/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

First semester in Japanese.

Tips on surviving?

[Anonymous No.]

>>7828579
Drop out
Become tru NEET

[Anonymous No.]

Would any of you be so kind as to scan this book for me?
I know someone out there has it...

Or at least a link to torrent/dl - I can't find one...

[Anonymous No.]

>>7828599
Sure, scanning it right now. I'll upload it later this week when I'm done.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7828579
Kill a Japanese guy then eat his heart and wear his skin.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7828603
OH MY GOD I LOVE YOU! - How can I ever repay you?
Where will I be able to find?

[Anonymous No.]

>>7828614
Yeah he was totally serious bro

[Anonymous No.]

Just try to pay attention, I guess.

Also, if you want to get anywhere be prepared for some self-study. Most people here will tell you that classes are worthless and that they move too slow, and while that's not really the case, there's certainly a bit of truth to it. Classes are an excellent way of easing yourself into the language and building a solid foundation, but they won't do all the work for you. Serious, long-term results will require a lot of personal commitment.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7828579
Your image is good and bad advice mixed together. RTK is good and kanji learning starts immediately with the numbers 1-10.
一二三四五六七八九十

>>7828599
>2011
>class doesn't use Genki or at least Minna No Nihongo

[Anonymous No.]

So who else has met fellow Touhou fans in their class?

[b.b.hood !ponpOnMgkc No.]

I want to finish RTK already ahhhh. It feels like some progress is being made but at the same time I'd like to get on with vocabularly. Sometimes for fun I'll look up a RTK kanji in a dictionary and see how useless the given RTK meaning is.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7828656
I know!
I looked through it and kind of hate it - That's why I don't want to buy it...
Any help?

[Anonymous No.]

RTK is unscientific and ultimately destructive. Here's how you learn kanji.

at the beginner level:
-use a textbook that integrates kanji with vocabulary
-make vocabulary flashcards using words you already know. Pay particular attention to the kanji that are Kyouiku kanji.

at the advanced level:
-learn kanji properly from kodansha Kanji Learner's Dictionary
-get an electronic dictionary and become proficient at looking up kanji by radical and stroke count

[Suigin !fKazami5bE No.]

>>7828666
Ugh, i haven't practiced with RTK in ages, as soon as I got to 1000 kanji I started forgetting everything and eventually lost interest.
I should try getting into kanji practice again.
>>7828713
Is stroke order really that important?

[Anonymous No.]

>>7828713
>RTK destructive
The point of RTK is to recognize the characters from memory using English. When finished with RTK the kodansha dictionary would then be useful.

[b.b.hood !ponpOnMgkc No.]

>>7828730
I'm trying to whizz by them. I've come to the realization and knowing the meaning that RTK gives you is pointless half the time so I'm just using it to 'remember the kanji' so looking them up when reading things is easier.

Ex. RTK 幅 gives the main meaning as 'hanging scroll' but looking it up it's almost always just used for width.

>>7828713
Ignoring all that RTK stuff, the learner's dictionary is really great. I don't even care about SKIP that much since I can look the kanji up elsewhere and get the dictionary entry number quickly, but the compounds and other info given is really useful.

[Anonymous No.]

I never "learned" Kanji and I sure as hell can't read the majority of them (though I know at least one "meaning" for most of them). Focus on vocabulary.

[None !!4lZvvet8bSQ No.]

>>7828730
>stroke order important?
yes it is

[None !Nipaa0mi0. No.]

>>7828579
Pick an easier language instead such as Spanish.

[Anonymous No.]

It's not like you're taking high level physics or math. Just pay attention in class and if you're not an idiot you'll pass.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7828936
Or learn portuguese (the real portuguese, not brazilian) and you'll be able to understand and speak spanish as well.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7828950
True.

[Kudryavka !!wEyYEw5OlKU No.]

