/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[None !ANNspam1Ao No.]

http://www.jhunewsletter.com/arts-entertainment/the-visual-novel-medium-proves-its-worth-on-the-batt
lefield-of-narrative-arts-1.2704291#.TsfpCsMr2dB

>This is put to great use in works like Umineko, a deconstruction of the detective genre that presents murder mysteries

>Most visual novels overtake traditional restrictions in word count. Umineko for example, contains the wordcounts of Atlas Shrugged and Les Misérables.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8122790

Someone just compared Umineko to Les Miserables.

If we hooked Victor Hugo's corpse up to the proper equipment, the spinning could power nations.

[Anonymous No.]

>a deconstruction of the detective genre

No. No, no, no, no. You're not going to bring this idiocy here.

[None !ANNspam1Ao No.]

>One pioneer influenced by Key is Romeo Tanaka. He used the nakige formula to psychologically shock the reader with mind-bending plots, causing them to actively think while reading.

>While Clannad is a love story, it's an all-ages work not containing a single kiss

>Yet it proved more emotionally powerful than works like Titanic, for successfully moving the reader without the forcing a reaction upon them.

>Like what those works did for their respective mediums, Clannad is considered visual novels's magnum opus for showing what the form could achieve

>The story started off slow, allowing the reader to bond with the characters, gently setting them in with calming music before hitting them with an unexpected tragic event. Never before had a work reduced its readers to such soul-wrenching sorrow, then lifted their spirits to new heights with a heartwarming ending.

>In 2011 Key released Rewrite, created by the pioneers Maeda, Ryukishi and Tanaka.

[HelenXonpool !a0yHhBwvus No.]

>>8122793

Maybe, if it's still spinning once the author of said article is done raping it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8122795
>While Clannad is a love story, it's an all-ages work not containing a single kiss
Easy to see he only watched the anime.
The game is full of kisses

[Anonymous No.]

>Like what those works did for their respective mediums, Clannad is considered visual novels's magnum opus for showing what the form could achieve
the pretentious levels are off the charts

[Anonymous No.]

Why is it everyone that considers VNs some form of high art is enamored with key?

It's shit, right?

[Anonymous No.]

>clannad
>good
I don't have a picture of Madotsuki throwing up with me, so have this picture of someone who looks like Madotsuki instead.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8122804
Key isn't shit, no.
And Clannad is definitely up there as one of the best VN

[Anonymous No.]

>>8122808

Keyfag detected.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8122810

would alice vomiting blood suffice?

[Anonymous No.]

's funny, cause the majority would agree with this writer. I love it when people try to be edgy and go against popular opinion purely for the sake of.

[HelenXonpool !a0yHhBwvus No.]

>!ANNspam1Ao
>spam

On closer inspection, troll radar's getting some tone here.

[Anonymous No.]

Key games are fine as long as you ignore said idiots.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8122811
I'm not a Key fag at all.
But anyone who isn't a peasant or some pretentious faggot would realize that Clannad is great

[Anonymous No.]

>>8122818
Mostly everything in that post ins wrong.

Why would you agree with him?

[Anonymous No.]

>>8122821

Sorry dude, you're a keyfag. Just saiyan.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8122818
I don't think the majority would agree that Umineko is a great deconstruction.
See the 50 that episode 8 got on Egs

[Anonymous No.]

>One pioneer influenced by Key is Romeo Tanaka. He used the nakige formula to psychologically shock the reader with mind-bending plots, causing them to actively think while reading.

>2003-09-26 18+ Cross†Channel

>1999-06-25 18+ Kana ~Imouto~ First Press Limited Edition

>2000-12-08 18+ Hoshizora ☆ Planet - First Press Limited Edition

[Anonymous No.]

>deconstruction

GDFSHFHSDFGHSDFGHDSFGH

[Anonymous No.]

i'm going to deconstruct your anus

[Anonymous No.]

>>8122829
It's a great deconstruction of reader expectations.

[Anonymous No.]

Umineko and Les Mis have at least one thing in common.

The fact that both Hugu and Ryu07 badly needed editors.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8122999
I meant Hugo.

[Anonymous No.]

Huguu~

[Anonymous No.]

>>8122999

[Anonymous No.]

>>8122817
>Alice

[「ロリあき」 No.]

>Clannad is considered visual novels's magnum opus
FUCK THIS STATEMENT.

[Anonymous No.]

>Clannad has become synonymous with works like Ulysses

[Anonymous No.]

>>8123275
Is that a problem?

[Anonymous No.]

>>8122795
>While Clannad is a love story, it's an all-ages work not containing a single kiss
WTF am I reading ?

[Anonymous No.]

>>8123335
Anime subtitles.

