/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/yourcommunity/2012/07/human-immortality-could-be-possible-by-2045-say-russian
-scientists.html

You're not gonna have the money for this if you remain a NEET. You don't wanna miss the cybernetics age, do you?

[Anonymous No.]

Thank God, why on earth would I want to live longer?

[Anonymous No.]

>>9492982
This, why would I want to watch the scots-irish rape the world even longer?

[Anonymous No.]

>>9492982

Why don't you just kill yourself if you think this way?

You're just trying to be edgy.

[Anonymous No.]

I love these future predictions because nothing becomes of them.

The best are reading the ones from the fifties because they were way off.

[Anonymous No.]

Ray Kurzweil plz go

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493014

Yeah. It will probably be more like 2015 before BCIs are a thing and no longer than that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493014
wud fuq that boy

[Anonymous No.]

>>9492999
Because I'm a pussy that's why. How am I being edgy though? I'm just waiting out my time while doing unhealthy things to shorten my life as much as possible because I'm too much of a pussy to do it the proper way.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493036

***xxLIFExxISxxAGONYxx***

DARK LIKE MY HEART

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493020

>fortran

lel

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493036
just hang yourself. it's easy, cheap, and you go unconcious in about a minute or less, NOT ten like some would tell you.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9492969

>2045

Weren't they saying we would be immortal by 2029 a few years back?

Or at least that we would be extending the average live span by more than a year each year, which is much the same thing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493051
Look at this faggot. Why are you unable to deal with the fact that miserable people exist? Are you a bully?

[Anonymous No.]

>>9492969
>You don't wanna miss the cybernetics age, do you?

There is no way in hell I'm going to replace my organic parts with an imperfect replacement under the guise of longevity. Nature has created the perfect system for us to use. We should focus our efforts into figuring out how that system works and how to exploit it, rather than creating new, clearly less complex and inferior systems.

I'll wait for the genetic manipulation age.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493079

Yeah. Hand over your bento, nerd. And it better be pinku.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493087

>Nature has created the perfect system for us to use.

yeah

this thing is the model of perfection

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493085
It's pink, but it has THREE compartments.
Deal with it, bitch.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493020
Just to ruin your fun, that image is from a Photoshop contest.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493095
Not to mention the nerve that runs down from the brain, to the heart, then all the way back to the brain. Pretty damn stupid in a giraffe, I'll tell you that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493014
Why haven't you bought a war bond yet, /jp/?

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493095
Imma fill your cecum with mecum

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493095

God created the appendix to remind us that without Him, our lives can explode. Can I get an "Amen?"

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493112
le amen

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493095
Find me a better circulatory system than the one we have instead of showing me byproducts of evolution.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493112
America is the Appendix that never bursts.
God bless America.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493087

Why does the windpipe, a human's sole oxygen intake, coincide in location with the place where bits of irregularly-shaped food fly down a tight tunnel?

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493140

>circulatory system

Are you literally fucking retarded? Also: I thought you said it was "perfect"?

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493097
What a pointless thing to photoshop.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493140
That's a stupid argument to make and you know it.
Especially considering that out own evolution was definitely not directed, and any artificial parts (be they inorganic, organic, or biological) will more than likely be grown and developed by directed- lab based- evolution, which holds the evolutionary pressures in a different light

Natural selection designs us to be cost efficient. In modern countries, there is ample food, so resources aren't an issue, however our bodies are designed to sacrifice power, brain size, speed, strength, all to be cost efficient in a food limited environment. How strong could we actually get?

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493140
Gee I wonder what birds have?

Humans are floppy pieces of flesh that are only useful because of our cognitive ability. Nature shit on us for physical adaptations except for our magical thumbs.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493169

Way stronger than we currently are. Silicon brains don't get neuron degeneration.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493102
FUCK YEAH

SLAP A JAP
BUY WAR BONSD

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493147
Efficiency. Two pipes would require more maintenance and energy to maintain.

>>9493154
It is perfect in the sense that it is a system that is efficient, does it's job better than anything in existance (you fail to bring upon evidence showing otherwise) and, as you have so kindly pointed out, it can be customizable.

>>9493169
>Natural selection designs us to be cost efficient.

