/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

How can you guys stand reading VNs? They're so fucking boring. I can't play one for more than a few minutes without getting bored. I'd rather just read a book or watch something, instead of click through a bastardized hybrid of the two.

[Anonymous No.]

Get out then.

[Anonymous No.]

Maybe visual novels aren't for you.

Some people's attention spans are too short to read books, but they don't blame the books.

[Anonymous No.]

I don't

[Anonymous No.]

Not all of us read VNs.

[Freezing !BASARADtDc No.]

>I'd rather just read a book or watch something,

Youre boring

[Anonymous No.]

>>9162711
Only shitposters don't.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9162718
But only half of my posts are shitposts, the other half are 2hu.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9162718

That's because shitposters tend to ironically have the least amount of autism on his board.

VNs are garbage for idiotic otaku who need pretty pictures and noises with their text.

[Anonymous No.]

I put it on auto and then I lay in my bed with my headphones on. I don't get bored unless it's a bad game.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9162728

>game

I don't think you can call a slideshow a game.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9162715
>I'd rather shitpost on /jp/
your boring

[Anonymous No.]

>>9162734
I'm pretty sure he just did.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9162732
I call bullshit on this as an experienced funposter.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9162737

Well then he's incorrect, faggot.

This is you and OP under the faggot umbrella-it's raining logic and reason that VNs not games and are also garbage for nerds, and you two are blissfully ignorant sucking each other's cocks at night.

But you're not pretty girls. You're ugly, fat autists.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9162734
Okay, I will call them slideshows from now on.
I'm used to refer to them as eroge, so game was the first word that popped up.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9162734
It has choices, it's a game.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9162746
Thanks for sharing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9162732

Correction:

VNs are garbage for idiotic autistic otaku who need repetitive pretty pictures and generic voice acting to accompany their illiteracy and lack of imagination at reading plain text

[ZUN !barYV1VtIA No.]

I like them because I'm fond of (text) ADVENTURE GAMES and RPGs and other text heavy video game genres.

There are at least a few good VNs out there, so it kinda makes you look like a ADHD aspie if you say something like that, OP.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9162732
>That's because shitposters tend to ironically have the least amount of autism on his board.
It's not very polite to actually type that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9162804
I highly doubt it's true anyway.

[Anonymous No.]

Because VN have their own good sides. They are exceptionally good at setting ambiances and getting you in their world. Music, graphics, and the animated create a great immersion. Throw in an interesting plot and some good characters, and you're good for hours of reading.

You can't have that kind of experience with a book. Yeah you can imagine everything, and get sucked into it, but, unless you are a book worm, you won't feel like you are "in" the book.

That's why people like VN : they combine the storytelling / details of a book, and the immersion of a game.

I won't say that I am a huge VN lover (that would be lying), but from my experience I can understand why people like them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9162746
>bitching about autistic nerds.
>on the internet
>which was made by autistic nerds
>on 4chan

[Anonymous No.]

>>9162830

Who are you quoting?

[Anonymous No.]

>>9162830
I'm sure he's just being ~ironic~.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9162795

>I like them because I'm fond of (text) ADVENTURE GAMES and RPGs and other text heavy video game genres

VNs are more like choose-your-own-adventure novels for preteens with eroge thrown in so the heaving, sweaty masses of otaku will buy it and can pretend they have a real social life. I'd imagine that if you actually liked text-based rpgs and adventure games, you'd be disgusted by the lack of choice or variation in VNs. Fucking casual.

Besides, text-based games have always been aimed at sperglords.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9162755
I can never take these criticisms where people just stuff their posts with whatever adjectives they can think of seriously.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9162752

Is ordering pizza a game too? You have choices.

[Anonymous No.]

There is so much anger in this thread.
Take it easy guys.
;_;

[Anonymous No.]

>>9162828
>Yeah you can imagine everything, and get sucked into it, but, unless you are a book worm, you won't feel like you are "in" the book.

I can have that experience with your mom though, the getting sucked into sensation and feeling like I'm "in" HER book, if you know what I mean.

[Anonymous No.]

I can't take anime fans that bash manga, LNs, VNs, and games seriously. I can only imagine what anime would be like without them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9162828

>Music, graphics, and the animated create a great immersion

I hope you're kidding yourself. A standard VN will recycle the same artwork for several hours onwards, with only minor modifications to portray the most minimal facial expressions necessary to convey emotion.

