/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

Youmu vs Sanae
They both are stage 5 bosses and main characters twice.
Who would win in a danmaku battle ?

[nght_of !kNGhTSucXc No.]

The damnmakuest

[Anonymous No.]

Crack pairings thread?

[Anonymous No.]

>2011
>not having youmu and sanae as your otp
ISHYDDT

[Anonymous No.]

>>8102207
Okay

I laughed

[Anonymous No.]

Youmu is like ten times harder than Sanae (this is entirely due to Hell God Sword, the rest of her battle is really easy) so my money is on her.

[Anonymous No.]

who was the mid boss in an Extra? Right.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8102232
Chen and Kogasa

[Anonymous No.]

>>8102232
I wonder.

[Anonymous No.]

Power level from left (strongest) to right

[Anonymous No.]

>>8102232

[Anonymous No.]

Now that's a tough one.

Youmu has strong non-cards, while Sanae has stronger spellcards.

Probably Youmu.

[Anonymous No.]

Miko trumps half ghost.

Humans have the power to always fucking win

[Anonymous No.]

I'm sure they could find a way to settle their differences like adults, without resorting to danmaku.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8102384
Faggot normal detected.

Piss off.

[Anonymous No.]

Sanae has hardened the fuck up since MoF/SA. Youmu would have won then, but not now.

And here's the answer to the unasked question.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8102428
Enjoying Sakuya as a main character in ten desire ?
oh wait.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8102248
Marisa is stronger than reimu in canon (ending of 5). Fucking master spark could literally destroy whole world

[Anonymous No.]

>>8102454
O wow.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8102446
Don't get on a girl for wanting out of the game

[Anonymous No.]

>>8102454
Oh and the strongest defeated Marisa

[Anonymous No.]

All good choices.

[Yama !XanaDuh0e2 No.]

The Strongest...!!

[Anonymous No.]

Whoever wins
we lose.

[Anonymous No.]

They should be a team in 14

[Anonymous No.]

>>8102475
Oh god these eyes what the fuck

[Anonymous No.]

>>8102475
>>8102496
I can't imagine Orin be this moe. Maybe because Okuu took all the space here

[Anonymous No.]

>>8102496
They are pretty different from sea of uncriativeness.

I appreciate that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8102533

[Anonymous No.]

>>8102454
That's not canon, Reimu's ending is, and her ending in HrTP shows that her ying yang orb can literally destroy Gensokyo and implode the entire planet.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8102736
>ying yang

[Anonymous No.]

>>8102565
I think they really only look good on Youmu in that picture, but I agree that originality is nice. But originality does not automatically make it good.

[Anonymous No.]

i bet sanea would eat youmu's sperm!

[Anonymous No.]

>>8103952
Thank you for that insight.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8102736
Anything before EoSD cannot be count as canon. Zun's interview email pretty much tells you not to consider anything prior to EoSD.

Youmu will definitely win. She is not considered weak like Sanae, who is in league with the weak people like Cirno and Meiling in Hisoutensoku.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8103952
Kyon is not a sperm, he is a ghost.

The real question we should be asking is: How did Youmu die?

[nght_of !kNGhTSucXc No.]

>>8104937
Isn't she half dead?
What can half-kill you?

[Anonymous No.]

>>8104937
surprise abortion

[Captain Spicard !mOdChRomEs No.]

>>8104955
Everything that makes you half-stronger.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8104937
We've been over this she comes from a line of half-ghosts she never died.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8104934
No he didn't, he said he wouldn't pick up anything from the PC-98 games anymore, stop making things up.

And the PC-98 events did happen, notice Reimu talking about Mima in CoLA and also talking about when she fought Yuka in LLS during Yuka's PoFV route.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8105057
>No he didn't, he said he wouldn't pick up anything from the PC-98 games anymore, stop making things up.

He also says to ignore it in derivative works, so yes, that pretty much implies ignore things prior to EoSD. Here is the site: http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/ZUN%27s_E-mails
And you can search for the words: "Please ignore it as much as you can in derivative works."

PC-98 events only happens if it was referred to the later works. Please give me the page or link in which Reimu talks about Mima, because I do not remember that.
Reimu never talks about fighting Yuuka in LLS. They were talking about how they fought before. It is assumed to be LLS.

In EoSD there is also mentioned on Mystic Square, since it says EoSD takes place soon after Mystic Square.
But none of this is the point, the point is the email says to try to ignore events prior to EoSD.
This would sort of imply a sort of retcon to the prior events.

This said, I am not saying PC-98 did not happen, just not until it gets mention in post EoSD material. For all we know, the characters all exist, maybe under different circumstances, maybe not, who knows.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8105480
CoLA 25, Reimu mentions the evil spirit that invaded her shrine, we only know of one evil spirit that has done that. She also appears in one of Akyuu's albums if that counts, at least it shows ZUN's still remembers her.

ZUN asked us to ignore PC-98, but that doesn't mean a fact, only an implication. Without PC-98 Marisa wouldn't have gotten her trademark Master Spark from Yuuka, for example.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8105513
>CoLA 25, Reimu mentions the evil spirit that invaded her shrine, we only know of one evil spirit that has done that.

