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8275363 No.8275363 [Reply] [Original]

Very amusing senario that has been brought up on ZUN's blog recently. I'm don't recall /jp/ even talking about it.

Everyone knows that ZUN's been enforcing rules on the doujin community for his goods, but the situation seems to keep getting more crazy as it goes on.

Here's what's discussed on his blog:
http://kourindou.exblog.jp/17092211/

I have confirmed that White Canvas had been creating goods that I haven't given permission to.

I fear it may be troublesome for Tasofro to begin the sales of the new game without the previous balance being payed, and since it seemed like they -White Canvas- were doing something rather illogical when everybody else was respecting the rules, we have come to the decision for White Canvas to stop sales of products from team Shanghai Alice.
Since they were a shop that have been favoring us for a very long time, I am truly regretful of this case.

About the copyright and re-use of fan work

Touhou Project asks of fanwork (doujin) to be done along the guidelines set, but I have received word that those fanworks used were re-used and/or altered without the consent of the creator.

Gathering the important points;
"Rights of Touhou Project go to team Shanghai Alice"
"Rights for fanwork (with regards to production, distribution, and dealing with the product in general)　fo to the creator of it"

Thus when one wishes to re-use or alter the fanwork one should ask for the permission of the creator of the fan work.
Also, everything made from those fanworks should follow the guidelines set for Touhou Project.
(If in case the creator of the fanwork is unknown (as in case of AAs) and you wish to re-use or add alterations, please be sure to use it so that the viewers will not feel discomfort)

I hope you all a good year.

>> No.8275372

Sounds fair to me

>> No.8275371

>>8275363
So what is he concerned of? That his work sells more than he would allow?

>> No.8275374

What kind of "goods" it was?

>> No.8275383

What exactly does it mean by "I have confirmed that White Canvas had been creating goods that I haven't given permission to."

>> No.8275380

op, do you really expect somebody on /jp/ caring about this? have you seen the amount of touhou related material in the first 3 pages? this board isn't anymore what it used to be.

>> No.8275382

The following day, White Canvas explain their point of view on the situation:

http://w-canvas.com/html/WhiteCanvasComment20111221.pdf


There has been a comment posted with regards to this matter on the official Blog of Team Shanghai Alice.

It is against our intentions to be presenting our company's answer towards this comment in this sort of manner, but for the circles, clients, and companies concerned about this matter, we would like to confirm on what has been happening.


1 "About the temporal hold put on White Canvas due to unpaid balance to Tasogare frontier"

It has on the Blog mentioned above, "I received word from Tasofrom that White Canvas hadn't yet payed for their sales.~I fear it may be troublesome for Tasofro to begin the sales of the new game without the previous balance being payed".

Currently, our company is settling this this matter in court with the operating company of Tasogare Frontier, SUNFISH Co. Ltd. (The representative being Tomohiko Nakajima, who is also in charge of Kourindou Co. Ltd.)

Since we are still in argument of the legal case, we would hold back on our comments, but our company is currently arguing at court after finishing the "unfinished payments" mentioned in the above Blog.

We find it inappropriate, and truly unsatisfactory that the above Blog commented on the matter as if our company had not finished our payments for no specific reason.

We also find it truly dishonorable that ZUN (Oota Junya), a third person to this case between our company and SUNFISH Co. Ltd. commented on this matter on his own official Blog, with a critical statement towards our company.

We are suffering inconveniences because ZUN had spread this false information on the internet towards the many miscellaneous viewers, and commented as if we hadn't payed off for all of Team Shanghai Alice's works.

As a company, we would like to declare a strong opposition to these points.

>> No.8275385

ZUN is killing slowly his goldmine...I hope you guys are aware of it. in ten years, touhou will be less than half it is now.

>> No.8275386

>>8275382
2. About "using White Canvas creating goods without consent as a reason to hold sales"

In 2007 June 23rd, our company had signed a "licensing contract" with ZUN, and due to this contract, we hold the rights to make and sell goods with Characters created by ZUN.

This contract was signed by a request by ZUN to replace the 2004 August 13th "Exclusive sales contract" (A contract allowing our company exclusively to sell products by ZUN in and out of Japan)

After that, our company had created products such as character goods that follows the "licensing contract", and had payed the royalty of those products to ZUN.

In the October of 2010, we received word that the copyright management of team Shanghai Alice had moved to Oyamada Fumio (Current manager of Kourindou Co. Ltd.). Oyamada Fumio had told us that "The copy rights to the works of team Shanghai Alice had moved to Kourindou Co. Ltd. and we would like to sign a new contract.".

The new licensing contract presented by Kourindou Co. Ltd. was something very apart from the original livencing contract that we had signed with ZUN, and not something that our company could allow. Also, at although we were told that "The management of the copyrights of Team Shanghai Alice owned by ZUN had been moved to Kouridou Co. Ltd." our company was not presented with any contracts documents that could become proof of the matter.

