/jp/ - Otaku Culture

File: 517 KB, 955x1440, rip fortune teller.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Fri Jul 3 03:37:44 2020 No.24553722 [Reply] [Original]

Man, I was not expecting this to make me hate Reimu so much. I know what she's doing, I know why she's "right", and her reasons for being right make her objectively evil. She's a traitor to humanity and her lifestyle is an insult to shrine maidens. She'll protect youkai who've killed humans yet kill humans who have tried to topple the youkai. I think it's pretty clear which side she's on.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 3 04:06:10 2020 No.24553886 Reimu is a villain protagonist working for the most evil of the youkai (Yukari). Gensokyo is a dystopia.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 3 04:14:06 2020 No.24553956 Oh hi Milo.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 3 04:14:40 2020 No.24553963 >>24553886 Is she really as much of a dumbass as she seems or is she just faking being oblovious to how fucked her relations with human and youkai are? Does ZUN understand what he's portraying here?

Anonymous Fri Jul 3 04:26:44 2020 No.24554085

Yukari:
Eats humans.
Captures humans for other youkai to eat.
Enslaves a poor innocent kitsune and installs computer software on it (Ran is not the kitsune! If you want to have sex with Ran you actually want to rape the kitsune).
Maintains the barrier, perpetuating the evil system.

She's basically the Kim Jong-un of Fantasy North Korea, and Reimu is her second-in-command.

Anonymous Fri Jul 3 04:34:35 2020 No.24554136
File: 19 KB, 200x200, 200px-Yin_and_Yang.svg.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>24553963
>Does ZUN understand what he's portraying here?
Yes, and it's a good thing. The way Gensokyo functions requires that the village humans be protected and in turn the youkai are able to live free of the skepticism of the outside world while still being sustained by the fear/belief of the human village. Maintaining the balance of that ecosystem is her job, which is why Reimu has been shown on numerous occasions to exterminate youkai that harm village humans directly. The fortune teller was a rare example of a human that threatened this balance in a different way, as his example could have led to the decline of the human village. Reimu thus dutifully exterminated him, and protected Gensokyo as is her role. Reimu protects the peaceful status quo. Her symbol is the taijitu, aka the 'yin and yang symbol'. Reimu is a radical centrist and will protect Gensokyo from all subversive elements that threaten it, whether they be youkai or human.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 3 04:37:07 2020 No.24554161 >>24554136 >while still being sustained by the fear/belief of the human village Wakasagihime's existence proves youkai do not have to be enemies of humans. There is no excuse.

Anonymous Fri Jul 3 04:38:49 2020 No.24554177

>>24554085
>Eats humans.
No mention in any canon source that she personally eats humans
>Captures humans for other youkai to eat.
Only people that won't be missed, like criminals and people that commit suicide
>Enslaves a poor innocent kitsune and installs computer software on it (Ran is not the kitsune! If you want to have sex with Ran you actually want to rape the kitsune).
This is entirely voluntary, there is no implication that the original kitsune has been coerced,
>Maintains the barrier, perpetuating the evil system.
It's not evil

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 3 04:40:27 2020 No.24554186 >>24554161 Not all youkai are the same, just as not all animals are herbivores.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 3 04:42:45 2020 No.24554204 File: 819 B, 80x20, 1590808720954.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] That's a lot of samefagging here.

Anonymous Fri Jul 3 04:46:21 2020 No.24554235

>>24554177
>No mention in any canon source that she personally eats humans
PCB phantasm, Marisa's scenario. Only reasonable interpretation is that she stores humans for food and has Ran prepare them for eating.
>Only people that won't be missed
Doesn't excuse it.
>there is no implication that the original kitsune has been coerced
She actively resists and has to be beaten to control her.
>It's not evil
It's oppressing humans as a perpetual underclass.

>>24554186
>Not all youkai are the same, just as not all animals are herbivores.
Kogasa's ability to survive without harming humans, contrary to her previous behavior, shows than youkai can change. If they eat humans it's because they enjoy it, not because of biological necessity.

Anonymous Fri Jul 3 04:47:42 2020 No.24554244

>>24554136
>Reimu protects the peaceful status quo
It's not peaceful for the majority living under it, both humans and youkai. It's built for the elite youkai cliques to slice up into their own spheres of influence, and Reimu does whatever her employer tells her to do. Reimu is the guard dog for the oppressive system the sages set up.

Anonymous Fri Jul 3 05:00:57 2020 No.24554354

>>24554136
I already understand how gensokyo functions. I think it's evil. There is a very clear balance of bias towards youkai, we know that gensokyo was created specifically for youkai who were getting too weak in the real world. It exists to serve youkai, and so does the human village. I think that's evil, I think the human villagers should be able to defend themselves from youkai. And if a bunch of human magicians running around makes the youkai diminish because humans no longer fear them? Fuck em. Fuck the youkai. And fuck Yukari.

Anonymous Fri Jul 3 05:03:21 2020 No.24554381

>>24554235
>>24554244
>PCB phantasm, Marisa's scenario. Only reasonable interpretation is that she stores humans for food and has Ran prepare them for eating.
I'll give you that, though it could be banter. If she requires it biologically then it's still not immoral
>Doesn't excuse it.
It does, and it shows that Yukari is actually surprisingly kind. The only extra step she could take would be to only use cadavers, but maybe that simply isn't possible
>She actively resists and has to be beaten to control her.
That was Ran 'resisting', not the original kitsune. Go re-read that article. Ran, the shikigami, forgets her place as a servant and Yukari beats her for it. The original kitsune has actually never once appeared in all of canon Touhou.
>It's oppressing humans as a perpetual underclass.
Humans and youkais are completely separate societies and thus it is nonsensical to say that humans are any sort of class in relation to Youkai.
>Kogasa's ability to survive without harming humans, contrary to her previous behavior, shows than youkai can change. If they eat humans it's because they enjoy it, not because of biological necessity.
Kogasa wasn't eating humans though, she was attempting to scare them. For youkai who's background explicitly involves consumption of human flesh, such a transition is likely impossible.
>It's not peaceful for the majority living under it
It seems plenty peaceful to me. No wars or famines or pandemics have been noted at all. Those incidents involving individual youkai on human attacks that do occur are dutifully investigated by the Hakurei shrine maiden.
>It's built for the elite youkai cliques to slice up into their own spheres of influence
Hierarchies are natural and unavoidable. Attempting to stop them from forming is literally impossible and counterproductive to everyone's interest.

Anonymous Fri Jul 3 05:07:49 2020 No.24554428

>>24554354
>I think it's evil.
I think it's beautiful.
>There is a very clear balance of bias towards youkai, we know that gensokyo was created specifically for youkai
If it was created for youkai then of course it should be biased towards youkai
>I think the human villagers should be able to defend themselves from youkai.
They can. Marisa was a human villager, and nothing has been shown to stop other human villagers from doing what Marisa does.

Anonymous Fri Jul 3 05:10:24 2020 No.24554459

>>24554381
>If she requires it biologically then it's still not immoral
If she requires it biologically then humans help her find an alternative, and if that turns out to be impossible, kill her as painlessly as possible. There is no excuse for murder.
>It does, and it shows that Yukari is actually surprisingly kind.
No. Even criminals have rights, and suicidal people often change their minds.
>it is nonsensical to say that humans are any sort of class in relation to Youkai
They must stay as peasants, and if they try to improve their society they are murdered like Fortune Teller.
>For youkai who's background explicitly involves consumption of human flesh, such a transition is likely impossible.
If that's true then they have to be eradicated like smallpox.
>Attempting to stop them from forming is literally impossible and counterproductive to everyone's interest.
The problem is not the hierarchy, it's that it's completely static. Humans will always be inferior to youkai because they are brutally murdered if they try to change things.

>>24554428
Marisa is a half-youkai's protege.

Anonymous Fri Jul 3 05:17:43 2020 No.24554523

>>24553722
I won't comment on a lot of the rest of the thread, because that's just going into toxic and kinda dumb stuff, but with regards to this:

The reason Reimu killed the Fortune Teller is because if the Fortune Teller was allowed to live, word could potentially spread that one could become a Youkai and be able to do whatever they wanted in Gensokyo. More conservative members of the Human Village wouldn't wish to become Youkai, of course; for instance, Akyuu wouldn't want it at all considering how much she hates them. However, a lot of the younger generation might. With that, as the younger generation gradually transition into all becoming youkai and the older generations die out, eventually there would be no humans left to sustain the belief in Youkai when it comes to their existence, as such snuffing out all the youkai, since belief is a major part of the existence of Youkai, and it can't be the belief of Youkai either; it has to be the belief of humans. And I'm not sure that the Shrine Maiden, maybe Sakuya, and the Lunarians and (if she counts) Sanae would be able to sustain a Gensokyo full of Youkai with their belief.

It makes logical sense if one wants Youkai to continue existing. It sucks majorly, but for Youkai to exist as they do, that's what Yukari and Reimu have to perpetuate - becoming a Youkai if you're a human from the village is a bad idea and will get you killed.

Anonymous Fri Jul 3 05:18:44 2020 No.24554534

>>24554428
>If it was created for youkai then of course it should be biased towards youkai
If it requires a caste of humans to be stuck there who solely exist for the purpose of being terrified of youkai, then it should not exist and if the youkai won't accept that then they should be systematically exterminated. Gensokyo cannot exist without human villagers as psuedo-slaves to what are essentially youkai gods. I find this a very interesting setting with many characters that I like, but I do not agree with the politics of it, at all. If I was raised there and discovered that I existed like that, when humans were free on the outside, I wouldn't just be a little pissed like the fortune teller who was clearly a more structured person. I would be enraged. The youkai are worthless parasite inhuman trash who cannot exist without human fear, they dont deserve an entire realm dedicated to maintaining their existence off of the fragile lifestyle of some humans who clearly wouldnt stay there if they knew. The youkai do not deserve a a nice little youkai ethnostate, they should be grateful if one or two of them exist as phantoms because some humans in the real world still remember them.
>>24554523
You can see how I feel about youkai.

Anonymous Fri Jul 3 05:24:20 2020 No.24554591

>>24554428
>>24554523
Oh and for the record I dont think the youkai are supposed to be a metaphor for any real world people, Im not an idiot. I just hate a story that says that humans should sacrifice their freedom and future to become essentially servants to another species, and that they will be killed if they dont stay in line. Youkai, aliens, demons, it doesnt matter. And something like youkai which cant even exist without humans, well, theyre not even deserving of a babys fear. I'm a little amazed at the world ZUN created and I wonder how and why he came up with it, and how it is possible for a human to think it a good system. For the record, I don't think Gensokyo is supposed to be a good world according to ZUN and I don't think Reimu is supposed to be a hero.