>You will not learn the language on your own for one major reason: You lack motivation
Thankfully this doesn't apply to us /jp/ers who will gladly spend 2200 hours learning to read our waifu's VN in glorious nippongo.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7828957
Unfortunately, I'm still part of the inferior that can't muster the motivation for even that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7828957
Unfortunately, I'm still part of the inferior race that can't muster the motivation for even that.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7828735
I shouldn't have to explain this (I'm not the person you're responding to), but
> is unscientific and ultimately destructive.
is a /prog/ meme which originated when someone from /prog/ mailed G.J.Sussman (SICP's author, Scheme's inventor, fairly important MIT professor) about /prog/ acting somewhat like his fanclub, to which he responded that such behavior is ``unscientific and ultimately destructive''

[Anonymous No.]

What if my sister went to Japan for three years in the navy and bought My Japanese Coach herself and then moved back in with me and my parents recently? Can I use her copy since I didn't pay for it?

[None !!4lZvvet8bSQ No.]

>>7828950
>speak
nah, you won't speak it, but you'll understand it

Spanish/Portuguese is hard tho, the only "easy" thing is that you won't need to learn too many characters than what you already know, you will only have to learn what ~ ´ ` ^ ¨ mean over letters

[Anonymous No.]

The tip about keeping your damn mouth shut is the most important. Bring up something anime related and you will annoy the shit out of everyone, especially the teacher. you'll find that the people who are learning Japanese because of "lol anime" tend to fail the hardest because they have the wrong expectations.

And girls, raising the pitch in your voice when speaking in Japanese like they do in anime sounds fucking ridiculous. You will look like a fool in front of anyone with even a basic grasp of the language. You have been warned.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7828637
This

[Yasu No.]

>>7828936
オ　プエデス　アプレンデル　アンボス！

[Anonymous No.]

>>7829027
I'm a native portuguese speaker and I can hold a conversation in spanish. Sure, I can't write poetry or anything, but it's good enough for day-to-day stuff. Also, the umlaut is only used in brazilian.

[Anonymous No.]

what the fuck kind of employment is available as a language major?
seriously, what kind of jobs other than teaching english in japan

[gw !!kVmQk69qQRC No.]

>>7829045
オ　ロス　トレス

[Anonymous No.]

>>7829056
Teaching Spanish in Japan, teaching French in Japan. teaching German in Japan...

[Anonymous No.]

>>7829059
but do they even care about other shit like that?

[Anonymous No.]

The kanji progression in kanjidicks seems to go in a much more logical order than RTK, and the notes give a much better idea of their actual meaning (at least I hope that's the case.)

[Anonymous No.]

>>7828713
I do all that anyway and there is no advanced level in languages. Implying RTK interferes somehow.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7829056
You don't major in an art unless you like wasting your life. Major in computer science or engineering. Minor in Japanese.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7828772

Enjoy your illiteracy.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7829203

or just learn it in your own time

i disagree with point number one, it's possible to learn on your own especially with all the resources available on the internet

[Anonymous No.]

I'm using Genki 2 this year. I feel so proud.

[gw !!kVmQk69qQRC No.]

>>7829239
It helps if you have learned another language tho, but with motivation anything is possible :)

[tripless !!QtB4I4Y9kiO No.]

>>7828730
yes, if you dont do stroke order right, i dont care how good your hand writing is, it will look horrible, for example, the kata for so: ソ, if you get the big slash wrong in the second section, it will not be in the right position/length, and thats not even a 20 stroke kanji

[Anonymous No.]

>>7829220
See how your knowledge of Kanji get's you though a conversation.

[tripless !!QtB4I4Y9kiO No.]

>>7829297
you wont meet many japanese people in america, or for that matter any country besides japan, and good luck navigating the train system without knowing kanji, though some of the bigger stations might have english and japanese

[Anonymous No.]

>>7829312
You've clearly never been to Seattle.

[Anonymous No.]

I'm taking Japanese this semester and I and I can already smell trouble with my classmates, and teacher.