>> No.8275387

>>8275386
For our company, if the new contract does not prove fit, we can follow the previous contract (the "licensing contract" in 2007 June 23rd) to continue with our production of goods for it is still withing the validation period.
The precise details of the management of the copyright that ZUN held is not something that would effect the validity of this contract.

We feel that Kourindou Co. Ltd. does not understand these details.

Furthermore, about the licensing contract mentioned above, ZUN and Kourindou Co. Ltd. seem to have a different view that our company hold, and we are currently under argument about this matter through our lawyers.

>> No.8275395

>>8275385
how sad do you have to be to be engrossed in touhou after ten years?

>> No.8275396

>>8275385 ZUN is killing slowly his goldmine..
Yeah, because he gets royalties out of every doujin work based on Touhou.

Oh wait.

>> No.8275397

The peace in the Touhou community is broken. ;_;

>> No.8275411

And I still can't tell what's going on.

>> No.8275421

>>8275387
>>8275386
>>8275382
So, it could be that Zun 'lied' to cut off from business a company that doesn't satisfy him.

>> No.8275424

Nobody is talking about this because nobody cares. Not even the Japanese gives a damn about this little shit drama.

>> No.8275428

>>8275396
not from doujins, but they act as ads for touhou merch...

>> No.8275429

>White Canvas
So a crappy store nobody uses wants to get some attention, what else is new?

>> No.8275430

>>8275411

Long Story short: Tasofro told ZUN White Canvas wasn't paying a portion of the royalties for their games.

ZUN told White Canvas, you don't give Tasofro royalties? Screw you! You don't sell my Touhou games!

Then White Canvas claims that the above statement isn't entirely true and they're trying to resolve the matter.

So in otherf words, legal dispute over Touhous

>> No.8275437

>>8275411
Welcome to the world of Japanese official statements.

I feel this matter is totally not taking it easy. I can't believe Tasofro and White Canvas went to court. Did they or didn't they pay the guys from Tasofro?
Now this matter will be a wedge between the real world and Gensokyo. Unless ZUN puts a lawyer on the next Touhou. Maybe she could try and make Shiki frustrated.

>> No.8275439

>>8275395
and there's people who still love Gundam and Eva. I can see guys obsessing over Touhou.

>> No.8275440

>>8275430
That's the story we needed to hear. Thank you.

>>8275429
Any reason for stating this?

>> No.8275443

>The new licensing contract presented by Kourindou Co. Ltd. was something very apart from the original livencing contract that we had signed with ZUN, and not something that our company could allow.

Well, if it's true that the copyrights of Team Shangai Alice works are owned by another legal entity, they are forced to accept the new contract terms, otherwise they have to stop selling those products, it's simple.

And I wonder how much money ZUN makes from the royalties.

>> No.8275452

>>8275443
>how much money ZUN makes from the royalties
LOTS

>> No.8275449

/jp/ will open portal to Gensokyo when Touhou will be dying. This way we will have Touhou forever.

>> No.8275456

ZUN: "Get your shit together or stop selling my stuff"
White Canvas: "NO STOP TALKING ABOUT US NOOO."

"Arguing in court" = Nothing being done for real. You NEETs need to stop pretending this actually matters.

>> No.8275462

>>8275443
>Well, if it's true that the copyrights of Team Shangai Alice works are owned by another legal entity, they are forced to accept the new contract terms, otherwise they have to stop selling those products, it's simple.
I don't think that's true. Or at least logic tells me so. If it were, wouldn't weaseling out of a contract be as easy as creating another legal person and passing the rights to 'them'?
White Canvas would hold the rights to sell Touhou products until whatever date was stated on the contract with ZUN.

>> No.8275463

White Canvas shits on ZUN for giving them shitty publicity. Do they not realize that their target market mostly loves ZUN? Stupid fucks don't know how to PR.

>> No.8275472

>>8275449
but touhou will be forever. just, I doubt that its still expanding. in the next years we'll see touhou community shrink little by little...I'm sure of it.

>> No.8275480

>>8275463
>>8275456
Generalizations, generalizations.
why?

>> No.8275485

>>8275452
That's wrong. If he did, he wouldn't have to have a real job.

>> No.8275484

>>8275428
Yes, but how many of the people that buy derivative works also buy the games?
Considering the amount of doujin stuff being made, the games should sell millions.

>> No.8275497

>>8275472
A little shrinking for the community would do it some good.

>> No.8275503

White Canvas sounds totally reasonable.

Was fucking stupid of ZUN to comment on something that's in the courts. You'd think after all these years he's have copped on a little.

If the courts decide against White Canvas, then you can bitch. Otherwise, you shouldn't say anything.

>> No.8275504

>>8275462
>White Canvas would hold the rights to sell Touhou products until whatever date was stated on the contract with ZUN.

