/lit/ - Literature

>>18399814
Constance Garnett. P&V are a meme.

https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/the-pevearsion-of-russian-literature/
http://www.thinkaloud.ru/feature/berdy-lan-PandV-e.html
https://www.librarything.com/topic/260074
https://readingroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/10/29/the-art-of-translation/#comment-206
http://languagehat.com/the-translation-wars/
http://languagehat.com/more-translation-wars/
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2016/06/23/socks-translating-anna-karenina/
http://languagehat.com/janet-malcolm-vs-pv/
https://kaggsysbookishramblings.wordpress.com/2013/06/01/why-i-dont-read-pevear-and-volokhonsky-vtranslations/
https://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2013/01/the-pevearvolokhonsky-hype-machine-and-how-it-could-have-been-stopped-or-at-least-slowed-down/

>>18381833
https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/the-pevearsion-of-russian-literature/
http://www.thinkaloud.ru/feature/berdy-lan-PandV-e.html
https://www.librarything.com/topic/260074
https://readingroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/10/29/the-art-of-translation/#comment-206
http://languagehat.com/the-translation-wars/
http://languagehat.com/more-translation-wars/
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2016/06/23/socks-translating-anna-karenina/
http://languagehat.com/janet-malcolm-vs-pv/
https://kaggsysbookishramblings.wordpress.com/2013/06/01/why-i-dont-read-pevear-and-volokhonsky-vtranslations/
https://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2013/01/the-pevearvolokhonsky-hype-machine-and-how-it-could-have-been-stopped-or-at-least-slowed-down/

>>18309929
https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/the-pevearsion-of-russian-literature/
http://www.thinkaloud.ru/feature/berdy-lan-PandV-e.html
https://www.librarything.com/topic/260074
https://readingroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/10/29/the-art-of-translation/#comment-206
http://languagehat.com/the-translation-wars/
http://languagehat.com/more-translation-wars/
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2016/06/23/socks-translating-anna-karenina/
http://languagehat.com/janet-malcolm-vs-pv/
https://kaggsysbookishramblings.wordpress.com/2013/06/01/why-i-dont-read-pevear-and-volokhonsky-vtranslations/
https://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2013/01/the-pevearvolokhonsky-hype-machine-and-how-it-could-have-been-stopped-or-at-least-slowed-down/
https://johnmcwhorter.substack.com/p/pevear-and-volokhonsky-are-indeed

>>/lit/?task=search&ghost=&search_text=pevearsion

Garnett is great. Just avoid P&V at all costs.

https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/gary-morson/the-pevearsion-of-russian-literature/
https://johnmcwhorter.substack.com/p/pevear-and-volokhonsky-are-indeed
http://www.thinkaloud.ru/feature/berdy-lan-PandV-e.html
https://classicsbookclub.files.wordpress.com/2016/09/socks-by-janet-malcolm-ny-review-of-books-june-23-2016.pdf
https://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2013/01/the-pevearvolokhonsky-hype-machine-and-how-it-could-have-been-stopped-or-at-least-slowed-down/
http://languagehat.com/more-translation-wars/

https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/the-pevearsion-of-russian-literature/
http://www.thinkaloud.ru/feature/berdy-lan-PandV-e.html
https://www.librarything.com/topic/260074
https://readingroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/10/29/the-art-of-translation/#comment-206
http://languagehat.com/the-translation-wars/
http://languagehat.com/more-translation-wars/
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2016/06/23/socks-translating-anna-karenina/
http://languagehat.com/janet-malcolm-vs-pv/
https://kaggsysbookishramblings.wordpress.com/2013/06/01/why-i-dont-read-pevear-and-volokhonsky-vtranslations/
https://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2013/01/the-pevearvolokhonsky-hype-machine-and-how-it-could-have-been-stopped-or-at-least-slowed-down/
https://johnmcwhorter.substack.com/p/pevear-and-volokhonsky-are-indeed