[Anonymous No.]

http://archive.foolz.us/jp/thread/7926353
I'm still waiting, you know

[Anonymous No.]

>Clannad is considered visual novels's magnum opus
that's not Kanon

[nght_of !kNGhTSucXc No.]

1º post

>Umineko
>Decostruction
>Classic literature

Oh man, here we go.

Clannad is not bad, as my first VN I can't hold a very objective opinion but I can't think anything wrong in it, maybe Nagisa the main girl.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8123352
>>8123352
Server not found.

[Anonymous No.]

Clannad doesn't have any kisses.
It doesn't count if it's practice.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8123401

[Anonymous No.]

>>8123368
>Because of the migration, some users might experience connection issues. Tell them to flush their DNS or to use Google DNS.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8123401
Clannad has a lot of kisses.
Tomoya and Nagisa kiss several times, he makes out with Tomoyo several times during her routes, Kyou, Yukine, Fuuko and Kotomi all have a kiss in their endings too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8122790
Why is OP such a shitposter?

[Anonymous No.]

>This is put to great use in works like Umineko, a deconstruction of the detective genre that presents murder mysteries

And then I got mad

[Anonymous No.]

>>8123412
But I already flushed my DNS.

[Anonymous No.]

>[Clannad] Along with Kanon and Air, these works are regarded as visual novel's Holy Trinity.
Dude, what?

[ZUN !barYV1VtIA No.]

>>8122804
>>Why is it everyone that considers VNs some form of high art

I think it's because we call them novels. It just makes certain nerds go into pretentious mode or something. Meanwhile the Japanese simply call these things "adventure games" for the most part.

Plus other video games genres can have easily word count just as big as a visual novel. So for example I don't think one should take a VN more seriously than say, an RPG of similar length or word count.

[Anonymous No.]

Jesus, I'm a huge Keyfag and even I cringed my entire way through that article.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8124271
When was the last time you read a book as good as Alternative?

[Anonymous No.]

Everyone should post in the comments and ask him "What do you think about the planetarium?"

[Anonymous No.]

Les Miserables is a story about the life of a great man. He himself used to be a scumbag, but was influenced by someone he met and decided to mend his ways. The man's personal qualities affect everyone he meets in his life, just like how he himself was affected. It is about awaking the intrinsic goodness within us all against the backdrop of a crapsack world of poverty, slavery and war. It is a story about redemption and forgiveness, and standing up for what you believe in, even if the law and the world are against you.

Please don't compare it to a story about killing people and easy death-related dramas.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8124320
>contains the wordcounts

[Anonymous No.]

>>8122790
Yes, because as we all know the only good visual novels are about time loops .....

[Anonymous No.]

>>8124336
We also have stories that make people feel like shit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8124292
"Good" is relative.
But while I have the basic need of pretending to be an intellectual, I have to admit no book has made me experiment what Umineko and MLA did.
To me it seems like while classical literature may be good for the mind and appears to be what one must read to become a 'cultured person', these japanese picture slides (sometimes with laughable porn scenes) just trump everything else by sheer hot-blood and awesomeness, which is something classical literature totally lacks, even if you look at the most fantastic works.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8124348
Thats like saying Star Wars was the best literature ever invented because I couldn't sit my ass down to read Shakespear. Not arguing one way or the other, but one could make similar arguments about film, television, TV series, anime and vidya.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8124348
I dare you to post that on /lit/.

[Anonymous No.]

>which is something classical literature totally lacks
Let's be honest, have you actually read anything beyond books forced upon you by your school a few occasional titles of your choosing? I don't think you've read enough to give you the right to make that HUGELY generalized statement.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8124348
It's funny because classic literature doesn't hold up much in the modern world. People simply like it because they are 'supposed' to.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8124361
You know the word they use to describe someone who thinks they know more than the whole academia despite not actually knowing anything ? Oh right, 'sophomoric'. Look it up.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8124348
>, I have to admit no book has made me experiment what Umineko and MLA did.
That's because you never read a good book in your life, you also probably have no standards.
You probably are some kind of guy who only read what school told you to read.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8124354
Who cares what /lit/ thinks? Obviously they're going to take offense to someone liking something more than literature. They're the literature board.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8124361
I don't think he meant true classic literature, but he used the word "classic literature" as an extension to all books.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8124368
Have you ever read/watched Shakespeare? Please don't tell me you think they aged well.

[Anonymous No.]

