/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

Why is a human becoming a youkai such a big crime in Gensokyo? Why is it so grave that Reimu kills someone, the Fortune Teller, for the first and only time in the series?

[Anonymous No.]

Another fucking Grimsokyo thread? Fuck off.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20511165
I'm not a big fan of Grimsokyo, which is precisely why I want to know what people think of probably the only instance in canon that's utterly incompatible with the vision of Gensokyo I prefer, which is that it is mostly a happy place.

[Anonymous No.]

Because if humans were aware they could become immortal youkai then many would do so, leading to the death of all youkai because they need humans' fear in order to exist which is why Gensokyo was created in the first place

You dumb fucking discord reddit user

[Anonymous No.]

>>20511182
You know exactly what you're doing. This thread is gonna devolve into Grimsokyo shitposting and you know it. And why exactly did you make this fucking thread? We already have a human vs. youkai autism thread.
20367608

[Anonymous No.]

>>20511200
I made it because I read Forbidden Scrollery and wanted to see what people thought.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20511194
Why doesn't that apply to magician youkai? If it does, then Marisa's ambitions to (near) immortality, which she has expressed repeatedly,should put her in direct conflict with Reimu.

[Anonymous No.]

Oh right. The shitposting thread. The shitposting thread for jay. the thread chosen especially to post in jay, jay's shitposting thread. That shitposting thread?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20511182
I dunno man, the "Reimu let's several outsiders die despite knowing where they were because fuck it, it's all numbers" thing is arguably worse. At least here she was delivering "justice"

[Anonymous No.]

>>20511256
What was that one in?

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>20511159
It fucks with the balance in Gensokyo.
Humans that become Youkai are trouble through and through. If Fortune Teller didn't get Crimson Slash'd then I think we would be able to see why they're this much an issue that it warrants an immediate execution.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20511374
Aside from the shittalking that got him killed to begin with

[Anonymous No.]

>>20511182

Drac-kun was a fucking faggot who did everything he possibly could do wrong and then decided to start talking shit and running his mouth about it.

Support your local red and white.

Hakurei forever.

Forever Hakurei.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20511216
Marisa's claims to immortality are kind of a facade. She wants all the perks of being nonhuman like living a long time and quick healing, but ultimately she treasures her humanity. Marisa being a regular human is one of her defining character traits, and the "it would sure be nice if X" stuff is meant to juxtapose and ground her, similarly to how her and Reimu are juxtaposed for effort vs natural gifts.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20511272
Dolls in Pseudo Paradise

[Anonymous No.]

>>20511216
It does but it applies to VILLAGERS.

Marisa is not a villager.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20511256
Those were convicted criminals. They were out there for a reason.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20511729
She didn't know that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20511729
Furthermore, it should be added that those human thieves were threated the exact same way fairies who cause mischief are generally treated, which is with death (which is a bit less of an issue for fairies admittedly, but you can't say that the village has a strictly pro-human bias). Human Village's policies are draconian and pre-modern, as the HV is a pre-modern society, and it can be conjectured that outsiders are given as much leeway as fairies when it comes to negotitations, which is to say, they are treated like people up until the point it becomes inconvenient as officially, they have no protections and are technically outlaws not defended by any treaty.
>>20511737
Who said she doesn't? A gang wandering outside the Human Village that themselves were actively avoiding the Hakurei Shrine would be suspicious in the least. They clearly were showing no inidication to be of the village, so Reimu had no obligation to protect them, and in fact her protecting every outsider that did wander into Gensokyo would be violating her mandate.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20511747
>They clearly were showing no inidication to be of the village, so Reimu had no obligation to protect them, and in fact her protecting every outsider that did wander into Gensokyo would be violating her mandate.
This doesn't have anything to do with my statement. I'm not making any claims to the contrary.

I'm also not criticizing her. I'm just saying that if you want to talk morally dubious, knowing that there are humans you, who save humans, could have saved, but letting them die arbitrarily because they don't fall under your jurisdiction is definitely morally dubious.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20511747
also
>that themselves were actively avoiding the Hakurei Shrine
I don't remember anything like this and still, just seeing them you wouldn't be able to assume anything about whether they were good or bad people. Like they camped out, correct? What if it had been a group of spirited away campers? Reimu wouldn't change her modus operandi.

That's the point I'm really making. It doesn't matter that they were criminals, and Reimu made literally no indication that she knew or didn't know they were anyway, so it's safer to assume she didn't know. "Justice" wasn't her reason for not saving them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20511755
>>20511760
Welcome to what the fairies have to face every day, and why Cirno and the Three Fairies of Light ineffectually have dreams to conquer the region. Being an outsider or fairy in Gensokyo means being part of the bottom class, so low that your protections only extend as far as people are willing to entertain it. You can be shot, stabbed, eaten, or worse because that's what the upper classes feel like doing at the time, and you have no legal protections because you aren't classified as being in the law.