...That moment when you realize you've been listening to the same bgm for 10 hours.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9162880
I can't take it easy when there are self-loathing nerds around on /jp/.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9162882
I like VN but...

If there wasn't any manga, VN and LN.

Then...

Maybe...

We would have more original anime ? And more GOOD ones at that ?

[Anonymous No.]

>>9162893
Oh boy. Please go back to /a/ if you want to get into that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9162898

>anime is not ewwtaku culture fack off to /a/ lel XDD

[Anonymous No.]

>>9162886
Using the word "standard" to say "bad" is quite stupid on your part.
I could say that the "average" book is a shitty murder story written by overrated writer. Or that the "average" movie is a Hollywood action movie.

Never said that all VN were good, just that the VN medium allowed a nice experience. Now there are bad VN and good VN, and I don't care about the bad ones.

[Anonymous No.]

Hey VNfags, if VNs are so good, what's the best one ever?

[Anonymous No.]

>>9162910
Anime is /a/ related, dipshit, return to your shithole.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9162922

And no just listing shit you like, THE BEST EVER.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9162922
Hello, fag!

[Anonymous No.]

>>9162910
Fuck off Trevor.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9162855
Only in MURRIKA

[Anonymous No.]

>>9162931
>>9162922
Oh god. Stop trolling, seriously, you're terrible at it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9162942

What's the matter nerd? Does your government mandate that you have one and only one kind of pizza because you're a commie, freedom-hating piece of shit?

By the way, pizza that wasn't dough with shit flecked all over it was invented in AMERICA. It was just niggerbread in Italy until AMERICA made it worth something.

And don't you forget it, you fucking piece of shit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9162931
http://vndb.org/v5035

Go back to /a/

[Anonymous No.]

>>9162927

Name me some notable "good" VNs, and tell me how many times the same frame or bgm was recycled over the course of several hours.

Obsessing over the same repetitive things again and again for hours on end is called Autism, son.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9162957
More like we think real games, like eroge, are more interesting than ordering pizza

[Anonymous No.]

>>9162963

Make me, dork. Fuck off with the autistic database. I can almost smell the cheetos and poverty from here.

[ZUN !barYV1VtIA No.]

>>9162859
>>sweaty masses of nerds will buy it and can pretend they have a real social life.

You're thinking of modern online multiplayer games. I'm sure you play at least one.

[Anonymous No.]

I've never been able to enjoy VNs, myself. I'm not sure why. I enjoy anime, and I enjoy literature. But when I combine them together, I just don't like it. Same with manga. I've read maybe 5 manga in my life because I just don't like them. Even if it has an anime adaption, and I enjoyed that.

But /jp/ is my friend and if she likes VNs then I'm not going to be an ass about it.

[Anonymous No.]

VN's are bullshit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9162975

I actually don't. I don't like playing games with people over the internet, spergmaster.

[Anonymous No.]

Why are there so many people arguing against "I don't like it so it sucks"? Are you all really that bored?

[Anonymous No.]

>>9162975
congrats on the marriage

[Anonymous No.]

"I'm here to buy 15 copies of Imouto Rapeland deluxe: Volcanic cumblaster edition, please!
"You probably wouldn't understand what a great, insightful game it is, being a normalfag and all."

[Anonymous No.]

>>9162964
You are asking me to remember the number of times I hear the same BGM in a VN ? You could remember it from a movie, but what you are asking is like remembering it from a serie or a RPG.

Yes VN recycle music and frames, because they are usually made by small companies with low means.
Im not as much of a autist as you, but I think that Mahoyo doesn't recycle that much frames and BGM.

Now, if you want to shit on it, do it. I don't care.
I only played the demo, so Im guessing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9163003
Why are you inquiring on such trivialities?

[Anonymous No.]

>>9162964
an made bor

[Anonymous No.]

>>9163010
Why are you inquiring on his reasons for inquiring?

[Anonymous No.]

>>9163010
I have become curious and am seeking answers.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9163020
It was more of a rhetoric vessel, rather than an honest inquiry, to point out how he is taking note of such pointless shit to show how he might actually be as bored as he thinks we are.

[Anonymous No.]

This thread is solid proof that VNs are shit and made exclusively for autistic manchildren.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9162886
I hope you're kidding yourself. A standard novel will recycle the same words for several hours onwards, with only minor modifications to portray the most minimal descriptions necessary to convey emotion.

