/lit/ - Literature

>>15502005
In my view, it's rather an ethical claim than an argument. And the actual bias is to perceive and use them as a logical arguments.

Ethical utterances, at least most of them, when examined on the plain of logic, are stuffed with fallacies.

Of course, "to choose" is to act. As in the trolley problem where the one who decides to remain inactive spares himself from the role of the killer.

But back in the realm of common ethics, indeed, poetically, the one who will just contemplate the violation of justice chooses the side not of the violator, the criminal but generally the side of the evil.

>>15419837
Which is the entire point of the Trolley problem in the first place. It's a tool used to illustrate different moral ideals.

>>15364682
That's a fucking weird trolley problem meme.

>>15336454
>>15338533
I think it's something in the middle. An average novel or book will always say less than most philosophical works. Nevertheless, the more complex ideas can only be expressed through metaphoric writing, not the literal writing we are accustomed to on philosophy, what makes Plato, Kierkegaard, or even the Bible really complex and philosophical pieces of literature which, at the same time, are talking about multiple philosophical questions at the same time.
I came to believe that the real problem is when a philosopher tries to express a simple philosophical idea through metaphors only to appear profound (for example, the trolley problem).

>>15250283
not a book but once i told my ex about the trolley problem and the bitch said she would let me die to save some 5 literal who's i felt betrayed and dumped her I'm redpilled about women now and doomed to die alone

>>15227169
my dialetheist friend tends to fall back on it during discussions of ethics. morality has many seemingly incompatible intuitions: for instance with the trolley problems, our intuitions pull us both toward the deontological and the utilitarian solutions at the same time. we might opt for one over the other, but the fact that we can see where the other side is coming from and had trouble deciding shows the contradiction. any moral problem that is ambiguous in its solution, he says, is dialetheic, since both opposing moral frameworks are true
im not a dialetheist btw, this is just what my friend believes. he is a phd candidate in philosophy

>>15226353
Obviously not, the trolley company would have to pay huge amounts of reparations to the relatives of the dead and those who survived but were perhaps injured. Not only that, but a dismissal of human life at that scale would become quite a PR problem, especially for a company that has customer service as one of their most important areas of focus. Not that it matters, because the person with the lever couldn't stop the trolley even if he wanted to. Even if he did somehow control the brakes of a mobile trolley by pulling a stationary lever which is in no way connected to the vehicle in question, the great mass of it would make an instantaneous stop near impossible. And in which way would the trolley company lose money by the trolley stopping. Perhaps it would cause a minor delay, but the possibility of the trolley either getting damaged by the bodies or meeting such resistance that it derailed would pose a much greater threat.

>>15224547
>but you've still got blood on your hands, and you'd have blood on your hands if you'd left the tracks where they were and let 10 men die: you're sullied by the very fact you knew about the trolley problem at all.
No you're not, it's not your fault, fuck the people who put that infrastructure there in the first place - which outside of the thought experiment of the trolley problem is a "Tragedy of the Commons" sort of thing with nebulous responsibility and not the blueprint planned super evil cartel folks want it to be.
>discovering new pieces of knowledge that will create no-win scenarios and leave me unhappy.
How much of that time do you spend looking for reverse trolley problems - solutions. Ways to unlock non-linear returns for the common good?
They're out there - have you been looking for them?

>>15224356
i can't stop dwelling on the idea that it's much harder to be a nice person when you know too much.
take the trolley problem for example: you may do utilitarian good by going over and switching the points so that 10 men are spared for the cost of 1 man's life, but you've still got blood on your hands, and you'd have blood on your hands if you'd left the tracks where they were and let 10 men die: you're sullied by the very fact you knew about the trolley problem at all.
if you had remained ignorant of the trolley and the switch (perhaps distracted by a passing bee), 10 men would have died but your hands would be clean. you would be the man who went for a walk and saw a bee, not the man who soaked his hands in blood for the greater good or the man who stood idly by and let 10 men die.

and yet despite this i spend all my time on the internet, i (metaphorically) making myself aware of more trolley problems, discovering new pieces of knowledge that will create no-win scenarios and leave me unhappy. and then in the process of overthinking that, in trying to systematize the problem i find myself even further away from the blissfully ignorant person i wish to be.

>>15145756
well

he refuses to pull the lever in the trolley problem

i wonder what he would do in the scenario of the doctor who has to choose between two patients who will die without respirators.

probably let both of them die, huh?

also he can't do triage.

How would Kant answer the trolley problem?

>>15028048
I guess we know where God stands on the trolley problem.

>>14991993
I can't tell what you're talking about, please explain.

>>14992008
Nah, moral philosophy is a bunch of bullshit, too. The government is a shitshow, but it does the job at the very least. I don't really have to give a fuck about the law or any nuances involved in it. I live in a first world country. On the most part, I can do my thing and get by just fine. How will debating the intricacies of the trolley problem enrich my life? I'm not a fucking judge, I'm a programmer. It won't.

>>14992015
Intellectual discussions are interesting for a time, but I quickly stop giving a fuck. I used to want to become a therapist because I find psych interesting and I thought helping people makes me happy, but then I realized I was lying to myself and caring about everyone was a drag. Expressing myself through art, having a significant other, being financially stable, the usual human pleasures, etc make me happy. All of these things are pretty simple when you break them down. Philosophy doesn't really enrich them for me.

>>14992034
At first I was just bored and wanted to fling something into the void, but now I'm kinda having fun, so no. Who knows, maybe I'll learn something?

>>14985791
bezos is literally the trolley problem manifest.

>>14947056
>not a question of free-will
You keep saying this because free-will undermines your argument. You want God's foreknowledge-of-events to undermine free-will but it doesn't. Free-will always prevents our actions and their "consequences" from tainting God's moral status. God created the world and it was good and man is free. We are not robots. Part of the price of freedom is risk, and hell is something we do to ourselves by our own choices. No problems here.

>Trolley problem
technically all the people on the track who sinned deserve to be run over. So it's not much of a problem after all.

>but I'd rather not exist than go to hell!!!
Sure, but your preferences don't make God evil.

>THE SOUL DIDN'T HAVE TO EXIST
God knows better than you.

>>14947025
it's literally the trolley problem but god being the fuck who started the trolley that would have been stationary if he hadn't, a trolley that didn't have to exist at all, since god is omnipotent and absolutely free in all his actualization.
THE SOUL DIDN'T HAVE TO EXIST THIS ISN'T A QUESTION OF SOUL'S FREE WILL BUT GOD'S FREEDOM AND OMNISCIENCVE IN EVERY CREATION

>>14884868
Do you have the ancap trolley problem where the invisible hand guides it onto the right track? I've been looking for it for a good while.

>>14874075
Crime and Punishment isn't a trolley problem autist

>>14873918

Trolley problem is dumb because it assumes I value the lives of random humans
You could put a bunch of crabs on that track and I'd care more

What would you call somebody who doesnt pull the lever in the trolley problem as to avoid any involvement and thus blame?

>stoicism
>existentialism
>utilitarianism
>the trolley problem

btw how would Kant solve the trolley problem?

>That video on his Youtube talking about trolley problem memes

Based.

>That video where he goes through trolley problem memes

Based.