/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

Who else has shifted from liking cute moe things to liking dark and edgy things?

[Anonymous No.]

I like both.

[Anonymous No.]

I shifted the opposite direction.

[Anonymous No.]

I like both.

[Anonymous No.]

I only like mature, grown-up things for mature grown-ups such as myself. Both "moe" and "grimdark" are for children (I count teenagers as children, because they are).

[Anonymous No.]

Liking moe is dark and edgy.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728540

ageists are the dumbest on the planet tbh

i know you're being ironic but there's people who really think this way

[Anonymous No.]

Other way around for me. Although I still like those heroic cool things too. Something that's cute and cool is the best to me.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728545
I'm being facetious, but I do kind of think this way. I like children's media and adults' media, but I think when either targets the "moe" niche or the "grimdark" niche, it's simply not for me. I have nothing against something being cute or dark, but when it turns into, "ONII-CHAN! I HAVE TOAST IN MY MOUTH, UGUU! Ditzy-moe~! ^_~" or, "I am dark and brooding *kills everyone violently*", it's not for me.

[Anonymous No.]

I like both

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728571
Do you have to be so obnoxious about it?

[Anonymous No.]

I've always liked dark and edgy things. These days I like a bit of cute mixed in with my dark and edgy though.

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728606
What's wrong with her face?

[Anonymous No.]

Berserk post Golden Age for both

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728526
I like the slut's expression.

[Anonymous No.]

I like both.

[Anonymous No.]

I wish everyone who says the phrase 'dark and edgy' would die already!

[Anonymous No.]

I like both XD

[Anonymous No.]

I went from liking cute and edgy to dark and moe.

[White Ren !YLuFFdRcFQ No.]

>>9728657
Dark and moe you say?

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728648
>>>/gaia/

[Anonymous No.]

I never liked moe, do you think I'm some kind of subhuman pleb?

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728679
Your post sure makes it seem that way.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728679
Yes, I do think that.

[Anonymous No.]

milky holmes is terrible

flat out terrible.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728697
Milky Holmes is hilarious!

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728703
maybe if you're half retarded, sure.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728704
you're the other half

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728697

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728710
milky holmes isn't unique

[Anonymous No.]

I don't understand how some people can constantly be so negative.

[Anonymous No.]

I'm pretty sure edgy doesn't mean what you think it means.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728670
Some people don't know how to positively deal with the hand they are dealt. Poor coping pretty much.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728571
Why are you here?

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728718
Clinical depression helps.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728713

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728721
meant to reply to >>9728718

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728724
what's the point you're trying to make here?

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728571
Shit, nigga. If I didn't know better I would say you were trolling.

Take your awful opinions to people who give a shit.

>>>/a/

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728728
Anta baka ?

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728732
a show with silly expressions for comedy isn't unique

that shit is meme tier

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728734
Why the need to be unique?

It's been a while since I've seen such a crazy show. It was enjoyable, but I understand why some people don't like it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728734

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728740
>Why the need to be unique?
well personally, i get sick of watching the same kinds of things over and over again.

[Anonymous No.]

When I turned 8

[Anonymous No.]

I like things that are dark or sad. And I don't understand why people actually believe that anything with death or tragedy can all be lumped under "CRAAAAWLING IN MY SKIIIIN".

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728751
Maybe otaku culture isn't for you. All media is only the consequence of the media before it. All groundbreaking work will eventually be made the standard. I personally like the feeling of familiarity in conjunction with new presentation or execution.

This aside, there hasn't been a show like Milky Holmes in at least a few years. I know the mid-2000's had a few, but even then MH pushes it further. Relative to the shows that have been coming out MH IS unique.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728751
Just stick to the actually good anime then. You will always find someone who likes something you don't like, especially in a media where most are just following patterns set by more capable people.

[Anonymous No.]

i like both but on a typical day its gotta be moe

[Anonymous No.]