And it's a terrible system, but it's still better than what came before it. At least Reimu has the courtesy to not kill fairies out right even though it would make a lot of her fights go a lot quicker and there's nothing barring her from restraining, and will help outsiders return to the outside world if they approch her, even if she could just as easily feed them to Suika and be right within the law to do so. She's the "maybe" in equation, which, as fickle as it is, is better than a flat "no".

[Anonymous No.]

>>20511774
>Welcome to what the fairies have to face every day, and why Cirno and the Three Fairies of Light ineffectually have dreams to conquer the region. Being an outsider or fairy in Gensokyo means being part of the bottom class, so low that your protections only extend as far as people are willing to entertain it. You can be shot, stabbed, eaten, or worse because that's what the upper classes feel like doing at the time, and you have no legal protections because you aren't classified as being in the law.
I know, that's the point I was making. >>20511256

And Suika (probably) doesn't eat people. She doesn't actually play the legitimate "core" part of an oni in that she won't kidnap humans. She talks herself up a lot, but is also a known liar (and the fact that she doesn't harm/kidnap humans is one told through narration rather than any spoken word).

[Anonymous No.]

ZUN always makes sure to, in most cases, shroud "Grimsokyo"-ish things in a veil of deniability. We hear about how outsiders are eaten in Perfect Memento in Strict Sense, but that's colored by the fact that we know the youkai describing the situation to our author (Hieda no Akyuu), are blowing up their actions to seem tougher (and presumably generate more fear). That's why I think the incident with Fortune Teller is so interesting. It's unmitigated violence in a world where mitigation is the name of the game.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20511780
That was merely an example, but what I'm trying to say is that though frustrating as Reimu's behavior is, her actions and spellcard system have done a lot more good to the region then bad.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20511701
So if it became known that you'd be off the hook if you left the village and a significant amount of the population left, it'll be fine and Reimu wouldn't do anything about it?

[Anonymous No.]

>>20511216
youkai marisa will be the final boss of touhou

[Anonymous No.]

>>20511862
If a significant tried to leave, I don't see the youkai letting that happen.

[Anonymous No.]

I heard a theory that Reimu would had spared the fortune teller if he didn't called her "youkai miko."
After all, she is always under Yukari's influence and she don't really like it, but can't do anything about it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20511216
Marisa has had chances to become more powerful or even outright immortal (IN extra) and turned it down. we also have no evidence that becoming a magician like Alice would be considered more dangerous than something like someone becoming a hermit or Futo's bizarre existence. She wants to be powerful but values her humanity. the whole point of her character is to be The Ordinary Magician.

anyway we've had this thread 900 times, fuck off.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20511694
implying dipp is even remotely canon
and even in that story she wasn't aware of the murders until the culprit left

[Anonymous No.]

>>20512085
I consider it about as canon as anything PC 98

[Anonymous No.]

>>20512085
Also I thought you were wrong and double checked and
>even in that story she wasn't aware of the murders until the culprit left
Incorrect, she knew about them.

>Come to think of it, that girl was the only woman of the eight honest men, not that it really matters. Oh, today was just another boring day...
She was aware but didn't really give a shit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20511892
More then that. Reimu suffers borderline poverty to remain human even though she has an instant I-win button on the reserve (Fantasy Heaven) whose abuse could at the same time fix a lot of her problems and well as lead to the swift discard of her humanity.
The idea that she's a youkai or associated with youkai probably gets to her on a deeper level because of this, combined with the fact that most humans don't trust her enough to give a donation even though she works to protect them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20511882
>>20511892
Reimu is the secret police that takes cases the secret youkai in the village can't or don't handle themselves, mainly handling humans who show signs of exceptional skill and talent and are knowledgeable enough to uncover the actual nature of the village itself.
It's also clear that not even those who left the village are necessarily safe, as she is also keeping a close eye on Marisa, who severed her village connections long ago. Perhaps their entire 'friendship' is founded on her constant surveillance. >>20511865 is not wrong in saying a youkai Marisa would be powerful enough to rival or surpass even the strongest youkai and gods of Gensokyo, and obviously ruin the power balance itself.

Calling her a "youkai miko" is simply telling the truth. She's there to cull the humans should they try to leave the caste the youkai put them in, even if peacefully as the Fortune Teller wanted to do. She works to keep the status quo, and that status quo is youkai rule.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20511159
Reimu was just seeing red after seeing her precious Kosuzu-chan possibly grievously harmed. If you reread it, you will notice she seemed really in distress up until when she slayed our boy FT.

