Touhou gameplay thread :3

[OP !tX4X5rrku2 No.]

What, no Touhou gameplay thread? I must solve this situation right now.

All I have to say, is fuck you Imperishable. On Normal I use way too much bombs on Marisa, run out of ammo too quickly and die by the time I get to Master Spark, so I figured that maybe grinding a spellcard would be a good way to avoid having to waste ammo on deathbombing. So I fired up Spell Practice and proceeded to grind Milky Way until I could catch it 8 times.

It took me 63 attempts to catch Marisa's Milky Way on Normal.

I am seriously bothered by this and I'm resuming grinding as soon as I reboot from Linux into Windows because this is seriously lame ;_;

[Anonymous No.]

I can almost finish UFO extra. just need to learn how to not horribly fail to that survival card.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8262796
I always die or bomb at the very end because I'm an idiot and feel trapped even though I'm not

[OP !tX4X5rrku2 No.]

OP here. I just ground Milky Way again. This time I caught it 10 times in 47 attempts, elevating my capture rate to 21.27%.

All I had to do was realizing that the stars that come from the sides move diagonally downwards, and suddenly these damn stars became predictable. So much, that there was a time when the spiral of big stars started giving me more trouble.

[Anonymous No.]

I just played SA on normal and game over'd on Parsee midboss about 20 times.

Having learning disorder is suffering.

[OP !tX4X5rrku2 No.]

OP here.

ARGH WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH MY BRAIN FUCK IT'S LIKE DANMAKU STILL DOESN'T COMES NATURALLY TO ME AFTER ALMOST 2 YEARS OF PLAYING TOUHOU D:

I just did another spellcard grinding round, once again with Marisa's Milky Way on Normal. The first four captures were so easy I was like "bah, I shit on this piddly-ass spellcard". Then it was like my brain decided to ragequit from sensorial overload and I ended up busting my fucking ass to do the next six captures. I didn't even managed to do all the 10 captures because I ended up ragequitting after 9.

In the end, this session's score was 29 attempts, 9 captures, 31.03%. Compared to yesterday's 12% this sure as fuck is an improvement.

[Anonymous No.]

So I finally got around to playing ten desires. People really weren't joking about how easy it is and how stupid scoring is.

I don't have any particular motivation to continue playing ten desires, so I'm going to work on clearing the aya games in preparation for my lunatic 1ccs.

[Anonymous No.]

Hitboxes are fun.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8265319
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLMwivSRLQw

[Anonymous No.]

>>8264715
>D:

Please don't do that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8265332
I remember that video. VoWG is an amazing card. I'm considering trying to time it out on Lunatic.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8265357
I wish the other final cards weren't annoying. The rest are all slow random shit from all sides that I can't dodge freely. Except Okuu's, that's pretty fun too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8265375
>I wish the other final cards weren't annoying.
It's called difficulty, gameplay, and challenge. It's not Touhou without it. We all know it can get tedious and frustrating, but that just makes the reward better.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8265393
It's most fun to do one like Kanako's at the end of a game. It's exciting and tense but it lets some part of me relax that's been going the entire game. That part of me is also bad when I'm nervous like I always got when I'm about to clear.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8265332

Ahh, Kanako. I'll work my way up to you someday..

My latest touhou accomplishment is very nearly 1CCing Story of Eastern Wonderland on Normal. I really tried to do it on Hard, but I don't think I can manage it at my current skill level. I was lucky if I could get up to Marisa when it was on Hard, but I nearly made it to Mima's second form on Normal, so if I practice a little more I should have her beaten in the next few days!

[Anonymous No.]

>>8265332

Samefag from >>8265446. I forgot to mention; I totally love how the music slows down for that few second long beat just as the player weaves through the bullets, narrowly making his nearly impossible maneuver to the song of a few piano notes before the music kicks up in intensity again. So beautiful~

[Anonymous No.]

>>8264739
I actually know a few people that did blind runs of TD on Lunatic, 1cc.

They say it's a bad game because it's way too easy.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8266881
>They say it's a bad game because it's way too easy.
I had a blind 1cc of Normal, Extra, and Hard and got the Lunatic 1cc on my second try, and I don't hate the game because it's easy. It's all because of the bad scoring system.

[Anonymous No.]

Stage practice scoring is not fun.

[Anonymous No.]

Picked up PCB for the first time in...a long time.
All my meager skills have atrophied and I still can't take in the whole screen at once.
Despair...

[Anonymous No.]

I guess this is a good thread as any to ask.

I'm new to this whole arcade emulation thing. Which version of MAME is best for playing shmups? And should I get the normal one or shmupmame?

[Anonymous No.]

>>8269807
I've been using 0144b which seems to play just fine, but my replays keep desynching despite my efforts. If there's a better version I'd like to know too. Or this could be a problem particular to me.

[Anonymous No.]

Wake up at 4am.
Gotta play 2hu.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8269807
>>8269880

shmupmame has been optimized for shooters so it's best to go with that.

[Anonymous No.]

Should I consider getting an arcade stick? I do horrible with a keyboard.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8270623
I was using that but it hasn't worked ever since a recent windows update.

[Anonymous No.]

Bump.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8269737
Holy shit I'm done.

[Anonymous No.]

Fuck you, OP, for using that image.
I just failed clearing final B on Hard at Kaguya's last spellcard with Reimu solo. If only i had just 1 more bomb.

[Anonymous No.]

That feel when I don't play touhou because ragequit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8275256
We revel in the frustrations.

[Anonymous No.]

I'm trying to 1cc UFO Lunatic without summoning tokens.

I wonder if I could have beaten Byakuren without resources; I guess I'll never find out.

I did not do a very good job on this run. I did good on most of the stage portions, but I got wrecked by Murasa and Shou. I did a perfect Ichirin, but I put two planned bombs on Kogasa, because I was getting impatient.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8275554
Maybe I should have saved a bomb for this part. The dodging wasn't too bad, but those fairies totally caught me by surprise. It was the second row of fairies coming from the left that clipped me. I like how I dodged the first column. I had to watch the replay a few times to see how I did it.

