/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

Hi /jp/, I'm planning on making a danmakufu or RPG based on Touhou some time in the future, I don't want to give away too much of the plot but it involves the Hakurei Border for the first part of the game.
I have a question for you guys, sorry for the MS Paint picture, but I'm wondering how the Hakurei Border correlates with the Hakurei Shrine.
Any input and help is welcome, thank you.

[Anonymous No.]

You won't ever finish it because you lack the motivation to finish it.

[Anonymous No.]

I thought this was some kind of focus test for a camera.

[Anonymous No.]

Perfect Memento in Strict Sense:
Reimu Hakurei — "Since the Hakurei Shrine stands on the boundary of Gensokyo from the outside world, one can go to the shrine from either world. But the two worlds can't be crossed between in this way. People from Gensokyo can go only to Gensokyo's Hakurei Shrine, and people from the outside world can go only to the outside world's Hakurei Shrine. It's said that the Hakurei Shrine seen from outside is a desolate, uninhabited shrine which no one visits."

So 3.

http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Hakurei_Shrine

[Anonymous No.]

It's the first one.

[Anonymous No.]

How the border separates Gensokyo from the outside world isn't really stated.

I personally would like to think that its a displacement meaning its just off our world by a a few dimensions, but still has a physical location.

I think that the shrine would be of the first type, but it looks different on each side of the border.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8076435
nope.jpg
>>8076436
Take it easy, I'm still thinking of ideas at the moment.
>>8076437
>I think that the shrine would be of the first type, but it looks different on each side of the border.
I thought that as well, thanks.
>>8076438
>But the two worlds can't be crossed between in this way.
The how did Reisen, Sanae, Suwako etc. get into Gensoukyou?
Also, thanks for the information.
>>8076440
I'm thinking it's either 1 or 3

[Anonymous No.]

>>8076453
Suwako/Kanako/SDM residents had the sufficient power to force themselves in and Reisen/Reisen II had lunar equipment to assist entry. What the PMiSS entry says is just that you can't use the Hakurei Shrine to enter.

Also, that border might weaken during certain times where supernatural events are expected to happen. Since Japanese phantoms appear during the summer between 2AM and 4AM, that would be suitable if you wanted to barge in.

[Anonymous No.]

http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Hakurei_Border

It's the third one.

[Anonymous No.]

Borders are typically described are partitions, for example when Marisa, Sakuya, and the Prismrivers flew over the impassable border to Yuyuko's area in PCB.

For the Hakurei border, it's also been described as causing people who approach it to get turned around and go back where they came from or end up in that village you fought Chen in, I forget its name.

Sanae and the mooninites and the draculas probably just flew over it though. It's possible to blow holds from hell into gensokyo from below so it makes sense to be able to get into it from above too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8076453
Reisen I can't say, perhaps there was just a hole and she got through. Since she's a species that doesn't exist on earth that sounds like a free pass to get in to me, though.

But team Moriya probably got in because they're gods and they can do that. It's not like they walked into Gensokyo, it's mentioned in the game that they brought their whole shrine and even the lake with them.

As for the shrine, I think it sounds like a mix of 1 and 3. The border lies on the shrine - It's in the same place in both worlds, but still two separate shrines.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8076465
Thanks for that. What about Maribel and to a lesser extent, Renko?
>Also, that border might weaken during certain times where supernatural events are expected to happen. Since Japanese phantoms appear during the summer between 2AM and 4AM, that would be suitable if you wanted to barge in.
Interesting, I screencapped it for future reference.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8076476
Mayohiga

If it really is a partition of a sort, then that's a pretty large portion of Japan that is pretty much inaccessible, I mean Gensokyo has its own lake and mountain(s), which are pretty sizable.

Though, the space problem could be rectified if Gensokyo's various regions are actually from multiple places at once, though maybe not since that'd cause weird geographical features in Gensokyo.

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

Nice little discussion we have going on here.
>>8076491
>>8076478
>>8076476
Thanks for your input!

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>8076506
>>8076502
Thanks for that, I totally forgot about that part haha.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8076510
>>8076502
Actually after rereading those pages, they just confuse things. Elsewhere (maybe even in those chapters) it says there is an empty unattended shrine that people see from the outside, and the one inside is completely different, yet somehow the same thing. I don't know.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8076491
Though, the space problem could be rectified if Gensokyo's various regions are actually from multiple places at once.

This is actually not unfeasible, as the Youkai Mountain was originally around Fuji, the Scarlet Devil Mansion (which might have entered Gensokyo wholesale instead of being constructed there) is presumably somewhere in Europe and the Moriya Shrine is in the Suwa region. As Gensokyo is for things that don't exist in the outside world, perhaps even legendary landscapes like Qaf or Penglai may drop in once in a while (though it's not unlikely that other regions of the world have similar Gensokyo equivalents to encompass their mythical locales, so in Europe you might have a mound entry into a realm full of redcaps, nixies and sidhe, all in form of little girls and kept in check with the help of the loli knight Reina Hacklei the Fifth.)

[Anonymous No.]

>>8076491
>Though, the space problem could be rectified if Gensokyo's various regions are actually from multiple places at once.

This is actually not unfeasible, as the Youkai Mountain was originally around Fuji, the Scarlet Devil Mansion (which might have entered Gensokyo wholesale instead of being constructed there) is presumably somewhere in Europe and the Moriya Shrine is in the Suwa region. As Gensokyo is for things that don't exist in the outside world, perhaps even legendary landscapes like Qaf or Penglai may drop in once in a while (though it's not unlikely that other regions of the world have similar Gensokyo equivalents to encompass their mythical locales, so in Europe you might have a mound entry into a realm full of redcaps, nixies and sidhe, all in form of little girls and kept in check with the help of the loli knight Reina Hacklei the Fifth.)

