/lit/ - Literature

The official Mom Protagonist SFF List.
I apologize for the lengthy (ie autistic) list. I may update it later.
>Caught in Crystal (1987) by Patricia Wrede
>The Interior Life (1990) by Katherine Blake
>Raven's Duology (2004-2005) by Patricia Briggs
>Wolfblade Trilogy (2004-2005) by Jennifer Fallon
>Bridge of D'Arnath (2004-2005) by Carol Berg
>The World Gates Trilogy (2004-2005) By Holly Lisle, Arhel trilogy and Minerva Wakes too
>Dragonsbane (1985) by Barbara Hambly
>Paladin of Souls and Vorkosigan saga by Lois McMaster Bujold
>Sunrunner Saga (1988-1993) by Melanie Rawn. Mommy Sioned best yandere girl
>The Empire Trilogy (1987-1992) by Janny Wurts
>Liveship Traders (1998-200) by Robin Hobb
>Birthgrave (1975-1978) by Tanith Lee
>Heart of Bronze (1997-1998) by Matthew Stover
>Karavans Trilogy (2006-2012) by Jennifer Roberson
>Skinwalkers (2014) by Wendy N. Wagner, ex-pirate Axe wielding mom!
>Frostfell (2006) by Mark Sehestedt
>Legacy of Steel (1998) by Mary H. Herbert
>The Traitor Spy Trilogy (2010-2012) by Trudi Canavan
>Sevenwaters Trilogy (1999-2001) by Juliet Marillier
>Blood songs (1987) by Robin Wayne Bailey
>Bloodsong Trilogy (1985-1986) by Asa Drake
>Gypsies (1988) by Robert Charles Wilson
>Child of Time (1991) by Robert Silverberg
>The Wayfarer Redemption (1995-1999) by Sara Douglass
>The Forgotten Beasts of Eld (1974) by Patricia A. McKillip
>The Keys to Paradise Trilogy (1987-1988) by Robert Vardeman, trio of mcs all of the same importance, veterans of the Trans-War that ravaged the country, one of them is a cat-girl who saves a slave kid and adopts him
>Bitter Angels (2009) by C.L Anderson
>The Great Wheel (1987) by Joyce Ballou Gregorian
>Daughter of the Bear King (1987) by Eleanor Arnason
>Night-Threads series by Ru Emerson, portal fantasy about a druggie mom, her sister and her teenage son.
>Frostflower adn Thorn (1980) Phyllis Ann Karr
>Fifth Millenium by S.M. Stirling, Shirley Meier, and Karen Wehrstein
>Spellsong Cycle (1997-2002) by L.E. Modesitt Jr
>The Sword of Lyric by Sharon Hinck, christian portal fantasy about a soccer mom and her son fighting against Not-Satan
>Cradle of Sea and Soill (2020) by Bernie Anes Paz
>Boneshaker (2009) Cherie Priest
>The Gap Cycle by Stephen Donaldson, absolute grimdark kino but like most of Donaldson's work it has a happy ending, the main characters just have to go through hell to get it.
>Dragon Gate by Lindsay Buroker, a six book epic about a Mother-son duo
>Memories of Ice (2001 Book 3 of Malazan Book of the Fallen) by Steven Erikson
>To Sail Beyond the Sunset (1987) by Robert Heinlein
>The War Eternal by Rob J Hayes
>Black Jewels by Anne Bishop
I'm open to any suggestions for SFF books with mom mc
And Kate Elliott's new Mom protagonist book the Keeper's Six.
BakkerWolfeVance is king etc.

>>23482194
Wolfe, John Crowley, old pulps like Vance and Howard, Robin Hobb, Susanna Clarke. If it reads like a D&D campaign book, I don't particularly care for it.

>>23470706
What are you talking about? I just pointed out that there are lots of examples of invasive Norsemen in fantasy books and anon asked for some examples. You should try reading Robin Hobb and Gene Wolfe. They are a lot more interesting than Le Guin or GRRM.

