Strength Of A Touhou

[Anonymous No.]

Which ones are strong and which ones are weak? For instance we know Patchy is weak unless she uses magic to augment herself, but what about Reimu, Yukari, Cirno and Yuyuko? Reimu must be pretty strong, but what about Yukari? Since she's a youkai does that instantly give her inhuman physical strength? What about Cirno? Can a fairy be a worthy opponent in an honorable fist fight? Or how about Rinnosuke? Does him being a half-youkai mean that he can punch you out with no effort?

Let's discuss these things.

[Anonymous No.]

Sanae is weak unless she uses dicks to augment herself.

And Rinnosuke is not a touhou.

[Anonymous No.]

I think I once seen list of Touhou power levels (but it was in Japanese). Maybe someone will be able to post it for you.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7877671

Hold it! I'm not talking about magic, but physical strength. Does the list take that into account?

[Anonymous No.]

If I us physical strength no one will guess this is a powerlevel thread!

unless zun says different though we don't know 90% of their physical stats because they fight with lazers. We can assume the oni are strong because they're oni, the martial artist are strong because they're martial artist. etc.

But yuuka folklore wise wouldn't have anywhere near the ability she supposedly does so who knows.

I'd like to assume they're of normal strength and stature unless the augment themselves with magic like Byakuren's ability is supposedly based around.

[Anonymous No.]

Reimu knows kung fu according to HrTP and the fighting games. Only she and Meiling know how to fight properly.

Onis are strong, they can lift the floor and make boulders.

[Anonymous No.]

>Let's discuss these things.

Why?

Seriously, why?

[Anonymous No.]

Onis hands-down

[Anonymous No.]

>>7877731

Because we like Touhou?

[Anonymous No.]

Doesn't just going to gensokyo make you a magical powerhouse? Wasn't that one pc98 one a college professor or something?

[Necrobrotent No.]

>No one posting horrific fmg art?

I'm proud of you guys.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7877731
Why not?

[Anonymous No.]

Physically Onis, Vampires and Celestials are the strongest.

Probably also Yuuka.

[Anonymous No.]

>For instance we know Patchy is weak unless she uses magic to augment herself
She's only weak by youkai standards because she's exposed to poisonous substances like mercury. Chances are that she can still fuck your shit up even on a bad day.

>Which ones are strong and which ones are weak?
Depends on the situation outright fight or spell cards or abilities?

>Can a fairy be a worthy opponent in an honorable fist fight?
No. By they are tricksters and are not notable because of they're physical strength.

>Or how about Rinnosuke? Does him being a half-youkai mean that he can punch you out with no effort?
Yes, I wouldn't see why not. But in Gensokyo most humans are superhuman by our standard iirc most humans in gensokyo are decendants of power mystics who waged war on Youkai. So maybe Rinnosuke can punch out normal humans but doesn't guarantee he'd win a fight with a standard human youkai hunt/hermit.

>Reimu must be pretty strong,
Her strength is borrowed from the Gods

>but what about Yukari? Since she's a youkai does that instantly give her inhuman physical strength?
Yes.

>What about Cirno? Can a fairy be a worthy opponent in an honorable fist fight?
No Fairy's are physically weak and are pranksters.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7877759

Aren't tengu strong as well?

[Youmu Konpaku !MyonHUTINA No.]

My strength is magically augmented.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7877772
No just fast.

[\ No.]

>>7877772
The giant elder ones were said to be strong but they were usually just considered crow demons.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7877769

Magicians are weak physically, they are no stronger than humans.

Strong human could probably kick Patchouli's ass in a fistfight. Thing is, she can probably kill you with a word.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7877769

Outright fight without magic or abilities. For instance it was said that Patchy is asthmatic and weaker than the average human.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7877772
Its relative, stronger than average humans it is, humans are mostly pretty weak compared to beasts and especially demons, warriors can train to become stronger though.

[Anonymous No.]

