/jp/ - Otaku Culture

>greatest output
Why would I or anyone else care whether we output or produce anything?
This is some extreme normalfag thinking you got their buddy.

Just learn Japanese already and shut up.

>>11523802
It's not because of the anti-EOP people. /jp/ filled a void until other places did the same; at the time of /jp/'s creation, the only other place to discuss VNs in English was novelnews. After /jp/'s creation, we got #tlwiki, then it became an acceptable topic on major anime forums like AnimeSuki, and as their popularity grew, so did discussion on other places (and some new sites popped up/branched out to help newbies with VNs, like fuwanovel). Then, a while ago, /vg/ was created and took all low-level VN discussion from /jp/.

Back then, if you wanted the 'VN community's opinion' on something, you would ask /jp/. Nowadays, /jp/ is only a small, specific part of the VN community, and there are much better places to approach 'the VN community'.

>>11523835
If you feel pride from being useless I pity you.

>>11523835
He got their buddy? Who would be so crass as to commit to friend stealing?

And as for 'our output', these were translators who were translating something and decided to come to /jp/, not /jp/ posters who decided to start translating. It was only 'our output' because there were practically no other distribution channels.

What the fuck is a scene and a community?
why cant people just enjoy things without you collectivist faggots having to fuck everything?

>>11523845
Why would he feel pride for browsing a shitposting board where someone who translates VN's also posts?

>>11523835
It's a sad day when people are actually looking down on original content.

>>11523854
Translation doesnt produce anything, it just helps retards that dont know how to read.

>>11523854
>original content
If you like shitty re-writes, sure.

>>11523842
>the only other place to discuss VNs in English was novelnews.

There was a fairly active visual novel and dating sim forum on Megatokyo back in the day:
http://www.megatokyo.com/extra/dating_sim_faq-ver1.htm

Though it's quite telling that most of this FAQ is about how to learn Japanese.

>>11523849
A community is a group of people who frequently interact with each other and who often use the same protocols of communication (such as /jp/ and the VN-related channels on Rizon, in this case).

A scene is a community characterized by an activity many people in that community do; in this case, the VN translation is composed of people who are in some way related to VN translation projects or the people involved with them.

Translations are offensive to the original writer.
It was a shame when /jp/ used to be a major player in the translation scene.

>>11523862
Just because we like the same things doesnt make us a community. A scene sounds like the same thing but rephrased to look ``cool''.

Just fuck off, a guy being on /jp/ translating stuff and posting about it doesnt mean you are part of that, its just something he is doing and you are choosing to take pride in it because it just so happens he posts here too.
There isnt a difference if he posts on this board or on a different website, its not something YOU are doing or are involved in.

>>11523861
That's a FAQ from 2001, I was talking about 2008. #denpa was also active before 2008, but by 2008 they'd already become 'that group of people who were once involved in VN translation' (and similarly, novelnews reached its peak before 2008); was the Megatokyo forum still active in 2008?

>>11523847
Plenty of projects were announced on /jp/, and started by /jp/sies. That doesn't mean all the work took place here, but it was folks like Eksopl and AoRF doing the work (as in the OP example).

And, to quote the Translation Library (VNTS before VNTS):
>4chan / JP
>If you can look past the rubbish posted you’ll often find information on translation projects and updates by translators not found elsewhere.

>>11523866
>Just because we like the same things doesnt make us a community.

For the record, Shii retracted that essay.

>>11523867
>was the Megatokyo forum still active in 2008?

It was through the early to mid 2000s, not sure about after that (because seriously, who cared about Megatokyo at that point?)

>>11523873
If you're implying what I think you are implying, you are also a retard. Shii did not invent every thought ever, the ideas against collectivism have likely existed since before someone wrote them down and stamped their name on it, and even that was way before him.
Shii is just some dickwad who copy pasted a bunch of shit other anons wrote and tried to pass it off as his. I dont know why anyone keeps namedropping him, its the same as any other tripfaggot or attentionwhore.

>>11523866
>Just because we like the same things doesnt make us a community.
Correct. But the fact that we are both on this same board discussing the same topic, and the fact that we have been discussing these things for a long time in the same places, makes us part of the VN community (not to be confused with the VN translation community), or at least this part of it (as the community has become rather fragmented nowadays).