>>23470572
Ah, the classic "canned cope" response.
>>23470582
Yes. I mean Christian in a moral/cultural context, not literally believing in god. Western society is still very much based on Christian ideas/morals/tropes. If you think otherwise you're an idiot. I'm an atheist myself but we live in a Christian-derived culture, and it runs deep. Despite "muh wuxia" and a bit of taoism (and again, eastern infusions are not uncommon in magic systems), Earthsea's magic slides right in with all the other fantasy stuff. Again I'm not saying it's bad, it's just nothing supremely unusual.
>Name some examples.
The ones that come immediately to mind are Robin Hobb's books (Farseer etc), Dave Duncan's books about some guy called Durendal, Gene Wolfe's Wizard/Knight, and Game of Thrones etc. That's just what pops into my head, and I haven't even read all that many fantasy books. They all have invasive Norsemen.
>>23470584
Cope. I have nothing against Jews.

Is Robin Hobb any good? Gurm loves to suck her clit and i hear he ripped off the skinchanging system from her

>>23459746
Robin Hobb I guess with the Fool.

>>23399663
Same
Here are some female fantasy authors that i think are good, chuddies beware
Books of Raksura by Martha Wells
Fortress in The Eye of Time and Morgaine Cycle by C.J Cherryh
Inda by Sherwood Smith
Rai-Kirah, The Bridge of D'Arnath and Song of the Beast by Carol Berg
Dragonriders of Pern
Deverry by Katharine Kerr
Essalieyan by Michelle Sagara West
Janny Wurts
Dragonsbane by Barbara Hambly
Dragon Prince and Dragon Star trilogies by Melanie Rawn
Crown of Stars and Crossroads trilogy by Kate Elliott
Sword-Dancer, Cheysuli and Karavans by Jennifer Robertson
Juliet Marillier
Robin Hobb
Irene Radford
Nightrunner by Llyn Flewelling
Last of the Renshai and Bifrost Guardians by Mickey Zucker Reichert
Trinity and The Quickening bye Fiona Mcintosh
Havenstar, Isles of Glory and The Mirage Makers by Glenda Larke
Elemental Logic bye Laurie J Marks
Fool's Gold by Jude Fisher
Valdemar by Mercedes Lackey
Wolfblade and Demon Child by Jennifer Fallon
Tears of Artamon by Sarah Ash
The Witches of Eileanan by Kate Forsyth
Symphony of the Ages by Elizabeth Haydon
The Deed of Paksenarrion by Elizabeth Moon
Ash: Secret History by Mary Gentle
i'm probably forgetting a lot of other fantasy authors but these are the ones i remember right now

Burrich by Megan Lindholm - whoops, sorry make that manly macho man Robin Hobb.

>>23391398
I forced myself to finish Liveship Traders. It felt like a chore all the way through. The raping did not save it for me. I liked the farseer trilogy, but I am not reading more shit from this author.

Fuck you to anyone that recommends Robin Hobb. Fuck female characters and their problems. And fuck women in general.

>1800s-1970s
>jules verne
>lord dunsany
>cl moore
>edgar rice burroughs
>robert e howard
>fritz leiber
>jack vance
>alfred bester
>michael moorcock

>70s-90s
>le guin
>gene wolf
>william gibson
>orson scott card
>glen cook
>robin hobb

>00s+
>guy gavriel kay
>rs bakker
>joe abercrombie
>ml wang
>nnedi okorafor
>emma newman
>pierce brown

if you read maybe 200 pages from each of these authors you're mostly caught up on the genre. i would say avoid if you can stuff that is long for the sake of selling more books and building a big world, but it's very hard to avoid.

never read a book to its end if you're bored, skip through, and stick to things around 200-300 pages. there is nothing you can say in 800pages+ you could not have said in 300, brevity is the sign of a good writer. the short story is king ESPECIALLY IF YOU ARE A ZOOMER READING THIS DONT GET BAITED BY SOMETHING LIKE MALAZAAN

