/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

Sup, /jp/ what do you do to keep yourself motivated in learning japanese?

I need ideas as for some reason, I feel like not studying right now.

[Anonymous No.]

eroge every day

[Anonymous No.]

bump, come on will you tell me none of you studies japanese?

[Anonymous No.]

>>7995329
Fuck you are right, I'll use that, any more ideas?

[Anonymous No.]

I want to be able to read Light novels, manga, and eroge because I'm tired of waiting for translations.

[Anonymous No.]

I'm translating a LN. But I haven't been able to for three weeks.

Feels bad, but I'm also in a class that meets every day so I'm not getting too rusty.

[Anonymous No.]

have some pasta

・console games
・Windows games
・anime
・drama CDs
・net radio shows
・doujin/indie works
・song lyrics from music from of all of the above
・comic books
・magazines, everything from news content to comic/novel serialization
・novellas, light novels, and novelizations
・non-fiction essay books, biographies, otaku culture commentary books, art books w/interviews, guide books, etc.
・every miscellaneous little bonus item attached to all of the above
・effortless navigation of Japanese online stores, including official download sale sites and streaming rental sites
・official websites/blogs
・the ability to write fan letters to authors/artists/actors/whoever, to write emails to radio shows and have them read on air
・the entire Japanese online fan community, everything from blogs to Niconico to 2ch—as a participant, not an observer

[Anonymous No.]

>>7995387
Holy fuck, this post is the shit.
>2ch
> Sending mails to mangakas
those two got me.

[‪ No.]

>>7995330
It's one of the more difficult languages to teach to yourself. Syntax is weird. Verbs are weird.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7995425
buuuullllllshiiiiit

[Anonymous No.]

>>7995425
It's a challenge, sure, but what you've just said is nothing but a mental barrier.

Motivation though, is quite often needed, 840 kanji and counting in my case.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7995434
I have never seen a good way to teach yourself Japanese grammar. That guy has a point.

>>7995448
I find I can't learn kanji outside of context. When I translate, I just pick up kanji as I go and then practice them regularly. When I try to learn "useful" kanji I wind up never using them and forget them much more quickly.

[Anonymous No.]

Kanji is really the only thing stopping everyone on /jp/ from knowing Japanese.

It should be, anyway.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7995556
Kanji isnt hard, look at this site:
http://kanji.koohii.com/
Really kanji aren't hard, but it still takes time.

[Anonymous No.]

Play the Idolmaster 2 demo, it's free on the PS3.

You just try fucking up a communication with Takane. The very moment she stares down on you like she's going to kick your ass, you WILL wish you had any fucking idea on what the choices you picked actually meant. Worked for me to go through today's lesson.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7995564
>>7995556
Once you realize kanji are built from radicals, the way that english words are built from letters, the easier it gets. Then you start recognizing radicals and get used to writing them, and you only have to remember how they're positioned in the complete kanji you want to write.

Grammar is more difficult, due to particles and okurigana floating around using the same syllabary.

[‪ No.]

>>7995556
Chinese struggle learning Japanese as much as native English speakers. Kanji is memorization. Everything else is conceptual.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7995579
Well my kanji knowledge is pitiful, and my grammar is too, but I'm pretty sure I know much more grammar relative to kanji, and would be more motivated to learn Japanese if it wasn't for kanji.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7995604
I'm starting to think, japanese are idiots, if they sold something like moetan but intended for japanese students, they would sell a lot.

Imagine the kanji mnemonics being taught by a mahou loli.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7995624
Most of the weeaboos don't like loli though. And the nips seem unable to realize that there is a market outside of weeaboos.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7995631
Then some sort of battle shounen, whatever.
Seriously weaboos would love learning japanese with animu, many even try it, with hilarious results
”あたしはジムです” lmao.
あたしはジムです

[Anonymous No.]

I don't know.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7995631
Probably because they don't really see that much of a difference between genuine weeaboos and edgy NEETs who go on about how they don't care for Japan but like their 2D girl subculture. Most weeaboo only care about anime anyway.

[Anonymous No.]

I would buy reverse Hori-ZUN textbooks.

That's how shallow and easily amused I am.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7995604
Just learn kanji as you encounter them.

jisho.org
nihongodict.com
translate.google.com

Those are the sites I use when I translate the LN I'm working on. Nihongodict helps me pick out the kanji by their radicals, jisho gives me a better definition, and google is good for turns of phrase.

