/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

Hey /jp/, when was the last time you finished a VN and went, "Wow, what an amazing display of storytelling." or felt depressed that won't ever experience it for the first time again?

Honestly, the only time this ever happened to me was at the end of my first two VNs (Saya and YMK) and I'm 90% positive that was only because it was my first introduction to the media and it was light years ahead anime which I normally entertained myself with. Ever since then pretty much every VN I read left me feeling indifferent or angry that I wasted so much of my time on something so bad.

Is it just me or are VNs in general just third rate excuses for books written by pseudo-intellectuals that couldn't become real writers? No offense, in fact I would actually love to read one that leaves feeling like the time I put into was more than worth it.

[Anonymous No.]

People are just going to apply your criticism to Saya no Uta.

I agree though, I certainly felt that way about SnU. Trouble is, it's a tricky balance. If I wanted a great piece of storytelling, I'd be reading books instead of playing Japanese porn games.

[Anonymous No.]

That's what happens when you're forced to eat the scraps that fall off the table. It's just that sometimes someone happens to knock something good off.

Enjoy, English only peasants.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9958384
But the deep or interesting VNs are the only ones that get translated.
Most Westerners don't realize that a run-of-the-mill visual novel is basically cute porn. They're too used to Fate/Stay Night and Tsukihime.

[Anonymous No.]

The problem with most VNs is the pacing. They're unbearably slow and take too long with slice-of-life crap to get to the plot.

This seems to be the only thing that separates published writers from VN writing, as far as I can tell. Even utter dreck like the Dresden Files manages to advance the plot at a speedy pace instead of spending absurd amounts of time on what the characters are eating for dinner.

I have yet to read a text novel that got me as engrossed into the story as some VNs, though.

[Anonymous No.]

its all because you were too weak to find happiness

[Anonymous No.]

>>9958326
That exact feeling is why I learned japanese.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9958384

Oh? Enlighten us oh great master of the superior language. What great gems are we lowly mortals missing out on?

[Anonymous No.]

>>9958419
Well to be fair it's obviously true that you're not getting the entirety of the medium if you're only reading what has been deemed by other English speakers to be "good".

[Anonymous No.]

>>9958409
>They're unbearably slow and take too long with slice-of-life crap to get to the plot.

This. The parts about the protagonists' daily life or whatever are just padding. They don't establish the characters or anything, they're just events of no interest or consequence. I hate to use it as an example, but Katawa Shoujo was especially bad for this.

The best stories are ones that work everything together to form a complete story. Every line should matter. That doesn't mean the story has to move super fast or every piece of dialogue has to be exposition, but there's no point to a "getting dressed and going to school" scene if it's just for the sake of transporting the character to the next scene.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9958431

That's not the question. Of course it's obvious we're missing out. The question is, are we really missing out on anything really good?

>>9958414

You'd think it'd make you NOT want to learn Japanese since you have an idea of what's in store for you.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9958436
>>9958409
>>9958335
>>9958326

I like it and I'm sure others do too. If you want action go watch a michael bay film nerds.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9958462
...

think of it like a venn diagram you're only getting the good english ones. And those are always late because tranlsators can't keep up. So if you know the language you don't need to wait to read a title you're interested in at least.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9958462
>>9958478
Think of it like novels or films. There have been thousands of good books and movies, but only the classics get remembered. Sometimes you watch a "popcorn movie" and it's really entertaining, but it's certainly not going to be remembered in ten years' time. Or maybe you read an old book and think, "Wow, how come this never became a classic?"
Those are what you are missing out on.

[Anonymous No.]

Have JAST USA released SnU yet? The translation is _done_. It's taken, what, three years?

[Anonymous No.]

>>9958384
>Enjoy, English only peasants.
I read Chinese translations too so I’m not an English *only* peasant but I’m still quite a peasant.
I’ll get around to Nihongoing it up one day.

[Anonymous No.]

OP, there is no point to criticizing the medium as a whole. Yes, some VN's suck ass, but it is no different in terms of quality over crap with movies, music,television (Animation included) and games.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9958504

So in actuality, nothing really worthwhile or worth the effort. As you've said there are thousands of titles and searching through these to eventually find a gem seems like a burden more than anything because most of the titles you're playing aren't worthwhile.

I'm assuming the classics are what are being translated in the case of VNs which are deemed worth the effort to translate (obviously not a rule or principle, but the real classics make it in). If you can't get much pleasure out of the ones the community deems the best of the best, how can you enjoy lesser titles?

[Anonymous No.]

>>9958396
>But the deep or interesting VNs are the only ones that get translated.
Which is why Muramasa has been translated, while My Girlfriend is the President remains Japan only.