>umineko
>detective genre that presents murder mysteries

Hoo, better tell R07 it was a murder mystery then, because he was pretty adamant about it NOT being one episodes five and on.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8124348
Considering Umineko is pretty much one of the most terribly written shit I've ever read I would just say you have no brain/taste.
MLA too doesn't have much literacy merit but it's good in a blockbuster movie kind of way.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8124391
MLA succeeds solely because it spends 40 hours developing a nice and interesting cast of characters and kills them off in a most glorious fashion causing an extensive emotional response from the reader.

And that article is crap. If you compared visual novels to normal literature you'll see that there is almost no literal value in VN's. Of course we get some exceptions like Clannad which was a nice story about a family, or SNK and its whole view on justice or SG and its awesomely done science fiction but for the most part the entire genre is just total crap.

And im a huge keyfag but seriously, since when did kanon,air and clannad become some holy trinity ? WHAT IS THIS BULLSHIT ?

[Anonymous No.]

>>8124354
/lit/ are the ones who always go on about how eroge lack literary merit and other such bullshit here.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8124410
I bet they judge it by playing translations
>ISHYGDDT

[Anonymous No.]

>>8124410
How do they even judge literary merit considering they can't read Japanese.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8124410
Well, they have the right to do that if someone posts masturbatory (And false) VN propaganda.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8124352
Oh, but I only said what I said because I have read a few 'old western books'. Not many; I don't know shit about literature. But I have read some. And I have also watched some movies from all around the world, and I have watched TV series, etc.
That's why I dare say that only (a few of) these japanese picture shows can make me feel more.
What impression have Dostoyevsky and Poe, among others, left on me? 'Life is shit' and 'Oh, the horror' respectively. But Umineko and MLA? Goddamn, those made my heart beat a lot faster.
But as I said earlier, I'm only talking about the feeling of hot-bloodiness(?) that I have found only on japanese media. The claim that Culture equals Western Old Sages is something I don't dare even doubt.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8124348
>just trump everything else by sheer hot-blood and awesomeness, which is something classical literature totally lacks
That's subjective and an opinion.
That's also most likely disagreed by the vast majority of the world.

>>8124352
Bad analogy considering a VN is much closer (oftentimes just light novels with pictures and sound) to a book than a movie.

[Anonymous No.]

VNs are just a step above videogames, in the literacy ladder

[Anonymous No.]

Hey guys check this out:

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check google for proof

[Anonymous No.]

>>8124409
Kanon, Air, and Clannad are sometimes considered the holy trinity of Key, but not of the entire medium.

>>8124410
I don't think they're the only ones. You also have the "ero is holding back eroge" crowd, which is composed largely of /a/ immigrants and maybe some /jp/sies who still don't get it.

Personally I don't give a shit whether or not something can be considered to have "literary merit" as long as it's good. Good eroge have their own type of merit, which is distinct from literary merit but not necessarily inferior. Comparing eroge to literature doesn't even make sense to begin with.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8124381
Again, have you ever read anything that is not forced upon you ?

And truthfully Shakespeare should not be taught. Its literary merits can not be taught to people who are unacquainted with that kind of language and not used to forming abstract images based on words. It does not help that his story rarely takes place in reality, but in the minds of the readers and the characters.

In mathematics, if you try to read more advanced material, you'll be hampered by your lack of technical knowledge and know that you'll have to learn more before you can understand it. But in literature, one easily gets the illusion that one CAN read anything, because, hey, it's just English, right ? Nope, Shakespeare isn't something you read until much later on.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8124430
What part of everything said by every single person since the dawn of time isn't subjective and an opinion?
And I even took the work of saying it:
>To me it seems

[ZUN !barYV1VtIA No.]

>>8124438
>>VNs are just a step above videogames

Except they are video games.

Anyways that's the whole point to this thread. VNs are not above anything.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8124448
You're worst than people who try to find hidden metaphors that clearly don't exist.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8124449
Eiffel Tower is in Paris.
When I use a hammer to smash your head apart you are going to fucking die.

[「ロリあき」 No.]

>>8124448
The fact that Shakespeare is beyond the grasp of teenagers speaks volumes about the state of education...

[Anonymous No.]

I won't defend the 'literary merit' of eroge because I didn't get into them because of that at all, nor do I care if they lack it or not. But I will ask how many people denouncing them have even actually read a decent one before. Obviously not counting translations since we're talking about the literary merit of visuals novels not the literary merit of what a 21 year old college student writes in his free-time

[Anonymous No.]

>>8124453
What he said has a lot of weight, pal.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8124453
And you are no more than every American who thinks mathematics is useless because they suck at it.

[Anonymous No.]

This thread's almost as pretentious as the article it's making fun of.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8124453
>worst

[Anonymous No.]