I like both, depending on my mood.
I don't think it's that uncommon, the otaku world is mostly composed of bipolar fucks after all. I think that even denpa songs are made on top of this assumption.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oL3Ex8sLd-k
vs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKFiGnPNwas

[Anonymous No.]

When I reached puberty.

I had the fortune of maturing out of it, now the cute and GAR are my things.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728761
>All media is only the consequence of the media before it. All groundbreaking work will eventually be made the standard.

i realize this, i didn't mean that i expect every show that comes out to be a one-of-a-kind special case.

>Relative to the shows that have been coming out MH IS unique.
i don't find it to be unique other than the fast-paced approach the creators took with the show. although everyone has a different sense of humor, so i guess earlier i was a bit harsh saying that you have to be retarded to like it. but that stems from my perspective seeing it as just another "moe" show created for the sole purpose of merchandising with nothing else to offer other than what i see as lame jokes. to each their own though

>>9728772
>Just stick to the actually good anime then.
i try to give most shows that come out a decent chance before i judge them, so i feel like i'm wading through a septic tank to find golden nuggets.

[Anonymous No.]

As expected from /jp/!

[Anonymous No.]

I like dark and edgy things since I'm a child.

[Anonymous No.]

What shows have both?

[Anonymous No.]

I like things targeted at children because I'm a child.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728793
Madoka

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728804
what good shows have both?

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728785
>just another "moe" show created for the sole purpose of merchandising
That's exactly what it is, but at least they had fun making it and don't pretend otherwise. It's simple entertainment. Don't let labels like "moe" tint your appreciation of a show. Even if we were to use that as a genre, it is plenty varied therein.

I will say, though, that I was a little disappointed that they had a cool concept and completely disregarded it for nonsensical comedy. I guess it fulfills their purposes better.

>>9728793
Princess Tutu

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728802
I like children's shows because I'm an adult.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728806
Madoka

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728807
>I will say, though, that I was a little disappointed that they had a cool concept and completely disregarded it for nonsensical comedy.

MH Alternative One will get subbed eventually.

[Anonymous No.]

I made that change myself back during puberty too, OP. Hope you don't get much acne.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728785
Watching everything randomly is a sure way to waste time. You have to discriminate. Not judging something because you might be wrong isn't relevant when you have probability on your side.

I also don't think anime is ever going to save itself from itself. You might be better off with old shows.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728816
You already tried to make that joke.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728820
You don't make seen.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728815
I didn't know that existed until now.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728822
Don't worry, when you get older you'll realize there are more people in the world than at your middleschool.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728825
What?

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728820
Anime needs no saving. I don't know why people think something is "dying". They see something they don't like and all of a sudden the entirety of the medium is in danger.

Did people feel this way with the post-apocalyptic SF shows or the mecha boom? How about the explosion of never-ending shounen battle series? Magical girls?

Why is anime dying now instead of during any of the trends that preceded it? Fuck, take your /a/-think somewhere else.

[Anonymous No.]

I really do like both, though I like cute things more.

[Anonymous No.]

I used to be all edgy and post clock crew garbage on Newgrounds when I was 12

the real world took that out of me

I like dark moe because it means I get to save the little girls from their misery

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728838
I don't watch anime that often, but even I can see that good things rarely ever happen to it. It's like Anno's position, the makers don't take enough risks. There really hasn't been an anime newer than Eva.

[Anonymous No.]

I'm not fifteen anymore.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728845
Clock Crew was edgy? I thought they were just fruits with clocks on them.

[Anonymous No.]

I like when people depict cute things as grimdark or grimdark things being made cute.

[Anonymous No.]

Who is Moe?

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728857
You're Mom's secret lover.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728846
>I don't watch anime that often
Haha, oh wow. Why is a westerner who has only consumed the barest fringes of an entire medium trying to make claims as to its intrinsic nature and state?

Take your regurgitated platitudes back to /a/.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728867
Speak english, doc!

