/lit/ - Literature

>>19973219
>Hesse novels
Ever read glass bead game?

That was like the first book ever recommended to me, on the internet, probably like 12 years ago. I read some summeries, was intrigued but never read it. I was always in a paceful scortch towards deep poetic factoids of knowledge I was scared to invest my time in a slow drip slow burn story book that may more than provide enlightenment provide fanciful tease

>>19964604
The child is aware how much it depens on the mother's sensible regularity: this action appears to the child as some malfunctioning robot would, it is scary, is my mom stuck in this bizarre function, will she never be normal again.

Throw in some primal disrespect of the.baboon butt back turned ignoring and there we might have it

>>19963121
Can electrons be destroyed? Anti electrons? Is this theory only or has it been done? What do they turn into when they cancel out? Neutrino and stuff and radiation? What can cancel out a neutrino, anti neutrino? What does that canceling result in?

But initial question, if electron can be ""dissipated""" by interaction with another particle, what is actually physically occurring in that dissipation process, how and why physically exactly does the electron cease, and where exactly and what exactly is the substance source of the resultant

2/2
>>19918743
That in order for the activity following a choice to be done the will must produce that activity. The will knows it can pick up that rock and throw it, try to hit this tree or that tree, or it can touch a leaf or rip it off or pick up a stick and bend it or break it or hit it against a tree and or log; but from where would come the want to do this. Why not is as good as why it seems; where what is possible meets why not comes freedom for the will to exert itself, but is it always for something, for fun, for relieving stress, for distraction, for easing boredom; do these things determine an action must take place; yes but what action, is the wills freedom.

The will is walking; I want to pick up the rock and that stick; why?
I want to.
Why?
I don't know... Or I do know.... I want to
Why do you want to?
Well I know I can, and why shouldnt I?
Well why should you?
Why shouldn't I?
Why should you?
I can, and I Will.
Ok...but why?
Because
Why?
Because I can?
There are many things you can do and you don't do them all, why right now this one?
Because why not, I could, I could not, why not just do it, I wanted to,
Why did you want to?
Why would I not have wanted to?
Because there is no need or purpose, it makes no sense
So what, it is fun, it feels good to hold material in the hand, and try to hit things
Aha! So there is a reason and goal!
Yes, you got me, I was determined by fun, pleasure and alleviating boredom

>>19910696
4/4
and now there was an outburst if concern over a small kitchen fire, which actually occured about 10 lines ago but I needed to finish the thoughts, and now the concern died down so I could continue with thoughts though I thought the commotion of the fire would have been a nice excuse and end point to stop, and I am still able to scroll up and search for any branches I don't see the end of, but I really have been looking for an excuse to stop writing this for some time now, though the fun and excitement and mystery and reward of solving mystery and play ajd the colorful dancing winding looping thought trains determine that I keep writing , but for now I shall determine myself to stop, but am I detetmined to stop by nature because I have nothing else to say in the topic, well that may be true, but as I mentioned I could scroll up and see if anything sparks some more lines of thought, so no, and yes, and sort of maybe, i will call it quits, I promise, I will see to it that this writing stops right exactly now, but of course there is the pressure to be funny and write after saying it stops now, part of me truly planned to stop it right there at the word now, it wasn't till all the way starting the word now that I thought maybe I should continue, and then I was determined, forced by the prospect value of humor, alas, now.... Though again the scene is too established for humor it begs it, but ok I need to get out of bed and eat, so see ya later guys

