/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

Am I the only one who doesn't see Mokou as the GRIMDARK Touhou?

She's almost cute in the border team scenario. Only her tatemae is all tsun tsun, deep down she's a short-tempered little girl who just happened to live for a long time. Not to mention how she's portrayed childishly in bunkachou.

Pic related, what the fanbase see her as. It's worse than tsundere Alisu.

[Anonymous No.]

Mokou knows how to take it easy.

[Anonymous No.]

I have no idea what grimdark means.

[Anonymous No.]

Is your problem just that Mokou isn't happy in the OP picture?

[Anonymous No.]

I accidentally uploaded the small version, here's what Mokou looks like in that picture

[Anonymous No.]

She seems more calm and snarky in her dialouge in IN.
Mokou is actually one the nicer people in gensokyo, since she's on the few people who'll actually go out the way to help you if you're attacked by Youkai. She even lead lost rabbits back to Eientei in the Inaba comics, so she really doesn't have a beef with any of the Eientei crew except for Kaguya. And it's shown that Kaguya sends assassins after her, so Kaguya antagonizes her just as often as the other way around.
She's a canon good girl.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8038606

Yes. Mokou is perfectly happy with being a yakitori-yasan, she's just a little annoyed with Kaguya.

[Anonymous No.]

>Only her tatemae is all tsun tsun

Excuse me?

[Anonymous No.]

>>8038611

More androgynous Mokou

This is more uncanny than a female Fujiwara no Sai.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8038608
I don't see why all Touhous must be happy all the time.

Mokou has more things to be depressed about than most Touhous anyway, like her whole extended family being already dead, or guilt over being a murderer, or that she will have to watch everybody she knows except that one bitch die one day.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8038616

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/本音と建前

建前 is a fairly important concept in Japanese society.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8038608
She's not really that upbeat, even if she's not the gensokyo version of Spawn.
She rescues people but she rarely talks to them. She does like listening to people talk about themselves though.
>She doesn't seem to concern herself much with humans, and leaves without saying a word even when she rescues lost people.
>She will lead you to Eientei without fear of being lost or accosted by youkai.
>During that time, she'll remain fairly reticent about herself, but she seems to be happy to listen to others talk about their own affairs.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8038600
She's not really portrayed childishly in BaiJR, she just jokes around and then threatens Aya. It's actually kind of awesome
>One that has at the least lived more than you. Your great senior. So, wanna try it? Making crow yakitori with the firebird's flame?

[Anonymous No.]

Funny, a rock remix of Immortal Smoke came on as I read this.

[Anonymous No.]

>who am i quoting

[Anonymous No.]

>>8038614

I wouldn't say she's "happy," she's more content. She does try too hard to be the all-wise extra boss though. This is easily seen-through in the Border team dialogue, which I don't think is expressed very well in English:

なんと肝試し！
ああ、何時から人間はこんなに馬鹿に
なったのかしら？

こんなに狂おしい満月の丑三つ時に、

こんなに妖怪が沢山出る処まで来て、

事もあろうか肝試し！

妖怪に殺されなかったのが不思議ね。

それに死んだら、妖怪達に生き肝を
喰われる肝試しなんて――


She suddenly changes tone to a more girly and modern one:

むきー！
肝試しなんておかしいと思ったら、
やっぱりあいつの仕業なのね。

[Anonymous No.]

Mokou is Flandre level in significance as a Touhou.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8038608
She doesn't even look grimdark in that picture, just sober and contemplative, which makes sense considering her backstory. CiLR shows she gets that way when she thinks about her past.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8038650

Here's the original. Mokou is the only one who actually looks depressed.

Speaking of which... where is Kaguya?

[Anonymous No.]

>>8038602

Sasuke from the Orochimaru arc is basically grimdark.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8038658

Genuine question: If I put up a poster of that in my room, would people think that I'm a pedophile?

I'm decorating my room with classy objects like in this picture, but I want to camouflage its powerlevel.

[Anonymous No.]

Mokou is pretty badass either way, from threatening to roast Aya and calmly making jokes while the various teams contemplate eating her.
Remilia even says it's not worth taking her blood because Mokou isn't scared of her.

[Anonymous No.]

Personally I see Yuyuko as the GRIMDARK touhou.
Just because she doesn't mind being dead doesn't mean her backstory isn't sad.

[Anonymous No.]

Mokou is pretty badass either way, from threatening to roast Aya and calmly making jokes while the various teams contemplate eating her liver.
Remilia even says it's not worth taking her blood because Mokou isn't scared of her like a human should be.
She's cool as hell even if she's not a grimdark anti-hero.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8038683

Yuyuko-sama lives in a palace, fully staffed and with plenty of entertainment.


Mokou lives by herself in a bamboo forest and runs a yakitori stand ironically because that's the only thing she can do to amuse herself.