...That moment when you realize you've been reading the same words for 10 hours.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9163039
And if you don't like them you don't belong in /jp/ because we are all manchildren.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9163043

But VNs do that too, you fucking moron.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9163019

I never said VNs were shit. However, they still are inherently inferior to animation or literature, with regards to the capability of its medium.

Probably the only thing going for VNs that distinguishes it from the above two relatively linear mediums is the whole alternate routes/endings thing, but then again, videogames can do it much better as well as incorporate less frame recycling as well as introducing other interactive elements.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9163043
I hope you're kidding yourself. A standard movie will recycle the same actors for several hours onwards, with only minor modifications to portray the most minimal play necessary to convey emotion.

...That moment when you realize you've been watching the same scene for 2 hours.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9162964
Pop music is usually the same chords over and over again, also refrains and shit. Genres in fiction exist because of people's need of knowing what they will find in the story. If it's as you say, the majority of the world population would be autistic. Actually, autists are just people whose obsessions are not recognised as healthy by society, but that doesn't mean that people don't generally enjoy repetition. Also VNs aren't made by big companies yknow.

[Anonymous No.]

Whatever guys. I'm gonna crawl into my bed now and read/play until the early morning.
Good night /jp/!

[Anonymous No.]

>>9163064
If we are talking about mediums alone :

Video Games > VN > Anime > Cinema > Litterature

VN has way more potential and can do way more things, they can include animation, pictures, music, words, voices, and multiple choices. Hell, it can even have video-games in it.

VN doesn't recycle everything because of the medium, but because of their budget. It's possible to do VN with fully animated sprites (and some games with a VN-style narration do it) or with a fuckton of music. But it cost money.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9163129

Actually, going by your logic, your own imagination is much more superior to any of those, since you can imagine much more than can be put into any medium. The thing is, it's pointless to speak of capacity or capability if it can't be represented with results.

I'd disagree with literature being the last. I'm not sure if it can even be ranked since it deals with language which is the base for almost every narrative--that is, unless we find a way to directly stimulate simulations into the brain. It's the most minimalist, of course, but I suppose my main problem with VNs is that it tends to eschew language in exchange for stereotypical representations which aren't very original (e.g., anime-style), which pale in comparison when i've read descriptions of character appearance alone that span several paragraphs and pages.

If you've read the opening of Lolita you probably know what i'm talking about. With VNs, I don't really "look into" the appearance of the character, I only get the impression of (if the art is particularly well done): "oh, that's a nice anime-style image", and that's all it gets to.

Perhaps i'm just not a visual person, i've never stared at an image for longer than 10 minutes, though there are exceptions. Though, I admit that it's probably my inflated ego but in light of this I tend to look down upon those who prefer the instant gratification of appearance instead of taking the time to soak in its details, although i'll try not to talk about it in front of you if that annoys you.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9163129

Video games should be dead last in 2012.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9163203
Not that guy, but I think that there are things a VN can do that would be impossible for literature to accomplish.

Literature is communication, and the impression you get when reading is sometimes essential to communicating the idea properly. A shorter description of a character or scene and music that sets the tone can convey something a lot more tightly than you might be able to in writing. That could be useful in intense scenes where the flow is important.

That's why I think VNs are superior, literature will always be held back by those things.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9163231

Then why haven't VNs ever delivered anything as deep or lengthy as literature, if they have all that freed up space and time to deliver more to the viewer?

[Anonymous No.]

>>9163269
I'm not sure that claim is justified. Saya and Fate were more intelligent than any book I've read. Literature always seems to be trying to follow old habits with overly wordy descriptions with too many adjectives about houses or such, and seems to fall short of the mark somewhere along the line. Now Fate was overly wordy, but it certainly didn't commit the sin of describing houses in unnatural and stupid ways, and it delivered mature ideas. I think both could use some work.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9163231

You have a point that I perhaps missed--brevity has its merits. Still, there are times when plain text is still more concise than an image. A simple "he slit his throat" is to the point, and you can be assured that your reader won't miss it unless they skip over the text. While, if said action was animated (perhaps a couple of frames), it could be done to the same effect, but the readers might miss it if it went too fast since you would need to balance emphasis with speed. The only thing lacking from text is the lack of visuals, which would be a problem for some.