My touhou can beat up your touhou.

[Youmu Konpaku !MyonHUTINA No.]

>>7877797
>Magicians are weak physically, they are no stronger than humans.
Byakuren.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7877806
Byakuren's tough when she's buffed herself up. If we aren't counting in magic, she's a normal human.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7877799
>It was said...weaker than the average human.
Citation Needed. Only thing mentioned was her asthma irrc and that was explained by her playing with dangerous chemicals like mercury.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7877806
Just as Reimu is, Byakuren's abilities are inhereted blessings of whatever gods they are under, not much training goes in to it, they're pretty much stomping machines right out of the starting gates, as with most religion-related chaaracters

[Anonymous No.]

>>7877806

Special case.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7877826
That will make anyone physically weak, she's so weak she can't even recite most of her spells.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7877825
>That will make anyone physically weak
No son, that shit will kill you.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7877772

Stronger than average youkai and tied with vampires as the fastest species.

But overall they are nothing compared to top tier youkai.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7877847

Good thing she's not human.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7877859
just imagine a few thousand more years and she'll be a moe lich with a silly hat.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7877826
IaMP.

>Although she is quite skillful, her complete lack of physical fighting ability can't be helped. She pretty much never attempts to directly punch or kick her opponent.

Being a magician does not give you superhuman strength, dunno where you got that ''she could beat you even on a bad day'' from.

[Anonymous No.]

Well sire if you're talking pure physical ability, but you go ahead and try that without getting burnt crisp.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7877869
there was no comparison to human or being weaker than human

[Anonymous No.]

>>7877825
>>7877769
Reimu already had physical skills when she had zero divine power (HrTP).

Where did you get that ''gods give her strength'' from? All I recall is learning to summon the gods' power in SSiB.

[Anonymous No.]

You know is there an antimagic touhou yet?

[Anonymous No.]

>>7877867

That's fine.

Japanese liches are a bit different.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7877879
ZERO FIGHTING SKILLS.

Youkais don't have some sort of impenetrable anti-human fist skin you know, although Patchouli can create barriers I think. Nowhere is it say either that she has any kind of strength or resistance.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7877883

No.

Anti-magic is setting ruining shit and I hope ZUN will never introduce this crap in Touhou.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7877883
well, sorta

[Anonymous No.]

>>7877881
I didn't personally mean physical ability, I just meant her power isn't through years and decades of study that mages go through.

One reason most mages are physically weak is because they spend untold hours researching tons of things and going weeks without any physical exertion

Not to mention once they get to a point, they can use magic to aid in everyday things.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7877890

Normal youkai can rip a human apart with bare hands. Magicians are different.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7877902
Depends on the youkai.

Most common non-predatory youkai are human level.

Youkai as a general race marker is really terrible because they're so varied.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7877902
I don't see your post conflicting with the one you're replying to.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7877908
>non-predatory youkai

So magicians and fairies.

All other youkai eat humans.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7877917
Nigga what?

[Anonymous No.]

>>7877890
Skill has nothing to do with strength. I don't think I have to explain why. What your drawing from that statement and what that statement means are two different things.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7877922
I'm getting a bit confused, are you trying to say Patchouli has any bit of physical strength? I would assume not.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7877925

It's true.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7877930
Nope. Also if this is a set up for a You mad post I really would hope that you would be more respectable than that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7877922
It's pretty clear that Patchouli has zero fighting skills or any kind of ability to do proper fighting, hence why the only non-magic move she's ever done is whack you with her book. As said before, being a magician does not give you strength.

The ashtma makes it even worse.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7877938
Oooh, you so mad.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7877938

But it really is true.

It's youkai nature to eat humans. There are just few exceptions.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7877963

[Anonymous No.]

>>7877963
no

[Anonymous No.]

>>7877941
Being a Youkai does give you strength and that's what Patchy is, A youkai. Your counter argument against this is misinterpreting the use of the word "ability" and coming to a false conclusion about that.