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728838
>Anime needs no saving. I don't know why people think something is "dying". They see something they don't like and all of a sudden the entirety of the medium is in danger.

the majority of anime wouldn't be quite as shitty if most shows didn't didn't jump onto trendy bandwagons. it's not necessarily dying, it's just that the medium is stuck in a rut wherein not enough of the creators are innovating often enough, and as a result varied content is a rare occurrence and the medium stagnates. however, this isn't to say that innovation is by any means easy, and besides it's hard to blame the creators for making the same things over and over when they know that they can consistently sell to an obsessive group of consumers.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728867
It's called an opinion, and you haven't given any real argument beyond assumptions and ad hominem.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728880
It's not an assumption when you outright say it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728882
You assume I'm from /a/ and I'm referring to things like moe. I'm not bothered with what the trend in anime is currently. I just really don't think that anime is going to make itself something better than what it is. I didn't even say it was dying. I meant that it won't really improve itself.

[Anonymous No.]

I just love the Milky Holmes!

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728906
I like G4!

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728876
Anime is first and foremost a medium of entertainment, thus its goal is to entertain. Why do we see trends? Because people find a particular subject matter entertaining. If you're desperate for innovation, read manga. It's cheaper to produce and thus rewards experimentation on behalf of the author.

>varied content is a rare occurrence
No it's not. Look at any season that comes out and you'll see variety in genres. Don't quote me on this, but it appears that there's MORE variation because there are more shows being produced. "Jumping onto trendy bandwagons" is what gave us Evangelion, arguably the most groundbreaking work in anime.

>>9728880
The argument is found above. The state of the anime industry is actually quite consistent. Apart from financial fluctuations, the content has been generally the same. We can track trends in every decade of anime, so why do people express such disappointment with the current?

>>9728886
>I also don't think anime is ever going to save itself from itself. You might be better off with old shows.
I think this is about as clear as you can get in saying that there's a problem with the current industry. If this isn't you, my mistake.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728876
This applies to anything, though. Look at the "classic" era of cinema. The typical film was whatever was popular at the time. Soppy romance movies, sci-fi serials, whatever.

At any point in history, most of any media was run-of-the-mill and stayed in a safe area. Occasionally something breaks the mould, and that's why we have classics.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728911
It's me. I say old shows because there's a better chance to find the rare gems when you have years of anime history rather than the next generic season with a miniscule chance that you'll get lucky. Sorry for not being clearer. There will always be anime that are good and fresh every now and then, but it's sad things couldn't be better.

Also, I find a problem with you saying that there's more variation just because of genre. Genre is just a marketing tool if it doesn't come with substance. Same story, different package.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728850
The early clock crew spammed the portal with gore

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728911
>Anime is first and foremost a medium of entertainment, thus its goal is to entertain. Why do we see trends? Because people find a particular subject matter entertaining.

this is why i pointed this out
>it's hard to blame the creators for making the same things over and over when they know that they can consistently sell to an obsessive group of consumers.

the industry is geared towards the demand for whatever trend becomes popular. so if you're going to complain about the state of anime, then you'd have to point at the consumers as well as the creators.

>>9728913
you're absolutely correct.

[Anonymous No.]

I like both a lot. In fact, as far as anime and manga goes, my tastes are almost divided entirely between the two.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728925
>a problem with you saying that there's more variation just because of genre. Genre is just a marketing tool if it doesn't come with substance. Same story, different package.
How else are we to empirically measure variation in content without individually watching each show? You've already concluded that all these shows are the same to begin with. Do you not know that the bulk of fiction is built upon "same story, different package"? The character archetypes, settings, plots, symbology--all of it is the development of works built off of one another. What does "substance" even mean? I have only ever seen it used as a buzzword employed by people without a solid argument.

[Anonymous No.]

me
wwww

i also like cute things too

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728955
Post the one where she has mouths in her hair.

[Anonymous No.]

You can't have something that isn't either one or the other.

[Anonymous No.]