[Anonymous No.]

Just 1cc'd IN Normal B with Marisa.
Miraculously didn't lose a life until Reimu's last card (somehow survived Spread for the first time ever).
Ended with 3 bombs left, after losing lots of lifes on some Kaguya spellcards I can normally clear.

On to Sakuya/Remilia! Hopefully both clears won't take 60 tries this time.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8275586
>Hopefully both clears won't take 60 tries this time.
What I wouldn't give to pass this in the next 60 runs: >8275554

[Anonymous No.]

>>8275586
>Hopefully both clears won't take 60 tries this time.
What I wouldn't give to pass this in the next 60 runs: >>8275554

[Anonymous No.]

I played Great Fairy Wars yesterday for the second or third time; the first in months. I forgot how insanely hard that game is. It gives you something like 10 continues, and I ran out on the last spellcard... on normal. Obviously the ice mechanic takes getting used to, and I think needing to rapidly press Z to shoot distracts me a lot, too. Still, though, a pile of continues for three levels on normal. Crazy

In happier news, after my MoF data wiped itself, I played through it on hard the other day while very sleepy, and got to Kanako with 4 lives. That was a nice feeling.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8275641
>rapidly press Z
there's another button for constant shooting in GFW, default C

well, I know your feel. Keep trying to clear all 6 routes, the Extra mode is so worth it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8275641
You can use C to shoot
But you have to use your little finger to press Shift which is also uncomfortable

[Anonymous No.]

>>8275647
>>8275646
Wow, now I feel stupid. Thanks, that's nice to know. It shouldn't even be that uncomfortable, since I normally press shift with both my little and ring fingers.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8275655
I feel that GFW is a good example for a touhou game where playing with a keyboard makes things more difficult. My pad works wonders in that game.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8275699
May I ask you what controls do you use for GFW? For other touhougames I mapped R1 as bomb, L1 as focus, and A as shoot (D-Pad for movement). But in GFW... I am not sure.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8275739
X for constant, square for shoot/freeze, triangle for perfect freeze, L1 for focus. Similar thing for the regular games and the photo spin-offs.
I move with the analog because my dpad is super shitty.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8275647
I only use autofire during bosses because I can't tap with both hands without something going wrong.

[Riz No.]

>>8275554
It's time for a blooper: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_t0LsguAHUo
What was I thinking. At least it wasn't LFS.

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[Anonymous No.]

How do you guys get so good at touhou and shmups in general? I know most of the time it's an innate ability, but supposedly it's also possible to become good at shmups through practice.

What I want to know is, how much practice will it take for somebody who ISN'T naturally good at shmups?

[Anonymous No.]

And I only had to get super super krunk to do it

[Anonymous No.]

>>8276631
Aww, right at the end... good job, though!

>>8276662
That's a good question; I'd like to know too. There must be at least some practice component, though. I'm pretty sure that no one who 1ccs stuff on lunatic is just naturally that good.

I know I went from a 1cc on normal in PCB being a big achievement to 1ccing hard a couple of times two or three months later, when I first started playing PCB (which was my first shmup). I think that as you play, you just get better, but I'm not sure if it's possible - at least at my level of innate skill - to have a good grip on lunatic without "practicing", rather than just playing for fun.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8276662
>I know most of the time it's an innate ability
Who told you this?
I've never met anyone who was born with any special bullet-dodging skills. However, I have seen people born with determination and the desire to improve.
>but supposedly it's also possible to become good at shmups through practice.
That's exactly it; it's all about practice.
>What I want to know is, how much practice will it take for somebody who ISN'T naturally good at shmups?
Everyone works at their own pace.
This post sums it up nicely: http://oldarchive.foolz.us/jp/thread/8112866#p8119396
And this: http://oldarchive.foolz.us/jp/thread/7860159#p7899709

[Anonymous No.]

>>8276662
Lots.
Lots, lots, lots, lots, lots.
Prepare to forget many important things and replace them with spellcard patterns.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8276754
I'm not the person you're replying to, but I wouldn't go that far. Even if people don't have inherent super dodging skills, I think there are people who have inherent the-exact-opposite-of-super dodging skills. I have a couple of friends who tried Touhou, and would run out of continues (in the games with finite continues, rather than the level restart ones) on easy towards the end of stage 2 or early stage 3. I was never that bad, even at the very beginning; if I was, I would have been discouraged from playing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8276662
It's not practice. Practice is just used to perfect score runs for the naturally good players and memorize patterns for the ones who aren't good. True "skill" at Touhou is mostly natural. Of course, you can practice the same stage thousands (yes, thousands) of times like I do and eventually memorize the patterns, but it's not fun and doesn't build skill. If you don't find yourself good within the first 10 hours or so of playing Touhou, you won't get good through extensive practice. In the end, it's about having fun (or so that is what every good player here says) but if you're not naturally good at shmups, you won't find the games fun at all, only frustrating.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8276754
Actually, I feel it's an innate ability mainly because I know quite a few people that have been able to smash through all the touhou games within about three weeks of practice. And I've been playing since 2005, still have yet to 1cc any of the games and I play constantly.

They said they only played 30 minutes a day at most. I play 5+ hours a day.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8276754
Being able to keep track of a couple thousand tiny objects at the same time with only 2 eyes isn't something everyone is born with.

>>8276859
I know how it feels, man. ;_;

[Riz No.]