Anonymous Fri Jul 3 05:25:53 2020 No.24554604

>>24554534
Of course; a system as horrible as that is definitively horrible. I don't doubt that Yukari actually would take steps to ensure that those she took would be people literally no-one would miss and potentially even the cadavers of those people after they've already died or the like, however. With regards to Yukari's eating habits (as spoken about earlier in the thread) I would be willing to believe that Yukari just spreads the idea that she stores tons of humans for winter to look like some big bad youkai to humans though. The majority of Yukari's actions are actions to cause terror, and she's a known liar.

But even regardless of whether or not Yukari eats humans, there are definitely characters that are basically confirmed to eat humans within the canon of the series.

With regards to the Fortune Teller, if he decided to distance himself from the village and become a hermit before becoming a youkai (not a hermit in the spiritual sense but in the literal sense) he would most likely be ignored by Reimu, as he's not a member of the Human Village anymore; he's now a free agent. Free agents in Gensokyo are allowed freedom in every aspect of the word, so long as they are allowed to survive.

Anonymous Fri Jul 3 05:28:25 2020 No.24554621

>>24554459
>There is no excuse for murder.
You just contradicted yourself by suggesting that humans murder Yukari.
>No. Even criminals have rights, and suicidal people often change their minds.
Just to be clear, I don't think Yukari would be immoral even if she was abducting innocent people. Youkai are a different species, and prey on humans. Just as one doesn't think that humans are immoral for eating sentient creatures like pigs, I don't think youkai are sentient creatures like humans. So the fact that Yukari goes above and beyond by only abducting undesirables is evidence of her being a good person in my view. Sort of like a free range farm is more ethical than a factory farm.
>They must stay as peasants, and if they try to improve their society they are murdered like Fortune Teller.
Go re-read that chapter. In no way did Fortune Teller intent to improve the human village, he literally has a monologue of what he intends to do with his new form. And how are the humans peasants? They farm their own food, and produce their own goods. They don't pay tributes to the youkai, nor are they required to give a % of their produce to some local youkai lord. The only interaction they have with youkai outside of the metaphysical fear/belief aspect is trade, such as with Reisen or Nitori, and tourism, such as to the Moriya shrine.
>If that's true then they have to be eradicated like smallpox.
Genocide is a greater evil than sustainable predation.
>Humans will always be inferior to youkai because they are brutally murdered if they try to change things.
Literally no human has been brutally murdered for attempting to change things. Fortune teller was no longer human, and wasn't attempting to change anything. Your entire premise is false.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 3 05:31:49 2020 No.24554651 Oh look, it's this thread again.

Anonymous Fri Jul 3 05:34:48 2020 No.24554678

>>24554604
>With regards to the Fortune Teller, if he decided to distance himself from the village and become a hermit before becoming a youkai (not a hermit in the spiritual sense but in the literal sense) he would most likely be ignored by Reimu, as he's not a member of the Human Village anymore; he's now a free agent.
He didnt have a chance, reimu showed up at the moment of his rebirth through kosuzu, which was the only way available to him. In the chapter he asks Reimu if he can go and live quietly away from the humans without bothering anyone. If he hadn't been so honest with her and tried to talk with her, he would have survived then. That's fucked.

Anonymous Fri Jul 3 05:35:39 2020 No.24554682

>>24554621
>You just contradicted yourself by suggesting that humans murder Yukari.
I did not. She should be tried for her crimes, sentenced to life imprisonment, and because (assuming she needs to eat humans, which will not be allowed) that is the equivalent to a death sentence for her she should be offered euthanasia. If she attempts to escape then sufficient force should be used to stop her, which against a high power-level youkai means lethal force.
>Just as one doesn't think that humans are immoral for eating sentient creatures like pigs
Many people do, and even if you don't, pigs would obviously be justified in exterminating humans if they could.
>Genocide is a greater evil than sustainable predation.
The acceptable level of predation on humans is zero. If a species cannot live without murder then they are too evil to be allowed to exist.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 3 05:36:10 2020 No.24554684 >>24554678 No, you don't get what I'm saying. I'm saying if he tried to distance himself before he became a youkai, as in months or years before.

Anonymous Fri Jul 3 05:36:57 2020 No.24554691

>>24554459
>Marisa is a half-youkai's protege.
PC-98 was retconed, this is no longer the case. Marisa is a regular human that comes from a family living in the human village.
>>24554534
>Gensokyo cannot exist without human villagers as psuedo-slaves
They aren't slaves, pseudo or otherwise. Show me a single example of humans labor being used by youkai. The relationship between the human village and the various youkai societies is that of one between nations. There's a bit of trade, and a bit of one-sided spying, but that's to be expected and nothing like the dystopia you're describing.

Anonymous Fri Jul 3 05:37:49 2020 No.24554697

>>24554621
>Genocide is a greater evil than sustainable predation.
Genocide against beings whom human morality doesnt apply to, especially whom have deemed themselves above morality and allowed to kill innocent humans for food, isnt immoral. If you actually believe it isnt immoral for yukari to eat innocent humans, then you cant believe it is immoral for humans to survive by killing all youkai.

Anonymous Fri Jul 3 05:41:55 2020 No.24554727

>>24554691
>Show me a single example of humans labor being used by youkai
Well, for one, they arent allowed to know about or go to the normal human world because the youkai need a less advanced, ignorant population in order to survive. I would consider this similar in result to slavery, hence pseudo-slavery. You also cannot deny that they would never be allowed to collectively up and leave, or stop giving the youkai a food source of human fear. This particular detail makes it in my opinion very close to slavery.

Anonymous Fri Jul 3 05:43:18 2020 No.24554742

>>24554697
No, what you're proposing is a net greater evil. Let's break down the two situations:

Satus Quo: Only people hurt are undesirables like criminals and suicidals. Human villagers are perfectly safe and protected. Humans are still 7 billion in number and only growing.

Kill Youkai: Many endangered youkai species are genocided. Priceless ecological diversity is destroyed.

It's obvious that the first option is better.

ALSO: You keep directing this at the human village, yet the only people actually hurt by the status quo are the undesirables Yukari abducts. Only they have a legitimate reason to overthrow the youkai.

Anonymous Fri Jul 3 05:45:15 2020 No.24554753

>>24554742
>Priceless ecological diversity is destroyed.
That's a sacrifice I am willing to make. Believe you me, if I thought there was a species on earth which killed humans frequently as a food source, and earths biosphere could continue without it, without major damage, I would sign an order to eliminate it from existence without having so much as a fitful dream.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 3 05:47:29 2020 No.24554770 >>24554742 >Only people hurt are undesirables like criminals and suicidals. This is still evil. >>24554753 100% agreed. Nobody mourns smallpox.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 3 05:47:58 2020 No.24554776 >>24554770 >Nobody mourns smallpox. Is smallpox sentient?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 3 05:48:41 2020 No.24554785 >>24554776 >Is smallpox sentient? I wouldnt care if it was.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 3 05:48:44 2020 No.24554786 >>24554776 Doesn't matter. Something that harmful can't be allowed to exist.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 3 05:51:29 2020 No.24554806 >>24554753 I think we've reached an impasse for this discussion. We have a fundamental disagreement we have is the value of humans vs other highly intelligent beings like youkai.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 3 05:53:41 2020 No.24554822 >>24554786 You do realize that humans murder creatures that currently exist and are incredibly intelligent to the point that they're actually close to human intelligence (that is to say, pigs) for food, right?

Anonymous Fri Jul 3 05:54:11 2020 No.24554825

>>24554742
What do you think would happen if a large number of villagers found out about the outside world and decided they wanted to leave? This is a possibility hinted at a few times throughout the series, not just a baseless theory. What about humans who acquire magic? If the only way for humans to acquire power is through youkai, and they get killed for doing so, is that fair? Alice was considered a youkai for simply not needing to eat, I cant imagine all human magic is just power-attacks and flight like marisa. Do all humans have to use marisas kind of magic? What if her magic is borderline impossible to acquire? Basically when you give someone only one option and then kill them for taking it, that's not a free choice or a free world.

Anonymous Fri Jul 3 05:55:17 2020 No.24554834
File: 1.88 MB, 1344x1680, __cirno_daiyousei_clownpiece_lily_white_luna_child_and_3_more_touhou_drawn_by_cheunes__3d5eafd7db0341e6ade6507668da7b88.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>24554727
>Well, for one, they arent allowed to know about or go to the normal human world because the youkai need a less advanced, ignorant population in order to survive.
Just as an argument to appeal to the peanut gallery reading this thread, consider that anon's proposal would destroy not just man-eating youkai but all fantasy being in Gensokyo that require the barrier in order to exist, such as these cute and innocent little fairies.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 3 05:57:38 2020 No.24554859 >>24554806 >We have a fundamental disagreement we have is the value of humans vs other highly intelligent beings like youkai. Clearly

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 3 06:29:39 2020 No.24555226 >>24554822 Yes, and it would be perfectly moral for pigs to genocide humans because of that.

Anonymous Fri Jul 3 06:36:16 2020 No.24555308

>>24554822
Yes, and if humans needed to do that to survive then it would be moral for pigs to genocide them. But if humans eat pigs by choice, then the pigs should give them a fair trail and punish them with life imprisonment. Anybody who never ate pig would be free, and given rights to protect them from pigs who would harm them unjustly. The same could be done to harmless youkai like Wakasagihime, who could be given a lake in a nature preserve somewhere.

Anonymous Fri Jul 3 06:48:12 2020 No.24555421

>>24555308
If the humans don't uphold the barrier, however, Wakasagihime will poof out of existence as the poison of skepticism pollutes Gensokyo. And if fear is necessary for some youkai to live, even if they don't require human flesh, then likewise they would die out if humans no longer fear youkai.

Ultimately though, I agree with the general point that you're getting at. Morality is great to argue about and all, but at the end of the day might makes right. No law or ideology or words on a piece of paper matter one iota unless they are backed by real power. Humans aren't wrong to rebel, and youkai aren't wrong to protect their existence by stamping out said rebellion.

Anonymous Fri Jul 3 06:50:36 2020 No.24555438

>>24555421
>If the humans don't uphold the barrier, however, Wakasagihime will poof out of existence
This can't be true because she is canonically not an enemy of humans. Anything that requires the barrier to exist is an enemy of humans.
>if fear is necessary for some youkai to live
Kogasa would be happier working at a Haunted House attraction in the Outside World.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 3 06:56:48 2020 No.24555509 >>24555438 >Anything that requires the barrier to exist is an enemy of humans. And this is... canonical?