>>19910696
3/?
I don't recall why exactly, now I lost my train a bit I just debated in a fraction of a millisecond if I should write 'of thought' after train right there but determined it unnessecary, and yes I realize I could have written detetmined it 'was' unnessecary, so where was I going, I was actually building multiple trains and tracks at the same time winding and looping in different directions, trying to follow them all shiney and matte and changing all color, so you see I really had no clue where I was going, my head was empty and I was ready to call it a post, but I asked myself where I was going, and that simplified into the thinking of the train, and although that was not where I was going I don't think, it did blossom for me that imagery or the thought to include the multiple trains, to really drive home the concurrent multiplicity point, and a few lines ago never would I have imagined in my wildest dreams, or that when I questioned if this stream of them thought would go 2 more lines, that it would eventually include the terms concurrent multiplicity, though ifvcousmrse I should have known, and in a sense I did because those are just equal but different words equaling what I have already been mentioning, so now I'm really in the thick of it, no clue where I was heading and no clue where I've been and thus there is a strong urge to stop right here and call it a post, but I can also scroll up a bit and see if I see any trunks of ideas or branches I may shake to have fruit fall, I don't see any fruit, but maybe if I grab all the branches I see and shake or climb them I will see fruit or it will fall, and though part of me wants to end this here due to being tired, wanting to eat, scared if I scroll up I will see no more branches or fruit, or that they are getting thin and rotten, that the thickket is getting thicker or the barren field more sparse, and now people are loudly speaking in my house and I am distracted because now along with all I have been staying I have various voices saying various things of sensicality entering my head, and though I was admitting my wells possibly running dry and not only did this give me increased superficial content as a possible excuse and complaint for not continuing, but the content has interesting relation to topic expressing the grappling with multiplicity, but does my focusing on it and ignoring it conclude a lacking of multiplicity, I would say not because I have written many times about my trains of thought while hearing the voices of others distracting, it is harder but still possible, greater chances of losing the train,

>>19910696
2/?
so too then do I take my part I this process by selecting the sweetest and most charming assets and consider them the broad and refined attributes of my aesthetic taste, I am very selective and I am not, why and how, yada, this strain of thought seems to have wandered off, I don't recall where I was going, yet I was speaking of always premptively going, the fuzzy misty blurry clear mind haze of imagining took me too far from the concrete written moment and I lost my place, too many future flights of my taste and desires denied until the steam of my words halted and left with no further track, these trains of thought, this process, in the mind the train and the track and the stream and the sky are made of words and images and blurring and appearing and dissappraring as you are quickly opening and closing doors and tugging on roots of lightning and trees, and you and your minds are determinedly to degrees by the words you have just written and the ideas you just discarded though maybe they may be relavent a little down the line, and you are quickly responsible for the constant laying down of the track, you make an initial declaration, or was it made for you by ancient carvers of tablet stone, right now I want to write, why, what determines that, it could be a many number of things, including you've read books, determined writing is cool and you want to try, or I mean, what else is there besides that, you make an initial declaration, I want to write right, and then what follows, your interests, your fancies, your moods, your feelings, your words, your rhythems, your melodies, your tastes, your inflections, your relation to phonetics, your play, your mental singing and dancing, many different mental things going on at once at very near the speed of light. What will write in 2 sentences from now, I have no clue, they will be determined by what I write right here and now, or will there not be any more lines of writing might this one here be the very last one, I am not even sure, since im not writing periods I will say a sentence is between the commas and instead of sentence I will refer to it as a line , so I will not look but it seems I did already write 2 more lines, now I went back to include that part about sentences being refered to as lines, I just grappled with the potential of being lazy and writing sentences being referred as lines to avoid typing the 'to' part but concluded I may as well include it,

>>19910696
(5/5)
>The will simply is. There is no arguing around this point. Therefore, existence is innocent.
How is this concluded, how does this follow from your other points? What do you mean by innocent? If all humans agree on a rule, and back it up with reasons why it's a good rule, and you can choose to follow or break that rule, and to break that rule is to be said to perform an act thats not innocent, then in that moment the will was used not innocently, according to humans rules. And if there is a God that agrees with any human rules, and it was one of them you chose to break, God might have prefered you not to have chosen. Contextually, the will is innocent until it's not, after a guilty act the will may return to being innocent, the will is only not innocent, contextually, when it is doing that that is considered not innocent.

This is a good point regarding all the different laws between towns and countys and states and nations and religions.

What one does over here is guilty, the same thing over there is innocent.

Which is why in such haughty and severe conversations such as these, I always try to bring up the most universal.