>Just fuck off, a guy being on /jp/ translating stuff and posting about it doesnt mean you are part of that, its just something he is doing and you are choosing to take pride in it because it just so happens he posts here too.
>There isnt a difference if he posts on this board or on a different website, its not something YOU are doing or are involved in.
Correct. You are probably not part of the VN translation community, unless you also happen to have a lot of contact with VN translators. You are, however, probably part of the VN community, the people who read the VNTS thread every week and comment on the translations, and occasionally read newly released translations and discuss them with other members of the community. That's something you do, and that makes you part of the community.

>>11523873
I've read some of Shii's stuff, but I don't know what you're referring to. Do you have a link to that essay?

>>11523842
>>11523867
Didn't insani.org have forums?

Also, TLWiki and Baka-Tsuki existed then. I think TLWiki spun off from NDT.

>>11523880
>words
If you don't have anything to say then don't.

No one even speaks Japanese here anymore, its just a bunch of retards copying Trevor all day, circlejerking on warosu. Then they go and piss the janitor off and he ends up throwing a fit banning and deleting everything else that the warosu posters decide to derail.

Therefore, something translations would no longer be possible on /jp/.

>>11523866
>a guy being on /jp/ translating stuff and posting about it doesnt mean you are part of that, its just something he is doing and you are choosing to take pride in it because it just so happens he posts here too

That is 100% correct.

But it won't change the facts that /jp/ used to be inhabited by people who did things, that now it's inhabited by shitheads, and that it's an unwelcome change if you nevertheless prefer visiting /jp/ over a different website.

>>11523880
Actually it doesnt work that way at all.
by your logic owning a car and taking it to a mechanic makes someone a member of the automotive sport community or someother.

>>11523898
Nobody speaks here though, this imageboard only supports text and images.

>>11523903
Who cares?
Are you unable to visit other websites? Is moot holding you at gunpoint preventing you from browsing a site other than 4chan?

>>11523896
Not sure, I joined the community in 2008 and back then insani was all but dead - they'd released True Remembrance in February 2008 after a long period of no releases and haven't done anything since then. I'm pretty sure I checked every inch of insani's site back then, so if they still had a forum I would've found it.

TLWiki was created in 2008 and it was very new back then.

>>11523906
I don't think you understood a word of what he said.

I dabbled in VN translation but it turned out dived in head first into the wrong thing by working with cudders. What a mess that was. Now I don't want to have anything to do with VN translations ever again, so I just play stuff on my own and lurk /jp/. It's not like anyone needs me anyway, there are plenty of other translators with more time and dedication.

>>11523889
http://wakaba.c3.cx/shii/shiichan

It's actually good (apart from the idea that an anonymous board can't be a "community", which I think is retarded). But apparently Shii isn't happy with this any more, just like his furry article and every other actually-kind-of-worthwhile thing he's written.

>>11523877
My bad, it just seems strange you'd both take fault with something so specific.
I'd say /jp/ is more of a community than most boards out there. If a community is a bunch of people sharing a place and having the same characteristics, /jp/ is one of the most communal boards I've ever seen. Just look at all the memes and in-jokes and history and board culture (sorry) we have. The idea that faceless, nameless people can't be a community is just dumb.

>>11523906
It's not the act of reading VNs that makes you part of the community, it's the act of discussing it with other members of the community. If you go to car races frequently and chat a lot with the people there about the sport, you become part of the automotive sport community - you don't even need to own a car for it. In the same way, if you go to places like /jp/ to discuss VNs frequently you become part of the community.

>>11523916
Were you the elusive translator Cudder kept referring to?

He kept saying he had a translator, but he couldn't tell us who because of an NDA or to respect his client's privacy or something. Then all his work turned out to be machine-translated garbage anyway, so I have no idea what the hell he was talking about.

>>11523911
I prefer anonymous exchange of ideas to all other forms of communication. Yes, that often prevents me from deriving enjoyment from using sites that do not conform to this interaction model.

Why people always need to start war because of semantics?

The VN "community" can suck my cock. I can discuss stuff here if I want to and that's about it.

Why you would want to pander to idiots who can't even bring up the dedication to learn Japanese is beyond me.

>>11523938
Why you omit verbs?

>>11523930
No, there were a couple of other translators when I was around. One guy was very good, the other guy didn't know what the fuck he was doing. His translations looked like something by a guy that just took intermediate Japanese or something.

Lesson learned: Group projects suck in school and they still suck in translation groups. I only do occasional subs and translations all alone. Screw group work.

>>11523942
Would you have started learning Japanese in the first place if it weren't for visual novels that other people had translated?