First of all, my teacher is female so chances are that by the end of this all of us taking the class will sound like transvestites. Secondly, most of my classmates are black otaku. I seriously saw one guy with a vegeta action figure on his pen, and he kept acting all bad ass like he knew the language. The teacher asked him if he knew Hirgana, and he said, "No, I don't know how to write I only know how to speak." I almost fucked raged /jp/, I almost fucking raged.

Also, the teacher is teaching the -ます verb endings first. This will be confusing as hell for everyone. I know it's good to know polite Japanese, but this should come after you know the basics.

[Anonymous No.]

California, Washington, Hawaii

[Anonymous No.]

>>7828599

[Anonymous No.]

>>7829373
In the second Japanese class, they'll still be there complaining that it's getting too hard. By the third class most weeaboos will hide their power levels.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7829373
Actually, only cheap bad courses teach the informal way first. If you ever speak with a japanese in real life, you'll want to be polite.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7829373
>Also, the teacher is teaching the -ます verb endings first. This will be confusing as hell for everyone. I know it's good to know polite Japanese, but this should come after you know the basics.

Are you saying that you want to learn the dictionary form when one of the few people that you will be conversing with are your teacher and complete strangers? That's stupid.

One of the first rules in learning a language is by knowing the polite forms then working your way from there. Slang can only get you so far.

[Mirrored !EhE8ram93U No.]

>>7829422
I agree.

I use the usted form of verbs in Spanish because it's more formal. In Colombia, people tended to find it interesting that I was really polite.

Being overly polite in any language is always a good thing as a foreigner.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7829373
What kind of shit-eating faggot has trouble learning the formal/dictionary form anyway?
The only possible source of confusion are　う verbs that end in る。

[Anonymous No.]

>>7828579
Where are the rest of the 40 tips?

[Anonymous No.]

>>7829414
Oh you.

>>7829472
I would love to know as well - Only have ever seen this one...

[Anonymous No.]

>>7829484
>>7829472

Why do you care? Those tips are shit/troll tier.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7829486
Partially because it's funny.
Partially because some are actually solid tips.

[Anonymous No.]

あきらめてください。

[Anonymous No.]

>>7829486
That's exactly why we care.

[Anonymous No.]

How does /jp/ feel about Rosetta Stone?

[Anonymous No.]

>>7829661
I'd like to know that in detail, I hear a lot of "its shit" but I want to know what is shit about it, details people.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7829670
Well, despite your likelihood to frown upon me, here goes:

I've taken just about five hours or so of Japanese on Rosetta Stone. Starts with the -ます verb endings, then goes to the question form (not sure what to call it yet). It's just introduced numbers and I'm not really sure what the different endings after the number roots mean, apart from maybe meaning "third" instead of "three", for example.

Anyway, after such a short time it's pretty much all in hiragana and uses some kanji (simple ones), and I feel like that's a continuum that will use more and more kanji as I go on.

What are the alternatives, anyway?

[Anonymous No.]

>>7829661

まじくそじゃん。

[Anonymous No.]

>>7829682
that sounds very different from the japanese rosetta stone I tried 2 years ago

[Anonymous No.]

>>7829661

It teaches you some basic vocab/grammar, and not very much reading (or much else of anything).

I suppose after you're done with it, you'll have a bit of a stepping stone from which you can start to earnestly learn Japanese in full.

To get to fluent reading/speaking Japanese, no one particular program will do it all for you, it's more of a matter of perseverance and willpower.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7829423
standard form isn't "slang", and its used in polite speech too when you modify nouns and such. Its much easier to see the structure of the language when you think of it in terms of standard form. Also, you wouldn't be using polite form towards your classmates anyway.

[Anonymous No.]

That's a big problem with learning Japanese. There isn't a lot of intermediate and advanced material to get you reading and listening to things other than Japanese learning books with the same amount of structure.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7829694
> Its much easier to see the structure of the language when you think of it in terms of standard form
Not really, using -masu as a base you just need to memorize -masen and -masendeshita and you have 99% of the verb conjugation in your pocket. Standard form requires you to learn the basic form and how to change the base just for the basic tenses, and then you also have to learn the -masu form for speaking with the teacher. It's a lot easier from a beginner coming from other languages to start from the first.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7829935
its not like conjugation of casual forms is that much harder...
and try to say simple shit like 走っている姿は消えた using only polite forms

[Anonymous No.]

