/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

Why couldn't japanese be romanized properly? Why do we have to suffer from the stupidity of the american mind?

If you are tired of this bullshit, here are instructions to romanize japanese properly:
j, not y
š, not sh
tš, not ch
dž, not j

Also, the u in japanese is a bit strange. It is like a mix of u and y, so you could change it to ú or ù or y or ý.

[Anonymous No.]

romanize THIS
*grabs cock*

[Anonymous No.]

>>9778060
are you czech or what

[Anonymous No.]

>>9778070
I am from a country where they spell things correctly, how they are supposed to be spelled.

Even though the few letters look like they are straight from russian or czech, they are the proper corresponding letters for the fonems they present.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9778060
>tš
>not č

[Anonymous No.]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hepburn_romanization
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Phonetic_Alphabet

Fact is, people don't like reading/typing Tōhō or [to:ho:]

[Anonymous No.]

Phonetic alphabets suck.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9778105
This has always bugged me.

If 東方 is Tōhō/Touhou, why is 東京 Tokyo instead of Tōkyo/Toukyo? As far as I know that's how it's pronounced.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9778094
>č
That doesnä't mean even anything. Ch is tš, unless you speak some non-language.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9778119
For pretty much the same reason. Under the Hepburn system, it is Tōkyō. But English speakers pronounce it as the long-O anyway, and the macron is a bitch to type, so most words like this end up just using "o".

I personally think "Touhou" should have always been "Toho", because that's how Toho Co. and similar groups spell their name, and that's how ZUN spells it. But I guess some people need a distinction or we'd have people pronouncing it like "top hop" without the "p"s.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9778148
"t" = tongue against teeth, usually more plosive.
"ch" = tongue slightly under teeth, you can draw it out.

I can say "ch" without ever saying "t".

[Anonymous No.]

>>9778165
No, you can't, not in the English pronunciation of the word. the phoneme represented by 'ch' in english orthography is t-sh.

http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~krussll/138/sec1/cons.htm#ch

[Anonymous No.]

>>9778060
>š, not sh

These sounds are the same in any English context. It's the voiceless palato-alveolar fricative. Also typing macrons sucks, a lot.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9778156
> But I guess some people need a distinction or we'd have people pronouncing it like "top hop" without the "p"s.

That's what I do. Please don't bully.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9778223
Of course they are the same. You would obviously get new keyboards in Japan to use this better system.

[Anonymous No.]

Romaji is really fucking confusing.

I already know English and the pronunciations are hardwired into my head. It's easier to switch to Japanese pronunciations when I just learn them by associating the sounds with the actual characters of the language instead of attempting to read the romanized version of it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9778240
No you wouldn't.

[Anonymous No.]

>The distribution of the Latin script. The dark green areas shows the countries where the Latin script is the sole main script. Light green shows countries where Latin co-exists with other scripts

Please stop trying to kill the cultural diversity of the world.

Languages that do not use the Latin script are becoming increasingly rare and they must be protected. Diversity is what makes life interesting, I do not want the entire planet to use the Latin script because then we would be robbing foreign languages of their unique qualities and it would make earth an overall less interesting place.

Stop being lazy. Just learn the language, don't try to homogenize everything to make it easier.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9778358
I'm the opposite. Fuck languages that don't use the Latin script. Easy as shit to write, we just need to shave off a few letters and dumb pronunciations ("ghoti" etc.).

"x" and "c" can fuck off, for a start.

[Anonymous No.]

Think about it: If Rome really did conquer all the way to Japan, our PVC figures might be made out of marble!

[Anonymous No.]

Am i the only one who thinks romaji is really intuitive? The only thing that confused me at first is "ou", but then you have "ō" which sounds easy again

[Anonymous No.]

yea, no, OP. English is popular due to the US so yes of course romaji (which is shit anyway, only useful when transcribing moonrunes to layman englishspeakers) will be formed with American patterns. And as stated several times in his thread already, why write that odd character shit when it can easily be typed as "sh" or "ch" or what have you. Just accept it and move on, foreigner. If your country was responsible for English's popularity then we'd be complaining about the vice versa.

