results from this attempt at unprecedented fidelity is a word-for-word and syntax-for-syntax version that sacrifices tone and misconstrues overall sense.

>>14270669
d/l other translations and compare for yourself

here's a defence of Garnett fwiw:

>https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/the-pevearsion-of-russian-literature/

>>14224471
>>14225255
Not quite
https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/the-pevearsion-of-russian-literature/

>Pevear and Volokhonsky, who are married, work in an unusual fashion. She, a native Russian speaker, renders each book into entirely literal English. He, who knows insufficient Russian, then works on the rendering with the intention of keeping the language as close to the original as possible. What results from this attempt at unprecedented fidelity is a word-for-word and syntax-for-syntax version that sacrifices tone and misconstrues overall sense.

>>13993501
Yeah, these are all good. My personal favorite translations are:
>Ready's C&P
>Avsey's Karamazov / Idiot
>Garnett's Anna Karenina (revised by Kent/Berberova)

>>13993578
https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/the-pevearsion-of-russian-literature/

>>13866960
> russian scholars insisting they're the best
Each time you spot this, you spot a shill. Russian scholars consider P&V's approach as amateurish and ignorant, and woe the capitalist system in which such shit can be marketed and forced upon unsuspecting public. You don't know any anyway.

There is a difference between comparing which translator has more talent, and comparing translators who master their trade to those who “invent” literal translation because they are completely style-deaf.

>>/lit/?task=search&ghost=&search_text=pevearsion

>>13785685
Paastin more links.

https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/the-pevearsion-of-russian-literature/
http://www.thinkaloud.ru/feature/berdy-lan-PandV-e.html
https://www.librarything.com/topic/260074
https://readingroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/10/29/the-art-of-translation/#comment-206
http://languagehat.com/the-translation-wars/
http://languagehat.com/more-translation-wars/
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2016/06/23/socks-translating-anna-karenina/
http://languagehat.com/janet-malcolm-vs-pv/
https://kaggsysbookishramblings.wordpress.com/2013/06/01/why-i-dont-read-pevear-and-volokhonsky-vtranslations/
https://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2013/01/the-pevearvolokhonsky-hype-machine-and-how-it-could-have-been-stopped-or-at-least-slowed-down/

>>/lit/?task=search&ghost=&search_text=pevearsion

>>13786128
This is the most complex task for which it can be used with languages not closely related to English. Try translating some Japanese websites and see if they make any sense (without guessing things you've already absorbed from annie mays).

Most people don't understand that their opinion about quality of machine translation is formed by promotional and semi-promotional media stories.

>>13785185
https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/the-pevearsion-of-russian-literature/

>>13779601
Read this

https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/the-pevearsion-of-russian-literature/

>>13779592
Can't go wrong with either Maude or Garnett, although I would also recommend the Marian Schwartz translation which I have.

https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/the-pevearsion-of-russian-literature/

https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/the-pevearsion-of-russian-literature/

>>13479823
>The Pevearsion

>>13478692
https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/the-pevearsion-of-russian-literature/