Ah, yes, yes.

The terms of a contract, it's validity and duration cannot be changed unilaterally once it's signed by both sides.

At least that's how it is where I live.


So I suppose you're right, but doesn't change the fact that WC will be forced to accept the new terms when the previous contract with ZUN expires.

>> No.8275509

touhous are dead time to leave /jp/

>> No.8275517 [DELETED] 

The average fan won't care.
The ZUN supporters will hate on w.canvas
The WC supporters(?) will hate on ZUN.

Conclusion: WC doesn't get more Touhou, gets bad publicity, loses publicity. ZUN loses... what? Most people still won't care.

>> No.8275520

The average fan won't care.
The ZUN supporters will hate on w.canvas
The WC supporters(?) will hate on ZUN.

Conclusion: WC doesn't get more Touhou, gets bad publicity, loses money. ZUN gets... what? Most people still won't care.

>> No.8275536

Including business politics in Touhou makes me unable to take it easy... I thought ZUN used to be cool and only made the games for the sake of making the games.

>>8275437
>Unless ZUN puts a lawyer on the next Touhou. Maybe she could try and make Shiki frustrated.
Yes. Yesyesyesyes. Then finally I can have that Touhou Ace Attorney I've always dreamed about!

>> No.8275537

White Canvas is over
http://kohada.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/doujin/1324419984/

>> No.8275542

>>8275536
Oh, and also thanks for taking the time to translate this. Appreciate it.

>> No.8275545

>>8275497
normally i'll say yes, but in the case of touhou...
>>8275484
but you see, derivative stuff doesn't publicize games, but MERCH. Zun's money are made with copyrighted stuff. the games only work as backbone for his enormous market. what do you think, that every touhou fan played the games? I think its less than 40% of the total. in this same thread...how many "secondaries" are posting?
also note how secondary are the first source of money, considering their average age, economic capability in buying merchandise and number.

>> No.8275553

>>8275545
It's not like there are loads of official merchs, and even then ZUN obviously doesn't get royalties if they do exist right? Oh wait.

>> No.8275555

>>8275536
Success changed him. this is the confirmation I guess.

>> No.8275564

Nobody talks about it because it's irrelevant to neets on /jp/. People on here don't import doujinshi from white canvas, or attend events to buy ware from ZUN.

>> No.8275588

>>8275564
I've ordered a few things from there before actually, so it concerns me somewhat.

>> No.8275603

>>8275536
You mean this?
http://oldarchive.foolz.us/jp/thread/7805293

>> No.8275617

Who is next? The authors of hentai doujins?

>> No.8275619

>>8275603
just use warosu
http://fuuka.warosu.org/jp/thread/7805293

>> No.8275621

He dislikes that corporations use his property.
He approves of doujin groups using it.

There is a huge difference. You guys are trying to demonize him.

>> No.8275625

Why does ZUN's name sound so much like TSUN?

>> No.8275626

>>8275619
I would, but it has no ghost posts...

>> No.8275630

>>8275625
It would sound more like JUN to the nips.

>> No.8275632

>>8275603
But that one doesn't even have a real lawyer.

>> No.8275634

>>8275626
I thought we were agreed on warosu oh well I'm still gonna use it.

>> No.8275636

>>8275625
His name is Junja though.

Wait, what does ZUN's name mean? "順也". Alongside with?

>> No.8275637

>>8275634
ghost mode is down but its not like I use that anyway

>> No.8275678

It sounds like a lot of people in here are misunderstanding the issue. It's not about ZUN being greedy/overprotective of his IP/overzealous in his 'doujin only' rule/anything.

Doujin group Twilight Frontier (Tasogare Frontier, Tasofro for short; the group that made EFZ and the Touhou fighting games, among other things) didn't receive their part of the money that White Canvas got for selling their games. Considering it got to court, I'm pretty sure Twilight Frontier isn't bullshitting here - a store wouldn't sue a group over complaints they didn't receive pay, and a doujin circle like Twilight Frontier wouldn't bring a store to court unless they actually had a very serious reason for it (and a legal leg to stand on).

So ZUN heard about White Canvas refusing to pay Twilight Frontier and forbade them to sell his games.

I think it's great that ZUN stands up for other doujin groups like this. It's hard for a doujin circle to go against a store.

>> No.8275682

>>8275603
I always wondered about the first Gyakuten Touhou.
The page for Suikayasan only lists 2 (C76), Shin (C77, so it's not the first), Special, and 3. Where is the first?

>> No.8275690
File: 85 KB, 1024x768, ZUN%20(3).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8275690

>>8275678
Magnanimous in his drunken stupor.

>> No.8275758

>>8275678
People need to understand, aside from the nonpayment issue here, all of ZUN's complaints and rules have only been about keeping commercialization out of Touhou. He licenses some things but only on a small scale.

>>
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