Late mother's day post
Polgara best mom
The official Mom MC SFF List.
I apologize for the lengthy (ie autistic) list
>Caught in Crystal (1987) by Patricia Wrede
>The Interior Life (1990) by Katherine Blake
>Raven's Duology (2004-2005) by Patricia Briggs
>Wolfblade Trilogy (2004-2005) by Jennifer Fallon
>Bridge of D'Arnath (2004-2005) by Carol Berg
>The World Gates Trilogy (2004-2005) By Holly Lisle, She wrote Minerva Wakes and the Arhel trilogy, those two books also have mom mc
>Dragonsbane (1985) by Barbara Hambly
>Paladin of Souls and Vorkosigan saga by Lois McMaster Bujold
>Sunrunner Saga (1988-1993) by Melanie Rawn. Mommy Sioned best yandere girl
>The Empire Trilogy (1987-1992) by Janny Wurts
>Liveship Traders (1998-200) by Robin Hobb
>Birthgrave (1975-1978) by Tanith Lee
>Heart of Bronze (1997-1998) by Matthew Stover
>Karavans Trilogy (2006-2012) by Jennifer Roberson
>Skinwalkers (2014) by Wendy N. Wagner, about an ex-pirate Axe wielding mom!
>Frostfell (2006) by Mark Sehestedt
>Legacy of Steel (1998) by Mary H. Herbert
>The Traitor Spy Trilogy (2010-2012) by Trudi Canavan
>Sevenwaters Trilogy (1999-2001) by Juliet Marillier
>Blood songs (1987, third book in the Frost trilogy) by Robin Wayne Bailey
>Bloodsong Trilogy (1985-1986) by Asa Drake
>Gypsies (1988) by Robert Charles Wilson
>Child of Time (1991) by Robert Silverberg
>The Wayfarer Redemption (1995-1999) by Sara Douglass, by book three almost every character is pregnant, after book three there's a 20 year time-skip so all the mcs have grown-up children
>The Forgotten Beasts of Eld (1974) by Patricia A. McKillip
>The Keys to Paradise Trilogy (1987-1988) by Robert Vardeman, trio of mcs all of the same importance, veterans of the Trans-War that ravaged the country, one of them is a cat-girl who saves a slave kid and adopts him
>Bitter Angels (2009) by C.L Anderson
>The Great Wheel (1987, book three of the Tredana Trilogy) by Joyce Ballou Gregorian
>Daughter of the Bear King (1987) by Eleanor Arnason
>Night-Threads series by Ru Emerson, portal fantasy about a druggie mom, her sister and her teenage son.
>Frostflower adn Thorn (1980) Phyllis Ann Karr
>Fifth Millenium by S.M. Stirling, Shirley Meier, and Karen Wehrstein
>Spellsong Cycle (1997-2002) by L.E. Modesitt Jr
>The Sword of Lyric by Sharon Hinck, christian portal fantasy about a soccer mom and her son fighting against Not-Satan
>Cradle of Sea and Soill (2020) by Bernie Anes Paz
>Boneshaker (2009) Cherie Priest
>The Gap Cycle by Stephen Donaldson, absolute grimdark kino but like most of Donaldson's work it has a happy ending, the main characters just have to go through hell to get it.
>Dragon Gate by Lindsay Buroker, a six book epic about a Mother-son duo
>Memories of Ice (2001 Book 3 of Malazan Book of the Fallen) by Steven Erikson
>To Sail Beyond the Sunset (1987) by Robert Heinlein
I'm open to any suggestions for SFF books with mom mcs
And Kate Elliott's new Mom protagonist book the Keeper's Six.
BakkerWolfeVance is king etc.

>LAST READ
Shaman's Crossing (Robin Hobb). Didn't enjoy it. The main character didn't show any growth during the story, and lots of parts dragged on. I probably won't continue the series.

>READING
Killing Floor (Lee Child). Not SFF, but I needed something light to read while traveling and found a cheap copy somewhere. Decent pulp.

>NEXT
The Last Wish (Andrzej Sapkowski). Never played the Witcher games but heard the stories are decent.

>>23318021
Robin Hobb or Janny Wurts

>>23252282
>Conan is dogshit
>Dune is dogshit
>Tolkien is dogshit
>Robin Hobb is dogshit
>Belgariad is dogshit
>Earthsea is dogshit
>Riftwar is dogshit
Wut.

>>23252364
>This is an underrated option
I'm a diehard fan, and honestly believe it's the best way to experience the series.

>>23239718
A third issue is also the Bing Bong Bazoopafication of the genre, where your casuals and tourists expect shitty D&D tropes and are absolutely filtered by any variety outside of that or the spells of crying and weeks of depression that come from reading any given Robin Hobb series. They have a limited image of what fantasy was and is and anything outside their Overton window makes them cope, seethe, and dial8; as the kids are saying.