I'm not stating otherwise. I'm stating we could learn how to manipulate that process instead of going around replacing body parts with mechanical equivalents. The former makes much more sense than the latter.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493183

They are two pipes, idiot. We're talking about location. They just happen to be placed in a configuration which allows us to choke to death when we try to eat.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493020
>>9493097
Ironically, with my monitors, scanner/printer, and what not, my computer setup does basically take up an entire wall of my room.

That image always makes me want to get a steering wheel controller too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493181
Loose lips sink ships
Semen drowns.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493199
Two pipes that converge into one (mouth and nose into pharynx) and then diverge back to two (at the esophagus). Again, for efficiency. You may arge that it would be much more efficient if we had only one pipe from the start, but that point is invalidated by the fact both the mouth and nose have different specializations.

My anatomy is not up to date so I might have misplaced the pharynx and the larynx.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493218
I'm sorry. I meant to quote >>9493194

[Anonymous No.]

In the near future we are going to create an AI agent capable of making more intelligent versions of itself really fast, and it's eventually going to do something stupid like decide humanity isn't worth the Earth's resources. Please donate to the Singularity Institute and Oxford Martin School so that we can reduce the risks.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493183

FYI: a jet engine the size of a human lung can take in and exhale about ~1,200,000 = ~40,000x more cubic meters of air per minute than a human lung. A lot more efficient, too; a human lung requires the contractions of the diaphragm to inhale and exhale air, which costs about a twentieth of a scientific calorie per "flex"; using the same ratio, a commercial long-flight engine would only require an eighth of a calorie per "flex."

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493228
That's cool. But how would you maintain that structure and fix it in case there's a problem?

[Anonymous No.]

Blue-throated Hummingbird active heart rate1260 bpm
Human active to limits 200~ bpm

Efficient rite?

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493238

We don't need to worry about that since we're not too stupid to perform cognitive actions such as repairs any more. True sentience broke evolution.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493238
That's a bad point to make.
For two main reasons:
1. A self repairing system wouldn't be able to produce such a device, due to its cellular makeup, and so it's like asking where gun arms would get their ammo from.
2. If such a respiration system was built and placed into humans for some reason (goddamn it's awesome ot imagine someone with a jet engine lung that has hyper oxygenated blood that can run like 100m in 3 seconds, but anyway), then it's build outside of the body. Faults would require extraction, replacement, and diassembly. When fixed it'd go back in, since a backup jet engine lung was used in the meantime. Anyway, the point is, you made the damn thing in a factory, not in a body, so you can fix it whenever you want without requiring a self repair system.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493247
Please make more sense.

>>9493256
>Faults would require extraction, replacement, and diassembly. When fixed it'd go back in

The point I'm trying to make is for efficiency. How is that maintenance method better than the one used by the lung? Take a constipated lung and one of those engines filled with dust, for example.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493247
> True sentience broke evolution.
Arguably not.
If a true sentient died while the half sentient survived, evolution is not broken.
Evolution cannot be broken.
Sentience is a tool, like strong arms, claws, etc, and if it allows survival of the gene to a greater extent, it will propagate. If it loses to, say, a dark skin subrace that outbreeds, outkills, and outlives the true sentients, then evolution was not beaten, and sentience was just a short lived species that lost in the grand scheme of things.

[Anonymous No.]

luddhites are retarded

body parts are not going to take part in some samurai honor-battle where the one which can go the longest without being repaired wins

one of the hugest advantages of mechanical limbs *is* how much easier they are to repair than flesh, tendon, sinew and bone

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493285

Do you have a fourth grade reading level?

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493281
Not in our current utopian environment. Show me how humans have evolved in the past couple of millenia.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493281
>Evolution cannot be broken.
Okay it can be broken by immortality, but besides that, the point still stands.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493308
Evolution doesn't work on a two millennium timespan. Try asking how humans have evolved in the last 100k years.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493308
>millenia
As our lifespans grow, we evolve slower.
Society slows evolution, it doesn't stop it.
And evolution happens on a generational basis, a few thousand years is not even 50 generations. Bacteria go through a 50 generations in a day.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493296
Yes.