I can see why I did not remember that. CoLA could be talking about Mima or just any evil spirit. At the time I read it, I only know a little bit of Mima, so that evil spirit line never made me think of Mima.
We can assume it is Mima, but we cannot say for sure.

I am sure Zun remembers PC-98 characters like Mima, Shinki, Rika, Yumemi, Sariel, etc.

>ZUN asked us to ignore PC-98, but that doesn't mean a fact, only an implication. Without PC-98 Marisa wouldn't have gotten her trademark Master Spark from Yuuka, for example.

Not so, Yuuka is in Windows, so you can infer that Marisa probably learned it from Yuuka sometime. Either during a fight or Yuuka taught Marisa the Master Spark.

Asking us to ignore PC-98 pretty much means it is pretty close to retcon.
Since we should not be using PC-98 for instance, as proofs, because we should be ignoring it.
I mean how else can we read it as? We should be ignoring PC-98 events, so how do we use it, if we should be ignoring it?

But there are PC-98 characters that did get reintroduced, like Yuuka and Alice, but as for their past, maybe that past in PC-98 counts?
Or maybe their past is something else, I don't know. We know Alice is a human and became a youkai, for instance.
So, if we go by Mystic Square, Alice would be human during the time of Mystic Square.
Yuuka got introduced in PoFV, but what happened to Elly? Is she around at the dream mansion?

[Anonymous No.]

>>8105625
>CoLA could be talking about Mima or just any evil spirit

Oh please, it's clear whom it's a reference to, not that its stability as a fact matters anyway, it's what readers gather from it.

>Not so, Yuuka is in Windows, so you can infer that Marisa probably learned it from Yuuka sometime. Either during a fight or Yuuka taught Marisa the Master Spark.

So you're using your baseless assumption and treating OVER an established fact? I'm guessing you're only denying this out of a quirk of not being able to let any point done against you be left unresponded.

Both Yuuka and Alice have been shown to have met Reimu during the PC-98 era in the Windows games, Alice in her PCB dialogue and Yuuka in her PoFV dialogue. You can't be so arrogant as to just shoo them out of the way.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8105657
>Oh please, it's clear whom it's a reference to, not that its stability as a fact matters anyway, it's what readers gather from it.

And yet, I did not figure out it was Mima when I read it. Funny how this works huh? Not everyone will automatically think it is Mima, but some will.
I find these assumptions as facts somewhat disturbing, kind of like assumptions on Shinki's appearance, because Makai was in UFO or how because spirits were being discussed, Mima is involved.
Both, as we know, are proven false, as UFO is about Byakuren and Ten Desires is about Miko.

>So you're using your baseless assumption and treating OVER an established fact?

Now, this is too much. How is that fact, pray tell? Fact, Marisa can use Master Spark. That is all we know.
Everything else is assumption. How did Marisa learned it? Who did she learn it from?
Fact is something stated in a game or canon works.
Even in games, not everything is fact. Like for example, you cannot say Marisa's route is EoSD is fact, because we know Reimu is the one that solves the Scarlet Mist Incident, as mentioned in Perfect Momento in Strict Sense.

>I'm guessing you're only denying this out of a quirk of not being able to let any point done against you be left unresponded.

I left points unresponded, because it is unnecessary to respond to all of them. If you wish for me to specifically respond to a point, post that specific point you want a response on, then I will reply.

>Both Yuuka and Alice have been shown to have met Reimu during the PC-98 era in the Windows games

No, both Yuuka and Alice have been shown to know Reimu prior to EoSD. Do not mistake the difference.
They never once mentioned Lotus Land Story or Mystic Square in their dialogues. You may assume this is when they met, but do not assert that as absolute truth.

continued...

[Anonymous No.]

continuing from >>8105706

>You can't be so arrogant as to just shoo them out of the way.

I am not shooing them away. I am doing what is asked, ignore events prior to EoSD.
If a future game happens to include, say Mima, then I will recognize her.
As of now though, PC-98 characters probably exist, but what are their backgrounds, I do not know and cannot guess.
However, I cannot assume it is the same as PC-98.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8105706
>No, both Yuuka and Alice have been shown to know Reimu prior to EoSD. Do not mistake the difference.

Oh sure, the only two characters who happen to come from the PC-98 era and mention having met Reimu before means that obviously PC-98 never happened, don't even try.

>And yet, I did not figure out it was Mima when I read it. Funny how this works huh? Not everyone will automatically think it is Mima, but some will.

It doesn't matter if you didn't, it only shows your lack of knowledge about it (no offense), if you want to be so arrogant as to deny all of these obvious points then go ahead, not like you can assert your side with any facts either.

>Everything else is assumption. How did Marisa learned it? Who did she learn it from?

We know that Marisa is constantly stealing her techniques from various characters in the previous games, eg: Patchouli, Mima and Yuka.

We know that Yuka had a technique called ''Master Spark'', we know that Marisa did not have a technique called ''Master Spark'' previously, but she does now after MS, and both attacks look the same (a giant laser).