>>11523943
Because I am nip and my English is bad.

Uhhh, most of us were picked up by crunchy roll, manga gamer, and a few other guys.
It's still us from /jp/, but we are getting paid for it now.

/jp/ has become weeaboo. Not in the joking kind of way, but actually weeaboo. Knowing Japanese is a status symbol, and it's a barrier to entry that keeps those inferior English-only peasants from playing the precious Japanese games freshly milked from Japan's teat.

I really miss the "subs fucking where?" attitude 4chan used to have. You weren't expected to know Japanese. It's an English-language site for anime fans. Sure, a small handful of people did bother to learn the language, and they shared their gift by providing translations. Everyone wins.

Now everything just sucks.

>>11523957
I guess it's no coincidence that the "NEET" meme started dying as the "EOP" meme started picking up steam.

>>11523967
Well said.

>>11523967
I don't think you were really here back then. The consistency and quality of translations back then were far worse. gg isn't nearly as bad as the genuinely bad shit that existed back then.

>>11523967
The good old times...

>>11523952
I learned Japanese because I didn't want to be part of the whining masses whose only line seems to be "translation when?"
You know, the people OP wants to pander to.

But to really answer your question: There's enough translated entry-level VNs already.

>>11523977
He didn’t argue otherwise.

>>11523977
Kid, I remember Censored Vagina, Jinmen, Mirror Moon, I could go on.

>>11523967
moot's fault
janny has helped us reach that level

Yes, it's better if you know Japanese, but the whole "EOPs must die" thing is really overdone.

The real thing stopping /jp/ for learning Japanese is that a lot of us are lazy unmotivated shits. And on 4chan it's supposed to be okay to be a lazy unmotivated shit.

>>11523988
There’s nothing cute about the word janny. Stop forcing it.
Meido was cute so it was ok to force it.

>>11523950
Cudder's bullshit isn't representative for any type of group projects.

In VN translation, there are two kinds of projects:

A. Person with no notable skills decides it would be awesome to translate a VN. He invites several people (some with actual useful skills like translation) and forms a group with him as leader and starts a project for a game. After some initial progress group members start disappearing and eventually the 'leader' grows bored and disappears as well. The project will inevitably fail. Cudder is a bit of a special case in that he pretty much purposely screws things up and often sees the projects through to the end, but I guess he falls under this category as well.

B. A translator who actually knows what he's doing starts translating something he likes, and invites a hacker, one or more editors and some QCers along the way, either forming a TL group or just continuing as a makeshift TL group. This is the kind of project you want to be involved with. There's no guarantee the project will actually finish, but it will make good progress and the amount of members dropping out is minimal.

Joining a VN translation group means hard work, but if you join a type B group you won't be working with complete hacks and a bullshit leader.

>>11523994
dude..... are you like........ FUCKING RETARDED or something lol

>>11523983
>You know, the people OP wants to pander to.

Okay, "pander" is quickly becoming a misused buzzword.

Whole anti-EOP group is similar role-playing than people pretending to be NEETs; those people are just pretending they know Japanese.

>>11523994
Do the research and spend 10-20 minutes combing through the archive. Suigin forced "meido" in the same way Tokiko forced "NSJ". At least "janny" looks like it's been picked up by a range of people straight away.

Though for the record, I do agree: "meido" is cute and "janny" sounds awful, I just think saying, "Stop forcing it." is a bit ignorant and hypocritical.

I don't think EOP should really be taken too literally. It's mostly just to keep /a/ and /v/ away.

>>11524006
Scratch that, my brain blotted out "Meido was cute so it was ok to force it."
My apologies.

Still, I think if people like "janny", I don't see why it should be any different.

>>11524006
Wait, you don't realize why a non-cute word is appropriated for the current janitor either?

>>11524006
Did you miss ‘so it was ok to force it?’ And janny is used by the same people who said NSJ and whatever else that followed.

>>11524011
>My apologies.
It’s ok, I accept your honest feelings.

>>11523997
"Pander" (specifically, X-pandering, for example 'otaku-pandering') has been a buzzword on /a/ for like 2 years now. It's just slowly carrying over to /jp/ now.

(Enjoy your VN discussion where everything is described as otaku-pandering and moefag-pandering in a couple months!)

>>11524001
There are huge VN threads of people who clearly do speak Japanese.

I think most of the "EOP" people are just trolls, but occasionally someone says, "Hey, you're just trolls!" then one person who happens to be both an "EOP" troll and a Japanese speaker appears, and proves they can speak Japanese.