This sentence:
>her complete lack of physical fighting ability can't be helped

Isn't saying she's weak. This sentence is saying she's not competent at it because she lacks the skills to fight.

>Ability
>noun
>>competence in an activity or occupation because of one's skill, training, or other qualification: the ability to sing well.

Patchy is stronger than a normal human because she's a YOUKAI mage but she's weaker than other youkai because of her condition.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7878020
EoSD dialogue, she can't even recite all of her spells because she's so weak.

[Anonymous No.]

I'll ahead and assume the Scarlet Sisters are pretty strong, as vampires in fiction always have super strength.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7878020
Show me proof that shows she is stronger than a fit human.

How do you explain the fact that human characters are able to physically hurt youkais in the fighting games? And don't give me that ''oh the gods are on their side'' bullshit because it's just fanwank.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7878028
Not all is fanwank. Reimu scenerio; Phanasmagoria of Dim. Dream

[Anonymous No.]

>>7878034
...What about it?

[Anonymous No.]

>>7878034
I don't see what you mean but,

>You have the scientific magic I created, don't you.
>scientific magic

Shit is bananas

[Youmu Konpaku !MyonHUTINA No.]

>>7878053
It'd be entirely possible to apply the scientific method to a universe where magic exists.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7877983
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Perfect_Memento_in_Strict_Sense/Youkai
>Just about the only thing in common between youkai is that they attack and prey upon humans
>There are definitely exceptions, but many fall towards this trend

[Anonymous No.]

>>7878048
Divine backing, it can apply to physical augmentation as well, as you can tell Reimu isn't a pushover in terms of hand-to-hand.

>>7878053
Best two words together.

[Necrobrotent No.]

>>7878057
Yeah but why waste the time when its magic and you don't gotta explain shit?

[Anonymous No.]

>>7878071
Because it's scientific magic, therefore you'd have to scientifically explain how magic works.

Preposterous, at its finest.

[Anonymous No.]

>Show me proof that shows she is stronger than a fit human.
Patchy is a Youkai, Youkai are stated to be stronger than fit humans. The burden of proof is for you to bring up a good reason why we should disregard that information. Your first reason is that they mention her lack of fighting ability. We've addressed that. here.>>7878020

ANd now below:

>How do you explain the fact that human characters are able to physically hurt youkais in the fighting games?

Because the humans aren't standard humans. They've trained for years to be able to exterminate youkai. Plus Gensokyo Humans are fucking strong. They fought the Youkais to a stand still and drove the Oni underground.

>over 100 years ago - period of the 8th Child of Miare, Hieda no Aya
>During this time, humans begin becoming powerful enough to seriously challenge youkai
>The youkai that lived there began to terrorize the surrounding lands, and thus powerful, heroic humans were sent to exorcise and exterminate them. The off and on battle between humans and youkai continued on until 1885 A.D.,

Humans have always been on near equal fighting terms with Youkai. More specifically humans haave the potential to train and fight on equal terms with Youkai.

But in this discussion we're discussing base humans (humans with no training whatsoever) and base youkai (no training) and its explicitly stated that YOukais will always come out on top.

Again the only thing you have to argue against this interpretation is the one line which you misunderstood. So the burden of proof falls on you to provide a counter argument.

[Anonymous No.]

>They fought the Youkais to a stand still and drove the Oni underground.
We fought the Nazis.

[Anonymous No.]

Autism.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7878228
I never said ''human with no training''.

The fact that it's said that ''youkais are normally stronger than humans'' does not specify that every single one of them will have superstrength.

What I meant by ''humans'' I obviously meant the Gensokyo humans, not anyone else, which you misunderstood.

Why do you think Patchouli's weakness is so emphatized? Yet you keep assuming things with no clear base, sorry, but there's no proof yet that she could fight on par with a human without magic. As I said before, fanwank.

[Kudryavka !!wEyYEw5OlKU No.]