>>8276820
That's exactly how I started. It took me weeks to get my first easy mode 1cc. Not being good at first doesn't mean anything, even if you are that bad.
Compare this: http://replays.gensokyo.org/download.php?id=15851
To this: http://replays.gensokyo.org/download.php?id=15767
And this: http://replays.gensokyo.org/download.php?id=17465
And this: http://replays.gensokyo.org/download.php?id=16551
And notice the dates.
>>8276829
Nobody plays this game without being frustrated. The skilled players like it. That's what sets them apart.
>>8276859
>And I've been playing since 2005, still have yet to 1cc any of the games and I play constantly.
I would bet that if I went over there and made you play properly you could 1cc any game on Lunatic within a week.
>I play 5+ hours a day.
Play more. I played for at least 12 hours a day for 6 months straight. But don't worry, all that is completely irrelevant. I was born with those skills, right? No, really, if you need help, post what you are having problems with, otherwise you aren't even trying. You can spend as much time on it as you want, but you will still be wasting your time.
>>8276870
>Being able to keep track of a couple thousand tiny objects at the same time with only 2 eyes isn't something everyone is born with.
Bring your face close to the screen, and only look either on your sprite or right in front of your sprite, depending on the situation. (It's usually the latter) That's how every good player dodges. And by good, I mean everyone who has beaten Normal or higher.

Also, that feeling of being terrible at the game never goes away. Everyone feels it, even the best players.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8276969
All you did is reinforce how you are better than others and how you believe that you should teach bad players how to play.

[Anonymous No.]

I seriously can't manage Stage 3 in MoF (lunatic).

I already perfect'd it on hard. But the mid-boss card on lunatic is fucking insane. 1 clear /30. This is going to take a whole while.

[Anonymous No.]

I'm having a hard time getting my arcade stick to work on the later Touhou Games. I have it working on most of the earlier ones, SWR and Soku using XBDC and Xpadder but I'd like to play all of them on stick.

Anyone know how to fix this.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8276870
>Being able to keep track of a couple thousand tiny objects at the same time with only 2 eyes isn't something everyone is born with.
If you're trying to track everything you're doing it wrong.

[Anonymous No.]

>Bring your face close to the screen
>That's how every good player dodges. And by good, I mean everyone who has beaten Normal or higher.

not really though

[Anonymous No.]

>>8277013
Okay, narrow it down to about 50 little objects that are close to or heading towards your character. Does it sound any more possible? Not really.

[Riz No.]

>>8276992
>I seriously can't manage Stage 3 in MoF (lunatic).
<-- This picture is for you.
>>8276996
>I waaaaaaaaaaant to beliiiiiiiiiiieve.
Better... how? You can be just as good as me if you practice. Also, would you rather have someone who can't talk from experience? Believe me, there are people who are much better than me around.
>>8277014
>not really though
Whatever.
>>8277033
>Okay, narrow it down to about 50 little objects that are close to or heading towards your character.
That's called "playing the game". It's called bullet-hell for a reason. I'm pretty sure that more often that not, you will die to running into bullets, as opposed to anything else.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8277033
50/sec, 10/movement

[Anonymous No.]

>>8277051
Fuck the bombs. I don't want to finish that stage knowing that there's one part of it I absolutely cannot manage to clear.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8276969
Hm, all right. I suppose I'll just keep at playing the games I enjoy. Although, what should I do if no superplays exist? I've always felt that copying superplays frame-by-frame was a cheesy way of getting better at a shmup. But if it's the only way to get better, I guess I'll start using them more often.

Also, one of the guys I knew used speedup to practice bosses in the games that don't have spellcard practice. It seems like it would be cheating to me, but he said it's one of the ways he got good at touhou really quickly. Since he could perfect the stages every single time without fail, he just skipped through it.

[Anonymous No.]

Guys ... guys

I haven't played touhou in a week and I want to play but I'm scared I'll have lost all my skills. What should I do?

[Anonymous No.]

>>8277062
You'll gain them back pretty quickly if you had skills in the first place. You might have a few stupid deaths at first, but you'll pickup again pretty quickly.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8277062
I was always much better after these breaks.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8277061
You're playing the wrong genre then

[Anonymous No.]

>>8277062
Play PCB on Easy. Alternatively, you can try SA on Lunatic.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8277074
You're not annoyed if you're like "oh, it's this part, I gotta skip it because I'm just too shit to clear it so I'll just use a bomb".

I am, so I'm going to practice. Bombs are for fuck-ups during spell-cards and knowing that I'm going to die, not for skipping the ones I can't manage.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8277073
Me too. Once I get rid of the short term shittiness. Coming at a problem fresh is usually good.

[Riz No.]

>>8277057
Trying to copy runs has never worked for me, especially frame-by-frame. You can use a replay as a guide, but you are much better off practicing it yourself. If you can't find a replay that's good enough, ask for it.
>Also, one of the guys I knew used speedup to practice bosses in the games that don't have spellcard practice.
It's not cheating unless you post it and lie. It's everyone's own business what they do with their game, it's just their way of practicing. I even thought about using savestates for practice, but I haven't gotten around to it.
>Since he could perfect the stages every single time without fail, he just skipped through it.
It seems logical. I guess it depends on how you look at it.
>>8277061
And I'm perfectly capable of perfecting UFO Lunatic without dying, bombing, or summoning tokens. It would just be a little difficult.
>>8277062
You will get them back quickly, you might even be better at first.
>>8277082
>Bombs are for fuck-ups during spell-cards and knowing that I'm going to die, not for skipping the ones I can't manage.
Okay, toughie.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8277051
>You can be just as good as me if you practice
That's not true for everyone. Here you go again, saying that every is the same and has the aptitude of getting "good" at these games. If we play this your way, I should have a lot better results for the time I wasted practicing on IN.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8277115
everyone*

[Anonymous No.]

>>8277082
My post was dumb, but yeah kinda not. Every game has some high peaks in difficulty that would need hell grinding to get good at. If I'm not getting anywhere with them, I write them off for the time being. If you want to do it perfectly, then alright, but do you plan on doing the whole game perfectly?

[Anonymous No.]

>>8277103
Gotcha, I considered using speedup practice for the longest time. It seems much more productive to just speed to the boss as quickly as possible to practice those spellcards I have trouble with. As far as superplays go, I only watched a few for the MAMEshmups that I've played.