>>8124456
Subjective because the space-time continuum, if not your own consciousness, is an illusion.
You can disagree with what people say, and you can say it's wrong, and that most people thinks otherwise, but playing the 'baww subjective' card is stupidly redundant.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8124465
It's just that one guy, really. Everyone in this thread is rightfully harping on him.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8124464
I'm not sure if you're trolling at this point.

I seriously hope you are,anon-kun.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8124469
I'm playing the subjective card because you're being stupid.

You say it, "lack's hot bloodedness and awesomeness". This is 100% opinion based on what a person interprets and even going by literature, is vastly ignorant and outright wrong. Also, you're being even more retarded going,
>HURR EVERYTHING IS SUBJECTIVE YOU CANT USE THAT ARGUMENT

Fuck off back to >>>/a/.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8124469
KEY TERMS!
OBJECTIVITY & SUBJECTIVITY
The difference between these two important ideas is the difference between fact and opinion. Facts are objective and provably true; however, if no clear facts exist about a topic, then a series of balanced opinions needs to be produced to allow the reader to make up his or her mind; opinions are subjective ideas held by individuals and so are always biased. If unbalanced opinions are presented as if they are facts, they act as propaganda or persuasion, e.g. a newspaper headline might state: "Youngsters are the prime cause of trouble in this area". This is presented as an objective fact but is clearly a subjective opinion.

An objective piece of information, therefore, needs either to be the whole truth and at least be unbiased or balanced, whereas a subjective point of view is biased because it is either not the complete picture or it is merely a viewpoint or expression of feelings.

When studying literature, it is best to be objective when you consider a text's qualities. Of course, literature read for pleasure should be approached subjectively as this allows you to 'be there' with the characters, feeling involved with the plot and so forth. But when you discuss literature for an essay, it is far safer to 'stand back' and see it objectively for what it is: no more than an attempt to engage and hold your attention, build trust in its writer, and persuade you to a way of thinking - the writer's way!

Looked at objectively, a text is no more than a 'vehicle' for communicating a persuasive message. This applies to characters and settings, too - all highly compelling and believable 'vehicles' for the writer to convince you to think his or her way!

[Anonymous No.]

>>8124472
I see multiple people complaining about their cheap entertainment not being on par with Mark Twain.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8124479
Anon can interpret that as you also leaving.

>>>/a/

[Anonymous No.]

>>8124486
No rebuttal.
So you were a troll as I expected. Cute.
Reported for shit posting.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8124491
This is 100% opinion based on what a person interprets

[Anonymous No.]

I love Umineko, but I also recognize that it's kind of retarded and that Ryukishi's writing style can be charitably described as "a fucking mess". There's a reason some visual novels are so long, and it's not a good one. Same goes for Nasu.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8124479
>Fuck off back to >>>/a/
Been here longer than you etc.
Also, you should watch Gekiganger III.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8124501
Objectivity is real. Your assertion that everything is subjective even when faced with evidence that it clearly is not is not your "opinion," it is just willful ignorance. Here is a fun game about determining the difference between objectivity and subjectivity, perhaps this will help you:
http://pbskids.org/arthur/games/factsopinions/factsopinions.html

[Anonymous No.]

>>8124509
Look how insecure you are. I can just imagine you looking that up. How cute.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8124515
I have it bookmarked to post in discussions like there. You should play it, it will really help you.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8124469
>Subjective because the space-time continuum, if not your own consciousness, is an illusion.

You raised an interesting, but already debunked, point. Those two examples are not subjective. They are facts. You can say we all brains in vats, and the universe was just created Last Thursday, and it does not matter. Because language exists to serve us, and nothing else.

Language used in everyday situations ASSUMES a lot of things. When I say "I see a duck" I do not have to stop and explain that I do it with my eyes, what a duck is, or who I am. I do not have to explain how the grammar works to you. And if you, the person I'm talking to, are actually an alien playing a game in which I am a mere NPC, it does not change the truth value of what I say because it is already assumed that I am talking about the world that matters to me and I do not have to stop to explain the various theories regarding the creation of my world.

So Eiffel Tower is really in Paris because that one sentence assumes a lot of things I do not have to speak of.

[「ロリあき」 No.]

Arguing about objectivity to an apparent solipsist is an exercise in frustration. Give it up.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8124320
Oh, come on.Jean Valjean wasn't actually a scumbag.

>>8124381
For the most part, I'd say yeah, they did. His themes are still relevant four/five hundred years later. The only thing I'll concede and say which has dated is his humour, which is just flat out awful to read now.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8124519
>discussions like there.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8124535
Go men no say for my typo, anon-san

[Anonymous No.]

>Umineko, a deconstruction of the detective genre
>decostruction
>not a just a shitty ripoff of "And then they were none".

[Anonymous No.]

>>8124543
>they
*there

[Anonymous No.]