>>19910696
(4/?)
, I like the way a million girls look but I can only choose one, I can choose many different items in the grocery store however, and many different flavors of coffee, but what exactly makes this one fancy, so one might be inclined to say because I am determined to speak to girls at all but nature, and determined to eat at all by nature, the choice is relatively superfluous, but does my will find a place in the cracks between all the micro and macro determinisms, spinning and twisting and cascading and dropping and rising fast and slow and frequent, does all this crazy interactions, billions and billions of things inside and beyond me on many scales all churning and interacting regularly and differently, does this produce some, most novel thing, considered me, a black or white or black and white hole or holes in the mind, is nature inventive and creative enough to give me myself, any part of myself, any idea of myself, of myselfness, yes limited by the unavoidability of matter and energy limits, and whatever possible chemical electrical mental picture static fuzz, is there a place for me inside myself, some sanctuary, some chamber, where I might map and measure in peace, I am aware of all the determinations, thus may I escape some, to be determined is to believe the magic tricks of nature, some are certainly real and true, but some I have learned the secret of the trick, thus I know, even if I have a gluten allergy, I still have the power to buy that gluten, I am determined by nature not to eat the gluten, I will not be determined, and I will buy it, I am determined by nature not to buy the fancy coffee, it is $10 and I only have $7, oh an idea, is it my idea or was it determined, I will ask the girl if she can lend me $5, here goes nothing, or here goes everything.

>>19910696
(3/?)
though I must quickly remind myself my momentary boredom, of this perfect eternal monotony, on the gut or visual level is understandable to a novelty consuming machine, though I must intellectually concede the supremecy of the simple giants shoulders used for such standing, the importances, building blocks and such, and with the simple static notes of the scale how many songs can be made, and how many tunes and melodies are unequal in kind and harmony and proportion yet equal in beauty, and what determines exactly my agreement with these, the raw facts of the qualities of sound playing my instrument ear, and my intellectual and imaginational journey of considering what these musical lines and flights of fancy correlate to deep thoughts and feelings, relatable ones to my memories and times in my life, to marvel at another minds love and dedication to beauty, and craftsman ship, and digging deep for rare ideas, sophisticated ideas, complex, elegant, difficult to come about, or sublimley natural, pure, flowing, groove, to sing, to aim blindly with nothing, towards thee, or, sorry, a, timeless melody, and what did determine that composer, to remove this or that note, adjust it this or that half step, quarter or eighth, this or that tempo, and then you realize the coffee girl must have left like ten minutes ago, just kidding she's still there, and you conclude you will speak to her, but did you conclude, did you conclude, who concluded, how did you conclude, didn't we establish you were determined to conclude, that you must talk to her, you have no choice because nature determined for you that you must talk to girls, but nature concluded you must talk to girls, but nature did not conclude you must talk to this girl, is that not up to you, what determines you talking to this girl, we already went over it a bit, but you still have the power to not talk to her if you wanted, if you want, you have the power to talk to her if you want, what will determine if you do or not, a number of weighings, and maybe on one day, you, what would determine the weighing to be adequate for yes and another day no, what you ate for lunch that day, if you were wearing your favorite shirt, what exactly makes that your favorite shirt, if your hair is looking particularly good or bad, those all these on the scale of judgement, and what will determine the final judgement, you can hardly take it any more, fuck it I'll just go talk to her, or fuck it i just wont talk to her, fuck it I will, fuck it I won't, she loves me she loves me not she loves me she loves me not, if you mix chance with determinism is it neither or both, if you stir just the right amounts and kinds of various chance with the right amounts and kinds of various determinisms, and you, whatever the heck you are is stuck there right in the middle juggling all these, might it count as a choice if you just say, I like the way that looks, but why,