Copying them has helped with dodging some patterns, but I still manage to have silly deaths. Running into bullets is way too common, it's probably something that will be way less common as I play more.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8277140
Nope, not like that. Mistakes happen everytime, I just want to feel confident at every spellcard that I COULD clear it, and if I know that I can't, I am really annoyed, that's all.

[Riz No.]

>>8277115
>Here you go again, saying that every is the same and has the aptitude of getting "good" at these games.
Here you go with another oxymoron. You should have seen me say, "Everyone works at their own pace". Also, you did not practice the same way I did, and I certainly did not say your results will be similar. I was speaking from my own personal experience.
>>8277140
>Every game has some high peaks in difficulty that would need hell grinding to get good at.
That would depend very much. I always said that the time to be perfect and score is after you have beaten the game. Beat it first, and then start working on improving. Until then, you are just hurting yourself. It will be much easier once you beat it the first time.

I still fail spellcards that I have cleared almost a thousand times. Sometimes, you just have to be in a good mood. Lucky for me, I'm always thrilled to play, although I have had some emotional moments.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8277166
Okay then, please, teach me.
http://replays.gensokyo.org/download.php?id=17585

Why can't I beat it? I'm looking forward to 1cc'ing IN on Lunatic in a week.

[Riz No.]

>>8277189
For one, you are using solo Marisa. Let me work with it and come up with something.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8277166
People don't all have the same makeup though. Unless they're lying, there are some people here who have been playing more than me with about 1/10th the results. Bad habits can't explain all of that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8277194
Don't use my choice of character as an excuse. She's the only one I have used in IN, I think a thousand hours of it with her should be adequate. In the meantime, waiting warmly.

[Youmu Konpaku !MyonHUTINA No.]

>>8277103
I really wish Touhou had savestates. There's a reason I've played Imperishable Night for many hours more than any other game.

Well, multiple reasons. The scoring system's the most interesting too, but that's sorta beside the point.

[Riz No.]

>>8277198
http://replays.gensokyo.org/download.php?id=17586

Marisa solo-kun, you are talked about. Understand that you are an extreme example. This isn't the first time I have helped you.

I never play this game, so I don't have too much experience. I finished with 3 lives, so it's not the best. It was a very interesting challenge, and I had a lot of fun. Some of my mistakes were very avoidable, but that's just due to inexperience.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8277305
Supposedly, you can get savestates with hourglass. But I have no idea how it works at all.

http://code.google.com/p/hourglass-win32/downloads/detail?name=hourglass-r81.zip&can=2&q=

[Anonymous No.]

I have a challenge for you, Riz. Go play DoDonPachi and see how far you can make it on just one credit. I will be very impressed if you can get to at least 1-5 on the first try. This is assuming you've never played it, of course.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8277189
Hello fabled Marisa solo guy. I have some questions.

Could I ask for a screenshot of your spell history for stages three and five? All of them would be nice, but those two will do.

I saw pulling off some interesting techniques during stage four and five. Did you discover those by yourself?

Were those techniques for the intent of scoring or making things easier on yourself? Both?

Why the rush to collect stuff in stage six? Do you care more about the score or getting a first 1cc?

[Anonymous No.]

>>8277189
Hello fabled Marisa solo guy. I have some questions.

Could I ask for a screenshot of your spell history for stages three and five? All of them would be nice, but those two will do.

I saw pulling off some interesting techniques during stage four and five. Did you discover those by yourself?

Were those techniques for the intent of scoring or making things easier on yourself? Both?

Why the rush to collect stuff in stage six? Do you care more about the score or getting a first 1cc?

[Anonymous No.]

>>8277386
>I saw you pulling off

Removed the post to fix this and pasted it back without changing anything. All right.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8277346
That's amazing. When do I start learning?

>>8277386
It's rare that I ever get to stage 4 without a game over.

I don't use spell practice much. I probably should, though. I just stick to normal practice more than anything else.

No, I watched YASU's runs.

I really don't care about score. I can't dodge bullets, so blowing up the enemy before they shoot seems much easier.

It's a bad habit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8277346
I swear you make this game seem so fucking easy.

[Riz No.]

>>8277447
>I swear you make this game seem so fucking easy.
That was actually not so easy.
>Go play DoDonPachi and see how far you can make it on just one credit.
I made it to the later part of stage 4, almost to the boss. I died with full bombs more often than not. I don't understand all of the game mechanics, either. That... was actually pretty fun. I'm going to read up on it, watch some replays, and see if I can beat it.

[Anonymous No.]

I almost managed to beat Suwako a while ago, I was kind of surprised but everything ended at that survival card. Survival cards always give me so much troubles.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8277585
Quite impressive that you made it to 1-4 on the first try. If you keep it up, you might just be able to 1-ALL by the end of the month. But, I warn you, scoring and chaining in DDP is extremely unforgiving.

Giga Wing is also a good shmup that you should try out, the reflect force system is extremely satisfying in my opinion.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8277424
Oh, I guess I was mistaken about IN's spell practice records. I thought the second set of numbers was supposed to record your history as soon as you view spell, not when the stage finishes. Although even if that were the case it wouldn't match up with your finished runs for any of the stages. It was wiped at one point but the other data remained?

I didn't think it through. After playing through the game I realized there isn't much in the way of tricks. I mean there's some minor things to make life easier, but nothing you couldn't sightread. I wanted to use the fact that you viewed YASU's (or some strong player) runs to ask why you didn't imitate some of his other moves to make various attacks easier. It won't work if you're not that confident in handling your character (but risking those positions during the stage portion says otherwise).

