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/jp/ - Otaku Culture

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8903821 No.8903821 [Reply] [Original]

I just finished Umineko.

Why is the last episode hated so much? It wasn't the worst episode, not even close. And parts of it were amazing.

Anyways, great series overall. I enjoyed it much more than any other VN I read so far.

>> No.8903832

It stopped being "fun" to me when they introduced the laser swords.

>> No.8903840

It was never truly that great. The third episode was fantastic though.

>> No.8903861

If only anime wasn't such a pathetic failure we would be getting parody OVA's.

Oh well.

>> No.8903879
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8903879

>>8903821
Cos magic doesnt real bla bla bla all that cool things only in Battler`s head.

>> No.8903896

>>8903879

But that's bullshit.

Meta was real.

>> No.8904351

I don't know anon. I thought it was very intresting to read and I grew very attached to a lot of the characters. It was silly, over the top. It was Umineko. And I loved it because of that.

Also, delicious Lambdadelta.

Delete the thread now op, /jp/ loves to ruin every single umineko thread since the closed room mistery of episode 6.

>> No.8904553

Probably hated because it places so much emphasis on Ange's inner turmoil at the expense of elucidating the mystery. While I didn't dislike it, like most other readers, I was hoping for more in-depth explanations about the various locked room mysteries. And even then, although it gave some closure to the narrative, many are of the opinion that the whole Hachijo Tohya reveal was far too contrived. The series might as well have ended on EP7, with EP8 being a mere side story.

By the way, by Word of God, the 'Single Truth' is decipherable through the clues left in the various games. Good luck with that.

>> No.8904592

Come on, I bet the 70% of the people who read Umineko never really cared about the closed room/general mysteries than about the end of the story.
I didn't really understand well what happened before the explosion, but the end was enjoyable as fuck.

>> No.8904633

>>8904592
Sounds like a terrible way to enjoy the game.

>> No.8904645

>>8903832
It stopped being fun for me when they reanimated everyone.
So, at ep2.
I don't know, Umineko is just not my sort of thing.
I like the more traditional detective novels.

>> No.8904668

>>8904592
My primary desire was to see a good, legitimate mystery unravel, not the bullshit we got.

I wasn't asking for an impossibly perfect end like Higurashi, but I wanted to see Battler figure it out, and stop the murderer. I would have been fine with a few deaths, but unfortunately, Ryukishi wanted a love drama with a very intellectually unsatisfying mystery subplot.

I don't regret reading the first four, but Chiru was pretty deal breaker for me.

>> No.8904728

What should have been done: Battler as the magic protag and Will as the mystery protag, and the choice at the end is who she listens to

The primary reason people are so mad was that the ending was presented as a choice but the mystery ending is 5 minutes long and basically amounts to 'fuck you go pick the other one'

Most people who are happy with the ending picked magic first and so didn't get that pissed off reaction

>> No.8904761

>>8904728
It was quite obvious that author wanted magic to be the real answer. And considering he's not very bright, mystery ending was surprisingly satisfying.

>> No.8904806

>>8904761
"The real answer"? What do you mean?

In my view, Will already solved most of the mysteries from the "trick" perspective in EP7. EP8's ending was about Ange moving on from the past that has haunted her or keep letting it dictate her life. The choice between accepting a magic or trick solution only determined what she herself would choose to believe, not change the fact of what actually happened. Just my two cents.

>> No.8904870
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8904870

>>8903821

surprise surprise, a umineko book can only be viewed positively when compared with another umineko book. book 8 was total and complete dogshit, but it wasn't half as bad as book 4 or even book 6. That is nothing to be proud of though.


I have actually gained a lot of respect for R07 recently though. He is actually a genius. He has done literally everything in his power to show to his fans that he does not respect them in slightest and in many cases outright resents them. He has actually convinced his flock of sheep that they literally do not deserve an ending to a story that has gone on for YEARS.

>> No.8904900

>>8904806
The "trick" or "magic" choice isn't really "Was it all just tricks or was it all magic?". It's "Do you understand what magic is? Do you understand the heart of the tale, of Beatrice?"

True magic is magic that benefits people, that adds happiness. It's no use telling a child that lady who just made candy appear on her hand is a phony and it was just a trick. It serves no purpose when the intention was just making the child happy. When you understand the heart of the tale you KNOW it was all just tricks but choose to accept it's magic because it's intention is making people (Ange) happy, so why would you break the illusion?

>> No.8904934

>>8904870
>I have actually gained a lot of respect for R07 recently though. He is actually a genius. He has done literally everything in his power to show to his fans that he does not respect them in slightest and in many cases outright resents them. He has actually convinced his flock of sheep that they literally do not deserve an ending to a story that has gone on for YEARS.