[Anonymous No.]

Why not just write everything in the International Phonetic Alphabet?
waɪ nɑt dʒʌst ɹaɪt ˈɛvɹiˌθɪŋ ɪn ði ˌɪntəˈnæʃnəl fəˈnɛtɪk ˈæl.fəˌbɛt ?

See, it's not that bad!

[Anonymous No.]

>>9781150
>waɪ nɑt dʒʌst ɹaɪt ˈɛvɹiˌθɪŋ ɪn ði ˌɪntəˈnæʃnəl fəˈnɛtɪk ˈæl.fəˌbɛt ?
Fuck you and fuck Noam Chomsky, that looks terrible.

[Unnamed Book-Reading Youkai !denX47.muQ!!XUU92Uht5OG No.]

>>9781150
I'm silently reading this to myself and it sounds very stilted and possibly canadian
for example
> fəˈnɛtɪk
I actually fully enunciate with it and say fəʊnɛtɪk

[Anonymous No.]

bring back the Sḵwx̱wú7mesh snichim

[Mark Twain No.]

For example, in Year 1 that useless letter "c" would be dropped to be replased either by "k" or "s", and likewise "x" would no longer be part of the alphabet. The only kase in which "c" would be retained would be the "ch" formation, which will be dealt with later. Year 2 might reform "w" spelling, so that "which" and "one" would take the same konsonant, wile Year 3 might well abolish "y" replasing it with "i" and iear 4 might fiks the "g/j" anomali wonse and for all.

Generally, then, the improvement would kontinue iear bai iear with iear 5 doing awai with useless double konsonants, and iears 6-12 or so modifaiing vowlz and the rimeiniing voist and unvoist konsonants. Bai iear 15 or sou, it wud fainali bi posibl tu meik ius ov thi ridandant letez "c", "y" and "x"— bai now jast a memori in the maindz ov ould doderez —tu riplais "ch", "sh", and "th" rispektivili.

Fainali, xen, aafte sam 20 iers ov orxogrefkl riform, wi wud hev a lojikl, kohirnt speling in ius xrewawt xe Ingliy-spiking werld.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9778390
I agree.

For example, in Year 1 that useless letter "c" would be dropped to be replased either by "k" or "s", and likewise "x" would no longer be part of the alphabet. The only kase in which "c" would be retained would be the "ch" formation, which will be dealt with later. Year 2 might reform "w" spelling, so that "which" and "one" would take the same konsonant, wile Year 3 might well abolish "y" replasing it with "i" and Iear 4 might fiks the "g/j" anomali wonse and for all.
Jenerally, then, the improvement would kontinue iear bai iear with Iear 5 doing awai with useless double konsonants, and Iears 6-12 or so modifaiing vowlz and the rimeining voist and unvoist konsonants. Bai Iear 15 or sou, it wud fainali bi posibl tu meik ius ov thi ridandant letez "c", "y" and "x" -- bai now jast a memori in the maindz ov ould doderez -- tu riplais "ch", "sh", and "th" rispektivli.
Fainali, xen, aafte sam 20 iers ov orxogrefkl riform, wi wud hev a lojikl, kohirnt speling in ius xrewawt xe Ingliy-spiking werld.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9781246
>>9781279
SAMEFAG

[Anonymous No.]

>>9778358

But anon... the latin alphabet is clearly superior to any other alphabet in the world. Only 24 easy to write and memorize letters with which we can represent everything in the world.

Not to mention that any alphabet is superior to any silabic, simbolic or ideographic system.

[Anonymous No.]

>romanizing japanese

Or you could just stop being a pleb and use proper かな.

[Anonymous No.]

/jp/ - Linguistics

[Anonymous No.]

>>9781842
translate it weebs

[Anonymous No.]

>>9781150

But the way I speak doesn't sound anything like the way that sentence is written. Using IPA doesn't really work among different accents.

[Anonymous No.]

☆はい、このスレは終了しました☆

[Anonymous No.]

>>9781872
ウラファゲット

[Anonymous No.]

