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/jp/ - Otaku Culture

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8743345 No.8743345 [Reply] [Original]

Seems like things are a little dreary in here. Let's talk inspiration!

Anyone up for the underlying philosophical layers of Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann? Haven't watched it? Go do it! Only caught the action and echii? I'll explain! We're all lonely here, so let's be lonely together!

>> No.8743352

Please tell me you're being ironic.

>> No.8743354

>>8743345
Dropped after 5 episodes, it was too boring.

>> No.8743361

I'd rather read Green Lantern than watch TTGL.

>> No.8743366

I once fought the power.

Now I'm on /jp/

>> No.8743370
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8743370

For serious. I thought it wass just a mecha over hyped anime too, but in reality, everything has a deeinite purpose that expands on the idea of "breaking through the heavens," if you will. Apart from the instances of echii, every single action in the show is just a part of the spiral they try to create.

Try skimming the first episode again, but with the idea that a 'ceiling' can also be a metaphor for human doubts. Also take particular account of everything Kamina says. It's very important to everything else that goes on (yes, yes, even his attention to Yoko's killer body in a way).

>> No.8743371
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8743371

I don't even watch anime.

>> No.8743382

ROW ROW FIGHT DA POWAH

>> No.8743380

I couldn't watch more than 4 episodes.

>> No.8743397
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8743397

Aww come on people. You don`t watch anime with a set of expectations. Why can't you guys enjoy this one in particular?

>> No.8743405

Thanks for reminding me of that ending, dick.

>> No.8743410

The last fight had to be the most epic thing I've ever seen. If you don't want to bother with watching the entire show, at least watch the last episode :P

>> No.8743409

>>8743397
Because it was awful.

>> No.8743440
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8743440

>>8743405
Aww, but it was something everyone accepted. Simon himself said that they'd only get in the way of the people around, right? That's just another part of the TTGL philosophy.
>>8743409
Not good enough, Anon-chan! Be specific~
>>8743410
Right? Nevermind the killing blow, the entire fight was amazing and believable too!

>> No.8743458

The episode where they went to a bathhouse was pretty good.

>> No.8743469

>>8743458
Bathhouse episodes are played.

>> No.8743489
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8743489

>>8743458
yeah, I found myself giggling at the multi-level trolling Gainax pulled. It was funny seeing Kamina obsess over seeing naked women the entire episode.

That reflection of Ganax's good humor aside, does anyone here view anime with the intention of picking up different ideas to live by rather than simply entertainment? It's good to have such wonderful thirsts for the media, though.

>> No.8743531

I would have liked it much more if not for the part at the end where Simon went all "we should just trust all of humanity because they obviously know what they're doing!" and became a moralfag.

This is notable because, before that point, he was mainly concerned with protecting his friends and the home he had built up for himself (the new nation that replaced Lordgenome's order). Now this is all fine and good, since these are things that actually have something to do with him. There's nothing wrong with choosing to care about such things, since that's actually understandable.

But then you make a transition to "I just want to save everybody everywhere even though they're none of my business, and almost definitely throw the universe into a black hole in the process just because it's the 'right' thing to do."

This is bad, you see? And that's precisely what it means to be a moralfag.

The correct answer is to fight the Anti-Spirals for the sake of getting them to leave you and your people alone.

And then there was Rossiu, who was determined to be as boring as possible until Simon beat some sense into him. That was kind of annoying too.

But other than that stuff, I actually really liked TTGL.

>> No.8743591

>>>/a/

>> No.8743615

/jp/ doesn't like TTGL? for once i'm not alone

>> No.8743628

>>8743531
Firstly, I would like to express my joy in your enthusiasm through an equally well-thought out post.

Now, that aside, I would have to disagree. One, on the basis that moral faggotry has existed in shonen anime for ages, and more importantly two, that Simon's choice to protect everyone was born from his understanding that the 'tomorrow' that he wanted to create so badly included everyone, even if they weren't part of his world. Furthermore, protecting the Spirals he didn't know wasn't the main reason, but a side one. The anti-spirals were against progression of the mind, spirit, etc.. because it ends up destroying everything, and so defeating them was also a step against the very idea of choosing not to do anything with one's life, one's existence. Therefore, a threat to their existence cannot be in Simon's eyes. It was only natural for him to do so.