I'd say Mokou is a pretty sad character.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8038688
>Hakugyokurou
>Fully staffed castle
>wat
>its a shrine with a garden. nothing more.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8038688
Hey, she's got Keine to hang with.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8038694

It's a pretty big shrine.

>>8038695

Yeah but what do they even do. Do they take it easy together like Reimu and Marisa at the shrine?

[Anonymous No.]

>>8038699
In CiLR Mokou vists Keine and they talk about history and her past.
If you were a historian wouldn't you like to talk about history with someone who lived 1000 years?
Mokou's narration makes it seem that they get along pretty well.
"She was someone who knew a lot about the history of Gensokyo, and one of the few people who really understands me: the were-beast Keine Kamishirasawa."

[Anonymous No.]

>>8038683

This is just a ridiculous projection. She has plenty of fun, look at SSiB

[Anonymous No.]

>>8038699
Don't forget that the backyard is larger than most small countries.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8038716
>SSiB
please do not mention that piece of trash in my delicious Mokou thread.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8038758

I think you are mad because SSiB utterly destroyed your grimdark Touhou projections.

Also hands off Mokotan

[Anonymous No.]

In Cage in Lunatic Runagate, between drinking the elixer and coming to Gensokyo, Mokou wonders around for 300-400 years and kills everyone who crosses her path

[Anonymous No.]

I think Mokou fucked a turkey.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8038771
I refuse to accept that particular piece of bullshit as any sort of canon. It's bad fanfiction that only came into popularity because ZUN is a goddamn drunk who said "fuck it, why not?"

Yorihime and Toyohimi are blatant mary sues whose mere presence in the touhou canon bring the overall quality of the series down a couple notches.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8038778
The entire Touhou series only exists for that same reason. You're not very good at this whole "canon" thing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8038778

Why are you complaining about Mary Sues in TOUHOU.

I'm just utterly disappoint by your comment.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8038782
>>8038781
Because it wasn't ZUN that created them. If ZUN was responsible for them, I could swallow it. But no, it wasn't. ZUN just greenlighted someone's bad fanfiction.

Toyohime = powers of Flandre and Yukari combined. Apprehended both Yukari and Ran.

Yorihime = Single handedly defeated Marisa, Reimu, Sakuya, and Remilia after only being shown spellcards moments before. Also deflected the serie's flagship spell (Master Spark) with a sword swing.

Their characters are a laundry list of powers and their exploits are solely to show how much better they are than ZUN's characters. This is textbook mary sue.

Fuck both of the moon sues. And fuck anyone who likes Silent Sinner in Blue.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8038802

>Also deflected the serie's flagship spell (Master Spark) with a sword swing.

Maybe Touhous aren't strong outside of Gensokyo.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8038802

You didn't get the point of SSiB. It was to show that Yukari is a master schemer who doesn't have to rely on brute force to get what she wants, unlike the rest of Touhous.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8038802
but lunarians are supposed to be amazing. You're just angry your favorite characters lost

[Anonymous No.]

>>8038802
ZUN wrote Silent Sinner in Blue, genius, it was someone else who did the art.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8038802

>ZUN just greenlighted

ZUN came up with the plot, and got somebody to draw the manga because he's not a mangaka.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8038802

Yeah sure. The only Touhou canon that matters is what you believe to be true.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8038802
>ZUN just greenlighted someone's bad fanfiction.
Fucking retard.

[Anonymous No.]

So you think some doujin artist just mailed ZUN his manga, and he said "yup lets make this official."

[Anonymous No.]

Okay, guys, the horse is pretty thoroughly dead now.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8038802

ZUN co-authored SSiB, why else would it be canon

[Anonymous No.]

In touhou only what you want to accept is canon. If you don't like it - it's not canon for you. It still changes nothing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8039996
isn't that true for absolutely anything? you're still wrong

[Anonymous No.]

>>8039996
>>8038840

This. Why do people get so bent out of shape when an anon decides to talk about his own interpretation of a Touhou, even if it's not canon?

Who fucking cares.

>Mokou is not grimdark, discuss

>Excuse me OP, allow me to interject -- if you were to take a look at BAiJR 2005, pg 57 line X, the dialogue passage clearly supports the fact that Mokou is in fact grimdark and your interpretation is not canonically acceptable, therefore it is objectively false making you a gigantic faggot

[Anonymous No.]

>>8040032
because you end up with even more retarded reasons like "BECAUSE I THINK SO"

[Anonymous No.]

>>8040032
Yes, obviously what we need is even more personal opinion brought in to a discussion on the internet.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8040032

>Excuse me OP, allow me to interject -- if you were to take a look at BAiJR 2005, pg 57 line X, the dialogue passage clearly supports the fact that Mokou is in fact grimdark and your interpretation is not canonically acceptable, therefore it is objectively false making you a gigantic faggot


Why are you making imaginary quotations

[Anonymous No.]