>>9781872

>Hai, kono sureha shuuryoo shimashita

In the future

[OP No.]

>>9781842
It is not about that. I can read it somewhat properly, but it is not about that. My problem comes in situations when japanese place/person names are "translated" to the other world, it always uses the idiotic american system based on the retarded american way. I am in hope that the names could be done properly.
Tokyo, or Tookyoo would be Tokjo or Tokio. In some languages it was done properly but nowadays every country uses the retarded american way. Every japanese language education uses the same fucking american way.

Also fucking pists me of that nearly all romanizations of every non-latin script using language has y as i/j. Y is a fucking vowel, not a consonant. Fucking ü, not i/j.

[Anonymous No.]

Japanese romanization works PERFECTLY in my language. The pronunciation matches 99% of the times perfectly. I'd take the way it is now, OP.

[Youmu Konpaku !MyonHUTINA No.]

>>9778156
>we'd have people pronouncing it like "top hop" without the "p"s.
"Taa haa"? What English-speaking person would look at Toho and think "Tah hah"?

[Anonymous No.]

>>9782605
I don't give a fuck how it's romanized because I don't deal with romaji-only peasants and I can understand Japanese.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9778390
Not that easy, I'm afraid. For instance, latin doesn't have a character for the "sh" and "ch" sounds, leaving you with two options
1. use š
2. use sh

1. is hard to write on a modern keyboard
2. doesn't work, since some languages (like, anything slavic) have words where a hard s sound is followed by a hard h sound.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9778060
Why go with such a complicated system, when you only need to translate hiragana?
a i u e o
ka ki ku ke ko
sa si su se so
ta ti tu te to
na ni nu ne no
ha hi hu he ho
ma mi mu me mo
ya yu yo
ra ri ru re ro
wa wi we wo

and so on. Drop the vowel when combined with y-. n at the end of a word or before a consonant is nn. So our favourite touhous' names would be
Reimu
Marisa
Tiruno
Syameimaru

Sure it's not phonetic, but neither is English and I don't see that being a problem. Of course, you'd still protest that this doesn't provide a true isomorphism to all possible variations of having one sound described with two kana, say ティ. So we'll just capitalise every first letter of every kana that isn't modifying the one before it, coming up with
ReIMu
MaRiSa
TiRuNo
SiyaMeIMaRu

What does /jp/ think about this?

[Anonymous No.]

thumbs up if you want kana captcha for /jp/

[Anonymous No.]

>>9782605
The Japanese (Nihon-siki) way of romanization is designed so that there's a 1:1 correspondence of one kana to a unique 2-letter combination. It looks even weirder than Hepburn romanization.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9782901
I think it looks awful. Just romanize based on a i u e o. Obviously tu should be tsu. As for the digraphs, do them however the fuck you want. Ja, jya, nobody cares.

[Anonymous No.]

It doesn't really matter which system you use, what matters is to have a consistent system, and hepburn is a lot more consistent than most european writing systems.

Also a writing system needs to consider the different keyboards that already exist in the world. So stuff like this "š" aren't really practical. You aren't really suggesting to change billions of keyboards or to use complicated combinations of keys, right?

My only qualms with hepburn is the unresolved problem with "ou" which creates a lot of confusion. Especially with cases such as Inoue 井上

[Anonymous No.]

>>9782909

[Anonymous No.]

wch tah hah wld u fq

[Anonymous No.]

>>9782901
Best system, if you know the kana, of course. That's how you write them on a keyboard (most of the time).

[Anonymous No.]

>>9782945
Me too. Why doesn't moot implement it? It's already done: http://doushio.com/captcha

[Anonymous No.]

>>9783937
He said it time and again; no kana capture because he would have to implement it for the whole site, and if you ask again he will give the same excuse.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9782909
>>9783937
If the captcha is in kana, then do you enter the captcha with latin letters or with kana?

[Anonymous No.]