Well, what can I say. Unless I stand next to you and see for myself I can only say you're an exception. I'm terrible for giving up. Over 1000 hours. I don't get it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8277424

Use spell practice and use Magic Team instead of solo Marisa. It's like exactly the same, except you can focus to make familiars go away. It's not like the shot itself is any different (it goes forward in a straight line no matter what.)

http://replays.gensokyo.org/download.php?id=17590

I can't clear Lunatic on a whim (I have cleared it, but I can't do it every time or even often) and I exclusively use Border Team. I know very little about the Reimu fight and nothing about using Marisa Solo, or even Magic Team altogether. This was done in one try. If you've sunk 1000 hours into the game and you're still having extreme issues on Hard, you need to change the way you practice, or play, or something.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8277706
I heard IN had some problems with time counting and keeping track of records, I don't really know. I think that the in stage counter on the spell practice list counts only when you do normal start, not practice start. I honestly haven't looked at his replays in a long time now. I remember grinding stage 3 practice many many months ago until I could get it perfectly like his. Stage 4 and 5 I started getting tired of grinding like crazy, so I kinda trailed off from there. Stopped with IN for now. I'm focusing more on PCB lately, though I'm not making great progress either, but whatever. Maybe I will get over this barrier one day and start clearing the games one after another, but I won't look forward to it. For now, I just try to take it easy.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8277979
Do you find yourself having other problems in life when it comes to retaining information? One replay certainly isn't indicative of the norm for a player, and you said you usually get a game over before stage four. Do you ever feel character handling issues or a lack of concentration? Nerves? Fatigue (how soon into the numerous attempts)?

[Anonymous No.]

>>8278004
Asides from depression and nervousness, nothing else that could possibly affect my Touhou playing. I don't usually get nervous when playing the games, though. Lately, I just quit if I die once or twice before reaching stage 3, but that's due to frustration. And the depression comes for a seeming waste of effort, probably. I'm usually concentrated, but for some reason I always do much worse when playing the game normally as opposed to practice stages. And I have a much higher chance of clearing a spell card on spell practice mode as opposed to encountering the spell in game, normally.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8277979
>I'm focusing more on PCB lately

And I might have relatively little experience with IN but I'll be damned if PCB is going to stop you too. Awaiting your posts.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8277968
The cool thing about solo Marisa is that you can focus AND take out familiars, which is very helpful on some spellcards if you're not a no-focus machine. The not cool thing is that they're always blocking your shots. I have not played her enough to know how it balances out.

[Riz No.]

>>8278028
>Asides from depression and nervousness, nothing else that could possibly affect my Touhou playing.
Everyone gets that, sometimes.
>I just quit if I die once or twice before reaching stage 3, but that's due to frustration.
It's usually not a good idea to get addicted to resetting. It will keep you away from the later stages. Think of it like this: you could just as easily loose that life in stage 5 as well as stage 2, but will it make a difference in the final goal?
>And the depression comes for a seeming waste of effort, probably.
None of your effort is wasted.
>I'm usually concentrated, but for some reason I always do much worse when playing the game normally as opposed to practice stages.
Concentration is subconscious, you rarely focus on it. You can't sit down and be focused, you have to let your mind do that by itself. I'm pretty sure that everyone does better on stages in full runs than in practice mode.
>And I have a much higher chance of clearing a spell card on spell practice mode as opposed to encountering the spell in game, normally.
That's normal, too. Sometimes the spell practice cards might be slightly different than the ones in the game. I'm not sure, though. I rarely play IN.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8276829
>It's not practice. Practice is just used to perfect score runs for the naturally good players and memorize patterns for the ones who aren't good. True "skill" at Touhou is mostly natural. Of course, you can practice the same stage thousands (yes, thousands) of times like I do and eventually memorize the patterns, but it's not fun and doesn't build skill. If you don't find yourself good within the first 10 hours or so of playing Touhou, you won't get good through extensive practice. In the end, it's about having fun (or so that is what every good player here says) but if you're not naturally good at shmups, you won't find the games fun at all, only frustrating.

Wanted to bring up how wrong this post is and why you should never listen to this garbage. Life story time. I started playing Touhou in October 2008 with Imperishible Night and Subterranean Animism. After hours of playing and without even beating those games on normal, I fell in love with the series and bought PCB. More hours still into that, I finally 1cc'd it on Normal mode and unlocked extra. What a feat, I was so proud. My work has paid off.

Extra kicked my ass. I went back to Subterranean Animism. Dozens of hours went into that normal 1cc, many runs dying due to nervousness on Okuu, whenever I was lucky enough to survive Orin somehow. I pounded the shit out of that Extra mode, more and more time went into it and it became my first Extra clear. I used to think "how could people do this?" but once you do it, you relax and make less silly mistakes and are able to get better much quicker. "How could people do this" became "I know I will do this eventually." I got all the other windows touhou games, 1cc'ing and clearing their extra modes one by one, but not without lots of practice first.

Continued...

[Anonymous No.]

>>8278078
...Continued.

I took a liking to UFO late 2009. I had cleared normal and extra already, but was wanting more. I really enjoyed the game and wanted to improve how I played it. I skipped hard mode and started playing lunatic. It raped my shitter. Getting to stage 3 was a miracle, let along passing it. But I kept at it for months. I learned new strategies and improved my precision and bullet reading abilities with practice, and finally 1cc'd it after hundreds of hours in March 2010.

All it did was made me realize how much further I could improve myself. I could remember bullet patterns in Imperishible Night that made me go cross eyed, things I had no idea how people could read and dodge so quickly. But now I can dodge most of those patterns with ease, even on my off days, because I practiced these games and improved my skills over many months of playing.

The next logical step after my UFO lunatic 1cc was to try going for score in the game. So I did. Practicing different UFO routes and slowly replacing red UFOs with blues/rainbows as I got more consistant with my abilities. My scores slowly rose from my 281m clear to some 400-500m non clears... And eventually 1.95billion a year later, March 2011. Cock waving aside, it made me realize that I could keep pushing myself even further with more practice. Playing more difficult attack patterns than what I could handle made me get better (albeit slowly). I desired more. I started playing the game at 90fps (x1.5) speed. Just getting to Murasa was borderline impossible for my skills.... But I kept playing. I kept practicing. I 1cc'd UFO lunatic at 90fps on November 26th, 2011.


tl;dr Practice fucking works. Do not doubt your ability to improve.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8278082
>>8278078
Question time, when first playing SA, what stage did you make it to?

