/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

The last good Touhou game. Best gameplay (as good as PCB), awesome OST, really good characters, and the scoring system was quite decent.

[Anonymous No.]

>SA
>good

[Anonymous No.]

laughingtouhous.jpg

[Anonymous No.]

>really good characters
No.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7821979
But in this case, there should be UFO on your picture, because SA is quite a low-tier.

[Anonymous No.]

ITT my opinion vs. your opinion.

[HAXUS THE QUALITY CONTROLLER No.]

good thred

[Anonymous No.]

>touhou
>good
pick one

[Anonymous No.]

Obviously that is my opinion. If you want to defend another entry of the series you could try to do so /jp/. Learn to have a good discussion thread for once that isn't about Komachi's breasts size or 'my touhou would kill your touhou'.

[Anonymous No.]

SA is my favorite Touhou after IN. Dat Utsuho fight and dat Extra Stage.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7822000
i would say SA is mid-tier, it is just good overall

[Anonymous No.]

>>7822020
Well then say "in my opinion". Don't just toss shit out there looking for a fucking shitstorm.

[Anonymous No.]

I agree. ZUNs best characters are inspired by western myths

[Anonymous No.]

>>7822031
I would do that if I wanted to see my thread slowly drop to page 15 and 404 in silence.

>>7822029
Just mid-tier? The music is really good and a lot of people fell in love with the characters. The gameplay is really good since it isn't based on gimmicks like UFO or TD.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7822034
yatagarasu is a chinese god, what western myths are you talking about?

[Anonymous No.]

>>7822043
> The gameplay is really good since it isn't based on gimmicks
> isn't based on gimmicks

That's not MoF and EoSD

[Anonymous No.]

>>7822051
MoF is full of bomb spam, that is pretty gimmicky for me. The chain scoring system is the best in the series anyway.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7822031
He doesn't have to. The OP was straight to the point and wasn't insulting or down playing anybody else's opinion.

[Anonymous No.]

ufo too deep for you

[Anonymous No.]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xy_-7OXophY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8ehKblhOfg

It is impossible to decide which final theme is better.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7821979
I agree. It really is the last good Touhou game. TH 13 jumped the shark.

I feel like after 11 ZUN started making up story lines for his own enjoyment. That's alright since it is his doujin game but it takes away from the enjoyment.

Seriously, its like now all he is interested in is making philosophical statements and bring up old myths as opposed to make an engaging fun story with fun characters.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7822076
this one of course
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNK7j-j_c68

[Anonymous No.]

Fuck off Mystic Square is one of the few touhou GOOD games and the last.

[Anonymous No.]

PCB > IN > SA > STB = DS = IaMP > EoSD = PoFV = GFW = SWR = H > TD = UFO = PC-98s > MoF

[Anonymous No.]

it all went downhill after Highly Responsive to Prayers

[Anonymous No.]

>>7822078
I know what you mean, 12 and 13 are just okay games. I know it is pretty weird to add the story/music/characters into changing your opinion if it is a good game or not, but we are talking about Touhou here.

[Anonymous No.]

Not sure if it is better than UFO or TD, but the extra stage is indeed better.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7822085
>H
>Not UNL

[Anonymous No.]

It's good, but one of my least favorites partially because almost all of the shot types feel completely worthless.

[Anonymous No.]

GOOD TIER: -
ACCEPTABLE TIER: SoEW, MS, PoDD
LOW TIER: HRtP, LLS
BAD TIER: IN, PCB, EoSD
SHIT TIER: SA, MoF, UFO, TD
WTF TIER: PoFV

[Anonymous No.]

I actually really like the danmaku in UFO. Too bad the UFOs themselves felt so silly and gimmicky.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7822103
unl.mizuumi.net

[Anonymous No.]

>>7822132
>Dim.Dream acceptable
>Flower View wtf

[Anonymous No.]

Good games: MS, EoSD, PCB, UFO

deal w/

[Anonymous No.]

>really good characters

Let me guess. You are one of these children that like Utsuho because she has a hand cannon that fires suns. She's so strong that's why she's the best!

[Anonymous No.]

All Touhous are good. Sure, each one might have some flaws, but that doesn't prevent them from being enjoyable.

[Anonymous No.]

Am I the only one that thinks that the TD cast fits much better into Gensokyo than both SA and UFO?

[Anonymous No.]

>>7822246
>She's so strong that's why she's the best!
What a lovely sentiment.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7822246
I enjoy mastermind/final boss types and being very strong usually comes with that territory. My favorite's Eirin or Yukari though

[Anonymous No.]