>>20512190
The later games are making it clear that Reimu is only right to keep her gaze on Marisa.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20512190
>It's also clear that not even those who left the village are necessarily safe,
>>20511159
>a human villager becoming a youkai is the greatest sin there is
>a human villager
And the page you posted doesn't imply that it's Marisa--if anything it's just more about her keeping an eye on KOSUZU (because that's what the arc was about, that's who had that book she's burning, etc--she doesn't even look Marisa's way on the page), that's just a theory people (grim faggots) like for some reason although there's much more evidence of Reimu not giving a shit whether or not Marisa becomes a Magician. She didn't go after Alice, although Alice is a known human-turned Magician. It's not known when she came to Gensokyo, but is certain that she transformed recently to her appearance in PCB, and regardless she's certainly no villager.

I will repeat: this page can't be used as evidence that she's keeping watch on Marisa (and again she's not even looking at Marisa here, just Akyuu and a book). If she actually was concerned about Marisa turning, she'd say something. You know? Like how she said stuff to Kosuzu along with everyone else saying "Kosuzu, hey, stop fucking with youkai"? She has ample opportunity to say something to Marisa and doesn't. It's not like she can't, there'd be no need to be secretive about it. She was only even half secretive with Kosuzu because her store had become a political tool and so she needed to treat things delicately. Nothing political about Marisa. She cut her ties with the village, and is no longer a concern.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20512265
and now I must back down immediately since I apparently forgot the preceding page's context >>20512263

She's definitely giving Marisa a look, but at the same time nothing else I brought up was incorrect. Even REIMU'S casually considered becoming immortal here and there.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20512190
>peacefully

[Anonymous No.]

>a youkai Marisa would be powerful enough to rival or surpass even the strongest youkai and gods of Gensokyo
Every fucking time this guy posts he always write some absolute pantsu on head retarded shit it's actually amazing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20512275
>Casually
Reimu might joke about it, but the idea of giving into her abilities is most certainly NOT something she takes lightly, as the entire concept of the spellcard system relies on the responsible and restrained use of her powers. She's always just one decision away from becoming an unstoppable force that surpasses Yukari herself in raw destructive potential, and her effortlessly cleaving the Fortune Teller in two is a mere party trick compared to her abilities unchecked.
Even limited use of her unstoppable power is enough to get people fearing her the way they fear youkai, which would run the risk of turning her into a Jinyou through mutual superstiton a-la Byakuren.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20511194
What's keeping them from learning that they can escape their situation like Alice and Byakuren, considering Akyuu casually describes them as ascended humans?

Not to mention Reimu casually let a human traitor (Sakuya) and a direct danger to Gensokyo (Utsuho) go with a slap on the wrist.

[Anonymous No.]

>>20512336
who quote

[Anonymous No.]

>>20512265
>And the page you posted doesn't imply that it's Marisa--if anything it's just more about her keeping an eye on KOSUZU
This is incorrect. If you look at the full page, you'll see that Kosuzu is referred to afterwards in a comic relief sense, as she isn't taken as serious a threat at this point as the other humans (Marisa, Akyuu).
>She didn't go after Alice, although Alice is a known human-turned Magician.
We don't know when she turned a Magician in either PC-98 or Windows timelines. It could have been well before Reimu was even born ("recently" in youkai Magician timescale), or she became a Magician in Makai before coming to Gensokyo, which would have her treated the same as any other youkai that came to Gensokyo. Your past doesn't matter once you become a resident of Gensokyo, after all.
>I will repeat: this page can't be used as evidence that she's keeping watch on Marisa (and again she's not even looking at Marisa here, just Akyuu and a book)
She's keeping watch on all of them pictured at least. The words are enough to get this. How many humans is she keeping track of exactly? She self-admittedly doesn't know much about the goings in the village itself (gets most of her information from Yukari, Marisa and friends), so it's safe to say it could be all the humans she could interact with. There really aren't too many humans that fit this, so it comes down to those pictured plus other exceptional Gensokyo residents like Sanae and Sakuya, exceptional outsiders like Sumireko, and possibly Maribel and Renko though they've never met afaik.
>If she actually was concerned about Marisa turning, she'd say something. You know?
Do you really think saying something would stop Marisa of all people? That would likely have her pursue it further and in secret more than anything else. She knows Marisa as well as Rinnosuke does, and he knows how to manipulate her whims and desires to his benefit (to not pilfer his store). There's no reason to assume Reimu doesn't do the same in regards to Marisa's seemingly trivial pursuits of youkaidom or immortality.