I don't think anyone should learn Japanese just for the sake of learning Japanese. You should learn it as a means to an end, be that conversing with someone who only speaks Japanese, or to read/understand Japanese media.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7995564
I love this site for learning Kanji! (I have Heisig's first book as well)

However, I am kind of burned out around 1000 kanji... I wish there were more hours in the day.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7995715
>only studying 1000 kanji a day
pathic, LOL

ISHYGDDT

[Anonymous No.]

>>7995718
I meant ~1000 in my 'lifetime' of studying silly...
I typically add 10 a day while reviewing ~150 I'm already familiar with.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7995718
Why is /jp/ so shitty now? It wasn't even this bad during the summer.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7995726
Since long before you were born.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7995726
There's like one guy replying in that fashion to every thread. This doesn't usually happen.

[‪ No.]

>>7995726
if you think this is bad then you were never here when the boards just started.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7995726
I'll show you shitty.
*grabs asshole*

[Anonymous No.]

>>7995709
>or to read/understand Japanese media.

That's really the only motivation I have. Isn't that terrible?

I thought getting a jap course at my uni would help but ultimately it's making me more lazy and discouraging me far more than doing it on my own. I really have no reason to learn how to bow and greet people because I doubt I'll ever go to Japan (with the money I have now) and I only really want to read/watch VNs and anime, and manga.

Also how fast am I supposed to read things? In anime like Gintama I have to pause each time words come up to even be able to get a chance to read it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7995783
>That's really the only motivation I have. Isn't that terrible?
Not really. What other motivation would you have? Some shitty one like business or being a massive normal who wants Japanese women, probably.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7995631
Then some sort of battle shounen, whatever.
Seriously weaboos would love learning japanese with animu, many even try it, with hilarious results
”あたしはジムです” lmao.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7995783
>That's really the only motivation I have. Isn't that terrible?
No, that's an honest motivation, and it's the same one I have. Really, with the uni course, I'm in it for the grammar explanations and to keep me sharp when I don't feel like studying on my own. But when I do feel like getting to work, I bust it out like mad.

Learning the customs is useful from a translation/interpretation point of view because you understand the mindset. There is a reason they phrase things the way they do, much more so than you'd think as a native english speaker.

Reading speed is necessarily going to be slow at first. Go watch a kid just learning how to read. Takes them fucking forever to sound out the word RED. Just three letters takes them so goddamn long I usually lose interest before they string together R and E. So don't expect to read very fast at all for a long time, possibly even years. All you can do is practice.

The best part about Japanese is that the language is phonetic. If you get an ear just for the sounds, you can write down what someone says then just read it. Or write something, then sound it out. Much better than fucking Chinese which has the extra hell of being a tonal language. Speaking Japanese should come easy if you can pick up reading and writing fluently.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7995831
>The best part about Japanese is that the language is phonetic. If you get an ear just for the sounds, you can write down what someone says then just read it.

Yeeeaaah, that's all fine until you want to read and write for real.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7996049
Hahahhahhahahhaa.
Kanji sucks in that sense.
But fuck, what other language gives you the pride of saying " I can speak it"?
Japanese is the hardest language to learn for an english speaker, it's not french, not german, heck even chinese is easier.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7996104
Spoken Vietnamese and Cantonese are harder than Japanese for English-speakers.
Don't even begin to compare the difficulty in writing between Traditional Chinese and Japanese.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7996144
>>7996144

[Anonymous No.]

>>7996104
>But fuck, what other language gives you the pride of saying " I can speak it"?

Russian, hungarian.
Just two, staying away from the east.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7995330
But i'm japanese.

[Anonymous No.]

>what other language gives you the pride of saying " I can speak it"?
fuck the east, fuck the west

hymmnos

[Anonymous No.]

>>7996104
>But fuck, what other language gives you the pride of saying " I can speak it"?
LISP.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7996104
>Japanese is the hardest language to learn for an english speaker
0/10

[Anonymous No.]

>>7996289
>The Foreign Service Institute notes that Japanese is typically more difficult to learn than other languages in this group.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Difficulty_of_learning_languages#cite_note-4

[Anonymous No.]

Classy Japanese hookers keep me motivated. One day her slobber will be all over my cock, but I must first get over this hurdle.

[The Buttranger No.]

>>7996284
You mean Lithp, right?

[Anonymous No.]

>>7996725
WHATA FUCK MAN xD i just fall of my chair kuz i couldnt and i CANT stop laugh xDXDXDXDXDDDDDDDDDDDDDXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD OMGOSH DDDDDXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD DDDDDD LOOOOOOOOOLLLLL THIS IS A SHIT XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDXDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD A BIG ONE XDDDDDDDD A GRAT ONE XXXXXXDDDD CONGRATS MAN XDD

[Anonymous No.]