Also, one thing I should add is that the action on the page doesn't need to occur in real time, nor is it feasible (this goes for a VN as well). Years can go by on text when you could read it for a minute, and you could use a minute's worth of reading time to specify what occurs in the space of a few seconds. I don't think this would be much of a problem though, since the average educated adult reads at about 200-300 words per minute, which should be enough for most high-paced encounters.

[Anonymous No.]

I think the primary strength of VNs in practice is immersion.

>>9163213
He's talking about the potential of the medium, not the way it turns out in practice. A VN that exercised it's "full potential" would have hours of scored music and thousands of drawings, but for obvious reasons, nobody would ever make it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9163269

Short answer: VNs are a young medium and haven't had time to mature. Computers were only popularized a few decades ago, while literature stretches back for several thousands of years.

>>9163309

That's a bit counterintuitive. It's like touting a blank page as the literary masterpiece of the century because if only there were the perfect combination of words on it, it would be breathtaking.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9163302
I'm not saying that regular writing can't be good, there's probably something that fits the style more in one medium than the other. I'm just not sure that writing alone is optimal in most cases.

A point I'd like to emphasize is the use of music as a way to amplify the communication of a theme or emotion. There are some feelings that are impossible to communicate with words that can be done in music.

Some context into my thinking might be helpful. I think that the best stories express an experience to the reader. It tries to take the reader to a certain feeling which would allow the reader to understand what is being said. So the story is an experience, and music can focus the reader to a certain perspective where he would be able to grasp the feeling more clearly, or to show him the feeling if he didn't see it himself.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9163348
>Short answer: VNs are a young medium and haven't had time to mature.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choose_Your_Own_Adventure

[Anonymous No.]

>>9163348
A blank page isn't literature, but it is a fairly good medium for conveying ideas provide you write something on it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9163360

CYOAs were never as popular as novels, even then.

>>9163352

Isn't the music in VNs basically that, a music track overlaid on top of images and text? There's no reason for music and books to be mutually exclusive, you can listen to music and read at the same time, and i'm sure that a music-text interface would be feasible with an e-reader.

[Anonymous No.]

Pretty sure you don't really read books, OP.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9163383
Well yeah, I suppose. But in combination with images and the method of text delivery (line by line), I think it's something in a unique position to tell a story.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9163388

I'm pretty sure the retards defending visual novels don't either.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9163360

>Originally created for 10 to 14 year olds, the books are formatted so that, after a couple of pages of reading, the "reader faces two or three options, each of which leads to more options and then to one of about 40 endings."


Jesus Christ, VNs can't even catch up to books written in the 80s for preteens.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9163404

That's implying /jp/ aren't 10-14 year old girls

[Anonymous No.]

>>9163398
Exactly, lots of people reads VisualNovels because reading a book actually takes more effort and concentration. It's hard to believe that someone who actually read books can't into VNs.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9163442
implying VNs don't require effort and concentration.
i gotta agree with your general point though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9163388

To be fair, reading IS for faggots and should not be done at length, unless you wanna catch the gay.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9163460
He's not implying that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9163442

I can finish a 200 page book in about 2-3 hours.

I can't finish a 10 hour VN (with the content equivalent to a short novella) in that same amount of time, unless I skip over the voiced lines and animations.

The amount of concentration needed for both is trivial, but I feel like i've wasted more time with the latter.

[Anonymous No.]

playing now true love its so fickung addictive though its very old

[Anonymous No.]

>>9163504
Please leave and learn some proper English.

[Anonymous No.]

Many eroge are fucking boring.

Look for eroge like Ｇ線上の魔王 that features quite a lot of comedy scenes to entertain you between the boring scenes.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9163518
Already did, you mad that non native english speakers could make mistakes in theyre sentences?get a life, fag

[Anonymous No.]

>>9163513

Sounds like you're doing it wrong.

Nukige is for fap material. Tragiboring is NOT a valid genre.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9163475
oops, my brain omitted "more" from his post. my bad.
anyway, the point is, i don't agree with this:
>reading a book actually takes more effort and concentration
i think they would require about the same ammount of effort and concentration, but depending on the person, it might be even harder to read VNs than normal novels (more distractions, also lots of VNs are pretty badly written and/or translated). i guess what you find easier to read is mostly personal preference.

[Anonymous No.]

Baka gaijins imposing their own opinions and views to something they don't like/understand? NEWS at 11!

[Anonymous No.]

>>9163539

Fuck off to an imageboard in your native language then, faggot.