Anonymous Fri Jul 3 06:56:51 2020 No.24555510

>>24555438
>This can't be true because she is canonically not an enemy of humans.
Neither are fairies, but any fantasy creature requires isolation from the rationalism and the skepticism of the outside world in order to survive. Since the outside does not believe in the real existence of mermaids or fairies, they cannot survive without both the protection of the barrier and the existence of humans that believe in their existence.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 3 07:00:07 2020 No.24555554 >>24555509 It's simple logic. The barrier is an instrument of oppression. >>24555510 Fairies are enemies of humans. Harming humans and calling it a "prank" is not an excuse.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 3 07:02:48 2020 No.24555582 >>24553722 congrats anon, welcome to the truth of the matter where you realize gensokyo is grimdark as all hell.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 3 07:05:59 2020 No.24555615 File: 41 KB, 396x382, 1433924921748.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 3 07:14:50 2020 No.24555747 Why do autists get so worked up over what happens to imaginary people?

Anonymous Fri Jul 3 08:02:53 2020 No.24556388

>>24554381
>Humans and youkais are completely separate societies
No they are not. The humans are forcibly living under youkai occupation and the youkai cliques fight for control of the human village. Even the privileged humans outside the village fight for influence via religion in the same ways.
>It seems plenty peaceful to me.
Because you like to pretend you're like Reimu or an elite youkai/lunarian/celestial/etc and not random villager #204 or gapped human #??? who's about to be eaten.
>Hierarchies are natural and unavoidable
Spoken like an elite youkai bootlicker. The only hierarchy needed is one where the humans, fairies and oppressed youkai exterminate the elite. Once that is done there is no more hierarchy.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 3 09:04:34 2020 No.24557374 It's been five years already, you'd think people would be over this by now. >>24555747 Just saying, that doesn't sound convincing considering where we are. You'd make a better point if you were talking about the dead teller.

Anonymous Fri Jul 3 09:22:44 2020 No.24557748

>50 replies and barely 10 posters total
go back to /vg/ or reddit you stipid faggot. you are legitimately mentally ill and do nothing but shit up the board because touhou isnt what you want it to be

this shit happened 5 years ago and retards are still crying about a one off character

Anonymous Fri Jul 3 15:34:33 2020 No.24563680

>>24555615
>>24557748
I've noticed this before, if someone starts discussing characters motivations, or morality, or pretty much anything that isn't tea-sokyo, it's borderline against the rules. I like the girls, I like the games, but it's because of that, that I want to actually discuss it and the things about it that make it interesting. If I didn't know better I'd say that there's a massive group of people on /jp/ who just hate the concept of a more grim gensokyo in general and don't want any discussion of it to be part of the board. PC-98 games, canon deaths in windows games, Yukari or Yuuka eating people, anything along those lines.

Anonymous Fri Jul 3 18:55:49 2020 No.24566128

>>24563680
>people on /jp/ who just hate the concept of a more grim gensokyo
There are certainly dark aspects of canon Touhou, but most of the time I see grimsokyo posters devolving into blatant misinformation and 'humans fuck yeah' 40K shit. Or rather, it's the same poster that's been arguing this in every other one of these threads so naturally people get annoyed by it.

Anonymous Fri Jul 3 19:10:11 2020 No.24566287

>>24563680
>I've noticed this before, if someone starts discussing characters motivations, or morality
It always ends up with the same retards proclaiming that Gensokyo is Nazi Germany, youkai should be genocided, and that this is actually a canonical position.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 3 19:14:53 2020 No.24566333 >>24563680 A few of them are /v/ermin secondaries that try too hard to fit in and still think Flan is a cute loli kept in the basement by her sister.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 3 19:21:23 2020 No.24566396 >>24566333 Flan is literally a cute loli kept in the basement by her sister.

Anonymous Fri Jul 3 19:21:36 2020 No.24566399

>>24566128
>most of the time I see grimsokyo posters devolving into blatant misinformation
I see the same thing with people who think gensokyo is all sunshine and rainbows. Like handwaving anything in the windows games that contradicts it by claiming it's all loosely canon.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 3 21:11:15 2020 No.24567512 >>24566396 Flan is a hikkiNEET

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 4 00:32:59 2020 No.24569555 >>24554834 In fairness, I'd destroy those fairies too. Just, in a different way.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 4 00:59:53 2020 No.24569822 Gensokyo is paradise. The end.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 4 02:02:26 2020 No.24570333 File: 1.81 MB, 2656x2988, 1470636770508.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] With love, ZUN.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 4 02:07:20 2020 No.24570389 >>24569822 Gensokyo is a land full of monsters who are routinely beat down or killed by a shrine maiden if they get uppity and you can't convince me otherwise.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 4 02:49:13 2020 No.24570820 File: 114 KB, 294x384, 3739588393.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>24555747

Anonymous Sat Jul 4 03:47:53 2020 No.24571385
File: 1.07 MB, 1229x1738, 1584208332041.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

imagine if there was no outside world, and gensokyo existed on its own - a world of youkai and humans, not unlike the world before gensokyo was formed
in this world the humans naturally have the upper hand. why? because youkai need humans to live, they need the belief and fear. and so this means the relationship is entirely one-sided: youkai need humans, but humans do not need youkai
humans have the advantage because the population of humans in our disconnected gensokyo is not replenishable outside of human means, and so once the humans realize this they can coerce youkai to human interests by means of one-direction mutually assured destruction. the humans can threaten to kill themselves or reduce their population by less births and put the youkai population at risk. the youkai cannot massively harm the humans without harming themselves. and so the humans will always dominate in this situation

so why does gensokyo not have that occur? because the youkai control the means of entry and have a different manner of replenishing the human population: pulling people from the outside world. so the human population of gensokyo is largely replaceable and the position of power humans normally have is uprooted
so this is why any outsider should make it his goal to slay the keepers of gensokyo's borders and bring the world back to the natural state of affairs. not just for the liberation of the humans inside, but the risk gensokyo poses to the outside world - at any point, someone outside is at risk of being spirited away into the world of human subservience and the rule of monsters. this is entirely unacceptable. the sages of gensokyo and the youkai shrine maiden are all enemies of humanity

Anonymous Sat Jul 4 03:52:02 2020 No.24571440

>>24566396
Flan stays in the basement by choice. How can you lock up something that is capable of destroying literally anything, including the locks you put on her?
Satori's new manga even revealed this to be true: Flan just breaks the locks on the door when she decides she wants to leave.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 4 03:52:35 2020 No.24571447 >>24571385 Morning in Europe, Reimuhater wakes up.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 4 03:54:08 2020 No.24571465 File: 57 KB, 800x800, 1569791565978.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>24571447 i'm in US actually, and posting before going to bed. holiday weekend means i'm staying up late

Anonymous Sat Jul 4 03:56:27 2020 No.24571492

>>24571385
I wager there are youkai I'd rather be around than the main human characters. Interpreted as liberally dark as canonically possible, Gensokyo is super-jail for retired youkai and gods who have a subservient human population, where the rulers will kill anyone, human or youkai, who attempts to change the balance. Reimu has killed many a youkai who did not do even half the stuff her friends do, and we know she isnt averse to killing humans, she stated it herself. Now this is the most edgy interpretation possible, if you also believe the implocations that youkai prey on wandering humans from the village or the outside. That's a horrible world. The games to me always seemed like a sort of creepy doll like facade for a hellscape where the only absolute constant was the undiscriminating destructive power of Reimu Hakurei.

That's why I love Reimu, because she's essentially a lazy, amoral demon lord of her own personalized hell.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 4 04:01:58 2020 No.24571559 >>24571492 Youkai aren't allowed to prey on the Human Villagers; they're fine and mostly safe. Usually the Youkai eat humans from the Outside, or need to feed on fear instead of actual flesh.

Anonymous Sat Jul 4 04:12:42 2020 No.24571662

>>24571492
the problem mostly being had in all this discussion is whether or not it is the moral stance to place humans or youkai on equal footing or whether or not it is okay to sacrifice one for the sake of the other
but i don't subscribe to those kinds of morals. i look out to my own interests and as a human i find it unacceptable for there to be a situation like that for me or my kind. someone up above mentioned eliminating smallpox as moral: i am not only fine with killing other sentient beings for my own security and prosperity, i am even fine with killing other humans to that same end. there is no question that i'd want to do the same to the youkai of gensokyo, who aren't even my own kind, and defenders would have to make a better case for why their existence is to my benefit without resorting to some argument of the immorality of killing. in the setting, even outsiders should find the existence of gensokyo a menace since one could be spirited away at any moment

i don't think that's edgy grimdark reasoning that people try to blow this reasoning off as - the canon confirms gensokyo exists for the benefit of youkai and individual humans live in fear (see: symposium of post-mysticism) and the conclusion of "kill the youkai" is one of personal conviction
the humans inside do not really have the power or choice once placed there to oppose (anyone that did would simply be killed and replaced with another until people get the picture and remain docile), which makes it seem like there's a peace, but it's a peace in the same way a prison is peaceful. it's rather horrifying to suggest that someone in the modern age might be plucked out and placed into a pre-industrial society and under fear of life and limb (or simply just for fear itself) like prey

the only amelioration to make gensokyo less "grimdark" is that, iirc, one of the works says many of the outsiders deliberately choose or seek gensokyo or escape, so if it's people voluntarily entering then that's their choice and it becomes less horrible and more just me disagreeing with the people that enter

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 4 04:16:33 2020 No.24571698 >>24570389 "Paradise" and what you describe are unmutually-exclusive.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 4 04:18:12 2020 No.24571717 >>24571698 You're right, and after all I've said I would still rather live in gensokyo than here.

Anonymous Sat Jul 4 09:08:55 2020 No.24575715

>>24563680
or maybe we've already seen this thread a hundred times. its always full of very obvious samefagging to try and get it off the ground and then circular arguing when someone takes the bait. when /jp/ is a slow board its very obvious when its the same person trudging through the same circular arguments they always make trying to enforce their own morality on someone elses fictional universe and getting autistically mad when most people don't agree that things are black and white good and evil according to someone elses subjective ideas.

framing people telling a notorious /vg/ shitposter to fuck off as "theres some secret group keeping us down!" is fucking retarded. it was summed up well here >>24566128 >>24566287 . This board has discussed it to death and there is a huge contingent of Zounoose fans too. people are just sick of this guy.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 4 13:11:19 2020 No.24579598 File: 79 KB, 509x361, 1566256696582.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>24553722 >what is a precedence Lmao cry harder youkai incel

Anonymous Sat Jul 4 13:34:29 2020 No.24579946

>>24553722
Reminder that this is the second time in FS that a main character murders a youkai in order to preserve balance. The first time was Marisa, but while obviously sapient the youkai wasn't humanoid so no one cared.