Read some (H-)doujin in Japanese, bonus points if the pictures are funny.
Doesn't matter if you don't understand everything/lack readings, in any case my motivation to study increases a great deal this way.

Anyway, what I usually do to keep myself on tracks and avoid getting demotivated:
1)Entertainement (written works, websites, blogs, videos etc.)
2)Anki reviews (RTK, vocab, sentences)
3)Learning (grammar, vocab and sentences on paper)
4)Entertainement (don't forget why you are learning such a language)

The most tedious phase when studying japanese is jouyou kanji learning, like math, it's hard and boring if one doesn't know what to do with it at the end of the day.
Practising my handwriting in order to make visually pleasant characters worked for me.

[wtH !!geIKdOh6/lP No.]

AJATT like HELL

[Anonymous No.]

I'm playing School Days now and having a blast. This is the first VN that I play untranslated and without the help of a translated version (before this, I played the entire Clannad with the game in Japanese and English opened at the same time to test and correct my work, took several months to finish).

Anyway, the grammar and vocab of School Days is really easy. I can read it in almost real time, only needing to pause at really long sentences. Can you guys recommend me other VNs with similarly easy writing?

[Anonymous No.]

>>7996924
I'm sort of doing that... I want to study calligraphy to not forget the kanji, it would be awesome to transcribe poems, or write a little book with rice paper, seriously.

And one shit I forgot:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdChdA-hp_8
This shit inspires me, I'm on the half of it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7997012
Amagami's really easy. KimiKiss too, I guess, though I haven't played it.

>>7996924
It sure would be nice if knowing just the jouyou kanji would be enough. Sadly, it isn't. At all.

[Anonymous No.]

I actually find it surprisingly hard to motivate myself after getting to the point where reading is the most productive way to study. It's too hard to feel like entertainment, and too easy to feel like studying, so I can neither feel motivated because it's really fun, nor feel motivated because I feel like I'm making good progress.

Or is the feeling of not progressing enough a sign that I'm going it wrong?

[Anonymous No.]

Lots of coffee does the trick for me.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7997814
There aren't many new radicals outside the jouyou kanji, though. They are mostly just new combinations of radicals that you should already know. And most of the kanji that are not in jouyou and are commonly used are quite easy and simple.

[Anonymous No.]

Don't motivate yourself, OP, just read some shit, like Rance Quest etc, download some cards in Anki.

Also, I don't get all this ruckus about jap language being hard and everything. It's relatively easy, unlike some fucking german language at least.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7997911
>Also, I don't get all this ruckus about jap language being hard and everything.

It is the noise generated by all those who tried half-assedly and failed splendidly, I think.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7997911
It depends on what your definition of easy is. Sure, structurally Japanese is a lot easier than a lot of European languages. However, it's completely unrelated and the writing system is completely new. I'm sure you could learn any European language in 1/10 of the time it takes to learn Japanese. Japanese may not be hard to grasp per se, but the amount of pure memorization required is tremendous. After Chinese I'd say Japanese is the language that requires the most effort to learn.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7997852
I quess it's same for me. I've done tons of anki for vocab and can grasp most of the grammar, but even SRSing for 20 minutes a day feels really boring and I haven't even added any new cards for some time, because I don't feel I'm really learning anything new.

I'm currently switching between I/O and euphoria since they're the only VNs able to keep my interest, but damn does the slowness of it all eat away the otherwise wonderful reading experience. Though I did manage to finish one route in School Days, but it felt really mediocre and I'm not really interested in another run.

>>7997911
>It's relatively easy
Agreed. I was actually surprised how easy learning jap was when I started studying. Especially the grammar is really easy to grasp.
It's the three different "alphabets" that confuse most beginners and while the amount of kanji you have to memorize is a shit load, it's not what I could ever call hard. Very *time consuming*, but NOT hard.

[Anonymous No.]

Eroge, games, books, music, shows.

make your hobbies in Japanese as much as you can.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7998005
>However, it's completely unrelated and the writing system is completely new
No it's not.
Japanese today is very English dependent, also words like arigato(thank you) didn't exist in Japan, it was brought by the portuguese.