>>8040061

Because canon laws don't apply to him. If he believes it's true, then it's true to him.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8040075
But that's just plain crazy.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8040032
>>Excuse me OP, allow me to interject -- if you were to take a look at BAiJR 2005, pg 57 line X, the dialogue passage clearly supports the fact that Mokou is in fact grimdark and your interpretation is not canonically acceptable, therefore it is objectively false making you a gigantic faggot

This basically is why I hate Type-Moon fags the most out of all fags on /jp/. They will turn even COMPLETELY SUBJECTIVE things into canonicity arguments, citing some untranslated bonus pamphlet on a soundtrack CD released only in outer Mongolia as evidence why your subjective personal opinion is false and you must correct it to match theirs.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8040093

But BAiJR is not an obscure reference. It's a widely available piece of literature that every Touhou fan would be somewhat familiar with.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8038684
>calmly making jokes while the various teams contemplate eating her liver.

I have to disagree with this part.

Seeing her Border Team dialogue just screams off mildly mannered little girl with mild tsun status who gets angered easily and gets poked at by Reimu and Yukari, then they make her cry afterwards.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8040266
I think people use her past an as excuse to dismiss her present.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8040266
I got more the impression she was joking rather than seriously scared, especially with the "manjuu sure are scary" comment.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8040266
I also would say mild mannered is a bit of a stretch, considering how blunt the rest of her dialogue is in IN and her conversation with Aya in BAiJR, and she's pretty calm in the rest of the extra scenarios. Besides, almost all Touhous have a little teardrop thing on their portrait when defeated.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8040503
Not to mention her post-defeat expression on her portrait looked pretty neutral except for the obligatory teardrop. It's not like she was begging for mercy, it was more "you guys are too much for me, I'm out." She clearly wasn't seriously intimidated and just wanted to get the whole thing over with.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8040521
It connects with her attitude of getting angered easily, besides, printworks generally use less sarcastic tones in dialogue than the games and Aya was surprisingly not trolling her guest, though she did make her stutter her dialogue with the whole forest fire thing.

Overall, I still think she's overinterpretated in contrast to her IN portrayal which portrays her as my previous post.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8040503
That's generic Touhou dialogue, it's clear which parts are sarcastic (mostly) and which parts are actual facts, since that's as far as seriousness goes, mere fact-stating.

[Anonymous No.]

>What! A trial of guts?! I never realized humans were this foolish... This night, during the full moon, at 2 A.M.?! In a place where all the youkai are raging! And of all meaningless things... a trial of guts? It's a near-miracle that you weren't killed by youkai yet. If you die, it's your guts they'll be feasting on--

>Ahh... I figured your gut-trial was rather suspicious. So, she was the one behind this... She's trying to get you to kill me? She always, ALWAYS tries to kill me! And she's the one who gave me this horrid body!!

This doesn't look calm to me, kind of reminds me of the easily-angered and emotionally-bothered tsun loli, she's both cute and cool, like Okuu.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8040618
Wait whatt, wouldn't you be pissed if someone sent assassins after you? Pretty normal reaction I'd say.
>kind of reminds me of the easily-angered and emotionally-bothered tsun loli
That sounds disturbingly like fanon Alice..

[Anonymous No.]

>>8040618
>She had and angry reaction, in regards to someone sending people to kill her over and over, therefore she's a super fragile moe tsundere loli
Fuck this, I'm out.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8040623
Not if a) You know you're immortal and b) It's been done plenty of times before. If she were the cool type she's been described as, she'd just pass it off as ''Oh, again? Whatever''.

Also she started shouting before they even said they were going to ''murder'' her.

Also danmaku can't kill people anyway, she only uses her ''ressurection'' as a spellcard gimmick like everyone else does.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8040633
>super fragile moe tsundere loli

How rude of you to add absurd emphasis on something, and it wasn't even stated, only ''reminded of someone with that kind''.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8040642
>Also she started shouting before they even said they were going to ''murder'' her.
Surprise at them going out into a monster infested forest in the middle of the night. That's not really an overreaction.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8040652
It is to me, considering that it's rare for the Touhous in game to actually get shout-levels of angry at something and that someone who is supposed to be ''cool'' is actually bothered so much by it, if anything, she should just have wondered normally or if they were ''asking to die'', like most other Touhous.

The way the dialogue is divided into sentences instead of paragraphs (in both of the quoted occassions) also shows a classic sign of blabbering/nagging, which Yukari actually states.

[Anonymous No.]

>>8040618

So basically she sounds like an older lady yelling at some stupid kids for doing some stupid dangerous crap.

And then they tell her that the neighbor she hates put them up to it, specifically to piss her off.

[Anonymous No.]

Not a fantastic thread, but it's not cats.