[Anonymous No.]

>>8076515
I don't know.

The way I see it, Gensokyo at the time of its sealing is more or less the same as the location it was in, all the trees and various geographical features.

but at that point, as two distinct places now, each went off in its own direction, in the outside world, humans moved on to become more logical and attached to technology, the outside shrine forgotten. Gensokyo kept its spiritual roots, the Hakurei line inhabits and looks after the shrine on Gensokyo's side.

>>8076523
Is the SDM the only example of something dropping in from a location outside of Japan?

[Anonymous No.]

iirc wasn't it the same with the prismriver sisters mansion?you know popping in

[Anonymous No.]

If I'm not mistaken, the weakest spot of the boundary is Muendzuka. Things stumble in by accident there, so I'm pretty sure someone who knows what he's doing wouldn't have problems crossing the border.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8076537
brb field trip

[Anonymous No.]

>>8076527
Marisa or at least her line is rather interesting. She has a Japanese (family) name, but is a distinctly western style witch, I am curious as to how her family ended up in Gensokyo.

Who has that speculative timeline of Gensokyo's events on the outside calendar? I kind of would like to know what people think was the era of time when Gensokyo was sealed off.

>>8076537
>someone who knows what he's doing wouldn't have problems crossing the border.

Just like Mamizou. Problem is, I imagine not too many know how to go about getting in there in the first place, and acquiring such knowledge would probably be exceptionally difficult

[Anonymous No.]

Please take into account this graphical representation of the nature of the border as presented in SaBND.

It's not just the shrine, Gensokyo in its entirety seems to occupy the same space as (a portion of) the outside world. What separates them is not a physical barrier. It's a conceptual one.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8076547

I think it was about 150 years ago, when industrialization arrived in Japan.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8076527
Well you could argue that meiling and some other characters are Chinese, and of course the moon people, although they live in Tewi's house. And that hyper probability whatever thing was able to enter, though they might still be Japanese.

[Anonymous No.]

Look at it this way.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8076560
Yumemi and Chiyuri are probably Japanese considering their names, where or more interestingly, when are they from, is unknown.

>>8076564
English please.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8076560
Japan has had contact with China for a long time, and they also share a number of mythological elements. So chinese demons/figures being in there at sealing rather than getting in isn't out of reason.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8076567
>>8076558
Just where is Gensokyo's timeline synced with the outside's? In both Yumemi's and Maribel/Renko's case, advanced concepts of physics were elementary school material. So either the events in the series happen way off in the future, or Gensokyo is completely independent of the outside world's timespace

[Anonymous No.]

>>8076578
The games are generally implied to take place at roughly the same time they are released, so summer games are in summer and winter released games are in winter. PoFV implies a reference to WW2 as part of it's story, which would put it in the present at the time it came out.

The world outside though, is implied to be a bit more advanced than normal, and also Reimu and Marisa have kind of sliding ages so they don't grow old. Hell, Sakuya was described as looking from 10 to 20 in appearance.

>メイドで、１０〜２０年程人間

But then Sanae is explicitly from the modern day outer world, so you'd have to take her as the best example of human's intelligence and society.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8076578
Things from the outside world (including gadgets, books, newspapers, and backup mikos) appear in Gensokyo all the time, and its residents repeatedly showcase a good knowledge of what's going on outside. And what they know makes it perfectly clear the outside world in question is our world.

Mary apparently time-travels for some reason (her notes were found in Gensokyo centuries ago), so the timeframe she's originally is of no use in determining the chronology.

Yumemi is from a different continuity. ZUN forgot about it long ago and so should you.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8076592
We really need a back up witch to even things out. One that isn't 'an original character do not steal'

[Anonymous No.]

>>8076587

This, the timeline coincides with the time the games are released.
PoFV references WW2 as happening 60 years earlier, during the last ghost flood. Since PoFV came out in August 2005, we can assume that the ghost flood from 60 years earlier was caused by the nuclear bombs in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

[Anonymous No.]

The Great Hakurei Border which separates Gensokyo and the rest of the world is the border of fantasy and reality correct?

If this is the case then the border would be weakest in places where this distinction is blurred. Places where there are unexplainable things or happenings which have not yet been proven to have a scientific answer.

I'm sure in these places the barrier is weaker and can be passed through if one looks hard enough

[Anonymous No.]

>>8076609
That's kind of why I sort of vote for Aokigahara being one of these said blur points.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8076578
Maribel and Renko are from the future, but in her dreams, she travels to the past for some reason, since her notes were discovered 100-200 years ago at the writing of PMiSS.
Ignore anything prior to EoSD, those may not be canon.

>>8076547
Gensokyo is fully sealed off by 1885, at the time of the creation of the Hakurei Barrier. It was already partially sealed off about 500 years ago.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8076611
...s-so if we kill ourselves in Aokigahara, there's a chance we'll end up in Gensokyo, right?

[Anonymous No.]

>>8076635
100%

[Anonymous No.]

>>8076635
I wouldn't know

I feel like Aokigahara and its popularity with suicide is something Yukari takes advantage of. Its stated that those who end up on the inside are those who have little to no tie with the outside world, by attachments or family members. A common one would be suicidals.

Perhaps those who are so desolate to the point of offing themselves would be more receptive to starting anew in Gensokyo than those who have lingering attachments.

[proREMIRIAt Elite Force Commander !rSDMROXTB. No.]

>>8076436
This, like the guy the other day said he was going to make a VN out of boredom.

Better finish what you start.

What happened to the guy who was making Cirno Racing based on Diddy Kong Racing?

[Anonymous No.]

>>8076635

try it out please