/lit/ - Literature

>>15139971
Ah yes, why would I seek intellectual rigor, aesthetic value, and books that closely resemble my personal artistic sensibilities if I can just read such "modern greats" as Sanderson to "discuss" it with your fellow 14 year olds. Why would I ever read such unrelatable, boring obscurities such as Hodgson or Dunsany if I can just inject myself with morphine?

Also
>super obscure shit
So obscure! A person who the most cited literary critic of the 20th century placed into his list of all-time most significant novels, whose magnum opus Disch hailed as the best fantasy ever written, and which was continuously praised by Ursula le Guin as groundbreaking.
Or is it the most popular living non-Russian speculative fiction writer in all of Europe?

You stand for everything which disgusts me in modern consumerist society. You can not conceive of the hatred I feel towards you. You are less than human.

>>15096528
I opened a random page and he mentions "Thomas Disch"

>>14804374
Yourcenar and Mary Renault.

For some reason dykes make good classical /his//lit/.

Also Thomas Disch and Sam Delaney for SFF.

>>14772156
Disch ish my dick, which I would prefer you to suck upon ::schniff:: so zat you may be silent, and so on

Wolfe has an almost legendary status amongst fellow authors; Gaiman called him 'a ferocious intellect', Swanwick said he's "the greatest writer in the English language alive today", and Disch called this series "a tetralogy of couth, intelligence, and suavity".

You can rarely trust the popular market to single out good authors, but you'd think it might be safe to listen to the opinions of other writers (especially an assemblage of Nebula and Hugo winners in their own right). I will give his fans one concession: Wolfe is an author who defies expectations. Unfortunately, I was expecting him to be remarkable and interesting.

This book had been sitting on my shelf for months, along with other highly-praised works I've been looking forward to, but I bade my time, waiting for the mood to strike. Few live up to their reputation, but most at least deliver part of the promise.

I would expect any author mentioned in the same breath as Peake to have an original and vibrant style, but I found Wolfe's writing to be simple without being elegant. His language and structure serves its purpose, only occasionally rising above mere utilitarianism, and then he rushes to florid flourishes that fall flat as often as they succeed. Sometimes, it is downright dull. The prose of the second book is stronger than the first, but its plot and characters are more linear and predictable.

I appreciated his 'created language' more than most fantasy authors, but I didn't find it particularly mysterious or difficult, because all of his words are based on recognizable Germanic or Romantic roots. Then again, after three years of writing stories about Roman whores in Latin, I had little problem with 'meretriculous'. Even those words I wasn't familiar with seemed clear by their use.

The terms are scattered throughout the book, but rarely contribute to a more pervasive linguistic style, as might be seen in The Worm Ouroboros, The Lord of the Rings, Gormenghast, or The King of Elfland's Daughter. Wolfe's terms pepper otherwise and unremarkable modern style, which hardly helps to throw us into a strange world.

He is better than the average fantasy author, but he resembles them more than he differs from them. His protagonist started off interestingly enough: an apparently weak and intelligent man, which made it all the more disappointing when he suddenly transformed into a laconic, wench-loving buttkicker who masters sword-fighting, finds the Super Magic Thing and follows the path of his Awesome Foretold Fate. Again, I must agree with Nick Lowe: Wolfe's plot owes more to magic and convenience than good storytelling.

>>13746044
>>13746072
>Post some works you consider to be the pinnacle of SF/F literature
Let me post some authors instead, because they are generally very consistent in their writing, and I have read almost everything by them anyways:
Wolfe, Ballard, Disch, Peake, Crowley, Dunsany, Delany, Mieville, Le Guin, Bulgakov, Dick, some of Moorcock, Lafferty, Priest. Some of them are controversial, and my enjoyment varies as well, but no one can deny that there's purpose to their writing. Not didacticism, per se, but something that goes, or at least attempts to go, beyond mindless entertainment.
For me, the pinnacle is probably Peake and Wolfe.
>>13746099
I never claimed that every post has to be an essay. I merely would like to see people go "Should I read [insert a random YA-level high fantasy]", somone responding "yeah, its ok", someone else responding "no, its bad, because cucks" and the topic ending right there.
>except for Hyperion
Hyperion was OK, if overrated. I was insulting Patrick "let me tell you about gays" Rothfuss.
>the best SFF isn't especially challenging
Dhalgren, Gormenghast, and Peace are just a few counterexamples to that. All 3 had been discussed here not that long ago.
>reading for entertainment
desu I am fine with that. The problem is that only some books of "pure entertainment" seem to be allowed here. As soon as you mention Daniel Black, there are 5 Peter's telling you about the chinkshit general. But mention Wheel of Whatever, and Scott Mediocre and everyone deludes themselves into thinking they are somehow better. They are all garbage and it is critical that everyone understands that. The only thing worth mentioning about them are the ways in which they "sratch the itch", fullfill wishes, or are generally comfy in some way. Any sort of 2-sentence long attempt at "Yeah, it's good, I liked [some random thing which isn't actually the real reason they enjoyed the book]" is pointless. WOT has been discussed dozens of time here, and the anon wasn't bringing anything new to the general by asking if it is good.
I am probably being a bit unclear in my writing so let me put it simply: I called them garbage, because their posts achieved nothing of value. The reason why I think they posted that is because they are not being genuine with themselves about what they read being pure entertainment and nothing else.

>>13717564
I'm taking phil381, giving the philosophy department one more shot, since I only had one 100 level phil class before. polsci101 with Disch was terrible, imo, she kept pointing to passages of the text that weren't the essence of it, and her slides were watered down and crappy (but what can you expect from a 101 class?). Hopefully your prof is better. Just do the readings and think for yourself.