I think we could fit second and third order fiction in there as well, as a kind of counterargument. Your Undertales that are like a game that isn't a game based on fanfiction of a game that doesn't exist. Your lesbian orcs that run a coffee shop. litrpg. The fantasy we're shitting on was based on D&D campagins based on books based on books by Tolkien. It's too Academic Contemporary Art for me, even when done well. Most don't recognize that it isn't good or hide behind the irony that it isn't supposed to be.

Given that, the only thing to do is do that consciously and with some skill in order to pull a Borges, or make fantasy more real and start over.

>>23239756
I hate to say it, but even reasonably intelligent men my age can't read or don't know why you would. It's a shame women have shit taste and can't appreciate the peaks of literature, because that's all there are reading now.

The most beautiful, varied and difficult prose in fantasy? Tolkien, Le Guin, Wolfe, Peake, old guys like Lord Dunsany, maybe Bakker, Hobb, Williams. Who else?

>>23182775
Go with Hobb first, it's split into trilogies so you get a lot of natural places to take a pause. So if you wanted you could read Farseer and then go read Malazan or something else. Hell even the books end well enough to not compel you to immediately keep reading.
With Malazan I think you'd want to read it all in one go to try and keep it coherent in your head.
And after the first trilogy (which is good) you get to read Liveship which is one of the absolute best fantasy trilogies.

>>23161059
You need to go on the website. Lovecraft has one, though it isn't complete. Howard definitely needs one. I think LeGuinn will get anthologies eventually, regardless of how I feel about it. Didion getting one is more in line with someone who was only recently dead getting the honor and actually deserving it. That being dead thing is a joke about the LoA selection process among living authors, by the way.

A bunch of authors have token canon, numbered works but rights hold it back. My dark horse contemporary pick would be Chuck Palahninuk. He more than meets the criteria for the most part and his short stories are worthy. The whole movement he came from is dead and not remembered. Expect 70s and 80s favorites like Updike and contemporaries to get the full treatment as people my age and older visit or revisit their work in light of contemporary mediocrity.

You want something that will at least get a paperback? Women in Sci Fi and fantasy before the 70s. The original pulp queens. I'm stodgy with genre nominees, maybe Robin Hobb if her work stays relevant and her back catalog has anything to offer.

Piranesi is a good contemporary nightcap to SFF after you finish BotNS. I can't rec any other fantasy unless you like it written by women and doing things gin and tequila do to men and women differently. Robin Hobb and Diana Wynne Jones's Castle trilogy. In that order. You're going to need something light after Hobb if you read Farseer.

Then you can just focus on literature and go back to Tolkien and he sagas from time to time.

>>23135181
It took you a whole day to say "nah, he'd win"? Anyway, let's start fresh. Robin Hobb. Now there's someone with characters that spring to life. Obviously, you gotta start with her first book. Fitz goes through it all, but so does everyone he's ever met, too. It's actually a bit of a headache how complicated everybody's state of mind can be. Except for the villain. He's just a bastard... but not literally. That's Fitz, and his incredibly distorted but still reliable point of view is deeply marred by a lifetime of being called every name in the book and deserving half of them. I think one reason his stories are so popular is just how relatable his hardships can be for some, but nevertheless, he persists.

What even is your definition of epic fantasy?

>>23131444
>Robert E Howard does cheap thrills better
good for him
>Robin Hobb does characters better
maybe haven't tried yet, adding it to my list
>Dragonlance does ... well it does something
lol ok
>John Carter does cheap thrills better
ok
>Catholic fantasy
what even is that and whats the metric for "better" "Catholic fantasy"?

so you got no author that did epic fantasy better?
ok I guess, thanks for wasting everybody's time

>>23130531
You would just say it doesn't if we did, you groupthink fuck, but ... Robert E Howard does action better, Robin Hobb does characters better, Dragonlance does religion and evil better, John Carter does romance better and Gene Wolfe did Catholic fantasy better. Nevertheless, I do admire Tolkien. Read another book.

>>23119143
Weil: Gravity and Grace
Hobb: Assassins Apprentice

>>23119102
Heard of all those except for Weil and Hobb. What are some books of theirs I should get into?