>>19910696
>>19911212
(2/?)
is this the day, what would make this the day, why this day and not the previous 243 oppurtunities to talk to a girl in the market, does she strike you that much more than the others, or have you reached the braking point of lonliness, what established that breaking point, what amount of aligning stars or nerves, is she the prettiest and is this spurring you on, or is she the ugliest so you feel more confident, if you ask her and she says no you can feel that embaressment and shame, you may never be able to shop here again, oh but come on, there are guys that don't think a second to talk to any girl they want, to ask them out or anything, why don't you just do that, if she says yes good things will occur, doesn't the good vastly outweigh the bad, don't you have to risk the bad occuring to get the good, you might as well get the fancy coffee in front of her and strike up a conversation, ok yes, so there is a determined natural desire in you to want to be with a woman, this is forcing you into this sceanario, you have no free will in the sense that as you need food and water you need a woman, so causally forced to consider talking to this one, you did not free will the idea of your shame possibly existing, as being any obstacle for just possibly speaking, but maybe If you desire you could work on restricting your shame there, to have no doubt to try to talk to any girl, you did and did not to degrees determine your looks, your ugliness or attractiveness determines possibly your amount of fear or shame in trying to chat her, you can to degrees train yourself to say I will not care about anything I will talk to all these girls no matter what and if my body produces shame feelings I will laugh and embrace it because my body wants me to talk to girls, I want to talk to girls, my body is scared to talk to girls, I'm scared to talk to girls, but I need to talk to girls, i agree with my want to talk to girls, it is possible to resist this want, but it could be painful resisting, so is it really my choice if I am choosing what is least painful, maybe I can choose which girl I will talk to, that is not as determined as my general need to talk to a girl at all, so what about this one strikes me to talk to her, what about her face do I find bearable, i have seen many bearable girls faces, that I could marry and not get sick of seeing, what determines that, my sense of beauty or bearability, her harmonies and proportions, I did not determine the existence of harmonies and proportions, I did not determine geometry, nor that it is pleasing to see, order, organized, neat and tidy, equal, even, though I did not determine the existence of these things is it at least me that agrees with their coolness, their goodness, their impressiveness, do I have any power or say to say that, and would you or I really believe it is actually me saying, for tommorow I may be completely sick of the rectangle, unerved by the square,

>>19910696
>let us suppose that one is limited by nothing, and has infinite choices. It is entirely dependent on you to determine yourself. So your choice is dependent on nothing except your choice.

(1/?)
Well choice is dependant on a lot, I don't think I ever implied it wasn't. Could reality be anything other than ultimately limited, as hard and damn sure impressive as it's trying, appearing as it is churning out inexhaustible infinite infinities. Ultimately are there limits, so that even if God sat you next to him you in soul form and gave you eternity to think of and make whatever you could imagine, what might be the result of that? To design your own universe, fundamentally from the ground up, it would have to 'physically logically' work right, limitations are required for freedoms, apparently one can get much more out of the infinities created using laws and orders(laws of physics) then if matter and energy was ruled purely by randomness, though who knows, sometimes in music flurries of randomness is very powerful and nice, but how much sustainable variety is on that. I digress.

Again to design your universe you would need to utilize some possible shapes; ultimately all, even any theoretical God is limited by what is possible. There is only that which is possible.

So we can either choose something based on randomness or choose something based on rule, and this is the connundrum aye.

Reason, or no reason.

So it is determined that we have to eat. To degrees it is determined what we have to eat (not rocks). We enter a grocery store and see 20,000 items. It is no longer fully determined by nature beyond our mind what we have to eat. And surely whatever means of choosing what to get from the grocery store, many people in many times of history did not have 20,000 food items in front of them to choose from. So now there are all sorts of factors that will determine which items you will choose, some genetic, some had a bad experience with certain food in childhood, some texture gives you the bad chills, some items you have never tried and afraid to try because you are convinced your not the type of person to just randomly try new foods, how much money you have, if you consider something too expensive, a certain brand you do or don't like for reasons x y z, there's a girl in the aisle your trying to impress, do you buy the fancy coffee in front of her, are you the kind of person to do that, do you want to, where does that want come from, is it your want, do you agree with the want, what about you agrees with it, do you think it's good, do you want to want, do you like to want, do you like to get, you like the rewarding feelings of getting, life itself is getting, continous getting, maybe 99 out of 100 days you wouldn't get the fancy coffee to show off, maybe 999 out of 1000 days you wouldn't strike up a conversation with her,