>>8124542
>Go men no say
That took me ten whole seconds to figure out.
>>8124543
>shitty ripoff
>20 times longer

[Anonymous No.]

>>8124548
I was talking about episode 1.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8124548
Length of the source material is totally irrelevant to how derivative a work inspired by it is.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8124548
Considering most of that consists of trying to touch Shannon's boobs, being angsty in school, ... I would say we should stop thinking about how long (and unnecessary) Umineko is.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8124553
What you say is true, but even if 1/20th of Umineko were ATTWN word-by-word, I figure the rest of the text would make it something other than a 'ripoff'.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8124571
Obviously anon was just not being descriptive enough.
It is a ripoff of many things. So you can say it's a concoction of ripoffs.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8124571
>People go to an island.
>Rhyme/Epitath says everyone's going to die.
>People die.
>People wondering if there's a person hiding on the island or if the murderer is one of them.
>They all die in the end.
>Message in a bottle explains the case.

Same thing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8124587
>Orientation
>Complication
>Resolution
Suddenly all literary works are the same as each other.
Ancient meme picture added for extra flavor.

[Anonymous No.]

>someone who is obviously new to a medium is showering it with unwarranted praise

Wow, never seen THAT happen before.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8124543
Call it ten little niggers, you prude.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8124597

[Anonymous No.]

Once you learn about Dialectic Materialism, you can bullshit your way out of anything. Everything is subjective. End of discussion.

[Anonymous No.]

-Don Quixote

-The Republic

-War and peace

-The Divine comedy

If you have not read these you should you shut your mongol mouth about anything /lit/ related, seriously, it makes you look so goddman retarded to anyone with basic culture.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8124621
>Don Quixote
What a crappy piece of shit

[Anonymous No.]

>>8124621
entry level

[Anonymous No.]

>>8124621
Most Dostoyevsky would be better than War and Peace.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8124621
babby's first classic literature.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8124621
Nice babby's first shit. Why don't you read some real high-level things like Of Mice and Men.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8124609

[Anonymous No.]

>>8124627
>>8124631
>>8124635
>>8124639
>>8124644

boo hoo it's not REAL DEAL i dont like it

[Anonymous No.]

>>8124609
Medicine is not based on facts and it saves your life. End of discussion.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8124652
You posted Disney shit. Not my problem.

[Anonymous No.]

-Subarashiki Hibi ~Furenzoku Sonzai~

-Soukou Akki Muramasa

-Kono Yo no Hate de Koi wo Utau Shoujo YU-NO

-Muv Luv Alternative

If you have not read these you should you shut your mongol mouth about anything /jp/ related, seriously, it makes you look so goddman retarded to anyone with basic eroge knowledge.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8124621
>>8124662

[Anonymous No.]

>>8124621

War and Peace

hahaha

[Anonymous No.]

-Subarashiki Hibi ~Furenzoku Sonzai~

-Oretachi ni Tsubasa wa Nai

-Saihate no Ima

-Rui wa Tomo wo Yobu

If you have not read these you should you shut your mongol mouth about anything /jp/ related, seriously, it makes you look so goddman retarded to anyone with basic eroge knowledge.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8124662
Which versions.

[Anonymous No.]

This debate is pretty stupid.
Eroge and to a certain all ages visual novel have almost zero literacy value.
If I wanted thought provoking and good plot, I read a book.
I enjoy eroge because they have ero and HCG to unlock and isn't like my books. You have pretty pictures and nice BGM while reading. While when you are reading books, you have to visualize everything in your head.
I enjoy both medium and comparing them are stupid.

Faggots that go on about how ero are holding back the medium are the true faggots killing the industry.

[Anonymous No.]

Quite obviously everybody in this thread has yet to embrace the literary geniuses that are Shumon Yuu and Tanaka Romeo. You lowly English-only peasants are hardly entitled to an opinion.

[Anonymous No.]

What's the difference between eroge and books?

With books you have to go threw millions of shitty ones to find a good one.

With eroge you have to go threw about 100 or so.

Pick one.

[Kudryavka !!wEyYEw5OlKU No.]

>>8124896
>Shumon
I think Moogy is the only person outside of Japan who cares about him.

[Anonymous No.]

shumon can write but he's not romeo tier.

[Anonymous No.]

>Alex Mui
http://www.jhunewsletter.com/arts-entertainment/my-little-pony-now-20-percent-more-awesome-1.2682828
#.TsiLh9RKuDk
Ten bucks says he's OP.

[Anonymous No.]

While there are very few if any titles which really take advantage of it as good literature, the medium of visual novels probably could be used to tell a better 1st person story then a traditional novel, thanks to some of the elements thanks to it having the strengths of text based medium while also having access to audio (and to a lesser extent visuals, however this is of lesser importance compared to audio.)