>>/lit/?task=search&ghost=&search_text=pevearsion

>>18088741
Best translation is Garnett. P&V got BTFO here: https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/gary-morson/the-pevearsion-of-russian-literature/

Rejoice, ladies and gentlemen! Not everyone has succumbed to The Invisible Hand, and there's still opposition to the evil idea that quality of the work doesn't matter if it's marketed well.

https://johnmcwhorter.substack.com/p/pevear-and-volokhonsky-are-indeed

A nice addition to The P&V List:
https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/the-pevearsion-of-russian-literature/
http://www.thinkaloud.ru/feature/berdy-lan-PandV-e.html
https://www.librarything.com/topic/260074
https://readingroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/10/29/the-art-of-translation/#comment-206
http://languagehat.com/the-translation-wars/
http://languagehat.com/more-translation-wars/
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2016/06/23/socks-translating-anna-karenina/
http://languagehat.com/janet-malcolm-vs-pv/
https://kaggsysbookishramblings.wordpress.com/2013/06/01/why-i-dont-read-pevear-and-volokhonsky-vtranslations/
https://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2013/01/the-pevearvolokhonsky-hype-machine-and-how-it-could-have-been-stopped-or-at-least-slowed-down/

>>/lit/?task=search&ghost=&search_text=pevearsion

I did some research on what English translation of Gogol's short stories I should read. There are far fewer options than for Dead Souls: there's P&V (which allegedly sucks), Magarshack (which is missing many stories), and Garnett (which is very old, though maybe Kent's revision helps some). Turns out that in 2020 Susanne Fusso finished a new translation, without it ever being mentioned on /lit/. That's the same Fusso that revised Guerney's translation of Dead Souls, which was appraised by Nabokov (and also here: https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/gary-morson/the-pevearsion-of-russian-literature/).).

Did anyone have a chance to form an opinion about it yet?

>>17953680
>>17954431
Im sorry you both got duped.
https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/the-pevearsion-of-russian-literature/
http://www.thinkaloud.ru/feature/berdy-lan-PandV-e.html
https://www.librarything.com/topic/260074
https://readingroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/10/29/the-art-of-translation/#comment-206
http://languagehat.com/the-translation-wars/
http://languagehat.com/more-translation-wars/
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2016/06/23/socks-translating-anna-karenina/
http://languagehat.com/janet-malcolm-vs-pv/
https://kaggsysbookishramblings.wordpress.com/2013/06/01/why-i-dont-read-pevear-and-volokhonsky-vtranslations/
https://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2013/01/the-pevearvolokhonsky-hype-machine-and-how-it-could-have-been-stopped-or-at-least-slowed-down/

>>17945226
I read Constance Garnett for all the Russians. She is the best. P&V is a meme.
https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/the-pevearsion-of-russian-literature/
http://www.thinkaloud.ru/feature/berdy-lan-PandV-e.html
https://www.librarything.com/topic/260074
https://readingroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/10/29/the-art-of-translation/#comment-206
http://languagehat.com/the-translation-wars/
http://languagehat.com/more-translation-wars/
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2016/06/23/socks-translating-anna-karenina/
http://languagehat.com/janet-malcolm-vs-pv/
https://kaggsysbookishramblings.wordpress.com/2013/06/01/why-i-dont-read-pevear-and-volokhonsky-vtranslations/
https://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2013/01/the-pevearvolokhonsky-hype-machine-and-how-it-could-have-been-stopped-or-at-least-slowed-down/

>>17936247
P&V are absolute trash.

https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/the-pevearsion-of-russian-literature/
http://www.thinkaloud.ru/feature/berdy-lan-PandV-e.html
https://www.librarything.com/topic/260074
https://readingroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/10/29/the-art-of-translation/#comment-206
http://languagehat.com/the-translation-wars/
http://languagehat.com/more-translation-wars/
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2016/06/23/socks-translating-anna-karenina/
http://languagehat.com/janet-malcolm-vs-pv/
https://kaggsysbookishramblings.wordpress.com/2013/06/01/why-i-dont-read-pevear-and-volokhonsky-vtranslations/
https://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2013/01/the-pevearvolokhonsky-hype-machine-and-how-it-could-have-been-stopped-or-at-least-slowed-down/