Because every single time I play SA, no matter how much I practice, I always fuck everything up at stage 3.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8278078
>>8278082
People that are capable of ridiculous bullshit like this are very rare.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8278082
I'm sorry, Naut, but you're pretty extraordinary, and using yourself as an example isn't going to convince these people of much.

Similarly, Marisa-solo guy appears to be on the other end up the spectrum. I'd really like to talk to that guy some time.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8278100
>Question time, when first playing SA, what stage did you make it to?
What difference could that possibly make? Why not ask him what color of underpants he was wearing?
>>8278106
>People that are capable of ridiculous bullshit like this are very rare.
People that have worked so hard are very rare.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8278078
>>8278082
Cool story and all but it's useless as a response to that anon's own experiences, which I am sure others share.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8278140
I would like to know so I could compare my own skill when I first started playing.

I probably won't get a true answer on this anyway, because good players tend to be assholes most of the time. But you know, it never hurts to ask.

[Anonymous No.]

I just pick one stage which I think trains everything I need and practice it many many times. Then I attempt the 1cc again. Currently I'm using Stage 5 EoSD on hard mode which has really improved my runs, except Patche keeps killing me.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8278100
Stage 3 was most definitely a large wall for me. It took me a long time to get past Yuugi with any sort of decent resrouces. Make good use of stage practice. Her non-card attacks all have tricks to them that can make them much easier to deal with.

>>8278106
I started off struggling with Touhou Easy/Normal just like everybody else. I certainly did not pass them in only a couple hours, it took a long time and a lot of practice. I practiced for a long time to become capable of doing the "bullshit" that I just described.

>>8278131
Ugh, but I'm really not. Like I said, I improved slowly over the course of years, constantly trying to challenge myself further and not giving up. Eating frustration for breakfast and using it as fuel for my next few attempts. Maybe people wont improve as fast as I did, or maybe they'll improve even faster with more efficient practicing techniques. But they can improve. Practice fucking works.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8278131
I'm right here. Unless, you know, you want to arrange an IRL meetup which I would have to deny.

>>8278140
>People that have worked so hard are very rare.
The butt-fuck retarded concept of "practice makes perfect" doesn't apply to everyone, you know. I really hope you don't expect that if everyone were to practice as much as he did, they would all be capable of the same achievement.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8278160
Come to #PoFV on Rizon.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8278131
>>8278106
I would not say that's extraordinary, looking at the dates and lengths of time. I'm not saying everyone can do it of course.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8278058

It doesn't balance out at all. How often do you need to destroy familiars while being focused? Meanwhile, Reimu and Kaguya, and stages are all made harder because you can't remove familiars with a button press. The only time you really need to kill familiars during a boss attack is Keine's nonspells (and maybe two of Marisa's, although that doesn't apply here), and you can do that easily before you need to focus for anything.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8278184
Yeah I guess. I haven't played it that much. It was really fun being able to completely neuter some attacks without any dodging impediments. MAlice cannon is too fiddly to use all the time for me.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8278149
I think I've discovered the flaw in your method!

[Anonymous No.]

>>8278160
>I really hope you don't expect that if everyone were to practice as much as he did, they would all be capable of the same achievement.
When did I say that? You can be better, you can be worse, but you won't get anywhere without practicing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8278209
No, no, let me figure out on my own.

But actually, somehow I feel like I would rather get through stages on fundamentals which is why I want to practice those. Well, it's sort of cheating since a lot of Sakuya's cards become immensely easier after you've seen them a few times, but whatever.

As a side note I used to have to bomb through Patchy's and Koa's non-cards one hundred percent of the time.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8278148
>good players tend to be assholes most of the time
Which good players have you been talking to. I can almost guarantee that they're just bad players posting anonymously.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8278224
It felt great finally getting semi reliable on Patchy's noncards. I still have to bomb them pretty often though. Like there's a method to it that I can understand but can't quite internalize, and then I wind up on the wrong side with a messy stream.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8278242
I haven't seen many outright assholes, but I have seen a lot of like.. I don't know, privilege of skill thrown around? Where people say something is really easy when most readers will find it very difficult and be put off. Or all the I DID IT AND SO CAN YOU bullshit .

[Anonymous No.]

>>8278268

That's not people being assholes, you're just a negative Nancy. Sorry!

[Anonymous No.]

>>8276679
>Extra starting lives penalty
>1.3M points

[Anonymous No.]

>>8278281
Yes, but the PoFV AI literally cheats, and he doesn't get many extra lives (if any) that way. I think it's fair.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8278268
>I haven't seen many outright assholes, but I have seen a lot of like.. I don't know, privilege of skill thrown around?
Guilty.
>Where people say something is really easy when most readers will find it very difficult and be put off.
Guilty.
>Or all the I DID IT AND SO CAN YOU bullshit.
What would you rather hear? I DID IT BUT YOU PROBABLY CAN'T SO JUST GIVE UP?

[Anonymous No.]

>>8278268
That does not mean people are being mean. Maybe they have some bad habits, but it certainly does not mean they are against you. If you have a problem with someone, you should talk to them about it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8278294
Nah I just meant like in this thread as an example. It comes off kind of tone deaf and prescribey. I do all that stuff too

[Anonymous No.]

>>8278268
Personally, I'm more bothered by the people that dickwave over Ultra no-focus no-bomb no-miss runs. And then they say, "lol you always play on normal, normal is piss easy, you'll never be as good as me."