>>24571385
But what if the sages are trying to alter the nature of youkai so that they can live like humans? In which case Gensokyo isn't so much a ranch, but a drug treatment center.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 4 13:42:37 2020 No.24580045 >>24579946 >The first time was Marisa, but while obviously sapient the youkai wasn't humanoid so no one cared. And the second time the youkai wasn't female, so still no one really cared.

Anonymous Sat Jul 4 14:53:17 2020 No.24581079

>>24575715
I don't care if the miko guy has done this before. This is my thread, because I finally sat down and made myself read FS. I don't care if there's a frequent extremist shitposter. Those kinds of things don't bother me, I don't care if there's some boogeyman who posts in these threads even if he is real, which I can tell he really is based on a lot of the responses. I honestly hate the shitty /vg/ mentality of "you can't reply to someone with the same opinion as a shitposter boogeyman" way more than I hate an actual, material, living shitposter boogeyman. I would ignorantly bait a shitposter a thousand times and I wouldn't care if it was because discussing something I was interested in. I want to discuss this, and I don't care what kind of posters I attract by doing it.

Anonymous Sat Jul 4 19:22:08 2020 No.24584575

>>24571440
So why is the lock on the basement door there in the first place? Because she's being kept in the basement, even if it's not beyond her power to leave if she really wants to. I mean she left the basement in fucking EoSD. A horse which CAN leap a gate to leave a pasture is still being kept in the pasture if it stays there 99% of the time.

"Flan is a cute loli kept in the basement by her sister" is absolutely correct to even a second approximation and anyone claiming only "/v/ermin secondaries" believe it is probably a vermin secondary themselves.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 4 22:39:14 2020 No.24587095 >>24584575 Anything believed by touhou oldfags is now secondary. If you've even heard U.N. Owen was her, you're a secondary.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 4 23:32:38 2020 No.24587568 File: 3.65 MB, 294x524, Chaika.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>24587095 thats bullshit but i believe it

Anonymous Sat Jul 4 23:43:45 2020 No.24587671

>>24584575
the problem is that it misleads what the situation is. the horse that can escape chooses not to when gated, but the horse isn't sapient like flandre, who could at any point leave by choice (as we've now seen in canon)
yes, she is being kept there by her sister, but the situation is more of a bipartisan agreement and not total rule by remilia. remilia would like flandre to stay in the basement. flandre does not seem to care that she is being kept in the basement and will leave if she really wants to

so it's not wrong to say "flandre is a cute loli kept in the basement by her sister." it is also not wrong to say "flandre is a hikiNEET that stays in the basement of her own accord." they aren't mutually exclusive ideas. but the image of remilia placing flandre in some impenetrable cage or dungeon is rather silly as we've seen, because it would be a pointless effort. flandre stays there because she wants to, and knowing remilia the locks are probably just for chuuni show
there's a case to be made that it is not physical but a more social lock placed on flandre, in that flandre would not want to upset her sister and that's why she stays there, but that still implies voluntary choice on flandre's part

Anonymous Sun Jul 5 01:30:27 2020 No.24588591

>>24584575
>So why is the lock on the basement door there in the first place?
If you have a lock on your room door, does that mean you are being kept in there? The lock was more to keep others calm, like outsiders, the fairies and Sakuya. It meant nothing to Flan herself.

Flan is a hikkiNEET, the only reason she doesn't leave the basement is because she's completely taken care of and can take it easy down there. She only leaves if there's a threat large enough that her sister can't stop, so she temporarily stops being a NEET and becomes a janitor to "clean" up the "mess" in the mansion, be it a shrine maiden, a meteorite or a vengeful spirit. Considering she figured out much of the mystery faster than everyone else alone, she'd make a better mistress than her sister if she wasn't so lazy otherwise. In fact she doesn't seem to think highly of her sister when she's not present, which supports this.

If you want to believe fanon representations of Flan because you watched TMoP in 2013 over her actual canon depiction, you're free to. But you're still a secondary.

Anonymous Sun Jul 5 03:55:45 2020 No.24589736

>>24588591
Just because someone has a different interpretation of gensokyo doesn't make them a secondary, as long as they played the games. Gensokyo isn't even consistent within post-EoSD canon works, let alone the numerous ways that the vague inconsistencies can be interpreted.

Anonymous Sun Jul 5 22:10:22 2020 No.24606456
File: 463 KB, 256x192, 1593589727782.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>24563680
Because /jp/ is basically a shitposting and imagespam board now like /bant/, only that it's not just Cirno that's being posted.
For some reason it's blasphemous that things that were argued before to be argued again, even though that's how almost everything works, even in the real world. Certain parts of fiction will be discussed over and over again, and that's just testament to how interesting and possibly nuanced it is. Gensokyo is supposed to be a very morally questionable place, where you can't worry about common sense. The fact that people constantly argue about the morality beneath it all is just natural.
I don't get how some people love Touhou and hate every gacha and yet somehow hates threads like these. This is one of the main differences between every soulless gacha and Touhou.

Anonymous Sun Jul 5 22:22:16 2020 No.24606614

>>24606456
exactly, i find debating the nuance of the canon and setting a lot more interesting than yet another template thread of "this is my wife, say something nice about her"
i don't care that people disagree and have counterpoints because that's what makes the discussion interesting. it's disappointing to instead see discussion dismissed entirely for stupid reasons like "some anon i don't like discusses this" or "i don't want discussions like these around"

Anonymous Sun Jul 5 23:54:18 2020 No.24607787

>>24589736
If you primarily get your lore information from fanon and community memes, you're just a secondary that happens to play the games.

The vagueness in the lore is where we find the discussions and interpretations we like to engage in, but in cases like this where it's pretty clear that Flan is not the "cute loli trapped in the basement that wants friends and freedom but is unable to control her powers so she's locked away by her sister" depiction that has been popularised for decades now, you have to accept canon for what it is.

Maybe ZUN will retcon that out like he did mystical Reimu or Yuuka's entire existence, but for now that's what we got. Just like what we got on Gensokyo is that if you're not part of the main cast, existence varies from mediocre to downright terrible, and not even all of the cast is immune to this themselves.

Anonymous Mon Jul 6 00:45:25 2020 No.24608315

>>24607787
>If you primarily get your lore information from fanon and community memes, you're just a secondary that happens to play the games.
That would make the majority of touhou "fans" secondary. Not that I disagree. Now we can go into semantics, but I think the main games are the only canon that matters and anything else is irrelevant. With that said, you can play through EoSD and come to the conclusion that she was locked in there and wanted friends based on the dialouge in Reimhs route. And despite what a massive chunk of the fanbase says, I don't think secondary material is more important than the in-game dialouge when determining canon events. If something is contradicted, it would only count if it was by an appearance in another game.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 6 01:10:31 2020 No.24608534 >>24553722 We must capture her and run an armpit tongue rape train on her so she learns a lesson!

Anonymous Mon Jul 6 21:19:26 2020 No.24624718
File: 177 KB, 1000x1439, WaHH.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>24608315
>but I think the main games are the only canon that matters and anything else is irrelevant.
i hope you also mean to include official print works, because otherwise you're essentially just writing off all the sources of anything more in-depth than what is mostly just banter

Anonymous Mon Jul 6 21:36:25 2020 No.24624900

>>24624718
>otherwise you're essentially just writing off all the sources of anything more in-depth than what is mostly just banter
Correct
I was gonna write a longer post explaining it more but to be honest, yeah. I think shelving all the in-game dialogue as meaningless banter is pretty fucking retarded considering that they're the main source, and don't for a second believe that they were meant to be that, especially regarding games 6-9. There's some key stuff in there that makes me think ZUN changed his mind about the setting after PoFV.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 6 22:11:43 2020 No.24625287 >>24624900 Such as?

Anonymous Mon Jul 6 23:24:00 2020 No.24626131
File: 695 KB, 640x480, 1585392760511.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>24624900
>I think shelving all the in-game dialogue as meaningless banter is pretty fucking retarded
i think the same for official print sources, if you can dismiss canon based on a whim like that i certainly can too
the games have lines like pic related so i can be just as justified in it too

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 6 23:51:20 2020 No.24626440 >>24624900 Even in 6, some of what characters say is banter; Remilia says Sakuya is dead after Reimu or whoever fought her, but then in the endings Sakuya is still alive. So logically, there's at least some part of the early games that are banter.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 6 23:55:42 2020 No.24626492 >>24624900 Alice doesn't actually want to kill Reimu. Sorry you had to find out this way

Anonymous Tue Jul 7 00:10:49 2020 No.24626679

>>24626131
>>24626440
If something in the written works doesn't clash with the games I obviously have no problem with it, but to me the games are really the only vitally important canon. I only pass something off as "banter" if it's, well, actual banter, or if it is contradicted within the games themselves. I'm aware that most people don't share this opinion at this point in the series development. Regardless I don't think Eikis words to Reimu were just "banter", I don't think that it was vague at all what she meant, and you cannot convince me that it meant something otherwise at the time it was written. Having played those kinds of games at that time and knowing the style, it's pretty clear cut to me what they meant and I think if the games seem vague to someone, they're being willingly obtuse, or they just have a much more modern and skewed viewpoint of the of the games.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 04:09:38 2020 No.24629052 >>24626679 'Exterminating' isn't the same as killing; after all, so many Youkai are exterminated and you're able to face them afterwards, and even the mostly-humans are able to be exterminated and come back.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 04:39:01 2020 No.24629318 >>24629052 nah

Anonymous Tue Jul 7 04:49:02 2020 No.24629402

>>24588591
>If you have a lock on your room door, does that mean you are being kept in there?
Yes, if it's kept locked.

>If you want to believe fanon representations
It's an accurate representation. What's really happening is you're being a miserable elitist calling people secondaries for accurately describing canon in a way you don't like.