I'll never understand why people think Ryu hates them. From my point of view, he created first a mistery and then wrote a different kind of story using that mistery as foundation. I remember reading episode 5, when Bernkastel's starts destroying Natsuhi's illusions with red truth, and I remember thinking that somehow destroying the (obvious) illusion wasn't really that necessary. I knew and understood. I thought the change in the basic thematics of the story in chiru has always been clear as day. While I understand that most of the people that came for the mistery were disappointed, but I can't really see this "evil" ryukishi that most of you guys speak of.

>> No.8904941

Even if you think the ending was great and all 8 books were solid, I don't have a fucking clue how anyone can actually defend R07. The story was sold as a mystery from day 1. Even if you actually think that "closed box" or even "it actually was magic" is a superior ending to an actual resolution of some kind, there is no way you can actually defend R07's actions.

Is there anyone on this board who can say with a straight face that naming your characters after mystery writers and directly referencing agatha christie multiple times in book 1-4, then having book 5-8 be FILLED with lectures on how even EXPECTING an ending means you don't have "heart"???? how the fuck is this in any way acceptable?

Book 1 is basically a love letter to agatha christie, and that is basically my way of putting "it is a ATTWN rip-off" nicely. Even if he chose to completely shun mystery-fans in favor of loli-with-laser-sword fans, I would understand it. But making a self-insert character to condescendingly lecture the mystery-fans still sticking it out? Holy fucking shit how can anyone actually defend this man?

>> No.8904948
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8904948

USHIROMIYA 'FAST WHEELS' BATTLER

>> No.8904987

>>8904941

I understand your points. I probably simply didn't take it so seriously. I mean, mistery or not mistery, trolling or not trolling, while I REALLY enjoyed discussing about closed rooms and solving tricks... I came in for the story. And... I got a story which I liked a lot. Maybe there was a bit too much drama but I found the characters intresting enough to care about them. As for the mistery... we know the culprit (well, the mastermind at least), we have a decent why and a reasonable how for most episodes (and chiru is totally a fantasy, will ignored it completely. it's just battler and erika's sexual innuendo) went. I personally can live with the vague answer we had. Of course we could discuss about shkannon or the "rosa culprit" theory all day, but I think that's beside the point.

>> No.8904995

>>8904934

i wrote >>8904941

This is not a case of fans getting the wrong impression and being dissapointed. this is not a case of an author taking his work in a different direction while accepting the unfortunate fact that some fans wouldn't appreciate it. He literally created a self-insert character for the sole purpose of insulting and patronizing people who wanted to buy the product he was advertising.


I don't think you actually understand at all. The things that you say make sense and make you feel good about understanding the "nature" of the story? Those things are nothing more than R07s attempts to put down his own fans for no other reason other than the fact that they wanted a reveal.

You do understand that the passage you mentioned was released two years after book 1 was released right? Can you conceptualize how stringing people along for 2 years only to then patronize them for wanting the product you advertised is fucked up?

>> No.8905013 [DELETED] 

>>8904995
Those who read through all the episodes in one sitting wouldn't understand your resentment.

>> No.8905018

>>8904995
Those who read through all the episodes in one sitting wouldn't share your resentment.

>> No.8905026

>>8905018
who'd do that? One sitting, 8 episodes? Or is that a figure of speech

>> No.8905028

>>8904995

I understand well since I read it during those long years, yes. And I too strongly wanted what most people want to day. And yes, I changed idea, because I truly think that this is the correct direction the author wanted for his story. I felt trolled and then moved on. Exactly how we had two years for 1-4, we had two years for 5-8, a very long time to unders-.

No, that sounds bad, I don't want to sound like those people that say that they are right. I don't think I'm right and probably nobody would ever be since ryu decided to keep umineko so vague. What I mean is that the long years spent reading 5-8 honestly did convince me that the direction stopped being "true mistery". What we got was... a fantasy that pretended to be a mistery? Probably. And yes, I understand that hardcore mistery fans felt betrayed by hachijo's words, by all those things said by the goats. God, as I said I felt betrayed too.

I don't know anon. I would just like for other people to enjoy it as I did.

>> No.8905042

>>8905026
I dunno. What do you think?

Guess they weren't kidding about the autism.

>> No.8905052

>>8903821
The whole thing was a wild ride with memorable characters and a unique setting. I also enjoyed the ending. It takes balls to do what Ryu did.

>> No.8905063

>>8903879
>>8903896
What does it mean for something to be "real," Anonymous?

>> No.8905073

>>8904668
Maybe you should ask yourself why Battler didn't act that way upon figuring out the truth?