[Anonymous No.]

While there are very few if any titles which really take advantage of it as good literature, the medium of visual novels probably could be used to tell a better 1st person story then a traditional novel, thanks to it having the strengths of text based medium while also having access to audio (and to a lesser extent visuals, however this is of lesser importance compared to audio.)

[「ロリあき」 No.]

>>8124900
I have no words for this...

[Anonymous No.]

>>8125039
You're incompetent xD

[Anonymous No.]

>>8125031
Actually it works both ways.

I don't even know why people in the West haven't started using visual novels as a cost-efficient way to produce good stories instead of dumping millions of dollars on movies.

Sure, good music might be the hardest part for a struggling indie house but generally anyone who can afford making one chick-flick can also afford to produce at least 10 uber-quality visual novels. I'd love A Deepness in the Sky as a visual novel. Imagine all the striking visuals and distant nebulae even a decent sci-fi novel can form.

[ZUN !barYV1VtIA No.]

>>8125031
>>tell a better 1st person story

I still think other game genres could do it better if you're gonna go first-person. Since immersion is what you want to go for usually with the first person viewpoint.

Still I think the main strength of VNs that that they're cheap and "easier" to produce. Not that they're better at telling a story.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8124447
> "ero is holding back eroge"
Those guys are being ironic, I think.

[Anonymous No.]

ero is thrusting eroge forward

[Anonymous No.]

>>8125099
Time is money. Movies are profitable. What takes a book or VN maybe tens of hours to achieve, something similar can be gotten in a movie and a sequel or two totaling around 5 hours. Not to mention you can get it over and done with them move onto the next movie, it is all very modular. Need to waste more time? Always another movie. Need to call it quits? You're only stuck watching an hour more until you get your ending satisfaction.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8125099
>they're cheap
lolno

[Anonymous No.]

>>8125105
meant to rely to
>>8125067

[Anonymous No.]

>>8125105
>What takes a book or VN maybe tens of hours to achieve, something similar can be gotten in a movie and a sequel or two totaling around 5 hours.
LOL NO.

You ain't gonna let the audience achieve any kind of insight by using movies. Unless you let them listen to a boring narrator who prattles on about the little details and thoughts of the characters. There are things movies can do, and things it can't even if you give it 100 hours. When things deviate from the physical and move into the abstract, that's where movies will always fall short.

And merely giving the audience the power to change the story changes the playing field completely.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8125101
The ones who use that specific phrase are, yes, but there are people here who really do think eroge would be better off without the ero scenes and CTRL through them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8125067
Because people in the west who were aware of the possibilities were too dead set on player freedom to write a decent story (or coherently, for that matter).

And the people who would be able and possibly willing to write something competent are technologically retarded.

[「ロリあき」 No.]

>>8125135
I do this for a good chunk of games, mainly because the eroscene writing is trash.
I stick around for voiced parts, though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8122795
>While Clannad is a love story, it's an all-ages work not containing a single kiss

Someone hasn't actually played it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8125135
I would love, if VNs had an all-ages option.
Then again, I'd never use it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8122790

[「ロリあき」 No.]

>>8125616
I wouldn't either, but I have the feeling I'd regret not using it after I was done with the game.

[Anonymous No.]

VNs really need to move past the high school setting.
Steins;Gate was rather nice. Umineko was fresh from that perspective as well (fuck you, episode 8).

Seriously, we are all getting older. At some point you don't want underage MCs anymore.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8125622
You are supposed to outgrow this hobby.
Can you really imagine a guy in his 40s watching keion and madoka?

[Anonymous No.]

>>8125627
Why imagine when you see them all the time on yaraon?

[「ロリあき」 No.]

>>8125627
What I can't imagine is myself outgrowing this in ten years...

[Anonymous No.]

>>8125633
This indeed. In fact I have my 10th jubilee of getting into this hobby in autumn of next year.

[「ロリあき」 No.]

>>8125639
Since it's always been a part I'd my life as far as I can remember, I have a hard time putting a date on it. The best I can do is when I started collecting things, so I'm coming up on 15 years. This was my only path.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8125627
I'm 42 and i love Madoka and K-On.
The only thing that shames me is that i still post in this place.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8125645
Well, I mark it by the release of the first "Banzai!" issue in Germany in 2002. That's when I first got into the whole manga/anime thing besides simply watching it as a past time on regular TV.
Then downloaded Hikaru no Go from that infamous FTP early the next year. After that started following subs late 2003/early 2004. Started posting on 4chan in May 2006. Early 2007 I knew enough Japanese to watch raws.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8125649
>42

Are you a wizard?