Anonymous Tue Jul 7 04:57:04 2020 No.24629457

>>24629052
Most of them never show up again. And I dont think Eiki would have been so serious about Reimus place in hell if extermination just meant a slap on the wrist. No it's not just more ebin banter, it's an important insight into Gensokyo as it was envisioned then and Reimu as a character, which has ironically come full circle in Forbidden Scrollery. I do not believe I was mistaken then, and I don't believe it's a coincidence for such themes to be in the manga and games now. I think the interpretation that killing was never intended to be happening in the windows games is, frankly, pure fanon. I got into it because of the games, I like the story as presented in the games and the CDs, and the manga. It seems consistent to me. What doesn't seem consistent is the idea that it's all just play and larping. Just doesn't fit with everything else, especially when you take into context the other doujin games and shmups of the time. That kind of "banter" was pretty common in gap-moe sorts of games, and those characters were very much seriously killing each other. The idea that its all sunshine and rainbows is an outlier to the rest of what has actually been seen in canon. So I don't pay much attention to it.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 05:02:57 2020 No.24629501 >>24629457 >Most of them never show up again. So who of the cast is dead at this point, then? Enlighten us.

Anonymous Tue Jul 7 05:08:44 2020 No.24629563

>>24629457
If by 'never show up again' you mean in the games, then even that's wrong; Shoot The Bullet has every Touhou character in the games that have appeared up to then appear again. Almost every character up to that point shows up in Hopeless Masquerade as well. So even in the games (and let's not forget Double Spoiler) none of them have died.

Anonymous Tue Jul 7 05:11:12 2020 No.24629578

>>24629501
I dunno, I only know the ones that definately didnt and those are any recurring characters in the main games. Which is actually a pretty small number, about a dozen off the top of my head. I dont know about newer games but I say with confidence that the older windows games were certainly intended to be more deadly than fan interpretation.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 05:11:36 2020 No.24629584 >>24626679 "To me, 2*2=5. I'm aware that most people don't share this opinion" Well, very self-aware of you, but doesn't change the fact that you are, you know, completely wrong.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 05:12:54 2020 No.24629599 >>24629584 Nah

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 05:15:00 2020 No.24629618 >>24629578 Oh so you're not only ignoring the written works but the side games as well? Because AFAIK Double Spoiler and Shoot The Bullet were made entirely by ZUN and featured literally every character that existed up to those points in canon

Anonymous Tue Jul 7 05:21:02 2020 No.24629672

>>24629563
>>24629618
Those are pretty clearly fanservicey, loosely canon games. Is, say, yumizuka still alive because she appeared in melty blood?
>>24629584
I'm completely right. They were absolutely originally intended to be trying to get rid of each other. The intent has probably changed, somewhat, but I sincerely doubt it was all just for banter in the older games. I wholeheartedly believe this, and I think you're the deluded one.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 05:23:55 2020 No.24629702 File: 7 KB, 816x159, Screenshot_2020-07-07 ZUN's reply to messages on the former Gensou Bulletin Board 1.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>24629672 >They were absolutely originally intended to be trying to get rid of each other

Anonymous Tue Jul 7 05:30:34 2020 No.24629755

>>24629672
Shoot The Bullet was made by ZUN. It is not loosely canon. It is 100% canon in the same way main games are.
In addition, all of the Touhou side material, and especially Perfect Memento in Strict Sense, is written by ZUN.
Now, stop crying because 'waaah I can't have my cute girls be murderers I want a darker setting waaah'
God damn, even Mystia comes back in POFV after being hypothetically eaten by Yuyuko in IN
No-one disagrees that sometimes Youkai are killed instead of merely beaten up; we just think your bullshit is wrong and dumb

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 05:31:29 2020 No.24629763 >>24629755 >all of the Touhou side material, and especially Perfect Memento in Strict Sense, is written by ZUN. Yeah, I know. Ive read it.

Anonymous Tue Jul 7 05:36:06 2020 No.24629784

>>24629763
...then you'd know Youkais aren't dead
To be fair, I could see Eiki's lecture to Reimu as a criticism of what she did back in the PC98 days, where spell cards didn't exist, if you really think exterminating means murder
But honestly, it most likely means Eiki thinks Reimu is a bullying asshole (which isn't even wrong)

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 05:39:18 2020 No.24629815 >>24629784 I think spellcard rules arent followed too often or tok closely in the games. That was my interpretation when I first read it.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 06:15:15 2020 No.24630092 >>24629784 "Exterminated" absolutely doesn't mean murder. Reimu even says she exterminated Tokiko, who barges in like a second later, beaten up and complaining.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 06:34:23 2020 No.24630267 >>24630092 Exactly; so Eiki is just saying Reimu's a bully (which is correct)

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 08:49:09 2020 No.24631759 >>24629402 >It's an accurate representation. Canon material proves otherwise.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 12:56:23 2020 No.24635350 >>24629702 The fuck is a "remaining craft"? Are they in the Kisekiverse now?

Anonymous Tue Jul 7 13:20:59 2020 No.24635669

I don't know how many times people need to be told but "extermination" has never meant killing in Windows Touhou. Its 2020 and people still dont understand this. And then you wonder why people don't like these threads.

EoSD is the first incident to play out under spellcard rules and this is stated in multiple print works and supplementary canon sources. All Windows Touhou games play out under these rules. Sakuya doesn't die ( >>24629702 ), Alice's quote about taking Reimu's life was not serious, and the low level youkai mooks like Rumia and Wriggle tend to show up in the manga and print works.

>>24629457
>>24629672
This is pure delusion, being willingly obtuse and sticking to a bizarre interpretation of the games that is directly contradicted by numerous canon sources. You can't just ignore the side games and print works and angrily declare your interpretation of canon as the only valid one, calling everyone else delusional and wrong. You're the one sticking to whatever your first impression of the series was without reassessing your position and actually trying to fucking think about the things ZUN has written in the last 10 years. Regardless of that, Danmaku was ALWAYS nonlethal and every incident ends with a dinner party.

Anonymous Tue Jul 7 13:33:10 2020 No.24635833

>>24635669
All I'm saying is that if you took some random person and sat them down to play touhou, they wouldn't even question whether or not the characters were really trying to kill each other. Everything in the games design from health bars to lives to bullets and projectiles designed to look like weapons point in that direction. It's just bizarre that you would need to read supplementary material to learn counter-intuitive things to interpret what was actually happening in the games "correctly". Maybe the japanese are on a completely different dimensional plane of sarcasm because if that's supposed to be obvious from the games themselves, it wasn't obvious at all to me. And I don't think it would be for most people.

Anonymous Tue Jul 7 13:37:57 2020 No.24635884
File: 187 KB, 1000x1450, 1583877421145.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>24635669
the question of the thread originally wasn't that "youkai are being exterminated and i think that means killed" but "reimu actually killed this human that became a youkai, and not merely exterminated," leading into a discussion of how gensokyo is not a human-friendly environment and the views on that. the discussion has spiraled into some weird rejection of that interpretation as "grimsokyo" and has had people chiming in with outright bizarre ideas about what makes things canonical or not

danmaku is not lethal, that's canon. but the concept of "gensokyo is a world for the benefit of youkai and not humans" is certainly canon as well (see: the religious debate during symposium of post-mysticism, and pic of >>24624718 + pic related), and that's where some people are trying to dismiss any darker conception of gensokyo by saying the print works don't count

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 13:45:27 2020 No.24635963 >>24631759 >Canon material proves otherwise. No, it doesn't, you rancid secondary shit-for-brain. You've done literally nothing but make a retarded semantic argument and claim it's canon, the same as half the other shitheads in threads like these.

Anonymous Tue Jul 7 13:46:04 2020 No.24635972

>>24635833
>Everything in the games design from health bars to lives to bullets and projectiles designed to look like weapons point in that direction.
there are plenty of games with health bars and people straight up swinging edged swords at one another that are treated as "non-lethal" so i do not see your point that necessarily this means the danmaku fights are murder. the series makes this very clear many times that danmaku is not deadly and to act like you have a more pure form of canon for rejecting that is absurd
you can think what you like about the fiction, but you are conceiving your own internal idea of what the setting is like when you do not accept all the official sources of the setting, and it does not agree with most others views on what the setting is as a result

Anonymous Tue Jul 7 13:47:00 2020 No.24635988

>>24635833
>All I'm saying is that if you took some random person and sat them down to play touhou, they wouldn't even question whether or not the characters were really trying to kill each other.
Have you EVER played a fucking Touhou game? Did you know that when characters "explode" in Touhou they get to deliver a line about how they've been defeated AFTER they explode? Did you know that some of these characters who explode come back later in the extra stage?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 13:49:13 2020 No.24636024 >>24635972 >>24635988 I know this because that's something I've actually done before, had someone I know play touhou games without any prior knowledge.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 13:50:02 2020 No.24636031 >>24636024 Get some less retarded friends.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 13:50:31 2020 No.24636039 >>24636024 i too can get an idiot to play touhou and hear his idiotic opinions about it but that doesn't make them any less idiotic

Anonymous Tue Jul 7 13:56:12 2020 No.24636102

>>24636031
>>24636039
No one who plays a game like that is going to have anything BUT that impression unless they were already familiar with the series. It's just the truth. The games present themselves in a very different manner than what is supposed to canonically true, and the fact that they're like that because it's all a larp doesn't change that impression at all. Go find me someone who WILL realize the canon interpretation on first playing the games.

Anonymous Tue Jul 7 13:58:43 2020 No.24636136

>>24636102
i played touhou for the first time and when i defeated someone and they spoke after being defeated, i could easily figure out "oh, they're not dead." i do not know how you could be so obtuse to insist otherwise when the series makes it clear over and over again, with the creator straight up saying the fights are not deadly

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 14:02:37 2020 No.24636180 >>24636136 I just figured it was their last words or something.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 14:12:49 2020 No.24636274 File: 170 KB, 1000x1436, 1564094177422.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>24629402 >>24631759 >>24635963 >No, it doesn't yes, it does, pic related

Anonymous Tue Jul 7 14:21:03 2020 No.24636341

Hey, remeber how there's now an exact identical system to what Nyarlathotep was pulling in persona II, Innocent sin in gensokyo? And that, sequel after sequel, much of the main cast is getting less and less human, or thew literal H.P lovecraft background shit that's been foreshadowed as early as IN? Miss yakumo makes reference to understanding higher math- a theme in lovecraft's works- next to the necromonicon's prescene, the black parade's foreshadowing, a reference to a rite to yog-sothoth, and the whole true demon's thing being an asian theme of yeeting in something lovecraftian under the label of demon

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 14:22:21 2020 No.24636355 >>24636341 Yeah we already know Yukari is Azathoth.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 14:22:47 2020 No.24636361 >>24555554 That's a value projection

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 14:23:31 2020 No.24636373 >>24636361 What else are you going to do with values? Sit on them?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 14:25:21 2020 No.24636384 >>24553722 How dare a fictional character have questionable morals.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 14:26:15 2020 No.24636396 >>24636384 how dare someone discuss that

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 14:29:22 2020 No.24636440 I'll discuss it as much as I want. Please respect my neurodiversity.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 14:32:52 2020 No.24636480 >>24636384 Keyword questionable. What's the point if you don't question it?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 14:59:22 2020 No.24636815 >>24636274 Yes, she was canonically locked up. You can see there is a lock on the door. Which was locked. If someone locks me in a room, the fact that I am capable of kicking out the lock doesn't stop me from being locked in the room.