>>13498980
No, but if that image helps me find:
- The Lords of Creation, John C. Wright
- The Word of God: Or, Holy Writ Rewritten, Thomas M. Disch
- The King in the Golden Mask and Other Stories, Marcel Schwob
I want it too

Phil wrote to the FBI saying secret neonazi organization approached him to put coded messages in this book and then said Thomas Disch's camp concentration book contained these messages. And then in other interviews he praises that book
wtf was his problem?

>>12601351
>He didn't read Der gantze Jüdisch Glaub

>>12329745

Philip K Dick, William Gibson, Ursula LeGuin, Samuel Delaney, Stanislaw Lem, Gene Wolfe, Douglas Adams, Thomas M. Disch, Frank Herbert, and Ernest Cline

>>12236414
All Thomas Disch is good

>>12236414
This is the only Disch ive read and it was p good.

>>12236414
>Thomas Disch
Yes

>>12223371
You may like Thomas Disch's The Priest. Mostly horror, but features body-switchin' time travel elements

>>12197871
Thomas M. Disch more or less specialises in what you seek.

>>12052661
>Clifford D. Simak, A. E. Van Vogt, PKD.
>The Brothers Strugatsky
>Stanislaw Lem
>Thomas Disch
>John Brunner
Absolutely based and patricianpilled

>>12052609
>> Dumb frogposters
Dear me. And here I thought the literate were inclusive.
Well, if you like SF, frogophobes, may I recommend:
Anything by Clifford D. Simak, A. E. Van Vogt, PKD.
The Brothers Strugatsky--particularly Noon: 22nd Century and Doomed City.
Stanislaw Lem, of course--particularly the underrated "Return From the Stars"
Piers Anthony (of all people): Ghost
The Destructives - Abaitua
Early Thomas Disch, late Barrington Bayley, Bob Shaw.
Greg Bear's Eon, Eternity and Legacy
John Brunner
And (though it's manga) the staggering "Gantz"

Seig heil, fellow intellectuals!

>>11653726 >>11654517 >>11654684 >>11655352 >>11655468 >>11655525
Overcompensating kike. Fuck it, I'm gonna counter your autism with my autism:

Philip K. Dick
Robert A. Heinlein
Arthur C. Clarke
H. P. Lovecraft
Ray Bradbury
Kurt Vonnegut
Frank Herbert
Stephen King
Ursula K. Le Guin
Alan Moore
Roger Zelazny
Clark Ashton Smith
Fritz Leiber
J. G. Ballard
Anthony Burgess
John W. Campbell
Edgar Rice Burroughs
Theodore Sturgeon
Poul Anderson
William Gibson
Orson Scott Card
Michael Crichton
Michael Moorcock
Gene Wolfe
George R. R. Martin
Terry Pratchett
Douglas Adams
L. Sprague de Camp
Samuel R. Delany
Jack Vance
Brian Aldiss
Lester del Rey
Philip José Farmer
Bruce Sterling
Leigh Brackett
Marion Zimmer Bradley
Norman Spinrad
John Brunner
Kim Stanley Robinson
Clifford D. Simak
Thomas M. Disch
Larry Niven
Jerry Pournelle
Frederik Pohl
James E. Gunn
Kate Wilhelm
Vernor Vinge
L. Ron Hubbard
Dan Simmons
Margaret Atwood
Dean Koontz
Ted Chiang
Jeff VanderMeer
China Miéville
John Scalzi
Octavia E. Butler
Spider Robinson
Jeanne Robinson
John Varley
Timothy Zahn
Connie Willis
Mike Resnick
Nancy Kress
Barry B. Longyear
Terry Carr
Gordon R. Dickson
Andre Norton
William Rotsler
Christopher Priest
Edward Bryant
Rog Phillips
Richard Wilson
C. J. Cherryh
Lisa Tuttle
Charles L. Harness
Lucius Shepard
Laird Barron
Michael Bishop
Jack Williamson
Andy Duncan
Anne McCaffrey
Walter M. Miller Jr.
C. L. Moore
Algis Budrys
Charles Sheffield
Allen Steele
Thomas Olde Heuvelt
Alexei Panshin
Gregory Benford
John Crowley
Robert J. Sawyer
Jack McDevitt
Neal Stephenson
Bruce Bethke
Rudy Rucker
Thea von Harbou

Your "science fiction was dominated by white men when in fact it has been the exclusive domain of the Jews since after the close of the Victorian Era," claim is pure bullshit.

>>11524883
Ballard, Delaney, Disch. Spinrad too when he decides to be.
If you want something recent Brian Catling is a fantastic writer

True Names by Vernor Vinge is great

Camp Concentration by Thomas M. Disch

What are we going to read next?
https://www.strawpoll.me/15903366

Roadside Picnic,
by the Strugatsky brothers (whose name I don't even have to spellcheck any more)
>https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/331256.Roadside_Picnic

Brave New World,
by Aldous Huxley
>https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/5129.Brave_New_World

The Stars My Destination,
by Alfred Bester
>https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/333867.The_Stars_My_Destination

The City and the Stars,
by our boy Arthur C. Clarke
>https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/250024.The_City_and_the_Stars

We,
by Yevgeny Zamyatin
>https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/76171.We

The Genocides,
by Thomas M. Disch
>https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/743672.The_Genocides

A Night in the Lonesome October,
by Roger Zelazny
>https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/62005.A_Night_in_the_Lonesome_October

>>11311819
The Genocides by Disch

do it you pussies

>>11164636
Don't know, was lucky enough to find a secondhand copy. His books can be hard to find apart from the more genre friendly SciFi ones.

Also Thomas M Disch does short stories similar to what you're after, a good collection is 'Getting into Death'