It's less of them being assholes, and more me being extremely jealous that I'll never be that good in any case.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8278291
I was someone else trying to get at why anon might think good players were all assholes. I know they mean well usually.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8278315
>Personally, I'm more bothered by the people that dickwave over Ultra no-focus no-bomb no-miss runs.
I do this. These threads are for dickwaving recent accomplishments when I'm not trying to help someone out. Should I stop?
>And then they say, "lol you always play on normal, normal is piss easy, you'll never be as good as me."
This might be in your head, unless you're talking about that one guy that talks about how Touhou is useless without the Ultra patches. I think Ultra is fun and all, but that guy is just an asshole, and probably a liar.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8278322
Dickwaving Ultra when you know you're good is nice. But please, do continue to give advice to players that need it. Most Ultra players that I know personally always berate others for playing anything less than Ultra.

And for a real challenge for you Ultra players, once NMNBNF becomes too easy, you could always try to get all gold medals on Ultra!

[Riz No.]

>>8278315
>Personally, I'm more bothered by the people that dickwave over Ultra no-focus no-bomb no-miss runs.
It's not dickwaving, but I can see how you might see it as such. When people reach a significant milestone, they like to share it. These achievements often take massive amounts of effort, so it's natural for someone to want to share them.
I'm talking about things like this: http://oldarchive.foolz.us/jp/thread/7860159#p7899709
>And then they say, "lol you always play on normal, normal is piss easy, you'll never be as good as me."
Well, you see... Normal mode is piss easy. Don't let people talk down on you. If they make fun of you, they are not worth talking to, and they are certainly not worth being jealous of.
>It's less of them being assholes, and more me being extremely jealous that I'll never be that good in any case.
You don't have to be the best. Work at your own pace and be happy with your accomplishments. As long as you work hard, your accomplishments will still be very meaningful. Do what you think is right.
>>8278373
Have you taken your pills today?

[Anonymous No.]

Nobody seriously plays ultra patches, stop taking anonymous trolls seriously

[Anonymous No.]

>>8278379
Yeah, I realize that Normal is piss easy and I should just jump straight to Lunatic/Ultra. But it's just so discouraging getting game over before even reaching stage 2. Or in some serious cases, game over before even reaching the Stage 1 boss. But that really only happens in SA.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8278383
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5PDyKPq9Ow

>>8278386
>Yeah, I realize that Normal is piss easy and I should just jump straight to Lunatic/Ultra.
It might be easy, but that doesn't mean you should skip to Lunatic. Play what you are comfortable with, keep improving, and make sure you always having fun. Otherwise, why are you playing?

[Anonymous No.]

>>8278386
>Yeah, I realize that Normal is piss easy and I should just jump straight to Lunatic/Ultra.
No.
>Ultra
NO!!
>But it's just so discouraging getting game over before even reaching stage 2.
That's very normal.
>But that really only happens in SA.
SA is a hard game. Keep in mind that you can you can bomb stage 1 three times and still easily replenish your shot power on stage 2. It's only stage 1, you can always pass it. There is nothing to be discouraged about, you just need more practice. I still fail cards that I have passed over a thousand times, don't worry about it. It's Lunatic, and it's not meant to be easy.
SA has the worst stage 1 ever.

[Anonymous No.]

>SA has the worst stage 1 ever.
Oh the horror.

Though IIRC UFO Demo stage 1 is harder.

[OP !tX4X5rrku2 No.]

>>8278242
I really think those who post about how they can clear a game on Ultra without giving advice by themselves are actually people who can't even beat easy mode and use 4chan's anonymity to masquerade as a world class pro.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8278406
Anon, is it really possible to have fun when you're absolutely awful at touhou? I'm saying this as somebody who cannot clear Normal after years of playing. Hell, I've even played SA for 30 hours straight one time. You know what happened after all of those runs? I made it to Rin. Yep, that's it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8278581

The first time you play Touhou, you play it like Space Invaders. You move back and forth frantically. You die a lot.

Then you realize that you can move up and down, too. You complete EASY MODO.

Then you come to understand streaming. If the bullets are aimed at you, you don't move frantically; you move slowly to one side in a very cautious, streamlined manner. You complete NORMAL MODO.

Then one day you realize that you can see the spaces between the bullets instead of the bullets themselves. You feel like Neo as he saw the truth behind the Matrix. You complete HARD MODO.

Finally, you realize that Touhou is not a two-dimensional game; it has a third dimension: time. As your mind thinks in all three dimensions at once, transferring the Z axis of normal experience to a Z axis of time, you finally realize how to be in the right place at the right time to beat the hardest of spell cards. You complete LUNATIC MODO. You have reached Touhou Zen.

So have you figured out you can move up and down also? That's a critical part of beating normal mode.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8278629
Just, just wow!

I played touhou for several months already and just now almost completed my first hard (PCB), but your metaphors are so... nice!

[Anonymous No.]

>>8278672

Calm down bruh, it's copypasta.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8278672

I do agree with you about the hard mode metaphor though. One day it just suddenly...clicked. Was a surreal experience.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8278629
Then you realize to press shift for focus and beat ultra mode.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8278629
That was a good laugh.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8278629

Normal mode should also include:
You learned how to stream. You learned to press shift when appropriate. More importantly, you learned to let go of shift when appropriate. You learned how to redirect shots aimed at you so as not to create an unavoidable wall of bullets. You learned how to recognize inevitable death and bomb accordingly. You learned how to watch both waves of crisscrossing bullets at the same time. You learned how to pick out the best path in massive waves of bullets, and how not to panic. You got a basic feel for the hitboxes of large bullets. You learned how to keep on the boss to capture cards quicker. You learned how to stay still until something is going to hit you.

And a bunch of other stuff depending on which game was your first.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8278757

Whoops, meant to say "normal mode should include".

[Anonymous No.]

>>8278763
You did.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8278763

It's already in there you idiot.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8278757
Not first game, but I learned how to sit really close to the boss in TD for more blue thingys.
As Youmu. on Medium.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8278800
>medium
That's adorable somehow.

[OP !tX4X5rrku2 No.]