Anonymous Tue Jul 7 15:09:07 2020 No.24636939

>>24636815
>I wouldn't say I was "locked up".

>she was canonically locked up
being locked in a room implies being unable to leave. you might as well say "i have the key to the lock on my door but i'm locked up because a lock exists." it's an absurd notion that does not reflect the actual situation

Anonymous Tue Jul 7 15:34:15 2020 No.24637342
File: 2.84 MB, 419x313, me_right_now.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>24554591
>I just hate a story that says that humans should sacrifice their freedom and future to become essentially servants to another species, and that they will be killed if they dont stay in line.
And yet you do nothing about it.

Anonymous Tue Jul 7 15:46:20 2020 No.24637510
File: 720 KB, 1200x1697, 1567682668845.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>24637342
that's really the counter to "grimsokyo" - it isn't to act like gensokyo isn't the bad situation that is canonically is shown to be, it's to show that the outside world situation isn't much better in many ways
for most people, even in the first world, you are under the thumb of whatever laws you live under, you get taxed on your wages and property, you have all sorts of systemic risks like car accidents, crime, health issues, etc.
having an added risk of "youkai might eat you" and "youkai tax your happiness by preying on your fear" isn't too far removed from a normal situation for people. *that* is what makes gensokyo less "grimdark" - it's not that it's false to say the world exists for youkai, it's to act like that fate is intolerable to humans when humans are willing to live under each other normally anyway

there's still some questions of moral acceptability, but that starts differing a lot

Anonymous Tue Jul 7 16:24:31 2020 No.24638066

>>24556388
>Once that is done there is no more hierarchy.
That's not how it has ever worked in any society. Destroying the elite class is temporary at best because you will always need someone to lead people who want to be led and any superior/subordinate relationship inevitably leads to an unfair accumulation of benefits/resources/wealth that quickly leads to a re-establishment of hierarchies.

Lack of hierarchy is essentially only possible for non-sentient or solitary sentient creatures. Because either everyone's too brainless to form a hierarchy or there's no hierarchy to form when you're alone.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 16:40:28 2020 No.24638286 >>24635833 Sakuya explodes, then comes back and says she needs to make you waste a bomb before Remilia, then explodes again. They say Sakuya died but then the game ends and she brings Marisa snacks I think you might just be dumb mate.

Anonymous Tue Jul 7 16:56:26 2020 No.24638470

>>24638066
>you will always need someone to lead people who want to be led
You're stuck in a monarchist mentality. You probably still think you need a king and royal court to get things done, which fits your support of the youkai elite. Most people throughout actual history didn't want to be led, but were forced under their rulers by threat of death; coincidentally that's how Gensokyo also works. There are humans, fairies and non-aligned youkai that don't want to be under their rule and would rather take care of themselves, but that's not allowed under the current system. Who was Fortune Teller trying to rule? He simply wanted to escape the system and live for himself, but that was denied. Tyranny can only last for so long, bootlicker anon.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 16:59:23 2020 No.24638494 File: 391 KB, 578x800, 1582096690430.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>24638470 see, i support monarchism and hierarchy, except with me on top. i just happen to be human and not youkai

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 17:05:01 2020 No.24638552 >>24636939 Just because you can escape using your own powers and skillsets doesn't mean people aren't trying to keep you caged. How hard is this to understand? Were people who broke out of jail successfully not ever jailed in the first place?

Anonymous Tue Jul 7 17:31:07 2020 No.24638833

>>24638552
again, in flandre's own words
>I wouldn't say I was "locked up".
so you are misleading the situation. the "jailed" did not even consider herself jailed or locked up at all. the futile attempts of others does not change that situation. if the locks placed on flandre's door were made of paper, that even a human could simply rip apart in the act of opening the door, would that still mean she was locked up?
what if i told you i am now trying to keep you caged? it's not in my power to actually do that. does that mean you are now locked up?

there is a significant difference between the situation of "a prisoner that has to plot an escape in order to get out of jail" and "when flandre wants to leave she simply leaves with a flick of her hand." in the former case there was a real and possible effort to cage the individual that required subterfuge and guile to pull off, by outwitting the captor. such an effort can fail or even be entirely prevented with suitable control. thus the possibility of escape was unknown and only realized by the attempt
but there is never a physical way to keep flandre locked up. no amount of effort or attempt can do it without her consent (and then it ceases to be truly being "locked up" in the meaning of the phrase), because she will always be able to overcome it with ease. the possibility of escape for her is always a certainty so there is no situation of her being locked away

an implication of what you are stating is that if a child attempted to bar the way of an adult that could step over them, the adult is thus locked up because even though the child could not actually accomplish the goal, the effort was enough. that is a ludicrous statement entirely

Anonymous Tue Jul 7 17:32:12 2020 No.24638843

>>24638552
A baby that can't open a locked door is locked inside a room.
A baby that learned to open a locked door is no longer locked in a room.
A parent that thinks their baby can't open locks believes that the baby is locked in the room with them.
That parent is mistaken in their belief when the baby learned to open locks without their knowledge.

Flan was never locked in the room, she always had the key. She never believed herself to be locked in the room regardless of what others thought. We know she frequently walks around the mansion and on occasion even goes outside if she feels the need to. This runs completely counter to the image of her being trapped in the basement for 500 years.
>Were people who broke out of jail successfully not ever jailed in the first place?
In Flan's case she could walk in and out of this "jail" whenever she pleases. It's not jail, it's an all expenses paid for bed and breakfast. She only bothers acting in a big way when someone or something threatens her take it easy lifestyle.

Anonymous Tue Jul 7 23:44:42 2020 No.24643091 [DELETED]

>>24638833
>>24638843
No, I'm not arguing that Flan is locked up. I'm just explaining why your refutation to that anons argument was invalid. Now I DO believe that an attempt to do something to someone else, no matter how futile, counts as far as the acting party is considered. If I try to kill you with a spoon, and I fail, I am still going to be at the very least arrested for the INTENT of committing a crime. And it is equivocal. Now the real question here is, DOES Remilia want Flan locked up? Because if she does, then even it the effort would be wasted, the social relationship between Flan and Remilia is a strained one at best. Which implies that her interactions with people in general are such that she still experiences social, if not physical, isolation. Which would make it matter, if it really was happening.

Now I don't really know either way, to be honest, as it's never expounded on, although from what little we do see Remilia doesn't seem to care, implying she never had any intention or desire to lock Flan up.

Anonymous Tue Jul 7 23:50:06 2020 No.24643152

>>24638833
>>24638843
No, I'm not arguing that Flan is locked up. I'm just explaining why your refutation to that anons argument was invalid. Now I DO believe that an attempt to do something to someone else, no matter how futile, counts as far as the acting party is considered. If I try to kill you with a spoon, and I fail, I am still going to be at the very least arrested for the INTENT of committing a crime. And it is equivocal. Now the real question here is, DOES Remilia want Flan locked up? Because if she does, then even it the effort would be wasted, the social relationship between Flan and Remilia is a strained one at best. Which implies that her interactions with people in general are such that she still experiences social, if not physical, isolation. Which would make it matter, if it really was happening. In this case, the question is not "Is Flandre unable to leave her room?" which is a hard no, the question is "Does Remilia try to lock Flandre in her room?" Your arguments are, amusingly, changing many goalposts and definitions in order to argue against what is essentially just a relative mental identity of a character anyway. The physical practicality of any lock is secondary to the desire and attempt of others around her to lock her up, in the context of her character, story, and the discussion.

Now I don't really know either way, to be honest, as it's never expounded on, although from what little we do see Remilia doesn't seem to care, implying she never had any intention or desire to lock Flan up.

Anonymous Wed Jul 8 00:40:51 2020 No.24643811

>>24643152
the real goalpost move is that the original statement of issue was
>Flan is literally a cute loli kept in the basement by her sister.
and it is clear she is not "kept" in the sense that she is constrained by anything other than her own will, as we know remilia does not have the power to keep her anywhere, at least not physically. if you want to make an argument about social pressure, that's different, but entirely not the intended meaning of that sentence at all. it's very clear that the intention of that statement is that flandre is kept downstairs against her will in some way
if the sentence was instead "Flan is literally a cute loli that her sister tries (or wants) to keep in the basement" then you would be right that goalposts are being moved. but the original statement was whether she is being "kept." attempting to keep and failing does not mean she is kept
intent != accomplishment, and words have meanings. attempting to keep != to keep, especially when it fails

furthermore, even the implication that she is pressured to stay down there by her sister is dubious, because, again, in flandre's own words
>I wouldn't say I was "locked up".
and
>You couldn't lock me up if you tried to.
which implies there is no real attempt to keep her there. at best, you could say remilia encourages it

so allow me to turn this around: what evidence is there that remilia wants her to stay in the basement? there are three implications of this: akyuu's comment in PMiSS
>Perhaps she's locked away, but it's also rumored she's a shut-in.
her profile in EoSD
>She cannot control herself, so generally she isn't let outside. She also doesn't try going out.
and EoSD extra
>Remilia: "Ah, that's right. I forgot about her. Patchouli is probably trying to stop her from getting out (by making it rain)."
but these only state the mansion itself, and even then, flandre has only truly tried leaving once, at a time when remilia wasn't even there (so patchouli's motivation easily could have been "so the mansion isn't left abandoned" or "oh shit flandre has never tried to leave before, panic" and not "flandre isn't allowed to leave"). the locks on the basement could mean absolutely nothing: she domiciles in the dungeon for the hell of it and there happen to be locks on dungeon doors

so if
>the question is "Does Remilia try to lock Flandre in her room?"
i'd like to ask why people believe this is the case to begin with

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 8 00:55:34 2020 No.24643975 >>24643811 >i'd like to ask why people believe this is the case to begin with EoSD omake.txt: "She cannot control herself, so generally she isn't let outside. She also doesn't try going out."