True /jp/sies: love both equally
Visitors from /a/: has a marked preference for one over the other and shits all over the other one to try to justify their taste

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728951
You're too quick to assume you know what the other person is talking about. I advise you take a step back and stop replying to made up people in your mind.

I'm not saying they must be the same, just that genre doesn't necessarily mean anything. I could write a harem story and after I finish it put the characters on a Mars colony but it won't really change anything.

I consider substance something like good writing or intelligent development, something that makes the show more than average.

[Anonymous No.]

So what are some good dark and edgy anime show?

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728972
Not a lot. Try manga.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728972
Utena.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728972
This ugly yet beautiful world

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728747
lol some1 saved my pic xD

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728972
I don't even know what qualifies as dark and edgy.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728526
It is the other way around for me.
Grew up liking dragonball and then picking up deep, gory, dark and edgy cartoons like gits, akira, kenshin ova and etc.
Now I mostly shows that take it easy. Some of these "dark and edgy" try too hard to be dark and edgy. A good example of this is Guilty Crap. I dropped it as fast as I can.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728972
Perfect Blue.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728972
Kite

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728972
this
*displays genitals*

[Anonymous No.]

>>9729000
oh baby those are some mighty fine genitals you've got there
*licks genticals until saliva resreves deplete*

[Anonymous No.]

>>9729000
Are you implying that you are a black man that tried to have sex with a square hole, leaving permanent marks?

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728969
>genre doesn't necessarily mean anything
Actually it does. It implies a specific thematic or narrative expression. These things are the basis for any story and the foundation for categorizing them. You should note how academics don't categorize based on "substance" because "good writing" or "intelligent development" don't actually mean much other than "what I like". On top of this, development in the narrative sense is generally restricted to certain types of genres in which story exposition is crucial. It depends on the individual aims of the show. Do slice-of-life shows lack substance?

If you wish not to be misunderstood, make your argument more clear.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9729019
You just don't understand.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9729024
"I want more variation, but I disregard any empirical methods for measuring variation as a gimmick. Variation should be measured in subjective terms like 'substance' so that no one but me can understand what constitutes variation. There is a lack of variation."

Does that sum it up well enough? You could have just said "I LIKE SHOWS THAT I LIKE. I WISH THEY MADE MORE SHOWS I LIKE."

Guess what? That isn't variability.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9729044
Your problem is this "empirical methods" idea and the assumption that substance can't be somewhat empirical. May I suggest that you don't really understand and are instead using a misguided concept because it makes sense to you? If you can't see how some shows can be generic regardless of how many meaningless things are added to it, then we'll never understand each other.

Also, tone down your argumentative nature. I could be wrong and I understand that. It's not pleasant to talk to you.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9729066
Third party here.

May I suggest that you don't really understand and are instead using a misguided concept because it makes sense to you?

[Anonymous No.]

>>9729066
>Your problem is this "empirical methods" idea and the assumption that substance can't be somewhat empirical.
Explain. How can it be faulty to use academic categorizations to gauge variation amongst media? How can substance, a subjective measure, be empirical?

Yes, some shows can be "generic" despite having differences, but without watching each show individually, there is no way to tell. You would have to make the assumption that it's generic for your method to work, in which case, is it really a method?

>tone down your argumentative nature. I could be wrong and I understand that. It's not pleasant to talk to you.
My bad, it's fucking hot around here and I'm on edge.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9729076
It's possible, but I doubt it. Genre is often more marketing than anything. In any case, what we need to agree on is not that genre makes variation or not, but that we're not talking about the same kind of variation.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9729078
If you assume that most makers of anime are going to be sub-par for various reasons, then you can assume that it's probably going to be generic.

I'm actually not sure why we're arguing this. All I meant was that genre isn't necessarily the standard for judging differences between things. Besides, isn't genre subjective? Is there really a difference between a handgun and a phaser?

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728960

[Anonymous No.]

>>9729080
>>9729084
>Genre is often more marketing than anything.
How can you honestly say this? Marketing is done by selling images (e.g. tits, guns, etc) over content. Genre refers to content.

