/lit/ - Literature

Any traditionalists who are anti-guenonian? Or at least critical of Guenon?
There must be something wrong with Guenon's thought if he abandoned all Eastern and Western traditions. And the fact that he's only pushed by pseuds.

So I posted a few questions the other day in the thread about Rene Guenon that hasn't been answered.
I will list my post which contains the questions that never got answered:

Explain to me how is this shit (I'm talking about traditionalism in general) any different from some fucking new age schizophrenic bs? If you're into it why wouldn't you read the holy texts and the likes and try to interpret yourself? Why would you want to read into these con-artists' primitive bamboo shit? Aesthetics... maybe? I am genuinely curious.(first post)

Why would you want and\or need to read into a philosophy that is proceeded from false premises?
Why would you want and\or need to read into a philosophy that is anti-historical?
Why would you want and\or need to read into a philosophy that is unverifiable?
Why would you want and\or need to read into a philosophy that incorrectly interprets "tradition"?

As I assumed in my previous post might be some petty aesthetical reasoning. But that is some fascist-kshatriyas type of aesthetics. If you're into it, just go masturbate to the Italian army uniform, wild tigers and ancients statues while reading some actually good books.

If you want to read something that is similar to traditionalism -- read german romanticists (Novalis, Schlegel, Franz Hoffman). Guenon (like a huge number of modern neopagans by the way) was essentially inspired by them, adopted a lot from them, in fact, the very tone of traditionalism comes precisely from romanticism.
You can read ancient Icelandic literature, eddic songs and skaldic poetry, sagas, read academic studies on runology, mythology, history of Germanic peoples.
You can read Russian religious philosophy.
Or, if you want something radically different, start to study mathematics and logic.
If you normally master at least one of these topics, you can already develop your own metaphysics, which, believe me, will be much deeper and more original than the screwy shit of traditionalism, while being based not from scratch. (second post)

And also there is one question I have, could you please answer me this:
If a tradition as a supra-human reality, acting like an "electric" lattice that structures the "magnetic" fields of human substance, is so global and universal, why does it degenerate into its own opposite? How is it that the global, universal system of traditionalism -- the fundamental norm -- loses control over society, some part of it (say, Europe, which, as a result, becomes the most powerful, most “overdeveloped”, most aggressive)? And then what happens is what Guenon calls “invasion” in one of his books. There is an invasion of traditional civilizations, which, figuratively speaking, still survive on the sidelines of this poisonous center of profanity. And in the end, the whole world at some point becomes profane, which can be considered as the completion of the entire cycle and the last link of Kali Yuga.

>Look, these two religions share similar ideas, they must originate from a single primordial Tradition! Why you ask? How do you know this truly Traditional you may ask, muh metaphysics and obscurantism of course! Muh Absolute god bhaktimarha logos is the proof and you’re just an exoteric pleb if you don’t understand
HEIL ODIN

Is there a bigger meme than Traditionalism?

a website with lists of the writings, articles, books etc by various Traditionalists

http://www.worldwisdom.com/public/authors/Rene-Guenon.aspx

traditionalist blog

https://www.gornahoor.net/

>[Evola] told me Mussolini had asked him to write a new racial theory in order to counter that of Rosenberg. It would be the "Fascist racism," different from "Nazi racism"… And thus that entire brilliant Evolian concept...was born that he labelled with the antipathetic term of "traditional."
>Something churned within me when I heard this word, as if before the presence of an intellectual social climbing, a literary vulgarity. This concept has been taken by Evola from Guenon...
>The "traditionalist" Rene Guenon...ended his days converted to Semitic Mohammedanism…

What did he mean by this?