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 8 00:56:40 2020 No.24643988 >>24643975 is that remilia, or the mansion inhabitants in general? remilia was even shown to even forget flandre existed

Anonymous Wed Jul 8 00:56:52 2020 No.24643990

>>24643811
>entirely not the intended meaning of that sentence at all
I disagree. I don't think anyone who knows more about Flan than her theme thinks that it would be possible to keep her anywhere through force. I think you know this, and are just getting semantic.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 8 00:58:24 2020 No.24644007 >>24643988 It doesn't say, but it stands to reason that whatever the conventions of the mansion are, Remilia originally set them since she owns the fucking place.

Anonymous Wed Jul 8 01:01:38 2020 No.24644040

>>24643988
"Flandre is a loli who is (attempted to be) kept in the basement by the people of the scarlet devil mansion (which is ruled by her sister)"
Can be easily boiled down to
"Flandre is a loli who is kept in the basement by her sister"
It retains more or less the same meaning and is a good description of her characters role.
Arguing about the nitty gritty details of the sentence at that point to make it ever so slightly more accurate is just silly. Yeah, you could, but starting an argument about it is a waste of fucking time when everyone already understands what it means.

Anonymous Wed Jul 8 01:13:54 2020 No.24644214

>>24644007
>Remilia originally set them since she owns the fucking place.
that's quite the assumption for a girl that still uses a high chair and gets robbed regularly. one could easily say patchouli was acting on her own impulse and not by order
>>24644040
>Can be easily boiled down to
no, because they're two different sentences with different meanings. and the correct idea is
"flandre is attempted to be kept in the mansion but has only happened once, as far as we know"
and any implication that there are willful attempts to, physically or metaphorically, lock her in the basement, particularly by her sister, are not substantiated by anything but assumption

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 8 01:49:05 2020 No.24644566 >>24644214 >no, because they're two different sentences with different meanings Not different enough to matter. You're being autistic.

Anonymous Wed Jul 8 01:53:57 2020 No.24644603

>>24644214
>one could easily say patchouli was acting on her own impulse
One can easily say literally anything. The fact remains that:

1. Flandre "is not let outside."
2. Flandre has been "resting in the basement for 495 years"

strongly implies that somebody has been keeping her in the basement. And in fact, she is, if only by tacit agreement.

>and any implication that there are willful attempts to, physically or metaphorically, lock her in the basement, particularly by her sister, are not substantiated by anything but assumption
EoSD spell card notes QED Ripples of 495 Years: "The pent-up frustrations of 495 years' worth of imprisonment."

>>	Also a tard, for now Wed Jul 8 01:56:26 2020 No.24644627 >>24644566 >>24644603 Stop wasting time arguing semantics with a tard, you tards.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 8 01:57:15 2020 No.24644634 >>24644627 The pernicious revisionist canard that everyone who thinks that Flandre is kept in the basement is a secondary needs to be put to rest once and for all.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 8 02:22:56 2020 No.24644844 I wonder if the anon who ghost bumped this thread wants this to happen.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 8 02:24:49 2020 No.24644859 >>24644844 Sorry, I've deleted and then reposted a couple replies because I realized I fucked up and forgot stuff. If you saw any ghost bumps it was just me.

Anonymous Wed Jul 8 02:30:57 2020 No.24644922

>>24644040
>Can be easily boiled down to
>>24644566
>Not different enough to matter
That is a massive goalpost shift rewriting the whole sentence. The original post was referring to the fanon archetype of Flan, the loli vampire that wants friends but can't since she's stuck underground away from anyone that would ever visit (until they do because doujin plots). You want to change the meaning in order to win an argument.
>>24644634
It will be put away when you keep up with up-to-date canon material instead of 20 year old memes.

Anonymous Wed Jul 8 02:33:19 2020 No.24644948

>>24644922
>It will be put away when you keep up with up-to-date canon material instead of 20 year old memes.
I am fully up-to-date with canon material. The fact that Flandre CAN leave the basement is not "new" information. Literally the first time Flandre was introduced, 20 years ago, she had... left the basement.

>The original post was referring to the fanon archetype of Flan
The original post meant exactly the words that were in the post. Not whatever retarded shit you made up after the fact and pretended was in the post.

Anonymous Wed Jul 8 02:37:14 2020 No.24644978

>>24644948
>I am fully up-to-date with canon material
If that's the case you would know she isn't kept down there at all, she willingly lives down there because it's comfortable for her.
>The original post meant exactly the words that were in the post
Yet you twist it to mean whatever the fuck wins you an argument instead of what it actually means.

Anonymous Wed Jul 8 02:41:25 2020 No.24645012

>>24644978
>If that's the case you would know she isn't kept down there at all, she willingly lives down there because it's comfortable for her.
It's been made comfortable for her because that's where they're keeping her. Food does not magically spawn in the basement.

>Yet you twist it to mean whatever the fuck wins you an argument instead of what it actually means.
The word "fanon" isn't in the original post, you absolute retard. You added it. Leave it to a revisionist shithead such as yourself to claim that using the literal definition of a word is "twisting it."

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 8 02:45:34 2020 No.24645034 five years and fifty thousand posts from now, anons in /jp/ will still be arguing about whether remilia keeps flandre in the basement you can't win

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 8 02:47:58 2020 No.24645053 File: 121 KB, 747x749, 48374828392.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Wed Jul 8 02:58:12 2020 No.24645133

>>24645012
>It's been made comfortable for her because that's where they're keeping her. Food does not magically spawn in the basement.
They aren't keeping her there, she is staying there because it is comfortable. They bring her food because she is the second mistress of the mansion, not because she's a prisoner. It's a bed and breakfast that she's enjoyed for 500 years.
>The word "fanon" isn't in the original post, you absolute retard.
You're shifting the conversation, faggot. Are you that desperate? If your views on the lore and canon material are in conflict, your views are not based on canon. It's really that simple and embodies the meaning in >>24566333, the first post in this rabbit hole.

Anonymous Wed Jul 8 03:00:10 2020 No.24645151

>Flan is a loner that rarely leaves the basement and even rarer the mansion
Accurate
>Flan was once kept inside the mansion by Patchouli via a rainstorm
Accurate
>Flan is frequently spotted by visitors to the mansion wandering outside of the basement
Accurate
>Flan is kept in the basement
Inaccurate
It's really not that hard to grasp

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 8 03:01:03 2020 No.24645158 >>24645034 What makes it hilarious is that neither the concerned party is, well, concerned. Remi was all "oh yeah I forgot I had a sister", and Flan was "yeah I can get out whenever". Makes you wonder why the whole thing happened in the first place.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 8 03:05:13 2020 No.24645183 File: 322 KB, 403x535, 1593716312284.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] This thread has gone through many different arguments and they've all been completely autistic apl the way down.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 8 03:27:11 2020 No.24645347 >>24553722 Why though? The FT is evil no matter what his excuses are. Casting aside your humanity to become a youkai put you way below them

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 8 03:28:54 2020 No.24645363 >>24645347 no

Anonymous Wed Jul 8 03:31:04 2020 No.24645385

>>24645133
>You're shifting the conversation, faggot.
No, YOU shifted the conversation, you miserable little shit. You introduced fanon to the discussion where there never was any before, in a desperate attempt to make >>24566333 seem like they hadn't said something completely retarded.

>They aren't keeping her there, she is staying there because it is comfortable
So what does it mean when both Flandre's spell cards and profile say that she's not "allowed" out and that she'd been "confined" for 495 years? Or was this simply true for twenty years, and then suddenly rewritten in Chireikiden?

>>	Tard Wed Jul 8 03:36:49 2020 No.24645435 Actually on second thoughts flan basement posting is leagues above moralfag unintentional copycat posting.

Anonymous Wed Jul 8 04:17:45 2020 No.24645824

>>24645158
Flan wanted to learn how to pick locks, so Remi tried to help her by locking her in the basement. Flan was too stubborn to leave until she got it down, so Remi eventually had Flan's furniture and belongings moved downstairs so she could be comfortable while she practiced. Over time she got bored and stopped practicing every day, until eventually both of them forgot why she was down there in the first place.

Anonymous Wed Jul 8 04:43:15 2020 No.24646081

>>24645385
>No, YOU shifted the conversation
Holy shit, you are an insufferable retard, aren't you? When you don't get your way you become so delusional that you can't even acknowledge how this conversation started or what the initial posts actually said. You are either an excellent troll or the most retarded poster in this thread. The others were right to ignore your antics after your first shitposts.

Anonymous Wed Jul 8 04:46:02 2020 No.24646113

>>24646081
>When you don't get your way you become so delusional that you can't even acknowledge how this conversation started or what the initial posts actually said.
Oh, I know how the conversation started. >>24566333 said something utterly fucking retarded: "HAHA IMAGINE BEING A RETARD WHO BELIEVES [THING]" when [thing] happens to be an accurate description of canon, and revealed his own staggering retardation and faux-elitist shitheadedness. Then you spent a hundred posts trying to rescue it.

>The others were right to ignore your antics after your first shitposts.
The others are ignoring you because you are a insufferable, lying piece of shit who's going to the mats for a retarded little shithead so busy trying to shit on secondaries he doesn't even know what's canon.

Anonymous Wed Jul 8 04:51:09 2020 No.24646167

>>24646113
>doesn't even know what's canon
Once again, you ignore canon to suit your wrong beliefs. You've shown this several times over and there's no point in engaging you any further. If you want to post another mentally ill rant, go ahead since it'll make you feel better. But you're still wrong and ignorant.

Anonymous Wed Jul 8 04:54:15 2020 No.24646196

>>24646167
>Once again, you ignore canon to suit your wrong beliefs.
CANON sources say that Flandre is:

- deliberately kept away from people (EOSD profile)
- hasn't left the basement for 495 years (EOSD dialogue)
- has a lock on the basement door, which is kept locked (Chireikiden)
- has been "confined for 495 years" (Spell Card Notes)

You responded to this with pants-on-heads retarded fanfiction about how Patchouli actually runs the mansion.