In response to his choice to 'throw the universe into a black hole...' I must say that that was simply a risk Simon, and everyone was willing to take, for a tomorrow where they didn't acquire the 'best' future wasn't what they were interested in.

This leads into the whole Rossiu thing, where he was forced to choose between gambling on the lives of the populus, and making the necessary sacrifices to "just survive." These are things leaders today have to deal with every single day, so it's extremely relevant, haha ha.

>> No.8743848

>>8743628
"Simon's choice to protect everyone was born from his understanding that the 'tomorrow' that he wanted to create so badly included everyone"
But that's just it. Do those people all share the same dream that he does? If they do, how does he know it? The problem with the entire idea of moralfaggotry is that you're just one single person, and you refuse to realize that, so you become far too self-important.

And this is just one reason why I can't watch very many Shounen anime these days. After all, you're right: it is a constant premise of the genre.

And besides, trusting all of humanity is already enough to make me laugh. You can say what you want, but who in their right mind would leave something important up to the entirety of humanity and expect things to go well? But beyond that, trusting the entire universe?

I'm all for the idea of betting on a miracle, in fact I think it's a truly fascinating concept, but this is just ridiculous.

"The anti-spirals were against progression of the mind, spirit, etc."
Now this is not necessarily true. It seems to me that what they hoped for is more like the Buddhist ideal. In other words, being satisfied with what you have and achieving happiness that way. From their point of view, the lifestyle of the Spirals probably looks like little more than endless and mindless masturbation.

Rossiu's problem wasn't the dilemma that he faced. It was the fact that he had observed clear evidence of the supernatural in his world, and yet he still couldn't believe in it. This made him little more than your everyday human.

>> No.8743856

I haven't even seen the show and what makes it stand out from the rest of the Super Robot shows out there?

>> No.8743913
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8743913

>>8743848
Sorry, Anon. Got sidetracked and didn't notice the new post.

Anyway, it isn't self importance if you're eliminating what is threatening your existence. Remember, the anti-Spirals wanted the other Spirals unable to resist.

And well, everything else is par for the course. if you can't trust the world, how can you trust your friends, your family, your allies, and even the children who you will ultimately leave the world to? perhaps the power of spiral progress might end up destroying everything, but choosing to walk away from that progress is the same as shutting yourself underground like the residents of JeeHa Simon lived in from the beginning.

And unfortunately, I will have to disagree with you again. The Anti-Spiral said himself that Spirals ultimately engulf everything till it becomes a black hole. What you're making reference to is the Anti-Spiral distaste for how Spiral progression appears, that indulge on their progress and grow drunk on it.

>> No.8743937

If I wanted an inspirational mecha fiction I'd reread Bokurano.

>> No.8743997
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8743997

It was OK. I liked the art.

It wasn't too memorable too though since it was a mishmash of 50 other different series. So it never really had much of its own identity in the end. But it was a nice tribute show.

>> No.8744004

>>8743913
"Anyway, it isn't self importance if you're eliminating what is threatening your existence."
You don't need to kill the Anti-Spirals to eliminate that threat for you and your people alone, though. You just need to get them to fuck off.

It's notable that this course of action also makes it much more reasonable to bet on the universe not becoming a massive black hole. Therefore, why would you kill the Anti-Spirals off when you could use them to do this for you? They were already doing it anyway. You're just reducing their workload by a small fraction.

Both sides seem to have some measure of "correctness" in the points they make, so there really should be some compromise here. But because there is no compromise, it's probable that some other spiral race will rise up and become the next Anti-Spirals in the future, in order to save the universe when the spiral nemesis almost inevitably occurs, and this cycle will just keep on going.

Besides, do you remember when Anti-Spiral entrusted everything to Simon at the end? And what did he do with it? He just shrugged it off and went around planting flowers. I understand that this was Nia's dream, but he took a huge responsibility on his shoulders and he wasn't willing to bear it.

And he could have done it, because the most powerful wielders of spiral power get to pretty much live forever, if Lordgenome is any indication, so there probably isn't any need for Simon to worry about dying. I'm sure he could have thrown away his mortality if he wanted to, and there would be nothing inherently wrong about doing that.

"if you can't trust the world, how can you trust your friends, your family, your allies, and even the children who you will ultimately leave the world to?"
I think there is a big difference between "people you know and trust" and "people you don't know."