[「ロリあき」 No.]

>>8125650
Keep fighting the good fight.

[Anonymous No.]

>This work, Clannad, has become synonymous with works like Ulysses, Citizen Kane and Watchmen

[Anonymous No.]

It's pretty bad when even most of the actual fans of VNs wouldn't rate them as highly as this guy

I mean I really love video games and VNs, but I don't need to compare them to higher arts or fucking Shakespeare to justify liking them.

[Anonymous No.]

Maybe I am alone in this, but Shakespeare and other similar highly regarded plays and scripts are painfully boring.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8125714
heh, too DEEP for you?

go back to your Michael Bay movies, maybe those will better hold you attention, pleb

[「ロリあき」 No.]

>>8125714
Well, they weren't meant to be READ at any rate. I enjoyed them anyway.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8125732

This.

Shakespeare is actually pretty cool when you see it as a play.

[SekaiNoAi !MOEMOEqtAA No.]

excellent thread

[Anonymous No.]

>>8125131
>When things deviate from the physical and move into the abstract, that's where movies will always fall short.

That's not necessarily true. Look at Ingmar Bergman's Persona, for example.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8125985
Shakespeare is also cool to read, but only with some how-to-read right next to the text.

[Anonymous No.]

I believe this line right here is a metaphor. Defiantly.

I can't ask the author but I'm sure it's a metaphor!

Oh god this writing is so good. Old english is too cryptic for normal people. Good thing I'm special.

[Anonymous No.]

>The story started off slow, allowing the reader to bond with the characters, gently setting them in with calming music before hitting them with an unexpected tragic event.
>Never before had a work reduced its readers to such soul-wrenching sorrow, then lifted their spirits to new heights with a heartwarming ending.
>This work, Clannad, has become synonymous with works like Ulysses, Citizen Kane and Watchmen

How many books has he read in his whole life?

[Anonymous No.]

For the anon who asked if any modern literature is better than MLA, I've been reading A Song of Ice and Fire, and, uh, yeah, it does the kind of stuff I read MLA for better than it ever could.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8127067
I hope you didn't read a translation.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8127078

A TRANSLATION HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BASIC PLOT STRUCTURE, PACING, OR EVENTS THAT OCCUR.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8127090
It kinda does if they fuck up the meaning.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8127067
>A Song of Ice and Fire
Hahaha.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8127094

...No, no it doesn't.

>>8127097
>beloved fantasy series
>gets a TV adaptation
>becomes popular
>suddenly everyone hates it

Stay classy, /lit/.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8127101
Try thinking that over for a minute.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8127107

You're assuming that Ixrec's translation is generally awful. It isn't, and even if it was translated better it wouldn't change much about the game.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8127114
Why would you even play the translation if you can read the original?

[Anonymous No.]

>>8127125

I can't, but I do know enough Japanese to tell that he didn't fuck it up near as bad as he could have.

So yeah, fuck off with your 'untranslated games are better' bullshit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8127131
English only peasants can leave.
>>>/a/
>>>/lit/

[Anonymous No.]

>>8127131
Are you that new, or did you still didn't get what /jp/ is about?

[Anonymous No.]

I dunno about classic literature. I enjoyed Harry Potter more than every "classic" that I've read.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8127164
Me too, anon. High-five.

[Y10NRDY !kxh.1oTAkU No.]

The visual novel is another medium of art. Nothing more, nothing less. It has every bit the potential that traditional literature does.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8125710
It's seems like the guy is only making these crazy comparisons to try and get people interested in the medium. It's a school newsletter, not a literary magazine. It'd give him a high-five just for sticking his head up and trying to expose a format that's little known and in cases very worth-while.

[Anonymous No.]

http://vndb.org/t2210#9

VNDB discusses this highly regarded article.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8128168
> Excuse me, but did you just expect 4Chan responses from VNDB?
I feel insulted ( ._.)

[Anonymous No.]

>>8127164
That's because "classic" is just amerifat shorthand for "we're too lazy to change the curriculum with the times so we're just going to pretend only old books are good"

[Anonymous No.]

>>8128168
>It was quite some time ago, when I last checked any boards on 4chan, apart from /b/ and /d/. There were a few good comments with solid points, but most of them were haters, trolls and hopeless weaboos. Just as I remembered.
>hopeless weaboos
Wait, correct me if I am wrong, are we the one praising a japan dominated medium to high heaven or VNDB and cos?
Shouldnt they be the weeaboos.

[「ロリあき」 No.]

>>8128212
Slap yourself.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8122790
TL;DR
IS THIS A THREAD ABOUT "IF YOU WANT LITERATURE, GO READ A BOOK"?
Should I bother to open my kopipe grimoire?