>You've shown this several times over and there's no point in engaging you any further
You're not even pretending to talk about canon anymore. You're just a braindead little shitposter, defending an absolutely retarded post by claiming to defend canon while being so incredibly fucking stupid he doesn't know what canon is. Nobody even introduced the concept fanon to the conversation for over TWENTY-FOUR FUCKING HOURS after his post. Then, after that, retarded little revisionist shitheads like you tried to claim he was actually talking about fanon the whole time.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 8 05:00:28 2020 No.24646250 Yeah, this is the reason why people mostly ignore these threads. Arguing with a wall is just not fun nor insightful.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 8 05:10:51 2020 No.24646339 >>24645824 That's actually pretty funny. And here I was thinking it's because Flan kept blowing up Patche's hat which made her complaint to Remi and she was all "there I lock her door now shut the fuck up".

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 8 05:42:32 2020 No.24646627 >>24646339 Patchy's only 100; Flan was locked up for 495 years or so.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 8 05:45:04 2020 No.24646647 do we even know if flan's door was actually locked? I got the impression meiling only locked it there because they were keeping sakuya 'the murderer' in flan's room

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 8 05:51:50 2020 No.24646699 Ha the entire thread got completely derailed by literal sub double digit IQ retards. fuck you grimsokyo assclowns perfectsokyo wins again!

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 8 06:41:27 2020 No.24647184 >>24646647 I can't imagine Remi caring enough to, knowing how capable her sister is. It's probably just a verbal agreement that got spun by the fanbase like a lot of things.

Anonymous Wed Jul 8 08:55:52 2020 No.24649223

>>24646647
There's no proof that it's ever been locked outside of the recent manga, no. Which also means that there's no proof it was used for the express purpose of keeping Flan inside. Turns out the existence of a lock doesn't correlate to its actual use, but that won't stop the autists from sperging.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 8 09:24:40 2020 No.24649606 >>24645053 >>24637342 >>24587568 Extremely low quality.

Anonymous Thu Jul 9 08:39:18 2020 No.24666517

>>24554684
He wouldn't have been able to resurrect if he wasn't somewhere where a fool would read his book and steal his work, that's to say he needed a Kosuzu and you don't just find those outside the village easily. If Marisa didn't snitch to Reimu he would have had enough time to get away before she even knew what was going on.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 10 02:09:15 2020 No.24678538 What manga is this?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 10 02:17:05 2020 No.24678608 >>24678538 Forbidden Scrollery

Anonymous Fri Jul 10 19:53:38 2020 No.24691198

>>24553722
Realistically speaking, what is the likelihood I would turn into a youaki when I die, in the touhou world anyway? I thought youkai had to be feared but some people like Murasa simply become youkai from the sheer amount of lingering emotion they have from their past life. Would I become a youkai if I died with sheer rage against the world in my heart or do I actually have to make my presence in life known and important to other humans for that to happen?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 12 02:06:40 2020 No.24712952 >>24554085 Cringe

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 12 04:42:01 2020 No.24714336 >>24691198 If you died with sheer rage in your heart you'd probably become a vengeful spirit

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 12 04:56:37 2020 No.24714462 >>24554244 It's extremely peaceful. The only people wanting for anything are those human who fall in and don't make it to safety. There's fighting, but no (legal) lethal violence between citizens outside of exceptional circumstance.

Anonymous Sun Jul 12 04:58:35 2020 No.24714476

>>24556388
>random villager #204
Fed, healthy, scared now and then, otherwise has no needs not fulfilled.
>or gapped human #??? who's about to be eaten.
not a citizen

I honestly hate people who don't know what they're talking about with Touhou, but think they do. Shouldn't have bothered with this thread, it's always the same

Anonymous Sun Jul 12 05:04:46 2020 No.24714535
File: 403 KB, 1200x1600, 3f376851175b4dcbe7d27e47734a5f044bb5d87c041dc5eb0735664f308cff3e.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

There's no point in arguing about the meaning of "locked up".

Remi wants Flan to stay in the basement, so she puts her in a room and locks the door. Of couse she knows that it won't prevent her to escape.

Flan knows that Remi wants her to stay there and knows that she can get out whenever she wants, and sometimes she does but most of the time she just stay because she likes it after all.

What matters is that locking her up in the basement is an intention, nothing more.
They both know that it won't be enough but in the end she likes it so it's fine, end of story.

If Remi really wanted to prevent her from escaping I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to find someone with the power to do it. Like, she's still a youkai who's weak against spiritual attacks so maybe a miko could use charms to prevent her from moving. Or she could be placed in a room surrounded by a constant flow of water. Also there's a big barrier all around Gensokyo which isn't a physical object so maybe a miniature version of that could be used and Flan might not be able to destroy it.

Anonymous Sun Jul 12 05:33:26 2020 No.24714807

>>24714476
In hindsight, it is rather silly that this thread never become a thing before, like no one actually *get* what Gensokyo is supposed to be until a random guy die from it.
But I guess that's true even for irl matters, so eh.

Anyway this thread have served its purpose five years ago.

Anonymous Sun Jul 12 05:55:23 2020 No.24715044

>>24714462
>The only people wanting for anything are those human who fall in and don't make it to safety.
Except for the underground group looking to overthrow the youkai system in the village, who are influential enough for the likes of Keine has to brainwash the children so they don't rebel.
>>24714476
>I honestly hate people who don't know what they're talking about with Touhou, but think they do
Agreed, you are insufferable aren't you?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 12 06:26:08 2020 No.24715377 >>24715044 Pathetic.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 12 06:27:10 2020 No.24715387 >>24715044 >Except for the underground group looking to overthrow the youkai system in the village, who are influential enough for the likes of Keine has to brainwash the children so they don't rebel. You need to re-read.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 12 07:07:58 2020 No.24716481 >>24715044 >Except for the underground group looking to overthrow the youkai system in the village Guess this is what they meant by "interpreting things to one's own convenience".

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 12 15:51:10 2020 No.24727349 File: 101 KB, 520x767, 473748280.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>24715044 >Keine has to brainwash the children so they won’t rebel. Where did that come from?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 12 17:49:02 2020 No.24728921 >>24715044 haha yeah we should always have these threads, i love hearing from retards like this

Anonymous Sun Jul 12 22:41:27 2020 No.24732634

>>24643988
>remilia was even shown to even forget flandre existed
I wouldn't go that far. Forgetting to account for Flandre when deciding to visit the shrine isn't the same thing as forgetting that she exists altogether. It's always weird to me that people perceive a super strained relationship between Remilia and Flandre, as the only time we saw them interact prior to the recent manga was in BaiJR, which I saw as just playful sibling banter.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 12 22:48:55 2020 No.24732728 >>24715044 >Except for the underground group looking to overthrow the youkai system in the village, who are influential enough for the likes of Keine has to brainwash the children so they don't rebel. You misunderstood at least two things.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 05:02:27 2020 No.24736348 What's this thread about again?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 05:09:47 2020 No.24736400 File: 188 KB, 540x603, 1579844675855.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>24554381 I'd let Yukari eat me, if she had to do it to survive. Even if it was incredibly painful. Especially if it was incredibly painful.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 06:40:52 2020 No.24737095 >>24736348 Bringing up years old "discussion" that eventually leads to the same old song and dance, but now featuring an all new "is Flan actually locked in her basement?" argument.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 07:23:28 2020 No.24737430 >>24715044 You are the same retard who thought that Gensokyo has human leader because you speedread the wiki that is full of mistranslations, aren't you.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 13 15:16:12 2020 No.24744280 >>24736348 Some autist doesn't like that Flan was kept locked in her basement I guess

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 11:05:31 2020 No.24757540 dark

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 19:11:28 2020 No.24763909 reimu is cold

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 15 00:34:52 2020 No.24767358 evil

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 16 13:56:41 2020 No.24793300 >>24553722 I was

Anonymous Thu Jul 16 14:45:05 2020 No.24793954
File: 214 KB, 1492x1080, 1498688060417.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>24563680
This.
This is what a true touhou fan sounds like. That's an exact description of Gensokyo. It's hell on earth, youkai are ripping humans apart meanwhile a select few are trying to prevent that.
God forbid any of the true fans read up on the lore or play the pc98 games let alone read the stories that came with the original soundtracks zun released. That would just ruin their anime girl experience.

Anonymous Thu Jul 16 17:06:43 2020 No.24795998

>>24554682
>If a species cannot live without murder then they are too evil to be allowed to exist.
Nothing can coexist. Simply by living you are consuming an amount of resources. Every deer that exists is controlling territory that other deer could live in. The existance of deer limits the existance of other deer. The wolves take the food of the coyotes, the coyotes take the food of the wolves. The mouse eaten by a hawk won't be eaten by an owl, or a fox, or a stoat, or another owl. If you're capable of looking past a first level abstraction, any living thing necessitates the death of others. Even if you're a vegan, the grains you eat are being grown in a field that was sown by destroying forest habitat, leading to the death of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of animals, and preventing the lives of millions more. Even if you only care about the present, those fields are protected by killing insects, deer, birds, and anything else that will try and eat the crops. There is no way to live without killing others.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jul 16 17:09:13 2020 No.24796025 >>24554753 >if I thought there was a species on earth which killed humans frequently as a food source, and earths biosphere could continue without it As an aside, this perfectly describes mosquitos.

Anonymous Fri Jul 17 04:37:23 2020 No.24803867

>>24793954
Is this post satire? An arrogant grimsokyo faggot that thinks he's the only one that understands canon, and to support that cites pc98 and a picture of a meme translation. The reason people shit on these threads is because people like yourself are completely insufferable.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 17 05:07:13 2020 No.24804125 >>24803867 I'm pretty sure someone who posted a picture with Marisa wearing the thug life glasses is VERY serious. As you are who bumped this thread just to ask something so incredibly obvious.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jul 17 22:20:01 2020 No.24815463 >>24553722 >I know why people like her, but I will ignore all that shit and hate her anyway You're the kind of person who can't be reasoned with

Reply to thread

Name
E-mail
Subject
Comment
Action

Advanced search
Text to find
Subject [?]Search by post subject. Leave empty for any.
Username [?]Search for user name. Leave empty for any user name.
Tripcode [?]Search for tripcode. Leave empty for any.
Email [?]Search by email. Leave empty for any.
Filename [?]Search by image filename. Leave empty for any.
From Date [?]Enter what date to start searching from. Format is YYYY-MM-DD
To Date [?]Enter what date to start searching until. Format is YYYY-MM-DD
Image hash
Search in	All Posts OPs Only
Deleted posts	Show all posts Show only deleted posts Only show non-deleted posts
Internal posts	Show all posts Show only internal posts Show only archived posts
Order	New posts first Old posts first
Capcode	All Posts Only by Users Only by Mods Only by Admins Only by Developers
Results	Posts Threads
Action	[ Simple ]