Lets have a thread about Traditionalism

This movement was (and remains) deliberately syncretic because when you identify the primary forms or archetypes with a symbolic and mythic structure (as ALL of the traditions I just outlined did), you get a philosophy and history of religion that makes all traditions into particular instantiations of underlying immutable principles (as all of the traditions I just outlined concluded). Just read _The Oriental Renaissance_ by Schwab, which was praised highly by Mircea Eliade, about whom both Guenon and Evola complained in correspondence that he was a Guenonian Traditionalist who wouldn't cop to the fact and that he was getting credit for Guenon's ideas especially. Eliade agreed; so Guenon, Evola, and Eliade agree that Eliade is a reasonably faithful transposition of Guenonian philosophy, and Eliade embraces Schwab's diagnosis of syncretic, Fruhromantik neo-Platonism as the basis of the Traditionalist worldview, e.g., as its syncretic neo-Platonist framework effortlessly reduces and re-appropriates Hinduism, Islam, Platonism, and everything else to be simply an emanation of its own "central, really real" myths and archetypes. That is why "Hinduism looks like neo-Platonism," a favourite line of Traditionalists -- real similarities between the two systems, perhaps owing to some real underlying Indo-European metaphysics, are in fact bowled over and destroyed by Traditionalism's extremely lazy neo-Platonist framework, which has been called "all-reducing." Traditionalists did not save or invent the method of comparative religions -- they killed it, and laminated its corpse.

I will dedicate this thread to give some context to Swedish Traditionalists and Traditionalist-related writers.

>Ivan Aguéli
Born 1869 in a small Swedish city, he barely got passing grades until he dedicated himself to painting. He traveled to Gotland where he came into his own as a painter. He read Swedenborg and various Sufi writers, taught himself Arabic and eventually converted to Sunni Islam, becoming a sufi. In Paris he also initiated René Guénon into sufism. He traveled and read extensively, having traveled around Europe and the Middle East as well as taking a trip to Sri Lanka, and having read countless books in Hebrew, French, Arabic and Swedish. Since he preceded Guénon he can be considered more of a proto-Traditionalist. He wrote articles for esoteric and Islamic magazines and had extensive correspondences with famous European artists, but he never published a full book. His most notable contribution is his art and the impact he had on Guénon's spirituality.

>Tage Lindbom
Born in 1909, he became a socialist active in the Swedish labour movement, eventually earning some recognition and fame for his involvement and influence with the Swedish Social Democrats. Having suffered a religious crisis he was introduced to the works of Guénon and Schuon by Almqvist. He later met with and befriended Schuon, converting to sufi Islam and becoming a secret practicing Muslim. Later in life he surrounded himself with younger, more radical Muslim immigrants and became a sort of spiritual guide for them. He was said there was no one in Sweden who was more conservative than him. He wrote extensively about Traditionalism and Islam, and heavily criticized modernity and democracy.

>Kurt Almqvist
Also initiated by Schuon, he converted to sufi Islam and wrote critiques of modernity. He was also extremely well read in Jung and Jungian studies, publishing essays and translations of Jung's works. By all accounts he was a kind and spiritually sensitive man, publishing poetry and assisting others in their academic endeavours.

>Mohammed Omar / Eddie Råbock
Not a Traditionalist per se, he converted to Islam as a teenager and became involved with radical political Islam later in life. He has written extensively on topics of sufism and Traditionalism, and he is perhaps the foremost scholar of Ivan Aguéli. He abandoned Islam recently and has become critical of its radical political dimensions, taking the name Eddie instead of Mohammed.

>2017
>wanna start reading books
>Start with Evola and Guenon cuz the /pol/ meme
>mind is blown, think I just read the wokest shit ever written
>go back and slog through everything from the greeks to contemporary philosophy
>re-read Evola
>realize it was just intellectualized new-age bullshit from the beginning
>realize all ideology is nonsense
>realize the only ideology that matters is pragmatism
Who else has grown out of the Traditionalism meme?

I have picked up bits and pieces and i'm ready to take my first dive. What are two works i need to read as my initiation into this philosophy? Is Evola really the entry level?

The last thread was a success, so let's have another.