>>19899508
>>19899492

>But how could a totally indifferent substrate which is free of necessity and influence from causality be drawn to any such decision at all?
I don't think the will is free from causality, it is aware there are many causalities and it can consider the various benefits of them, and furthermore, ultimately it is the cause of which it chooses, possibly for bundles of reasons, including genetic, physiologic, rarity, regularity, craving, psychological, memories, curiosity, adventure, ultimately will full understanding of going forward with a choice.

There are also constant nessecities, food, water, bathroom, sleep, the will meeks out it's way weaving through all nessecities. Steering itself in the direction it wants, it thinks is best, or worst, or in between.


>How could something which exists as essentially a non-character then choose a character from which its preferences flow?

Feedback loops, idk, I didn't know what baseball was, then I played baseball, compared to the boring nothing of my existence, I felt something and thought something, it was exciting captivating and fun, now my character is a baseball player.


>also, I don't see the availability of options as true freedom...
If you have 50 options, and you are about to make your choices you have mulled it all over, and then in a single second ($10,000,000 example) you have 1,000,000 new options. You will see that your freedom increased. You possess greater degrees of freedom. You possess more options. Even if you possesses awareness of 10 more possible choices, the power, the freedom of your will has increased.

>>19899492
(1/2)
>if that part of the will which is truly free(not dependent on necessity) exists, it either had to create itself from nothing, or it was dependent upon externalities and ultimately God. Is this not so?

Awareness/conciousness/the will, we are speaking about humans here, did not will it self into existence. Think about babies, think or how long it takes babies to develop their will, understanding of the world. A year or more, 365 times around the sun, a continuous need of food energy and visual and otherwise relational cues, capturing images of the world in it's head, slowly and surely capturing the relations and catagories between those images, and scales and charts and graphs of personal relations to them; this process is the developing of the mind, the jumpstarting of the will. A push and pull, between the burgeoning will, the outer wills of others, the determined processes of the outer world, and the determined internal processes of the body and brain, head starting, catapaulting, avalanching snowballing into a will, which then wink wink takes on a mind of it's own, using the momentum of that child hood development process to continue, now needing less help from an outsider pointing to apple and tree and rain and clouds and sun and burn and ponds and ducks and fish and pan and dog and toy and pet and bark, to... Get the picture, to get the idea of this understanding stuff, to then the individual is all the sudden without training wheels, without bumpers, doing it all by itself, in possession of it's imagination, of it's thinking and wondering, aware of possible trains of thought. Questing questioning, how curious kids are, wondering, seeking seeking understanding, looking for connections out in the world, to help make bigger and clearer the web of connections in the head.
Using the idea of interactions between things, the idea, the concept of catagories, to play with things in the head, mix and match, think, ponder, desire, enjoy. To see the world is composed of objects, and their interactions ruled by physical reasons, to use the idea of reasons, of reason, to use your imagination and will to navigate the possibility of the world and your desires.

>The will has personality, a character?
I would think it possibly has many. There are moods, and there are writers who possess many characters in themselves. Though ok yea, a character, the unique way body and brain develop with mind and world, memories and imagination second by second, making conclusions about itself, it's potentials, it's desires, how it can get away with being, how it may have discovered it is rewarded for being.

>>19899154
>>19899169
We need to work or way up to arriving at ideas and understanding, don't expect instant proof. For instance, I think we get somewhere relavant in this topic when when I bring up this point:


You are aware you have different options right now, they are limited, you are somewhat aware of their bounty and their limitations.

Now if right now $10,000,000 was placed in your bank account, you would be aware the limits of your options would be somewhat increased.
***

That is extremely non trivial to this discussion, that it is possible for ones range of options and choices to exponentially increase in an instant.

That there is such a thing of greater and lesser options, choices, freedom, fir the same individual, in the matter of a second.