>>7829965
for a guy at the beginning, it is simply a matter of remebering 4 simple forms against 12+. and you wouldn't see that "simple shit" in a beginner course where at most you ask what hour it is and where the mcdonalds is.
Sure, starting from the casual forms would be more proper, but you ideally want the transition to be smooth, not loading people with everything at once.

[Anonymous No.]

Learning plain form first is better because that's the basis from which you conjugate everything. We learned polite form first and even in the second year our teacher had the class reverse conjugate the polite form to plain form to figure out how to conjugate it back into the relevant form. It was fucking counterproductive and then you have to break the habit of thinking of verbs in polite form if you ever want to get good at the language.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7829974
the guy after you is basically saying what I was thinking
If the problem is too many conjugations, I think it would honestly be better to postpone the past tense rather than teaching the wrong form first.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7829027
And don't forget about "ç".

[Anonymous No.]

>>7829312
You imply that knowing the basic 2200 kanji will help with reading names, it won't. There is no rules regarding which readings are used when it comes to names, you just have to ask or have it told to you. If you know even a little bit of kanji, that should be all you ever need to remember the name on sight. You also suggest that "some of the bigger stations" will have English. Firstly, that shows you've never even been to Japan, which I guess isn't that shocking, this is /jp/ after all, and again, kanji names are difficult to read for a first timer, so the kanji readings will almost certainly be given in either romaji or hiragana. I've been to some pretty back water towns, and not once have I had trouble navigating the train system.

Drill vocab and practice speaking with people who are better than you. Drilling kanji is only useful if you want to look better than everyone else who studies kanji.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7829935
This.

Trying to disagree with the standardised teaching plan is for n00bs. You really show how little you know.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7829981
>the problem is too many conjugations
the problem isn't just too many conjugations, it's also switching between polite and standard forms on the fly. I don't know about you but a beginner WILL have problems with that. Yeah, I agree learning standard form by going back kind of sucks, but you can say that because you already grasped how japanese works. For someone who hasn't got the slightest idea yet, suddenly introducing how you need one set of verbs to talk to friends and another to talk to teachers is just going to be overload. And considering university is a formal place it makes sense starting from formal.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7829220
Happen to be JLPT 1.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7830205
My old teacher told me once that that previously (until the 80s) only the polite form was taught. It was assumed that if you became perfectly proficient at the polite form before coming to Japan, you would pick up the standard form on the fly. Her opinion was that it was mainly so that foreigners don't show up to Japan and make an ass of themselves, as it is really easy to piss people off by using the wrong form. Times have kinda changed in that regard, but I think at least by teaching the polite form first, you have somewhere to start.

It is standardised in the same fashion that it is graded, which is also the same way in which you would use it. Using the JLPT as a guide:
N5-4: Beginner Japanese. Mostly polite form, for people who want to learn basic Japanese to travel easier, have conversations with people they meet, etc. Knowledge of standard forms and all methods of conjugation aren't strictly required.
N3-2: Intermediate to advanced Japanese. Moving beyond the basics, for people who want to live in Japan and build relationships, or maybe even work in a biligual work environment. Standard forms are needed to speak with friends/workmates, while honorific language is needed to speak with elders/superiors.
N1: Native level Japanese. for those who plan to live a long time in Japan and/or work in a professional environment. Full knowledge of Kanji is required, as well as the common usages of all levels of language, from standard to honorific. Native level stuff.

So to that other guy, can you see why this structure makes sense yet? Not everyone who is learning Japanese plans on living there.

[Anonymous No.]

I don't get why you focus so much on spoken language when all you'll be doing is listen to anime dialogues and read VN/manga text.

[Anonymous No.]

A tip to everyone forgetting kanji. You WILL forget them if you just learn them once. Review them with pimsleur-like intervals. Anki can do this for you.