>> No.8744048

TTGL was a rather enjoyable anime, but I can't say I fully agree with some parts of it.

Unbounded, never-ending, inexhaustible progress is a very important value to me and it can be found in everything we do, be it math, science or art. It is an important humanistic value, but also a potential existential risk (we risk destroying ourselves).

Myself, I think it's a risk worth taking and an absolutely unchanging life isn't worth living - I think most conscious beings would agree with this.

That said, I don't agree with Simon deciding to step back and hold in his "power". He should have kept Nia alive and lived the life those 2 would have lived if the anti-spirals wouldn't have interfered. This is not to say that they should be reckless - they should be very careful how and what they do, but that doesn't mean they should give up the most important thing of all - life, be it theirs or the ones they care of, although I suppose the theme of sacrifice is quite common in shounens like this. Anyways, I very much disagree with Simon's final choice, but do agree that they should do their best not to destroy themselves.

>> No.8744063

>>8744048
You can't keep Nia alive unless you leave the Anti-Spirals alive. Thus, "stepping back and holding in his power" has nothing to do with it.

Also I think you're missing the point. If you absolutely have to have your ideal of endless progress for all spiral beings, then have fun with your black hole.

This is not to say that progress is bad. But there has to be some compromise here.

>> No.8744071

>>8743366
;_;

>> No.8744115

>>8744063
> If you absolutely have to have your ideal of endless progress for all spiral beings, then have fun with your black hole.
Obviously they would have to restrain themselves if resources become limited, but the actual mechanics of their universe are not that clear to me, so it really isn't obvious at all that they couldn't avoid such issues by carefully engineering around them. Endless progress can be seen as endless optimization in another way - things don't just get bigger, they get smaller and more efficient, there's plenty of room at the bottom!

>> No.8744117

>>8743997
congrats on the marriage

>> No.8744129

>>8744117
What is with this meme?

>> No.8744145

>>8744115
Putting it differently, if mass is a dangerous limitation, you have to transcend that limitation through progress - you can't have the assumption that progress and thinking is itself limited by an upper bound. I do wonder if their universe does have some ultrafinitistic upper limits, but that would be going too much into philosophy and physics or what is a fantasy universe, and we know anime physics is not a productive discussion. Either way, if such a bound exists, they would partially end up like the anti-spirals, but only after a lot of progress and I'd be willing to bet they could strike a much better balance.

>> No.8744166

>>8744129
There was a thread about it a while ago.

>> No.8744520

>>8743489
I am just like you, my friend. I watch anime exclusively to learn and gain insight. Having said that, it does limit what I watch, but I am grateful since it keeps my backlog low. I generally have the same aim in other mediums too.

To be honest, I never thought I would hear someone else express that same intent as me. It's easy to see why I get discouraged going on /a/ all the time - everyone there watches anime purely for entertainment, whether it's indulging in fanservice or senseless violence. Both carry the same trait of being extremely primitive in my eyes.

>> No.8744522

>>8744129
Autism

>> No.8744529

>>8744129
I've been missing it too, then I looked up the archive and I remembered that the actual ZUN got married. Seems someone has applied it to our local tripfag.
>>8744520
Is it really that bad to watch something merely for entertainment? I do like shows that can provide more than that, but that's rare. I don't mind a show if it can provide me some piece of happiness - that's why most people watch things - to be entertained. I'm at least glad that anime can still keep me entertained. 3DPD tv shows barely do anything for me these days. Anime still does a good job. When I want something that truly makes me think or has a chance of changing my outlook on life, I tend to read a book.

>> No.8744568

>>8744520
I'm the same as you. For years, the reason I watched it was to gain insight on things (myself, others, the world around me, and even things not of this world).

>> No.8744839

>>8744568
Sweet.

>>8744529
My attention span is atrocious - I cannot into reading. As for treating it as entertainment, I'm not saying that by aiming to extract interesting topics to meditate on, I don't have fun. I certainly enjoy it. Thing is, I stopped liking action stuff a few years ago, and I can't seem to find an anime that legitimately makes me laugh. Also, I'm not too fond of fanservice and anything overly sexual. There are rare exceptions at times, but the lack of those generally alleviate everything except a few titles.

>>
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