Previous thread: >>13401233

Thread for discussing the ideas and books of thinkers associated with the Traditionalist school, sometimes also known as the Perennialist school. Including but not limited to:
- Rene Guenon
- Martin Lings
- Seyyed Hossein Nasr
- Frithjof Schuon
- Ananda K. Coomaraswamy
- Julius Evola
- Titus Burckhardt
- Philip Sherrard
- Jean Borella
- Marco Pallis
- Whitall Perry etc.
Also thinkers indirectly affiliated, influenced by, or similar to Traditionalism:
- Henry Corbin
- William Chittick
- Mircea Eliade
- Arthur Avalon etc
Here is a short video summary of what Traditionalists believe:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kDtabTufxao
Here's a documentary on Perennialism:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=135s&v=P_CNg4dpU54
An hour long interview with Julius Evola (sorry about the stupid intermission):
https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=611s&v=QiCtdi5nCoA
And lastly, a talk by the most eminent Traditionalist around today:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fIjW1z-ZAX8
Harry Oldmeadow speaking at the Sacred Web Conference 2006
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnsXKtE5PNI
Seyyed Hosein Nasr speaking at the Sacred Web Conference 2006
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20nuTITfhko
Prince Charles on Tradition (Part 1)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnnXKmGQ4nI
Prince Charles on Traditionalism (Part 2)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zITpU225cG4

Thread for discussing the ideas and books of thinkers associated with the Traditionalist school, sometimes also known as the Perennialist school. Including but not limited to:
- Rene Guenon
- Martin Lings
- Seyyed Hossein Nasr
- Frithjof Schuon
- Ananda K. Coomaraswamy
- Julius Evola
- Titus Burckhardt
- Philip Sherrard
- Jean Borella
- Marco Pallis etc
Also thinkers indirectly affiliated, influenced by, or similar to Traditionalism:
- Henry Corbin
- William Chittick
- Mircea Eliade
- Arthur Avalon etc
Here is a short video summary of what Traditionalists believe:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kDtabTufxao
Here's a documentary on Perennialism:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=135s&v=P_CNg4dpU54
An hour long interview with Julius Evola (sorry about the stupid intermission):
https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=611s&v=QiCtdi5nCoA
And lastly, a talk by the most eminent Traditionalist around today:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fIjW1z-ZAX8

Who are some great thinkers and writers to read during a time when acadamia is run amok by cultural marxist clowns?

Hello friends. I would like to discuss traditionalism in this thread and also pose the question, is it okay to read Man and his Becoming according to the Vedanta if I haven't yet read Studies in Hinduism? I am more concerned with the metaphysics and not with Hinduism itself necessarily.

I have become interested in the practice of the ascetic and traditionalism as explained in the works of Evola. Can anyone elaborate on some practical guidance that i can emulate (i.e Meditation, things i could do) to follow the ascetic path. I find too much abstraction in his writings, i haven't found any solid suggestions as to what to do to enter asceticism and progress towards an enlightened path.

I had been doing no-fap since coming across his works and strengthening my will through exercise to which i have found, every time i resist a burning temptation to corrupt my self (by my own judgement of what is corrupt) I feel a sort of ascension as to which he describes. Can anyone else elaborate on these themes?

>tra·di·tion·al·ism
>/trəˈdiSHənlˌizəm,trəˈdiSHnəˌlizəm/
>noun
>the upholding or maintenance of tradition, especially so as to resist change.
>HISTORICAL
>the theory that all moral and religious truth comes from divine revelation passed on by tradition, human reason being incapable of attaining it.

Since there isn't one in the catalog, I'm taking the liberty of making one. The regular Guenon posters can feel free to post whatever links and copypastas they like. But I'd like to start off the thread with some critical remarks and questions from a Christian POV. Hopefully this will stave off some of the annoying shitposters who like to claim these threads as some sort of hivemind or even more laughably as one guy, the so called guenonfag, holding a conversation with himself. While I do find that the guenon posters can be a little too dogmatic, they are far more tolerable and open to dialogue than the shitposters whom I haven't seen contribute anything besides either whining or diverting the discussion to offtopic things like their pet favorite philosopher or occultist.