[Anonymous No.]

I think the problem with VNs is that "lenght" is used as a selling factor.
You don't have that with books. You can still sell a 100 pages book as well as a 1000+ pages book. Nobody will judge the quality based on length. But with VNs it seems you definitely need to make them long or else they suck or whatever. The exaggerrated effort to increase the time of play in many cases is just ridiculous.

You just need to confront a VN and its anime adaption. Compare the same lines from the same voice actors, and you'll see them talking in slowmo in one and fast forward in the other. Often with pauses so long that are absolutely not realisitic.

And don't let me mention of the fucking long idle chat, or filler garbage that nobody cares about just to increase the word count. And what about the overuse of flashbacks (I'm talking to you MLA!).

Otherwise VNs aren't different qualitatively speaking from anime, manga or light novels, and in some cases they can be far better. But goddamn I just wish they'd cut it with the slowing and diluting shit!

[Anonymous No.]

>>9163576
THIS.
i think it's my main problem with VNs now.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9163576
I'm not sure that's true, writers do try to meet word counts to have their story sold as a novel.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9163576
Well put.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9163573
there are no decent ones, so go suck a cock and don't complain

[Anonymous No.]

>>9163591
Maybe some do, but I've never experienced the "filling" techniques that I often see in VN. And I could name a few books that are considered masterpieces even if they are barely a hundred pages long. For example: the little prince.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9163442
I think that effort and concentration is often wasted on excessive wording and irrelevant details. If they would cut out the fluff things would be better.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9163615
Goddamn I love The Little Prince. It's probably what I'd choose as my favorite short story.

I've been a bookworm, since before I didnt have a computer until I was late in my teens, so I read. Recently I read two of the Kingkiller Chronicle books and I thought they were pretty interesting in their premise of a story within a story.

But I love VNs. They're a totally different focus of narrative, because while literature stimulates your imagination, I feel VNs have a strong point in creating pathos in a more intense way than books. I feel it hasn't been exploited enough though. Movies do this a lot, but it's because the immersion is so much more given the music and ambience sounds a movie grants. VNs have music in their repertoire, and an established form of characters in the form of sprites, and voices as well so they could exploit the narration much more.

In the end, I don't get the comparison of books and VNs, though. Sure, they narrate a story with words, but they're inherently different in their strengths and weaknesses. But they do something well enough-- entertain and give me that sense of catharsis-- and that is why I like both.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9163545
No, I strongly agree with him. I'm a slow reader who doesn't automatically imagine graphical descriptions in his head, so reading novel-style writing generally feels like a chore to me. I strongly dislike novels because they always go on and on and on and on with the descriptions while I don't really care about exactly how the girl's hair looks or how much more crowded the street was that day than on other days - either show me it quickly (as they do in visual novels, they display the image and you can gather all the information from that) or leave it up to my imagination. 'Busy street' is an image that does not require a full page to create in my mind. Visual novels take out a whole lot of that effort by leaving much of the scenery and atmosphere building to the graphics and music, so the writing can actually focus on the story. I don't want to have to perform bothersome mental tasks in order to enjoy a story.
(And before someone comes with that argument - it's not 'lack of imagination'. When I get a very small description (say a single line), I imagine the situation in my head. Novels always require me to finetune that image bit by bit for way too long before they resume the story. If you're going to force a specific image onto me, just present the fucking image rather than describing it slowly.)

>>9163576
That's because you don't buy the VNs. It's easy to forget when you pirate everything, but a novel is less than 10 dollars while a VN is 9000 yen. If I get a 5-hour story for that kind of money, heads will roll. People who pay that much expect to see enough content for it to be worth their money.

[Anonymous No.]

/jp/ - Japan General

[Anonymous No.]

>>9163749
Are you implying this shouldn't be here or what?

[Anonymous No.]

Why did discussion suddenly die?

[Anonymous No.]

Techies look down on VNs because its just clicking through text and images. OK, I get that.

But why compare VNs and literature (books), when both can suffer from bad writing?

Lost Odyssey's memory recollection segments were as enjoyable as the main game. No one complained about the VN-like format since the storytelling was so good.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9165566
You mean leagues better than the main game.

[Anonymous No.]

>>9163739
>And before someone comes with that argument
Well here I am, stop being such an autistic fucktard with no imagination.
>People who pay that much expect to see enough content for it to be worth their money.

Then maybe they should be cheaper...?