Physical powerlevels:

God tier: Onis.
Shit tier: everyone else.

Suika is the strongest Touhou because she's basically ZUN. The other Devas are his drinking buddies.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7878228
>they've trained for years

Yeah, in danmaku, not physical combat or anything, except Reimu.

There's a flaw in your argument, the sheer fact that a youkai could easily cripple and rip apart a human using only physical combat would mean that humans have zero chance of _hurting_ them no matter how much they could physically train, which we know it's wrong seeing as how even Marisa can bitchslap them to death.

You're only using assumptions, nothing of what you've said is proving your point in a clear manner, that won't help you here.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7878255
>Suika is basically ZUN
Not quite.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7878252
>Coming to /jp/
>Not expecting Touhou autism everywhere

[HelenXonpool !a0yHhBwvus No.]

>>7878271

Everyone is Suika, though.
On the inside.

Suika just happens to be Suika on the outside as well.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7878253
>>I never said ''human with no training''.
>>7877799Outright fight without magic or abilities. For instance.....weaker than the average human
Yes you did.
Reimu isn't an Average human, Marisa, Sakuya and Sanae are not Average humans hence they can fight Youkai to a stand still.


>does not specify that every single one of them will have superstrength.
Yes it does:
>Youkai have a history of being physically stronger than humans
>Physically Stronger
>*Youkai have stronger bodies than humans, so even if they're split into five parts, they heal right away.
>Stronger bodies

Yes it does. It specifically says that they're a stronger physically. And the only exception to that is with trained humans, which we're not discussing. You specifically said "average" humans and youkai hunting is a specialist's job. Its not something that humans with no training can do.

Again, burden of proof is on you. We've discussed the single sentence you're basing your argument on, we've discussed the definition of "Average" humans and we've addressed why humans can take her on. Ive posted excerpts where its stated that Youkai are physically stronger than humans. There's no reason to continue this since everything points to patchy being stronger than an average human.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7878274
It's not usually of this incredible magnitude.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7878266
>Yeah, in danmaku, not physical combat or anything, except Reimu.
The war between the heoric humans and youkai were in a time before the creation of the Hakurei border, the drafting of spell card rules and Danmaku. The spell card rules where introduced early on in the series, the war happened several hundred years before the series took place.

So you are wrong.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7878287
But I'm not >>7877799, there's your mistake.

I'm gonna ignore the paragraph you just wrote because you're just repeating yourself, here's what I'll say.

Patchouli has trouble having enough energy to even pronounce her spells, as far as I know, a human has enough energy to talk for hours straight, see where this goes?

Also, Regeneration =/= Physical Strength.

Patchouli is clearly defined as a weakened youkai, even if she'd be naturally stronger, she's not in a natural state, therefore as shown above, is weaker than a human.

Again, stop using assumptions instead of clear facts. Humans training for youkai hunting do not use physical force because they use danmaku instead.

[Anonymous No.]

1. Nothing canonical indicates that Reimu, Marisa, or Sakuya have incredible physical strength.
2. Magicians are, unlike other youkai, fairly frail, and somewhat around human-tier physically. Since Patchouli has astoundingly shitty asthma, she's probably Akyu-tier or something terrible when it comes to actually fist-fighting.

[Anonymous No.]

I'd beat the shit out of Patchy with my dick, and there's nothing you can do about it.

[Anonymous No.]

What the fuck, guys. All you had to do was quote the Sorceror article in Perfect Memento in Strict Sense, even if it is by Akyu.

http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Perfect_Memento_in_Strict_Sense/Sorcerer

>Fortunately, their bodies are only about as strong as that of an ordinary human, so running away is simple.
>A magician who is properly prepared is so strong that they can take on any kind of youkai.
>However, they are weak to surprise attacks, and are not good at close combat or lengthy conflicts.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7880771
It was more fun to see somebody go off the rails insulting people despite being completely wrong.