It's like some sort of Venn diagram thing but it doesn't matter how much overlap there is. Once there's any, it's all over.

>>11523942
>idiots who can't even bring up the dedication to learn Japanese is beyond me.
Some people like sharing nice things with unfortunate people.

Don't you people have /vg/ to shit up now?

>>11524020
I've seen that here but not very often. It never really registered as a thing.

Oh well, there have been worse words.

>>11524009
Maybe it keeps /a/ and /v/ away, but it does so by derailing the VNTS thread on a weekly basis, plus occasionally other VN threads as well. Scorched earth strategies don't work very well when you're fighting on the last of your remaining home turf.

>>11524032
I don't go to VNTS and I don't think most actual moonreading /jp/ers do either. Just trolls. We tend to stay in VN general.

>>11524009
>I don't think EOP should really be taken too literally. It's mostly just to keep /a/ and /v/ away.

It also completely destroyed the translated VN discussion on /jp/, which is one of the main topics /jp/ was created for. And don't start that "go to /vg/" crap. The existence of other boards should not dictate what we can and can't discuss on /jp/ (besides /a/, and I guess /v*/ for games that aren't VNs, eroge, doujin, etc.).

This tactic reminds me of the shitposters who shitpost because it keeps X group away, when the shitposting is far more harmful.

What's funny is, people do want to discuss translated games. There was a Kamidori revival a couple of months ago, those threads were crazy popular. Same with the recent influx of Saya no Uta threads, though I think that's just one guy. We occasionally have Nasuverse, R07 and Rance threads, but they've become like a rare treat instead of a mainstay of /jp/. Even new translations often pass us by, when there's a hugely popular thread dedicated to the status of translations.

>>11524041
Once the VNTS thread falls, the VN General will be next. Trust me, the shitposters will shit things up until there is nothing left to shit up.

>>11524069
Then we'll start discussing everything in Japanese.

Either way, keep us out of this. VN general and shitposters are not the same people. Maybe some shitposters happen to come to VN general, but we're mostly just people that want to talk about VNs in peace.

>>11524050
I liked those specific threads because I just hate those 'mass threads' like /jp/'s and/vg/'s VN general threads. It is much more enjoyable to have single thread for single game.

>>11523802
Get a load of this newfag. We never translated anything, only one person actually worked on that Idolmaster game and posted here at random times.

>>11524073
Then what about those of us who've never managed to learn Japanese? I've tried and failed many times, and to this day my Japanese still isn't good enough to read moege narration. I'm sure there are many people who have the same problem.

>>11524078
Yep, I think more people's first course of action when they want to discuss a game should be to see if there's a thread about it, if not, make one. The VN general is fine, but there are 160 spaces for threads and they don't all have to be Touhou.

Also I'm not saying making a Rance General, Nasuverse General, etc. and keep it alive for weeks at a time, because that would be dumb. But more people should feel free to discuss the games. And yes I'm aware I can make these threads, but I'm too scared just like everyone else (also there's that annoying thread limit now).

>>11524084
If you insist on pretending to be an older poster, please at least refrain from using words like 'newfag'. You're not convincing anyone like this.

>>11524086
>Maybe some shitposters happen to come to VN general
I honestly wouldn't mind the shitposting if I thought most of them really were VN general regulars, but I get the impression that almost all of them are here for the random threads and care more about the "integrity of /jp/" or some shit like that, than actually discussing anything on-topic.

>>11524086
>the same problem
And what would that be? Not caring enough? Too busy with work/school? Being retarded?

>>11524095
Being a lazy unmotivated shit.

>>11524086
I'm not against VNTS. Those are trolls, there's no use complaining at me. We've got nothing to do with each other.

All we can do is hope that we get better/more janitors or something.

>>11524089
>also there's that annoying thread limit now
I barely make any new threads, what is this thread limit you speak of?

My problem with creating threads for specific VNs is that they often go ignored. I can understand why, as I often stick to the VNTS without browsing the rest of the board much, but still. The only exceptions seem to be threads for newly translated games, which receive proper discussion but with tons of unmarked spoilers (so anybody truly caring about the VN will stay out of them, and by the time I've finished reading them they're no longer being discussed), and VNs that everyone has read, which most often derail into shitposting.

>>11524095
A combination of those, yes. Studying for some time, then trying to read something and fail even though what I'm trying to read is retardedly simple really demotivates me. It makes me just give up since I have better things to do with my time than unproductively failing at learning Japanese.