>>9493282
They are easier to repair exactly because they are simpler. And if they are simpler, they will break easier than regular body parts. And there's no garantee there will always be enough resources to fix your mechanic arms. Yet another point in which it loses against simple genetic manipulation.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493387
Do you honestly think anyone cares? 90% of the board is filled with people who got into engineering. Even if you make sense they'll disregard your point of view. It goes against their life choices after all.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493342
125~ generations
>>9493334
How have ants evolved? Evolution doesn't work in social conditions.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493387

there's no guarantee there will be enough food to fix your organic arms

are you dumb? you realize humans don't just magically fix themselves, yes

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493387
Jet engines are simpler than lungs, or skin, yet which one is easier to repair?
Although this does actually agree with you, just that complexity is a bad reason. It's the horrific complexity of genetic organisms that allows them to be easily repaired and maintained.
Relatively, anyway, and depending on the injury.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493393

I'm in organic chemistry and you're still full of shit. Technology can create MUCH better bodies than nature can.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493421
But he agrees with you

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493414
In which case I'll just take a shot to get my regular arms back.

How will you get yours back?

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493421
Define better.

Since that's what we're debating; what 'better' actually means when you're talking about limbs. Mechanical limbs are much stronger, but require society to keep them around and working

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493421
I wasn't aware genetics was in the realm of magic. Is it not technology as well?

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493430

Where's the shot going to come from? You know those are a finite resource too, right?

A lot more finite than the steel and silicon you need to fix a prosthesis, too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493435

Do you think society is just going to suddenly go away?

[Anonymous No.]

Why the hell do you even need physical bodies?

Transfer into a 3d holographic interface would be superior. Or just simply existing inside a network.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493439
>Where's the shot going to come from?
Genetic mapping that documentates my gene map before the changes. A document easier and cheaper to store than two organic arms.

>A lot more finite than the steel and silicon you need to fix a prosthesis, too.

I'm not sure if you know what you're talking about, here.

[Anonymous No.]

Anyway so- self healing doesn't actually have to be contradictory with mechanical. All it requires is a self-replicating unit. It could be like T-1000 type of mechanical, that'd be kickass.
Infact, yes, I'd prefer to have a T-1000 type body/limb since that shit is pretty much indestructible.

>>9493442
don't shoot the messenger

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493435
>require society to keep them around and working

Would they?

It's not like we're incapable of building things to last.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493399
>How have ants evolved? Evolution doesn't work in social conditions.
New types of ants have formed that can dig deeper, or smell better, or do whatever it is that ants do, only better, and have out-competed old species.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493456
Accidents happen.
If you break your arm bone, you can mend it with basic medical knowledge.
If you break your circuitry that runs your arm, what the fuck are you going to do without a circuit fabricator? A fabricator that requires supply chains of silicon, lead, etc etc, and those supplies require additional supply chains... and so on.
Anyway, the type of mechanical arm I'd like is a T-1000 type arm, but the individual particles can form a processing unit to produce more of themselves upon command in case I lose a blob of arm material.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493450
>Genetic mapping that documentates my gene map before the changes. A document easier and cheaper to store than two organic arms.
That's actually pretty smart on the assumption that your entire body would be able to return to that previous gene map. Otherwise rejection.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493481
My arm is a group of supercomputing nanomachines that can reconfigure their collected shape in milliseconds without any repairs needed on my part.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493481

What if it's not the arm bone? There's *plenty* of ways the body can fuck up which need complex technological intervention to be rectified.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493473
Bullshit. Ants haven't evolved for 140~million years.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493481

Nah. Change the digestive system to process silicon out of ore or in pure form, then have a grafting system built into the derma which regenerates broken circuits. What the body does isn't magic and is replicable with technology.

In the end, luddites are luddites because new things scare them.

[Anonymous No.]

Stop bullying ants you jerks, they're lovely little creatures.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493492
Evolution is not just making new species with crazy limbs and bigger brains and shit. Evolution (with natural selection) is the slow process in which an organism becomes more adapted to it's environment. Even if ants became just a tiny more resistant to a certain ant disease that was prominent 139.999 million years ago, it is still evolution.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493491
Most of those things aren't accidental, and are typically due to genetic defects. It all depends on the usage environments and the design of the mechanical arm.
What if it needs oiling regularly?