>>19817011
Cold Russian winters, what else is there to do?

>>19817415
Nah Op probably didn't know the truth but consumed the tricky pop lie.

I never said I was an adherent to this rule of Nieysxhe, it is interesting and valuable in ways.

>>19817313
To further express:

Nietszchzshe brings up as a thought experiment:. That one should live thier life as if they would have to live it all over again, as a barometer, a measuring of values and acceptances.

He nowhere near posited some magicy multi dimensions fantasy metaphysical belief that such a thing is the truth that occurs:

As much as you pop sci pop phil pop psych fantasy buzz feed buzzword loving tabloid writers crave for getting readers eyes on headlines.

There, that falsity is over with, dispelled and to be no more.

*Sheaths glowing sword of truth*
*Spits sunflower seed accidently onto shoe*
*Wipes it off with other shoe*
*Grimice smiles like tough guy video game character*
*"Next"*

>>19817256
Non readers and non understanders, but pop sound bite consumers entirely mis quote and misrepresent the presentation and thought experiment of eternal reoccurrence.

>>19815244
But also the interest in Bitcoin is the belief that it still can be usefully used in the future. 5 ,10 15 20 years, 2 3 years, more and more stores could takes Bitcoin.

The established companies, credit cards, apple pay swooped in and made paying more convieient, so the reason it wouldn't be easy for normal companies to accept bit coin for goods and services is tax stuff.

Bitcoin is like returning to a more primitive form of money (while also being the most futuristic) like a large amount of the population coming together and saying 'using this standard money is in ways hurting us, let's just use these certain kinds of seashells as currency'

>>19816722
Then again you may be right, but most importantly we must consider this may not even be an accurate quote, but just one made by an anon for fun.

Tolstoy's books bare full of conflicts and dramas of society, and maybe Nieyszche swift and undecorated slicing through all pretense and bs nullifies the society Tolstoy so painstskingly attempted to depict, or even further, nullified the worth of a novel.

Imagine if Nieyszche as a character showed up at a high class ball in Anna Karina equipped with his notebooks and diary, ready to discuss and debate

>>19816722
He was content enough to call nieyszche stupid for trying to buck the system.

That's the only thing he could have called him stupid for because he clearly had intelligence capacity. He must think he's stupid for not just trying to perform his roll, which looks to be what, a metal worker, brewer, a pharmacist

>>19816739
>realize all pursuit of pleasure or fame or power or really anything in life is empty and hollow and that nothing will ever satisfy
Simply not true. The destroying of this idea is contained in the ancient idea of temperance and moderation. Every single day is a little slice of eternity, full of many heavens. Every night one gets to go to sleep, wake up fresh to experience unimaginable joys and delights all over again. If a person is intelligent enough, modicumly, all the things you mention merely make this easier

"You see, boobs are like balls", she thought to her self, "big soft balls, big cushiony spheres protruding from the chest, the world is big and scary full of hard and sharp items, but looky here, round and soft, we may breathe, we may sigh, we are home, in the boassom of the world, ahhh, the soft round, yum, yum, there is nothing big scary sharp world, ahhh, shhhh, soft and round, soft and round, squishy squishy, yum", so she had an idea, our brave heroine, she decided to make it a mission, to travel the globe and visit the unfortunate, and let them squeeze her boobs, and lay their wearied heads to rest, and snuggle, and kiss, and massage, and lick, and praise her boobs, these items of reverence, these rare miracles of the world, she began to contact news organizations, social medias to find followers and founders and fellow priestesses of her new religion, Boobology, centered around the Mother, the Daughter, and the Holy Boaust, she contacted every single government agency and successfully established scholarships and grants, to be given to any who dedicated themselves to the way, their crest was a breast, their creed was a beeb, and so her and her followers, began to travel the lands, towns to towns, cities to cities, spreading the sacred love and joy, the grace and beauty, the soft supple splendour, the Goirld given gift of bounty, allowing all those who swore the oath of worship to supplicate and atone their sins, at the high and mighty alter of Titties