>>11524006
>Suigin forced "meido"

No he didn't (and even if he did, it did not matter), and I don't have to search the archive to know. I remember the thread where people decided to call Meido a meido. It just seemed natural and got accepted naturally. /jp/ used to work like that back in the day.

>>11523861
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/fredrin/megatokyo-visual-novel-game

I can't believe the amount of idiots giving this dumbass money.

Is this the autism thread?

Did anyone mention that even the good translations aren't actually good?

I wouldn't mind participating in a translation project if I thought that the time and effort put would show in the finished product.

>EOP thread

Saged.

>>11524084
Andrey's name is in the fucking screenshot. He created Fuuka and the first archive, not to mention our Minecraft server.

Yeah, I'm sure he was just one of those casual /jp/ers who came here once a year.

>>11524006
>>11524123
...but I like to search the archive, so here's your research:

>>/jp/?task=search2&ghost=yes&search_text=meido&search_filename=&search_datefrom=2009-05-26&search_ord=old&search_res=post

>>11524111
>what is this thread limit you speak of?

3 hours now. It is (or at least was) /jp/-only. Getting a thread deleted resets the limit, so it only affects on-topic posters.

>My problem with creating threads for specific VNs is that they often go ignored.

Well there's nothing wrong with a thread not getting 50+ replies, which I think is something people (especially the staff) have lost sight of. So what if something isn't a General that gets 300 replies in two hours? It's just a message board, if only 3 people have something to say about Sakura Wars then it's not a big deal.

>>11524144
Oh I guess that makes me Andrey then.

>>11524144
You should know better than to respond to something like that.

>>11524158
Notice the reply to that first one.

Also:
>>/jp/?task=search2&search_text=meido&search_username=suigin&search_ord=old

It's a cute meme, but you're nuts if you think it was organically adopted by everyone.

I bet you guys'll start calling muramasa and Baldr Sky shit just like you did with Muv Luv. But I guess neither of them will be translated in this decade, so whatever.

>>11524171
Sorry, I just have a crush on him so it can't be helped.

>>11524173
If mentioning something once or twice a month constitutes "forcing," I don't think an unforced meme has ever existed.

>>11524174
People have been talking shit about Baldr Sky for a while now. You know, just like you would expect for everything that more then 10 people have read.

>>11524187
>I don't think an unforced meme has ever existed.

Now you're getting it.

>>11524192
That's it, Anon, get your foot in the door.

>>11524131
I don't know what to say.

I'll just assume it's the regular fans throwing money at him and no-one who's into VNs.

>>11524173
If your case is that Suigin liking something proves that he "forced" it, then you have no case, sorry.

I gave you a link that proves that people adopted it in a natural way almost immediately upon coining. I've also been there at the time and know that I personally did. I struggle to see what point could you possibly think you have.

>>11524159
>Well there's nothing wrong with a thread not getting 50+ replies, which I think is something people (especially the staff) have lost sight of. So what if something isn't a General that gets 300 replies in two hours? It's just a message board, if only 3 people have something to say about Sakura Wars then it's not a big deal.
I'm talking about receiving no on-topic replies at all. Just a few random comments from people who haven't played what you're trying to discuss.

>>11524159
>3 hours now. It is (or at least was) /jp/-only. Getting a thread deleted resets the limit, so it only affects on-topic posters.
The hell? Why would they do something like that?

>>11524242
There are other boards that are more focused on discussion.

We're waiting for you

>>11524246
They were hoping that it would discourage people from manual spam by making it marginally more difficult.

>>11524246
Coupled with the low number of available non-banned proxies, it pretty much killed mass spam.

>>11524256
>>11524257
The old limit was something like 10 minutes. So if you really want to spam (as in, multiple threads per minute) this new limit makes no difference. If you just want to post a shitty thread, wait for it to get deleted, then make a new one, you still can. Not sure if this was an oversight on Team 4chan's part.

Not to mention most shitposters have dynamic IP addresses, so again, this makes no difference, whether it's 10 minutes or 3 hours, and whether they get muted or can post again straight away.

I want to start a big translation sca.. ... I mean scene.
EOPs, please donate money to the projects. Thanks.

>>11524263
I'm pretty sure the old limit was thirty seconds.

Also, my ISP won't give me a new IP address unless I actually reset my router, and that's three minutes where I can't use the internet. That would be a pain in the ass to do over and over. Maybe other people have it different.