Avsey, Schwartz, McDuff are all better.

https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/gary-morson/the-pevearsion-of-russian-literature/

Careful making these threads though there is a rabid p&v defender on this board only because his Russian lit prof said they're good (ESLs are the last people you want opining on English translations btw)

Today, I will remind them

https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/gary-morson/the-pevearsion-of-russian-literature/

>>17620899
https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/gary-morson/the-pevearsion-of-russian-literature/

pretty covers is why they win the translation wars

>>17596570
> Pevear and Volokhonsky

https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/the-pevearsion-of-russian-literature/
http://www.thinkaloud.ru/feature/berdy-lan-PandV-e.html
https://www.librarything.com/topic/260074
https://readingroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/10/29/the-art-of-translation/#comment-206
http://languagehat.com/the-translation-wars/
http://languagehat.com/more-translation-wars/
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2016/06/23/socks-translating-anna-karenina/
http://languagehat.com/janet-malcolm-vs-pv/
https://kaggsysbookishramblings.wordpress.com/2013/06/01/why-i-dont-read-pevear-and-volokhonsky-vtranslations/
https://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2013/01/the-pevearvolokhonsky-hype-machine-and-how-it-could-have-been-stopped-or-at-least-slowed-down/

>>/lit/?task=search&ghost=&search_text=pevearsion

>>17431670
https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/the-pevearsion-of-russian-literature/
http://www.thinkaloud.ru/feature/berdy-lan-PandV-e.html
https://www.librarything.com/topic/260074
https://readingroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/10/29/the-art-of-translation/#comment-206
http://languagehat.com/the-translation-wars/
http://languagehat.com/more-translation-wars/
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2016/06/23/socks-translating-anna-karenina/
http://languagehat.com/janet-malcolm-vs-pv/
https://kaggsysbookishramblings.wordpress.com/2013/06/01/why-i-dont-read-pevear-and-volokhonsky-vtranslations/
https://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2013/01/the-pevearvolokhonsky-hype-machine-and-how-it-could-have-been-stopped-or-at-least-slowed-down/

Anyone who regularly browses Russian literature threads on here has inevitably run into posts that shit on P&V, and these posters usually backup their insults with articles that accuse P&V of being bad translators, the most notable one being Gary Saul Morson's "The Pevearsion of Russian Literature" hitpiece. Using these articles, the people who hate P&V vehemently argue that all of the love that P&V have received is shilling by critics who don't know any Russian and thus have no idea how to properly assess P&V's work. Some go even further, claiming that translators who know Russian despise P&V.

However, these claims are patently false. Here are five examples that refute the "no Slavic scholars like P&V" argument:
Caryl Emerson, a Slavic scholar who has translated Russian works into English, highly praised their translation of The Brothers Karamozov (see: https://www.jstor.org/stable/3851924?seq=1).).
Michael Henry Heim, another Slavist translator, loved their Dostoevsky translations (see: https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1994-10-16-bk-50750-story.html).).
Andrei Navrozov, a Russian who is the son of a translator, lauded their translation of TBK (see: https://www.nytimes.com/1990/11/11/books/dostoyevsky-with-all-the-music.html))
Joseph Frank, the leading Dostoevsky scholar who wrote the definitive Dostoevsky biography, said of their translation of TBK: "[I] [h]eartily [recommend it] to any reader who wishes to come as close to Dostoevsky’s Russian as it is possible." (he provided this blurb for the publication of their translation of TBK).
Angela Livingstone, a Pasternak scholar who wrote a book on Doctor Zhivago and has translated some of Pasternak's texts, was impressed with their translation of Doctor Zhivago (see her "Meaning Every Word of It" article that was published in The Times Literary Supplement)
And there are plenty of other people who are intimately familiar with the Russian language and Russian literature who have praised P&V.