Japanese is far from being a hard language.
Try basque or portuguese.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7998060
That thing about arigatou being Portuguese isn't actually true. It's just a common misconception.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7998069
Yeah no.
The Japanese didn't have any thanking word before the Portuguese had contact with them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7998060
I know Latin thank you very much, I can read most Romance languages and comprehend the gist of it without much trouble. Also you completely missed my point, I never implied structural difficulty. The difficulty stems from the pure amount of memorization that is required vocab and kanji wise. Time wise Japanese is much larger investment than anything besides Chinese really.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7998090
Is Latin worth the time investment? I kinda want to read some untranslated Livy some day. Obviously not as much as I want to read eroge, but the desire exists.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7998042
On this topic, also do things like switch your OS language to Japanese, use Japanese language version of all you programs that have them (Web browser, word processer, etc.) set the display language to Japanese on any electronic devices you own that have it as an option, etc.
Once you get beyond a certain level of literacy, start using Japanese sources for things, e.g. want to look up something on wikipedia? Read the Japanese page, even if the topic has nothing to do with Japan.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7998090
>I know Latin thank you very much, I can read most Romance languages and comprehend the gist of it without much trouble.
Yes but, do you know the rules of punctuation?
Why words are written the way they are?

I don't think so.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7998088
Yeah fuck you for even thinking that kind of ridiculousness is true.

http://gogen-allguide.com/a/arigatou.html

Educate thyself mongrel.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7998060
>Japanese is far from being a hard language.
If you are used to speaking English or German or any other indo-european language your whole life, an agglutinative language with 'weird' grammar is going to give you trouble. I've been learning Japanese for three years and formulating complex thoughts is still very hard. Flowery prose with long sentences are still a pain in the ass to read.
"Japanese is so easy lol u dumb" is a fucking lie.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7998140
Learning English for me, was, much harder than Japanese.

[Sakura !RAILgUnr8s No.]

>>7998140
English is my first Language and I don't find Japanese particularly hard to learn...

[Anonymous No.]

>>7998118
Sounds dumb.

I will continue with my theory, thanks.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7998230
if you are east asian this can be true, otherwise i really doubt that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7998140
The only people that say that are the ones who can read a few lines in a shit nukige or moege and suddenly think they are connoisseurs of the Japanese language.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7998279
>otherwise i really doubt that.
Why?

[Anonymous No.]

>>7998103
Done, I will also start trying to read pages of books, calligraphy books.
>>7998315
There's a general bias, some still believe kanji/hanzi knowledge automatically grant you power in the grammatical areas of a language.

[Anonymous No.]

/jp/ is all i need to stay motivated

[Anonymous No.]

>>7998246
You have to be fucking kidding me if you think a self contained language did not come up with a word to express gratitude on its own.

[Sakura !RAILgUnr8s No.]

>>7998419
He's trolling I'm sure... nobody could be that dumb.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7998315
how long will it take you to learn kanji? about 1-2 years, in this time some people are able to learn english.
and one of the reasons english is the world language #1 is because it's easy to learn.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7998419
Portuguese is the only language that there's a noun for "miss" in like "I miss you".

It's not impossible.
They could have another way to express it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7998443
>how long will it take you to learn kanji? about 1-2 years
That's too much.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7998450
Why the hell would it be a noun? That's a verb if anything.

I gave you a source that backs up my information. The Japanese have no reason to cover up whether they got a word from another language. Their alphabet is both borrowed and derived Chinese. If you're gonna say something like "they're too proud or embarrassed that they didn't come up with this word" that's some dumb conspiracy bullshit.

[Sakura !RAILgUnr8s No.]

>>7998443
You are joking correct? One of the reasons English is considered a world language is because at one point Britain had the largest empire ever, and I'm sure we all know what language they speak.

English is often cited as a quite difficult language to learn unless you already know a related one like German.

>>7998450
Whether or not it's impossible is irrelevant. Arigatou did not come from the Portuguese.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7998461
Why it didn't?

[Anonymous No.]

>>7998461
>You are joking correct? One of the reasons English is considered a world language is because at one point Britain had the largest empire ever, and I'm sure we all know what language they speak.

Japanese?

[Anonymous No.]

>>7998466
>Why the hell would it be a noun? That's a verb if anything.
No shit, I was saying there's also a noun for that in Portuguese, exclusively.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7998485
That wasn't funny or clever.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7998456
well not everyone is a professor like you.
>>7998461
i know english is the world language #1 because of great britain but it's also because it's quite easy to learn.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7998500
Portugal was the first western civilization to have contact with the Japanese, and as they (tried to) communicate with eachother, the japanese learnt new words such as sabone(soap), pan(bread) and others.

Saying arigato is derived from the portuguese IS also logical.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7998519
>well not everyone is a professor like you.
No, seriously, comparing English grammar and spelling to Japanese, English takes much more to learn than Japanese.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7998538
You are fucking retarded.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7998461
Portugal was the first western civilization to have contact with the Japanese, and as they (tried to) communicate with eachother, the japanese learnt new words such as sabone(soap), pan(bread) and others.