>>9958462
How the hell am I supposed to know what you find good? Unless you dislike visual novels, I can pretty much guarantee that you're missing out on something you'd enjoy.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9958615
>Which is why Muramasa has been translated
Translating Muramasa to English would be a bit tough.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9958615

>How the hell am I supposed to know what you find good?

I'm asking you what YOU find good.

[Anonymous No.]

I haven't played every translated visual novel. Until I have, I'm happy, even if I end up playing VNs that aren't to my tastes.

The reason I dropped watching anime and reading manga is because there's way too much media available, and it hurts my brain.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9958615
It has been translated.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9958608
> I read Chinese translations
Knowing all kanji for free and still too lazy to learn Japanese? That a waste of human. Please, rot in hell.

[Anonymous No.]

Ironically I found Saya no Uta to be mediocre, purely because it was too short to make an impact on me.

I've read a lot of the major English-translated VNs so far and I've appreciated the storytelling in most of them, a notable exception being Muv-Luv Alternative because I hated the lengthy scenes with the Kimi ga Nozomu Eien cast. I don't read nukige though so that probably skews things a bit.

From memory, the last VN I read and enjoyed the storytelling was Little Busters. I've still yet to read Tomoyo After.

[Anonymous No.]

Since this is a shit thread,
someone tell me why this game is so bad.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9958751
I’m sorry. Kanji aren’t difficult to begin with compared to grammar.
And I kanji dense texts considerably easier to read than texts written without much kanji.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9958326
I honestly haven't felt that way since FS/N 4 years ago.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9958326
Hey OP. Here is a wise tip. VN stories are exactly like kiosk books stories. There is always sort of campy feel to them and much reconstruction. I hope you could understand.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9958792
I agree. I have a feeling he doesn't really know Japanese.

[Anonymous No.]

Ever since Saya no Uta I have always wanted to hold a loli in the bathtub and have her soft butt pressed against me.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9958810

>a loli

I have some news for you ...

[Anonymous No.]

>>9958815
She's a loli in my heart.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9958819
>>9958815

Well technically she is a loli, just not a human one

[Anonymous No.]

Umineko

[Anonymous No.]

>>9958874
>babby's first VN of the worst kind
etc

[Anonymous No.]

"Real" writing always tries its best to make the reader as angry and sad as possible. Saya no Uta also gave me those feelings. I don't want things like that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9958909
What kind of normal has feelings? I grew out of those in high school.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9958914
Probably because you got beaten up so many times pussy.

[Anonymous No.]

Ever17's reveal was rather impressive. I think the mark that something truly defines a medium is that you can't move it to another medium and keep the same effect. Ever17's protagonist misdirection could not have been achieved in any medium other than a visual novel and it gets a lot of points for that.

Not that Ever17 didn't have its weak points.

[Anonymous No.]

Should I play Steins;Gate or not?

[Anonymous No.]

>>9958918
wow that was really mean

[Anonymous No.]

>>9958928
yes but always remember... THE CAKE IS A LIE!!! xD[/SPOILER]

[Anonymous No.]

Saya no Uta is an anomaly among VNs, in that it could be published as an actual novel with very little (if any) tweaking and be received extremely well.

Most VNs are about wich waifu wud u fug though, so try to find and read the ones that aren't like that if you're into stuff like SnU.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9958897
My tastes > your tastes

[Anonymous No.]

>>9958326
Just wondering, which VNs did you find unbearably bad? I'd like to see if you actually stumbled upon some terrible crap or if it's something else. I started with the same titles, loved them, and I've found several reads just as enjoyable later.

[Anonymous No.]

>YMK

I seriously hope you played the best route.

[Anonymous No.]

For me, Umineko was the peak. Alternative gave me a rush too, mainly thanks to the military/mecha.
But since then I haven't really felt much from VNs.

[Anonymous No.]

Cross Channel was pretty remarkable for having such a funny, weird, interesting and maybe even clever narration (by the protagonist) that it failed to bore me even when nothing relevant was happening. A very pleasant read. A less skilled author would've made it a tedious chore to read through all the time looping and stuff (if you accidentally spoiled yourself like I often do, this is revealed like 2 hours into the game so don't worry).

[Anonymous No.]

>Saya no Uta
It was rip-off from tezuka phoenix
And it was highly overrated in the western becasue 99% of gaijin newfag dones't read Tezuka's works

in Japan, hardly anyone care about Saya no Uta beside niche Nitro+ fantard.

There is a story in Phonex about the man has an accident, and he start to see all living thing as weriod form, but accident there was only one who look like a girl, and he fall in love with her, but she is actually a fucking ugly robot

Is this kind of story seting common? Actually no. try name one I bet you can't.