>>8278629
I already had Easy and Normal nailed down and grinding Marisa's spellcards actually made me nail down Hard, the part where you start seeing the negative space.

Touhou, however, requires the spatial thinking of an architect, and unfortunately, that is an area where I have a ridiculously feeble grasp. Touhou is literally making me learn about spatial thinking.

It also completely reversed my attitude towards videogames. When I was a kid I hated losing very much, I actually would get extremely mad when I lost at a minigame on Mario Party or at a race on Mario Kart 64. As a result I played everything on Easy because that would mean never losing. Over time I ended up thinking I was a pro because look at all those games I've cleared on easy mode, and because there were very few actual gamers in my high school class. Every now and then I would have some brief stints of playing shit on Hard or Normal, I actually got good enough at F-Zero X to clear it on Hard (although I was extremely cautious when switching to a higher difficulty), but that was it. Not to mention that I used to play mostly mainstream games, and these games are specifically designed so that even a drunken guido can clear them.

[OP !tX4X5rrku2 No.]

>>8278629
Then I played Touhou: EOSD, and I was punched, beaten, curb-stomped, slammed against the pavement, and dragged like 20 km along the highway.

But instead of ditching the game as being out of my league, that was a wake up call. I spent my first life on Rumia and had to continue shortly after beating Cirno by the skin of my teeth, yet I saw people saying "I can clear this game on Ultra Mode". I was like: this game is not impossible, they're the living proof! I have to get better!

Then I saw Tewi and Reisen mocking EASY MODO and I was like I AM NOT A FUCKING GRADE SCHOOL KID, I AM A GROWN MAN, AND I'LL SHOW YOU HOW I CAN BEAT LUNATIC FUCKING MODE!!! And then I decided: why not mix the Touhou school of "EEEHH MAJI!? EASY MODO!?" with the Dwarf Fortress school of "losing is fun!"?

Almost two years later I'm trying to clear Imperishable on Normal. I really want to clear a Touhou game on normal, and I'm getting better and better every day, even if it's just a little bit. And every time I play a new videogame I put it on Hard because you learn best if you fuck up.

>>8278682
It's still pretty much spot on though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8278853
>Almost two years later I'm trying to clear Imperishable on Normal.
> two years
> IN
> normal
Whoa... Why don't you try, say, "FPS Limiter v0.2"? First you walk through Normal IN on 30 fps. Then you can do 45 fps (my start point). And then you can do 60!

And then - who knows... 90 fps is possible too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8278848
>>8278853

That's fucking deep man. I feel like a better person now that I've read that.

[Anonymous No.]

Oh, homing Reimu, I wish I could quit you...

[Satorin !KOMEijI/Jg No.]

>>8278905
Too bad she's the only good shot in 13. Well, that shot is pretty much the best ever considering IN's version of it was OP as fuck,

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>8278917
I guess, but I'm talking about PCB. Or maybe MoF.

[Satorin !KOMEijI/Jg No.]

>>8278373
I'm pretty sure that it's impossible getting all the gold medals on Fairy Wars in one one even on hard. Or extra. At least, without a tool.

>>8278934
Homing in MoF is really where its at as long as you don't mind long bosses, Helping a lot for scoring and getting lives though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8279058
How does scoring work in MoF? And how do you get lives? I understood that even less than all that time orb shit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8279078
Touhouwiki bro, do you know about it?

[Satorin !KOMEijI/Jg No.]

Also, still have yet to 1cc SA or UFO on normal yet...but have beat PCB hard and can almost make it as far in SA in hard too.

I think I'm doing it wrong. Heck I could beat IN on hard if it wasn't for the stage 6 during stage 4.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8278782

Notice that I dropped the "also". Since the post I was replying to already mentioned streaming, by including that "also" I was effectually listing streaming twice, as I had mentioned it in my post. So I corrected myself, removing the excess word, and fixed a redundancy in my previous post. Sorry for being unclear.

[Satorin !KOMEijI/Jg No.]

>>8279117
Speaking of stage 4 IN, although Marisa completely annihilated me I somehow though some miracles capture double spark...

Too, Reisen is nothing compared to that on hard, not sure about Eirin, can't be any worse maybe.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8279078

Uh, what's there to not understand? Green things make blue things worth more points, blue things are worth points. If nothing is happening, blue things will be worth less points. Collecting items/shooting things prevent blue things from being worth less points. Get enough points and you get extra lives.

[Anonymous No.]

I don't play very many shmups, but I'm at least decent at fighting games. However, my friends are not so good, and I hear many complaints kind of similar to some in this thread, so I figured I would try to generalize what I see.

It's good to play a game a lot and practice, but what's important is that you practice correctly. If you don't, you can practice all day and never get better. A friend of mine "practices" a fighting game by trying out all of a character's moves many times, but doesn't understand why he loses. He doesn't see the bigger picture involved in an actual match.

Practicing with other people helps a lot. If you show lots of your replays, even bad ones, people can give you pointers on things you can improve on. They can notice you do things wrong that you don't notice on your own. You might find a pattern to be impossible to see, much less dodge, but someone else might notice that you die at the same point every time.

Generalizing patterns helps a lot for me, at least. When I tried to 1cc PCB on normal (which doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things, but still), I didn't memorize exact spellcard patterns as much as I tried to build a repertoire of ways to dodge things. I don't know if it makes too much sense, but I hope you know what I mean.

But really, I just played a lot, practicing little things as I went. I tried to learn how to recognize I was in a bad spot and bomb on reaction, as opposed to trying to go without bombs. I noticed what "bad spots" looked like, and tried to avoid them. I played more, and got farther and farther without having to use bombs, from there. I don't put enough time into shmups, but I really do think I can become good at them if I tried hard enough.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8279553
Replays help so much, especially for scoring. That shit is hard to figure out on your own.

I know what you mean with generalizing patterns. I noticed myself categorizing things when I saw them for the first time.