Anyway, Guenon claims that Christianity originally was consistent with his concept of esoteric tradition, but over time degenerated and lost this esoteric core, and that therefore Christianity has basically lost its traditional legitimacy. But I wonder, at what point in history did Christianity have this esoteric-initiatic filiation? The Apostolic varieties of Christianity have always been more or less stable, besides Catholicism, but in their case we know when they developed which doctrines and why since they documented this themselves. For the other apostolic denominations (e.g. Orthodox, Coptic, Armenian etc), what they teach now is basically what they have always taught, and the religion as they practice is the religion as they have always practiced it. From this we should conclude that either
1. Christianity was never traditionally legitimate.
or
2. Guenon's esoteric thesis is basically wrong, or a gross exaggeration.

continued in next post

If I keep reading Guenon will i eventually turn into a theist?

Ok, then. Let's give it another shot. Some people suggested I change the thread title, but I decided against it. These are trad threads. Take it or leave it.

Thread for discussing the ideas and books of thinkers associated with the Traditionalist school, sometimes also known as the Perennialist school. Including but not limited to:
- Rene Guenon
- Martin Lings
- Seyyed Hossein Nasr
- Frithjof Schuon
- Ananda K. Coomaraswamy
- Julius Evola
- Titus Burckhardt
- Philip Sherrard
- Wolfgang Smith
- Jean Borella
- Marco Pallis etc
Also thinkers indirectly affiliated, influenced by, or similar to Traditionalism:
- Henry Corbin
- William Chittick
- Mircea Eliade
- Arthur Avalon
- Alain Danielou
- Seraphim Rose
- David Bentley Hart
- Algis Uzdavinys etc

Here is a short video summary of what Traditionalists believe:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kDtabTufxao

Here's a cheesy documentary on Perennialism:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=135s&v=P_CNg4dpU54

An hour long interview with Julius Evola (sorry about the stupid intermission):
https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=611s&v=QiCtdi5nCoA

Here's a short text on the exoteric-esoteric distinction:
http://www.fatuma.net/text/Haqiqa_and_Sharia_in_Islam_by_Rene_Guenon.pdf

Here's an exchange of letters between an Islamic Traditionalist and a Christian critical of traditionalism, specifically debating over the idea of non-dualism (I particularly enjoyed this exchange):
http://www.sacredweb.com/online_articles/sw17_bolton-upton.pdf

Guenon's Books
https://archive.org/details/reneguenon


Any posters contributing other resources for learning about traditionalism, especially oc, or resources for learning about the various world traditions are appreciated. That means anything from copypasta, to reading charts, to helpful links etc. This is an effortposter zone.

Original OP here. I'm back from my Ramadan break, decided to give these threads another shot. How have things been in my absence?

Thread for discussing the ideas and books of thinkers associated with the Traditionalist school, sometimes also known as the Perennialist school. Including but not limited to:
- Rene Guenon
- Martin Lings
- Seyyed Hossein Nasr
- Frithjof Schuon
- Ananda K. Coomaraswamy
- Julius Evola
- Titus Burckhardt
- Philip Sherrard
- Wolfgang Smith
- Jean Borella
- Marco Pallis etc
Also thinkers indirectly affiliated, influenced by, or similar to Traditionalism:
- Henry Corbin
- William Chittick
- Mircea Eliade
- Arthur Avalon
- Alain Danielou
- Algis Uzdavinys etc

Here is a short video summary of what Traditionalists believe:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kDtabTufxao

Here's a documentary on Perennialism:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=135s&v=P_CNg4dpU54

An hour long interview with Julius Evola (sorry about the stupid intermission):
https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=611s&v=QiCtdi5nCoA

And lastly, a talk by the most eminent Traditionalist around today:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fIjW1z-ZAX8