Totally not a coincidence huh?

[Anonymous No.]

>>8106350
>Oh sure, the only two characters who happen to come from the PC-98 era and mention having met Reimu before means that obviously PC-98 never happened, don't even try.

That is you being obnoxious then. You cannot seem to tell the difference between ASSUMPTION and FACT.
We may safely assume Yuuka and Alice are from PC-98 and their backgrounds are more or less the same as what was in PC-98.
However, we may NOT say that is FACT. I cannot reiterate enough the clear different between the two.
An assumption, no matter how well founded it is, is still an assumption.
Reimu never ever mentions she meets them in Lotus Land Story or Mystic Square respectively, only that she met them back then. We may ASSUME she met them in those places, but we cannot assert that as FACT. Understand the difference between the two.

>It doesn't matter if you didn't, it only shows your lack of knowledge about it (no offense), if you want to be so arrogant as to deny all of these obvious points then go ahead, not like you can assert your side with any facts either.

Obvious points are only obvious to those who cannot see the opposing view. I gave you multiple examples on so called obvious points being PROVEN FALSE.
Do you know the theme of Subterranean Animism? Did you know that they were talking about EVIL SPIRITS? Did you know that they were NOT referring to Mima?
Or in Wild and Horned Hermit, did you know that the EVIL SPIRITS in Reimu's house is NOT Mima? The whole reason for those evil spirits was because Reimu took gold from the hot spring.
Both of these are canon sources I am citing, so please do not state something that is "obvious" as "fact".

>We know that Marisa is constantly stealing her techniques from various characters in the previous games, eg: Patchouli, Mima and Yuka.

No, we do not. We know Marisa uses their moves, we do NOT know if she stole them or if they TAUGHT it to her.

[Anonymous No.]

continued from >>8108030
>We know that Yuka had a technique called ''Master Spark'', we know that Marisa did not have a technique called ''Master Spark'' previously, but she does now after MS, and both attacks look the same (a giant laser).

>Totally not a coincidence huh?

We know the Facts, but we do not know the reason. We see what happened, but we do not know the WHY or HOW. We may ASSUME the why and the how, but we cannot say they are facts.

Now back to my point. Zun stated in his email to ignore events prior to PC-98 on derivative works.
So while PC-98 events may still happen, we cannot assert them as facts. This is how stories work, PC-98 story most likely conflicts too much on the windows era story, thus it should not be referenced, because it causes a continuity error.

[Anonymous No.]

ZUN didn't even say to ignore PC-98 in derivative works.

And even if he did, everybody would ignore him.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8108268
>ZUN didn't even say to ignore PC-98 in derivative works.

>And even if he did, everybody would ignore him.

Let me copy and paste my message again.
Here is the site: http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/ZUN%27s_E-mails
And you can search for the words: "Please ignore it as much as you can in derivative works."

And no, I am not saying to ignore PC-98, that would be silly. I am saying to ignore it in terms of using it as canon reference.
It exists and fan works obviously reference it, so I see nothing wrong with it.
We can also use assumptions on PC-98 stuff too, but we cannot assert that it is canon. Assumptions with well founded basis.
Even assumptions, there are good ones and there are bogus ones, using PC-98 is a pretty good assumption.

[Anonymous No.]

As an outsider, the current discussion really seems mostly pointless. You both have merits in your points; while I find it pretty natural to canonically match PC98 Alice and Yuuka with their Windows counterparts and most, if not all events including each respectively, you cannot say beyond a reasonable doubt that they are factual. However, to dump over entire arguments on the basis that PC98 events "aren't canon", is pretty arrogant and incredibly picky. As a person who frequently argues and corrects people on canonical facts and logical followings, this argument is garbage. Neither of you is going to convince the other of whatever you're arguing because you've reached a logical impasse where neither of you can be strongly argued against.

That being said, Yuuka does not have an attack called "Master Spark", nor "Dual Spark". She has not actually referenced the attack's name, ever. Not that this has anything to do with addressing either argument, just saying.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8108030
>That is you being obnoxious then. You cannot seem to tell the difference between ASSUMPTION and FACT.

I never said it was a fact, I'm saying it doesn't matter if it's a fact or not, the argument here is what the reader (who knows about Mima) may gather, the situation was curiously specific, I pointed it out. It's obvious what the reference with Yuka and Alice's dialogue is to, but we're not discussing if it can be used as an argument, I'm saying it's just there.

>second paragraph

Why are you using contextually different situations? You're not proving anything you know, again, we're not discussing if it's an in-game fact, I'm saying ZUN obviously still remembers PC-98 and has used bits from there, whether it's actually implying that LLS and MS happened doesn't matter, it's the fact that ZUN made a reference.

And yet again, Marisa is known for stealing everything, and even made a book about every Touhou's spellcards. Saying that Patchouli and Yuuka taught her would mean that they trust her, which as we can see during the course of the games and in PoFV respectively, they don't.

Not a fact, but you can't say anything either, again, my side has the most backup.