>>9493503
What you propose there is pretty future tech. Like centuries away future tech. Turning genes (presumably) into circuitry is a bit much.
Hell why not have bio circuitry?
Cyborg arms are probably going to be more useful anyway. Mechanical parts (like the 'bones' will be some kind of titanium alloy, the 'muscles' will be some sort of chemically powered piston, hell why not put the muscles that control the arm somewhere else in the body, and have them operate the actual arm through some sort of bio hydraulics?) Anyway, there's plenty of 'add magic here to fix this problem and then there are no problems'.
I could put nanobots inside a bio arm and then broken arms, bullet wounds, cancer, etc, would all fix itself.

[Anonymous No.]

If in 2045 we invent biological interface systems capable of reproducing natural stimuli and behavior, then by 2046 all of humanity will be wasting away, strung out on constant orgasms by computers.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493519

Nah, there's LOADS of non-accidental ones. Appendicitis, heart disease, infections, aneurysms...

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493503
>luddite

Your usage of this term tells me you have completely no idea what is being discussed in this thread. Please read it instead of jumping to conclusions. Lurking isn't just something you do when you discover a new board.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493523
Like how when heroin was invented all of humanity was strung out on heroin and humanity wasted away

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493529

Maybe your vocabulary is just shit? You do keep mentioning how you can't understand simply-worded posts.

[Anonymous No.]

Immortality is just a myth. Maybe you can evade natural death and extend your lifetime. However, that doesn't make you immortal. You can still die.

Anyway, even if something like that could become true, wouldn't it be painfull? To see everyone born and die (everyone who can't afford the treathment), to see the world reach to an end, and you would be the last human in the world, with nobody to interact to, for the eternity...

Thinking about that scares me more than the fact that one day I will die.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493528
Most are unrelated to the posit 'arm' used to framework and limit the discussion to something that can be limited in scope instead of go everywhere, but those problems are problems of a human body, and problems of a mechanical body will be a long list too.
Unless you figure that humankind will fix the long list of mechanical problems without being able to fix the biological ones.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493509
C-C chemokine receptor type 5, also known as CCR5 or CD195, is a protein on the surface of white blood cells that is involved in the immune system as it acts as a receptor for chemokines. This is the process by which T cells are attracted to specific tissue and organ targets. Many forms of HIV, the virus that causes AIDS, initially use CCR5 to enter and infect host cells. A few individuals carry a mutation known as CCR5 delta 32 in the CCR5 gene, protecting them against these strains of HIV.

Humans have a gene that prevents some strains of HIV

Why haven't we evolved so everyone has them? Your bullshit evolution doesn't work in social conditions.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493542
Here's where invincibility and immortality diverge.
It's generally considered that immortality is a state of elongated life, where time won't kill you. Other things can though.
Invincibility is when nothing but time can kill you.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493535
>The Luddites were a social movement of 19th-century English textile artisans who protested—often by destroying mechanized looms—against the changes produced by the Industrial Revolution

Applying this to what's being talked about means a luddite is someone who opposes technology. I'm not against transhumanism. I'm against your retarded idea of transhumanism. Please, read the thread.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493554

You're against not being dumb.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493530
Heroin is naturally scarce; people do eventually have to scrap themselves up and make money for the next hit .Having a chip in your head is not (beyond manufacture and activation of the chip, that is).

[Anonymous No.]

You seriously want the government to force you to work, /jp/?

Fuck transhumanism and anyone who buys into that new-age religion.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493550
Huh, what?
That's a dumb fucking argument.
One, because the CCR5 gene was propagated as a result of the black death, and two, HIV is propagated through reproduction.
Evolution isn't magic, bro.
You're asking the exact same thing as this:
"Why didn't the dodo just evolve out of the reach of the human settlers"

The answer is that evolution doesn't work that fast. Society slows down evolution.
CCR5 is rare enough so that barely anyone of them will get HIV. The thing that prevents it from being widespread is the lack of HIV being widespread. There are just lots of people. Imagine if everyone got HIV all at once.
You bet your ass there would be more people with CCR5 would be alive in 20 years than those that weren't.
What you're demonstrating is a clear lack of understanding of the proccesses involved.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493550
>Humans have a gene that prevents some strains of HIV

What the hell are you even saying? HIV isn't a virus that destroyed mankind. In fact, people with HIV can still live for quite a while. Only in a situation in which the entire population (which, seeing as we're talking about humans, is spread across the whole world) is in danger of extinction does the evolutionary mechanism kick in. It's not a matter of society stopping evolution and more of a case of the HIV not being that big a factor to catalyze species evolution.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493568

You think having chips surgically implanted into your brain is cheaper than a hit of heroin?