Because there are like 50 fucking kanji that are pronounced the exact same way and only look different, mean totally different things and you can only tell through context. You also will lose any phonetic flexibility in the language provided by ーand っ/ッ that and 3000 kanji isn't that hard to learn you lazy fuck.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9784165
Read the thread, you lazy fuck >>9782605

Also, if the thing you claim would be correct, then japanese as a language would be unspeakable, in fact 100%. Really, not even kidding. Since japanese is not unspeakable, you could actually write it completely with latin letters.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9784221

You could, but there are reasons why you are told to transition as quickly from romaji to kana/kanji it is almost unreadable. I can't even fucking read romaji comments on nico.com because the english site only supports the latin alphabet.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9780886
new saber figure: only $850

[Anonymous No.]

>>9784067
you describe the symbol with kanji while standing upside down with one eye closed and one hand in your pants.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9783937
>http://doushio.com/captcha
Why heisig? I don't use it.

[Anonymous No.]

but Japanese doesn't have some of the sounds that English does.
like "di"
is it written ぢ, じ, or ディ?

[Anonymous No.]

>Putting squiggly shit above your letters

No, I'm not dealing with that kind or rubbish. There are 26 characters on my keyboard, I'm not memorizing alt codes for any others. Leave the japanese in japanese.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9784368
Fuck you. Still better than english, that is said completely differently than it is spelled.

Příliš žluťoučký kůň úpěl ďábelské ódy

[Anonymous No.]

>>9784344

ディ is Di but only used for katakana spellings of names. Also the whole ra/ru/re/ri/ro problem that people don't understand that ら is not the same sound as Ra.

Another reason why romaji is terrible.

[Anonymous No.]

ここは日本だ！英語なんて必要ない！
我々は日本語だけで生きて行く！

[Anonymous No.]

>>9784469

[Anonymous No.]

>>9784467
It actually is the same as ra.

Or rather ra is correct pronunciation (among la and rda) of ら

[Anonymous No.]

>>9784484

if you pronounce ら just like rah when speaking japanese you're always going to talk like a fucking foreigner and it will be obvious the moment you speak if you can't pronounce the sounds/words correctly.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9784484
>rda

typo? Anyway it's definitely not r as in car or l as in lake, which are the two most common ways those are pronounced in american english.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9784484
You nerd can't even say ら, good luck with りゃ、りゅ、and りょ。

[Anonymous No.]

macron is stupid and shitty.

[Anonymous No.]

Even the vowels are much different than how we romanise them.
They are definitely not exactly the same and just by saying
あ・い・う・え・お
as
A I U E O
we already show our foreignness

[Anonymous No.]

>>9784497

I thought らりるれろ were supposed to start with a some what L sound.

Like Li Le Lu Le Lo in metal gear solid.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9784542
It's a flap, closer to the way we pronounce the ts in "butter", though not quite the same. It's not either sound.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9784542

Pay attention to where your tongue is, and say Rah, then say Lah. your tongue should be half way between that on the roof of your mouth. Like rolling an R but you only tap. That's why it's called a tap sound. That's the sound of ら

[Anonymous No.]

>>9784519
Nope, the vowels are exactly the same except for うwhich is a mix of u and y/ü

[Anonymous No.]

Oh and I also forgot how retardetly americans spell r. Even more idioticly than germans and french do it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9786614
French is perfectly logical and has very few exceptions

[Anonymous No.]

>>9786618
>very few exceptions
Permets-moi de désapprouver ce que tu viens de dire. Je ne citerai pour exemple que la simple voyelle 'e' qui change de ton au gré du vent.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9778060
y -> j
sh -> ś
ch -> ć
j -> dź
u -> ó

rolland pstrąg

[Anonymous No.]

>>9789087
>u -> ó
What is this retardation?

[Anonymous No.]

fuck romanization

[Anonymous No.]

>>9791824

[Anonymous No.]

>>9791828
oh cmon, it's like 50 little symbols and you can't learn them? you must be fucking retarded.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9791846
Who says that I don't know those 50 symbols?? I am still talking about when "translating" japanese names and place names.

[Anonymous No.]

which system uses 'd' instead of 'z'? that one is gay and I hate it.