This is how I'm defining variation in the context of this argument. A comedy show is different in theme, structure, atmosphere, etc. from a drama. SOL is different from action. Harem is not the same as romance. You get the point. To compound this, some shows contain multiple or subgenres, which deepens the degree to which it can vary. If we were to take each show and plot them on a graph, it would display, in some part, a measure of variability amongst the shows of any given season. Think "statistics"; this is my vision of variation.

>I'm actually not sure why we're arguing this. All I meant was that genre isn't necessarily the standard for judging differences between things.
Well, the problem is that it kind of is. Without genres, how would you know what movie you were going to watch until you watched it? Genres are there to facilitate organization and save time.

>isn't genre subjective? Is there really a difference between a handgun and a phaser?
Now this is a good point. There will be differences when it comes to categorization, especially sub-genres, but there is a clear structural foundation on which to label things. How often is one going to confuse a comedy with a drama (assuming the piece doesn't contain elements of both)?

Also, a phaser shoots lasers and a handgun shoots bullets. That's a fairly important distinction.

[Anonymous No.]

I like both. It keeps it fresh.

[Anonymous No.]

These are just the usual whining from silly nostalgiafags.
10years from now, another group of people will whine about how the anime industry is dying and complain about how anime ended with Madoka.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9729116
My bad, when I thought "genre" I was thinking like my first example where I write a harem story and put them on Mars. If we're talking about comedy/war/slice of life etc, then you have a point.

But even then, you can say whether a comedy is generic within its genre. And if the majority of anime are generic in their genre and also follow trends, then someone could come to think that there's not really much variation.

I don't think that there's much difference between a handgun and a (lethal) phaser in relation to the plot. That's what I was talking about with genre being marketing, you have a generic war story but wait! It's in space, a true story for all sci-fi fans!

[Anonymous No.]

I like my things dark, because I'm HARDCORE.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9729160
That makes sense. I understand how a show can be generic despite being a different genre, but that's a problem with execution, and honestly you can say it's par for the course when it comes to anime.

For me, however, I appreciate all shows good and bad. In fact, it takes a really bad show now and then to really make the good ones shine. Good discussion.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9729182
Yeah anime and all other entertainment will probably be plagued with generic shows for a long time. There's probably no way to stop it until it costs nothing to make it. I'm just sad that more studios didn't learn from people like Anno.

[Anonymous No.]

If only ZUN!bar were here...

[Anonymous No.]

>>9729907
i am here

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728540
>I only like mature, grown-up things for mature grown-ups such as myself.
I used to think like that, and then I stopped caring.

[dont bully meormyfriends-chan !avY8p6wIiQ No.]

why are people bullying milky homes?? you shouldnt bully them unless you can give me evidence of what they have done wrong

[Anonymous No.]

>>9730352
You are the reason I hate Milky Holmes even though I never watched a single episode

[Anonymous No.]

I loved Kara no Shoujo.

[Anonymous No.]

ozoi = adorable

[Anonymous No.]

>>9728761
Care to elaborate on what makes MH unique?

I appreciate cute and moe as much as your average /jp/er, but MH is one of the worst anime I've watched in my entire life. It's not even "so bad it's good"-tier, it's just plain bad.

Truly I could only stomach watching the first 2 episodes. Maybe it gets better later. I've always been curious on why MH has such a large fanbase.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9730948
People only like it ironically. like MLP

[Anonymous No.]

>>9730948
Because it takes the retarded girls doing retarded things to an all new level.
You know your usual comedy with the boke and tsukkomi routine? MH does away with this. All of the characters are retarded except for the main villain.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9730965
Please don't group Milky Holmes with that deviant shit. What is wrong with you?

[Anonymous No.]

>>9730962
Indeed they always acted retarded and I found that really annoying. If the scriptwriters were trying to pull a boke-tsukkomi act then it's really badly done.

>>9730965
Maybe some, maybe even most, but seems to me there's a lot of people who actually like it.