[Anonymous No.]

>>8129231
That's essentially what it turned into, yeah.

[Anonymous No.]

Alex Mui

So this guys other articles are "South Park allays fans’ fears about termination" and "My Little Pony: Now 20 percent more awesome."

I can imagine he's one of those typical faggots you would find at cons.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8129221
It's not like he's wrong.

The article is bad. Period.

[「ロリあき」 No.]

>>8129279
I'm not arguing that at all. Did you even read what I was replying to?

[Anonymous No.]

>>8129295
I put a space to indicate I was talking about something else(The second sentence).

Can you give a reason for why he should slap his self?

[Anonymous No.]

It wouldn't be /jp/ without angry autists.

[「ロリあき」 No.]

>>8129305
Classic literature is more important than mere entertainment value. It's a window into the zeitgeist of the era it was written and the minds of the people it was intended for, never mind its literary historical value (who it inspired, etc.).
Thus, thinking it's valueless is why he should slap himself. Literature classes should be about more than 'Hey guys, just go read a good book.'

[None !ANNspam1Ao No.]

>I was the one who wrote the article, I was actually surprised someone found it and posted it here since I normally do come here often for suggestions on new works to read. I have actually been a fan of visual novels for about 3-4 years now and not normally a writer for this paper, I normally just draw cartoons and graphics. It was during this time whenever I tried to introduce people to visual novels they had a negative misconception about what they were so I was able to convince the Art editors to let me write an article as a way to introduce it to those who have no knowledge.

[None !ANNspam1Ao No.]

>Of course I am not completely happy with the article itself, there are a lot of things left out I wanted to talk about. I originally wrote it as one article (which does explain why both reuse many titles) but the editors thought it was too long and broke it up into two parts. Also after I hand it off to the editors and copy checkers, it is out of my hands and I don't find out about any changes they make until the article is published. The topic itself is a tricky one, since most people who google or think of VN always equate them with dating sims (i.e. porn) so it was a trouble to skirt around that. As well, as much as I am a fan and have read numerous VN it is still a tricky area to research. There are basically no resources or other articles about VN in English so I am basically limited to my own research which does not cover everything. The only real information is in Japanese which I can't completely read.

>There were also a lot more works I wanted to cover Moon works like Tsukihime, Fate/Stay Nite, and non-English translated Japanese VN, etc. But since I assumed by audience had no knowledge on the subject and due to my limited word count I had to reduce the article to referencing the few English translated visual novels they might be able to get their hands one and focus on one company, Key, even though there are a lot of other VN companies that have impacted the industry. I really would like to have discuss works like Saihate no IMA, Ef, and Muv Luv, but again limited word count and this article was intended to be just a brief introduction, not a complete history and research paper.

[None !ANNspam1Ao No.]

>My original paper was much different but since this paper likes to write from a “news” angle I had to change the tone a bit which was troubling. The editors, all of them who still are confused to what a VN is, even changed that to put a “spin” on the article. I think they even edited my Clannad section too much as well. I originally wrote an article about the Clannad anime which they seemed to have reinserted into this article, basically changing the original message I was trying to make. This may also explain why the Clannad part seemed to look a bit jumbled up.

>In the end I really did want to validate the visual novel form as a great medium of storytelling much like how film, comics, video games, and television have been over the years. And I really wanted to show the advantages of the VN and why people who have no knowledge of it show be aware. But truthfully I never thought so many people on the net would read this article since the paper is mainly print based. Maybe next time I should have you guys send me suggestions but I most likely will not be writing another article considering how the last four articles I wrote have been edited and distilled so much they lose the original message.

[None !ANNspam1Ao No.]

>Update: Also reading some other responses I noticed people were troubled that I presented a Western view of VN since I only addressed the few "great masterpieces" that have been translated into English and not all the other works. With any history of an artform it should cover the works that made lasting impacts (for film cover Birth of a Nation, Citizen Kane, Godfather; for comics cover Action Comics #1, Maus, Watchmen, etc). Works that define the medium, for example you probably won't see Twilight addressed in a piece about the modern novel. The reason why these works were translated in the first place out of all the many VN released in Japan is because they are great works which makes them prized, compared to the 90% of the other VNs. So of course written from the point of view of an American VN fan, to a Western audience, and only using Western articles and papers for resources, I am very limited on what I can cover so, yes this is basically an overview of the visual novel from the Western perspective.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8131819
>>8131833
>>8131843
>>8131852
What are you quoting?

[Anonymous No.]

fuck Derrida and VN translations.

[Anonymous No.]

Stop posting already fujifruit.