Here's a short text on the exoteric-esoteric distinction:
http://www.fatuma.net/text/Haqiqa_and_Sharia_in_Islam_by_Rene_Guenon.pdf

Here's an exchange of letters between an Islamic Traditionalist and a Christian critical of traditionalism, specifically debating over the idea of non-dualism (I particularly enjoyed this exchange):
http://www.sacredweb.com/online_articles/sw17_bolton-upton.pdf

Guenon's Books
https://archive.org/details/reneguenon


Any posters contributing other resources for learning about traditionalism, especially oc, or resources for learning about the various world traditions are appreciated.

Dancing roasties btfo

>Last thread
>>11099488
>First thread
>>11025235

Thread for discussing the ideas and books of thinkers associated with the Traditionalist school, sometimes also known as the Perennialist school. Including but not limited to:
- Rene Guenon
- Martin Lings
- Seyyed Hossein Nasr
- Frithjof Schuon
- Ananda K. Coomaraswamy
- Julius Evola
- Titus Burckhardt
- Philip Sherrard
- Marco Pallis etc
Also thinkers indirectly affiliated, influenced by, or similar to Traditionalism:
- Henry Corbin
- William Chittick
- Mircea Eliade
- Arthur Avalon
- Aleksandr Dugin etc

Here is a short video summary of what Traditionalists believe:
https://hooktube.com/watch?v=kDtabTufxao

Here's a documentary on Perennialism:
https://hooktube.com/watch?t=135s&v=P_CNg4dpU54

An hour long interview with Julius Evola (sorry about the stupid intermission):
https://hooktube.com/watch?t=611s&v=QiCtdi5nCoA

And lastly, a talk by the most eminent Traditionalist around today:
https://hooktube.com/watch?v=fIjW1z-ZAX8

>Last thread
>>11099488
>First thread
>>11025235

Thread for discussing the ideas and books of thinkers associated with the Traditionalist school, sometimes also known as the Perennialist school. Including but not limited to:
- Rene Guenon
- Martin Lings
- Seyyed Hossein Nasr
- Frithjof Schuon
- Ananda K. Coomaraswamy
- Julius Evola
- Titus Burckhardt
- Philip Sherrard
- Marco Pallis etc
Also thinkers indirectly affiliated, influenced by, or similar to Traditionalism:
- Henry Corbin
- William Chittick
- Mircea Eliade
- Arthur Avalon
- Aleksandr Dugin etc

Here is a short video summary of what Traditionalists believe:
https://hooktube.com/watch?v=kDtabTufxao

Here's a documentary on Perennialism:
https://hooktube.com/watch?t=135s&v=P_CNg4dpU54

An hour long interview with Julius Evola (sorry about the stupid intermission):
https://hooktube.com/watch?t=611s&v=QiCtdi5nCoA

And lastly, a talk by the most eminent Traditionalist around today:
https://hooktube.com/watch?v=fIjW1z-ZAX8

>Last thread
>>11049573
>First thread
>>11025235

Thread for discussing the ideas and books of thinkers associated with the Traditionalist school, sometimes also known as the Perennialist school. Including but not limited to:
- Rene Guenon
- Martin Lings
- Seyyed Hossein Nasr
- Frithjof Schuon
- Ananda K. Coomaraswamy
- Julius Evola
- Titus Burckhardt
- Philip Sherrard
- Marco Pallis etc
Also thinkers indirectly affiliated, influenced by, or similar to Traditionalism:
- Henry Corbin
- William Chittick
- Mircea Eliade
- Arthur Avalon etc

Here is a short video summary of what Traditionalists believe:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kDtabTufxao

Here's a documentary on Perennialism:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=135s&v=P_CNg4dpU54

An hour long interview with Julius Evola (sorry about the stupid intermission):
https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=611s&v=QiCtdi5nCoA

And lastly, a talk by the most eminent Traditionalist around today:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fIjW1z-ZAX8