What the fuck? The argument is still fallacious, but damn.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493583
It's not cheaper but it's effects are (presumably) permanent.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493583
The cost doesn't matter, it's a one time thing, whereas heroin has to be repeatedly bought and manually used. Heroin addicts have to exert much more effort to stay high, but an orgasm chip can keep you cumming in perpetuity.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493579
>>9493577
But it gives certain advantages right?
>Even if ants became just a tiny more resistant to a certain ant disease that was prominent 139.999 million years ago, it is still evolution.
Was the statement my reply was directed towards.

The entire point of post was saying how evolution doesn't work in social conditions. If you can give me an example of evolution happening in a large scale society I will let you win this argument.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493542
>you would be the last human in the world, with nobody to interact to, for the eternity...
It's just a fear of loneliness that you feel, the same fear that you'd feel if everyone died right now and you were the only one left.

There's no reason you should ever be left alone. Why would humans/all life on earth die out? Why couldn't you move to another planet and/or find friendship in other species?

The only thing that scares me about immortality is being trapped, like sunk underwater or buried underground. Imagine you commit some crime and get sentenced to be sealed in a barrel on the moon for 10,000 years.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493530
>Like how when heroin was invented all of humanity was strung out on heroin and humanity wasted away

That did happen with China and opium.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493610
>If you can give me an example of evolution happening in a large scale society I will let you win this argument.

You know this is impossible because there has only been one species with the ability to create a society. Unless you count species like ants and bees. In that case That's easy, since there are so many types of bees in the worls. Same for ants.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493610
Americans evolved into whales over the last few decades.

[Anonymous No.]

>cybernetics
You know that movie "War Games" ? Or better yet, since there was actually some redeeming stuff in the original, you remember the stupid modern sequel? You know how silly the computer stuff on it was?

That's "cybernetics." It's silly, it's make-believe and not just because it hasn't been done yet, it doesn't make sense if you know what a computer is. It just seems plausible to you all because you don't really have any idea what a computer is or how it works, you just worship it (and probably the magic spirits you must believe live in it.)

As for the replacing body parts thing, though, that isn't news. They even keep faggots alive without a pulse/heartbeat on heart and lung machines.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493635
But they haven't evolved. It's a giant social swarm with a really important queen. Individual ants don't breed.
>>9493675
All they need is some exercise, it;s reversible. Go lift some weights.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493610
Autism

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493693
Are you a creationist? It seems like you're implying all ant species don't have a common ancestor.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493711
No, I'm just saying that evolution doesn't work on large scale super societies like the ones we live in now. They evolved until they were able to create these societies and then stopped because the societies didn't allow mutations to dominate.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493681
I'd tell you to explain but you couldn't defend your point if your access to 4chan depended on it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493734
was directed at
>>9493725

[Anonymous No.]

Creationists: All life was created by god, evolution may have happened afterwards but there's no real proof for it.
Evolutionist scum: Uh, everything came from one big magic god bacteria called LUCA that magically turned into every living thing we see today, from plants to giraffes.

Yup, keep listening to those "scientists".

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493736
You can't figure out how to bait me into a troll "debate" ? Seriously?

Make something up, go on.

[Anonymous No.]

Why are you arguing about this irrelevant shit?

And not even irrelevant fun shit, like whether or not Shiki can kill servants.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493853
It's better than imagedumps, roleplaying, recycling threads, and /cgl/ whoring. This is the shit that got me into image boards.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9492969
You still won't have it even if you slave away at some shit job enriching another person.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493853
Think of a chess set magically playing with itself. Wouldn't that be entertaining to watch, just because it's magic? Like, whee, look at it go.

The've probably posted this news link multiple times on their /b/oards, and are posting it here because they figured out how to work in "NEET" bullshit, thus making it /jp/ related. I know I've seen basically this same thread brought up multiple times elsewhere, with tons of VERY serious replies each time.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493681
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493896
Someone made a thread about the exact same thing a week ago. It got one reply. Which was, of course, mine.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9493922
Keewl. Like, please reply

[Anonymous No.]

Is the same as how Nuclear Fusion is always 50 years away.

I'm guessing it probably is

[Anonymous No.]

And then we will get trapped inside the VR like in SAO/Aruvu Rezuru.