And there is even another story about a creppy slime like cuture in love with a human in Phonex.

even the mc of Saya no Uta metion the manga in the VN

It's fucking rip off and what Urobuchi does is add lovecraft and sex to attract ADHD to think their porn game is deep and edge.

my engrish is not good, but this is fact

[Anonymous No.]

>>9959013
Just because the it was a homage doesn't mean that it was bad. The writing was good and it was an interesting take on some of the same themes.

Pull the stick out of your ass.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9959013
>>9959028
Wow, it all makes sense now. He also stole the idea for Madoka from Johann Wolfgang von Goethe.

What a hack. It's no wonder everything he's done on his own has been awful, including his anime airing this season, psycho-ass.

[Anonymous No.]

You thought you could forget, didn't you?

[Anonymous No.]

>>9958945

Nukige aside, the VNs I enjoyed the least were muv luv, cross channel, and forest. I dropped forest a few hours in which was a first for me since I've finished everything I've started before that. It was probably a hype thing and they didn't deliver what was expected.

>>9958958

I preferred Mizuki's route. Aeka's felt really melodramatic and contrived like their sole purpose was just to evoke anger. Aeka herself felt more like a plot device than an actual character. Mizuki's route had much better characterization, development, and a more realistic relationship between her and MC.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9959049
No, I'll never forget. I've actually contemplated hunting down the people who made this and murdering them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9959043
Yeah I hear he also ripped of Equilibrium with Jouka no Monshou. How shameless.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9959062

>How shameless.

Who are you? Yui?

[Anonymous No.]

>are VNs in general just third rate excuses for books
No, it's a completely different medium, just like how film and comics are different from books.
>written by pseudo-intellectuals
What? The vast majority of eroge writers make no pretense about being "deep."
>that couldn't become real writers
Once again, are people who write for other mediums people who "couldn't become real writers"?

>>9958409
Good fiction is rarely plot-driven, actually. Sorry you like pulp.

>>9958504
No, that's definitely not a suitable analogy. It's not like all "classic" eroge get translated or like every translated eroge is a classic.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9959511

>The vast majority of eroge writers make no pretense about being "deep."

We're not talking about nukige here

>Good fiction is rarely plot-driven, actually.

...

[Anonymous No.]

>>9959511
>Good fiction is rarely plot-driven
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHA

[Anonymous No.]

>>9958326
>YMK
>Wow, what an amazing display of storytelling

ahahahhaa

>I preferred Mizuki's route

AHAHAHHAHA

[Anonymous No.]

>>9961257
Go read Harry Potter, faggot.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9961257
But he's right. Plot can make stories good, but characters are what makes them great.

As a general rule, people will only care about what is happening if they also care, at least a little bit, about who it's happening to. There could be fights and explosions and plot twists all the damn time, but if you don't know or care about who any of the characters are, then it's going to be boring. On the other hand, something as simple as a conversation can be really exciting if you're actually invested in who's talking and what their motivation is.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9959511
>Good fiction is rarely plot-driven, actually. Sorry you like pulp.
Thanks for being pointlessly condescending. Sorry you like cliche characters having mundane conversations and not doing anything interesting, I guess.

>>9961515
This is true, but as another anon said above:
>The parts about the protagonists' daily life or whatever are just padding. They don't establish the characters or anything, they're just events of no interest or consequence.

"Characters make it great" is true, but cliche characters don't.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9961286

A nerd like you can't appreciate the masterpiece of writing that is Mizuki's route.

[Anonymous No.]

Ever17 and Umineko
Saya was OK,
Sharin no Kuni is shit

[Anonymous No.]

>>9962245

YMK is a flat story with flat characters, flat plot, flat music, and flat everything.

It is simplistic. You can enjoy it, but you cannot say it is high quality.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9962691

[Anonymous No.]

>>9962734
>>9962691
Holy shit owned. gg no re

[Anonymous No.]

>>9962648

>Ever17

The high point in that game was when they revealed the date. It had the shittiest pacing with hours upon hours of chicken sandwiches and the fact that it was aliens at the end was a real downer.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9962648

>Ever17

The high point in that game was when they revealed the date. It had the shittiest pacing with hours upon hours of chicken sandwiches and the fact that it was aliens at the end was a real downer. Not to mention the events at the end felt really forced and contrived.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9962691
>It is simplistic. You can enjoy it, but you cannot say it is high quality.
Why not? It's a work of entertainment. If he enjoys it, it's accomplishing what it's supposed to accomplish.

Beyond that, complexity and quality are unrelated scales.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9962963

He's just being dark and edgy like those faggots at /a/. "Just because it's entertaining doesn't mean it's good xD"