1/2

>>17104892
the common criticism is that they miss out the spirit of the text in striving for accuracy. this is a good read
https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/gary-morson/the-pevearsion-of-russian-literature/

Dostoevsky start with either Crime and Punishment or Notes from the Underground. Avoid the Pevear and Volkhonsky translations at all costs. They are a modernist mess that drains all the beauty of the tone and prose for the sake of "Dark humor". Stick with Garnett there is a reason her translations have stood the test of time. Translations will make or break your experience. https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/gary-morson/the-pevearsion-of-russian-literature/

>>16688129
>>16688076
I've only read P&V for translations of major russian works because that's what my russian lit professor recommended and had us read (I think I read one book translated by McAndrew but it was a post soviet novel, still good though)

I've heard both online and anecdotally that P&V aren't that great. My friend read a translation of some story by Gogol for a class at a different uni, his professor was a polish woman while mine was an american, I think Nevsky Prospekt, Anyway, my friend told me that in Nevsky Prospekt the protagonist's name has something to do with a pastry, and there's a key scene in the story where he eats the pastry he's named after and overcomes himself something like that, I can't say for sure since I haven't read it. But my friend said that P&V's translation doesn't indicate that the protag and the pastry have the same name, unlike the translation that he read. Is this a real issue? And what about the article "The Pevearsion of Russian Literature" by Morson? Does the author of that article have serious criticisms? I'm only asking because I don't know anyone aside from my professor who reads in russian, so I'm curious to see what the deal is

>>16423232
Not P&V
https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/gary-morson/the-pevearsion-of-russian-literature/

>>16258921
There is one critical error in that pasta: P&V are the complete opposite of scholars caring about accuracy. They've always had their own unique ideas about translation, but their creations have still infested the whole African-American continent.

>>16259812
In principle, “revised” means it's still Garnett's translation, but someone very well studied has fixed some mistakes (like choosing a bit more proper name for a certain type of a horse carriage or piece of clothing), misprints, or accidental gaps, and probably rephrased some sentences that use dated language where there is no difference in original style. If you're fixing the style of the whole thing, you are making your own translation, as you'd have to revise basically everything. On the one hand, most of it can be done with footnotes. On the other hand, you can have copy rights for new work, and advertise it as revised on the cover. Whether you might want to choose it depends on how humble the editors are in their foreword, and what reviewers say about their work in professional journals.

>>16262385
There's more.

https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/the-pevearsion-of-russian-literature/
http://www.thinkaloud.ru/feature/berdy-lan-PandV-e.html
https://www.librarything.com/topic/260074
https://readingroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/10/29/the-art-of-translation/#comment-206
http://languagehat.com/the-translation-wars/
http://languagehat.com/more-translation-wars/
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2016/06/23/socks-translating-anna-karenina/
http://languagehat.com/janet-malcolm-vs-pv/
https://kaggsysbookishramblings.wordpress.com/2013/06/01/why-i-dont-read-pevear-and-volokhonsky-vtranslations/
https://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2013/01/the-pevearvolokhonsky-hype-machine-and-how-it-could-have-been-stopped-or-at-least-slowed-down/

>>/lit/?task=search&ghost=&search_text=pevearsion

avsey's idiot & karamazov are definitely the best
slater and ready also have good c&p's

>>16258669
https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/gary-morson/the-pevearsion-of-russian-literature/
https://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2013/01/the-pevearvolokhonsky-hype-machine-and-how-it-could-have-been-stopped-or-at-least-slowed-down

still, don't worry about it

>>16254301
>don't fall for the 'Demons' Pevear meme
heh XD le pevearsion XDDD "spiteful" ;))) not "wicked" ;DDD