>> No.8905094

Ryukishi seriously need to plan/learn how to write. Or get an actual editor with some backbone or something.

First off, if he wanted to write episode 7 as he did, he should not have, in almost every prior episode, thrown in remarks and touched upon the daily lives of the maids/orphans.

Episode 7 was something of the most severe backtracking I have seen in literature. The maid/orphan thing alone was over half the episode, and it's not exactly as if the backtracking ended there.

It could easily have been a third or at half of what it was, and he could actually have explored traits not blatantly explained before.

>> No.8905119

>>8905094

maybe they needed it for the TV series because the TV show would not have included as mush information on the lives of the maids

>> No.8905137
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8905137

>>8905094
What? Sorry, I don't get what you're trying to say. Are you actually complaining about his use of foreshadowing?

>> No.8905217

>>8905137
>Are you actually complaining about his use of foreshadowing?
It's not really foreshadowing when you explain in detail how they were taken in, brought up, taught, fed and cared for/not cared for, and what typical choices they had in life.
The tasks the maids typically got, and how the completion/failure of said tasks were typically received, as well as how the maids typically felt when it came to said reception.
What typical opinions the average orphan had of it all, as well as some opinions the non-average orphan had of it all.
As well as their typical dreams and chances for future life etc etc.

And then! Episode 7 was exactly like that to the book! That foreshadowing should earn him a reward, right?

>> No.8905237
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8905237

>>8905217
My apologies, I've reread your post thrice and I still can't make out what you're trying to say. No offense to you; must be my fault for failing so hard at reading comprehension.
Try dumbing it down for me.

>> No.8905419

>>8905237
In short. Over half of episode 7 was about the orphanage, their education, and their work under the Ushiromiyas.

It just happens to be though, that at various points in the previous chapters, this had already been brought up and explained. Through antics from Natsuhi, comments from the cousins on Shannon's/Kanon's lives or whatever etc.

Everything regarding the orphanage and the servants were already quite thoroughly explained.
If it was necessary to get a grip on the daily life of Yasu as an orphan under the Ushiromiyas, that could have been done with but a fraction of the content used with the above in consideration.

>> No.8905450

>>8905419
Oh, that's what you're griping about?

Well the mentions in previous episodes was the foreshadowing to the more detailed description in EP7. Regardless, what you perceived as pointless repetition, I saw as the same topic being viewed from two different perspectives. In prior episodes, the servants' lifestyles are spoken of simply and objectively, but this is revisited from Yasu's perspective to flesh out his/her character. I personally thought it was an effective narrative device: since the reader is already well-acquainted with the objective facts, he or she can better appreciate the way they influenced and nurtured Yasu's later psychosis.

>> No.8905463

>>8905419
Oh, and not to mention: the games were released over a span of several years. I don't know if you're one of the "read-through-everything-in-a-single-sitting" guys, but repetition is often necessary for serialized media to make sure all the readers are on the same page.

>> No.8905508

>>8904995
Ikuko is a disillusioned asshat about her readers because that's the kind of person she's become, not because Ryuukishi hates you. Being an author doesn't make her his self-insert, especially in a series that is primarily about people writing things. Not to mention he spends half his interviews gushing about how amazing his readers are.

Actually, isn't there a part in Our Confession where Ikuko!Meta-Beatrice gets scolded for being an asshat by Dlanor?

>> No.8905542
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8905542

only good part of chriu

>> No.8907338

>>8905542
Really should have ended with the marriage to Battler.

Best Umineko, without a doubt. Everyone else turned to shit, even the protagonist.

>> No.8909085

>>8907338

She's too good for Battler.

>> No.8909400

What a coincidence, I also finished, last weekend! I also made a thread about it
http://archive.foolz.us/jp/thread/8892017/
Umineko is the piece of fiction I've enjoyed the most in my life by a landslide, and I've read/watched/played quite a bit.
Was the ending not what we expected? maybe. But that's not a bad thing. A bad audience always complains about endings.
I laughed a lot at the goats attack, specially that one that just dropped the game. "look at jp kun" i thought... got told by Will, faggots!
I must admit that what I enjoyed the most were those epic meta fights. The mystery, as a mystery noob, hooked me, the drama was amazingly moving, and I stayed for the fantasy.
I connected perfectly with every character. R07 empathy works exactly like mine. He was hitting perfect score with every thought and word. Also, the VN format is great for this kind of narrative. Why aren't there more VNs like this and Higurashi? closest I've played is Shittyhime, which after a good initial promise was completely cheapened by the porn and shallow as fuck characters and themes.

PS: Erika is my waifu

>> No.8909417

EP8 succeeded in making me care about Battler and Beatrice again.

That's quite something considering I lost interest in them in the middle of EP4.

>>
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