Saying arigato is derived from the portuguese IS also logical.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7998538
consider the following:
ありがたい　a japanese adjective, essentially meaning thank you
ありがとうございます <- a conjugation of ありがたい, said in keigo. The たい->とう is a standard conjugation for that.
ありがとう <-　ありがとうございます, but with the ございます dropped off

[Anonymous No.]

>>7998560
That's not very nice.
Or intelligent either.

[Sakura !RAILgUnr8s No.]

>>7998519
>it's also because it's quite easy to learn.
[citation required]

>>7998538
>the japanese learnt new words
Arigatou not being one of them. Adopting words from foodstuffs and other items they did not have before western contact makes sense. Saying that they didn't have a word to express thanks and had to learn it from the Portuguese is completely absurd.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7998565
Yes and?
It does not say anything about its origin
>>7998118
Is better.
>Saying that they didn't have a word to express thanks and had to learn it from the Portuguese is completely absurd.
Why?
>>7998571

[Anonymous No.]

>>7998450
You mean the only language where there's a noun for missing as in longing after? Because my native language has a noun for that as well. Do you have any source for it being the only language that has such a word? I really thought it was weird that English didn't have such a word...

[Anonymous No.]

Yes and?
It does not say anything about its origin
>>>>7998118
Is better.
>>7998571
>Saying that they didn't have a word to express thanks and had to learn it from the Portuguese is completely absurd.
Why?

[Sakura !RAILgUnr8s No.]

>>7998631
>Why?
There is absolutely no basis to assume that they got the word from the Portuguese. Not to mention they have other words to express thanks besides arigatou...

[Anonymous No.]

>>7998631
HOLY FUCK fuck the quoting system

[Anonymous No.]

>>7998555
I think he means that for a basic and understandable level you really don't have to invest too much effort into english. Basically that's what I like about it - quite easy to learn the basics while it can be fancy enough to create flowery prose and all that (if you're willing to go beyond caveman level)
I would most likely fail at any grammar tests regarding english but I never have the problem of not understanding even the finer nuances of it and I can't even remember when was the last time I had to open a dictionary. All this with barely any study (and that consisted of me looking up a word I heard/read in a cartoon/game).

It sure as hell doesn't come anywhere near a proper agglutinative language.

>>7998631
Because that's retarded.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7998631
well, by claiming you can read the gogen link you've confirmed you're a troll. No need to argue anymore folks.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7998645
There is absolutely no basis to assume that they got the word from the Portuguese.
There is.
Like resemblance for exemple?
>Not to mention they have other words to express thanks besides arigatou...
This just strengthens my point.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7998649
>confirmed you're a troll. No need to argue anymore folks.
Fucking stop this you retard fuck.

I said I prefered the obrigado theory and what was written in that link didn't convince me much.

[Sakura !RAILgUnr8s No.]

>>7998661
You're right. And I think they got their word 'ohayou' from the state of Ohio. Because they sound the same.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7998678
Yeah, except that Americans didn't exist on that period you fucking retard.

[Anonymous No.]

>ITT: People who know 100 words in Japanese (from anime, of course) argue about linguistics.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7998700
Holy autism

[Anonymous No.]

>>7998700
Oh wait, they existed, they are called natives.
But I don't think they ever had with Japanese!

[Anonymous No.]

>>7998724
*contact
>>7998723
Sup Sakura, forgot your trip?

[Sakura !RAILgUnr8s No.]

>>7998700
Yea, and arigatou is from a word that existed before the Portuguese ever came "you fucking retard". And the 'obrigado theory' is not a theory. It's just something stupid that some people actually believe, like old wives' tales and shit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7998748
>Yea, and arigatou is from a word that existed before the Portuguese ever came "you fucking retard".
Cool!
Can you convince me why please???

[Sakura !RAILgUnr8s No.]

>>7998760
Convince you why it came from a word before the Portuguese came? What are you even saying?

How about you try to prove that arigatou came from the Portuguese obrigado with something a bit more concrete other than 'they sound similar'.

If you want to believe something so stupid, go ahead, just understand that any dictionary containing word origin would disagree with you.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7998760
at least argue why arigatai /shi/ki came from portuguese. What you're doing now is like arguing that "ate" came from another language but not eat

[Anonymous No.]

>>7998791
I felt alone in the world fighting this retard before you came along Sakura.

Thank you, aibou.