>>7822264
SA cast is pretty underground, you probably never heard of them but that's okay.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7822264
It's almost like they fit too well. I feel like they're crowding in on my Touhous.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7825159
http://instantrimshot.com/

[Anonymous No.]

>>7822078
> ZUN started making up story lines for his own enjoyment

Zun already made game for his own enjoyment at the beginging, the problem is his enjoyment no longer catch ppl interests that much

>"I'm going to keep making games that stand out, so if all my fans disappear I'm still happy I can keep doing the games I want."

and seriously, SA has the least music that i like

[Anonymous No.]

>>7825159
Here you go.

[Anonymous No.]

Best midboss

[Anonymous No.]

SA is probably my favorite...Or at least has some of my favorite music and characters. Rin is easily my favorite stage 5 boss...She's also one of the only characters that really seemed interesting. Maybe it's 'cause a few of the endings made her seem two faced or a bit evil. Plus her zombie fairy thing was awesome.

Utsuho was also my favorite stage 6 boss. Interesting theme and all of the spell cards were really cool.

[Anonymous No.]

best shot type ever
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnM-r1ewCws

[Anonymous No.]

IN > PCB > TD > EoSD > MoF > UFO = SA

Out of the ranking, but awesome nonetheless: StB/DS, IaMP/Soku, Fairy Wars.

The PC-98 games are also out of the ranking because they are outdated. And because I'm not a hispter.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7822020

A good discussion thread is not making flagrant statements that basically amount to "If you like Touhou games past 11, you have no taste"

Personally, PCB is still my favorite in the series, but I enjoyed 11 and 12 quite a bit. I've seen people bashing on 13, but I actually found it to be quite good.

The music is different than normal, while still being in roughly the same style and is a bit of a refreshing turn of events. The game system is interesting, and the closest thing we've gotten to getting the cherry point/supernatural border system back. The characters are quite interesting, and draw on some more obscure sources.

I'm sure this game is slow / easy enough that people that are used to lunatic scoring runs might be a bit bored with it, but you honestly can't please everyone. And recall that Zun himself has said that the main fucking reason he does the games is to have a vehicle for his music and character/story ideas, rather than trying to make it super hard for super obsessive people. Nothings wrong with spending your time getting super good at danmaku games. But you shouldn't bitch when thought is given to other demographics as well. Especially when the lunatic mode isn't exactly something a whole lot of people can or have played.

I've seen a lot of negativity toward 13, but keep in mind the whole vocal minority thing. The people that hate 13 REALLY hate 13. The people that like it (myself included) are likely so sick of this "latest touhou sucks BAAWWWWW" thing thats been going on since fucking mountain of faith that they don't even want to participate anymore.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7825331

I never got the "Liking PC98 games is hipster thing". I played them because at the time I was waiting for the next Touhou game, and it was months away. At the time the PC98 games accounted for almost half the series, so it would seem a little odd to NOT at least give them a try.

Turns out they were pretty good. The only thing really holding them back from being just as good as the current games are a few vital game mechanics that got added later (focus,visible hitbox, point of collect) and just general smoothness.

The other reason I wanted to play them is because I had considered doing fanworks at some point (still do) and I wanted to at least see the older stuff for myself. It greatly annoys me when people (the japanese included) try to do stuff without even bothering to experience the series as a whole. Just like how it annoys me talking to fans that haven't read the print works (IMO the best part of Touhou).

I will say, though, that Yuuka's surprise master spark was one of the more memorable moments of the entire series for me, so yeah. "Oh hey, its that girl from PoFV I wonder what she's go- OH GOD WHY?!"

[Anonymous No.]

I like every character, every game and every theme equally. For me, there are no better or worse characters or games. But there's one Tohuou that I like slighlty more than others.
And I'll never understand how someone could hate a game character.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7825419
It's really weird that you like 100 characters the same amount.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7825419
People like to have "opinions" in order to distinguish themselves from other people. But I get your point, I'm the same kind of people as you.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7825444

There's a difference between "I like Mokou more than Kaguya" (an opinion) and "I like Mokou... so FUCK KAGUYA FUKN MOONBITCH BABBY'S FIRST 2HU IN IS 4 2NDAIRY FGTS FUK U" (/jp/)

Lots of people here are quicker to vocalise their dislike of something rather than their fondness of something else. Seems kind of insecure.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7825451
Well it just seems like it would be very hard to not develop a set of favorites. But I guess what you're saying is that you are cool with everything. Everything is equal in that you like it all.

[Anonymous No.]

Oh no, how awkward.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7825445
What I dislike about that is how they all try to force those opinions onto others, then complain whey they don't share them.
I'd rather have no opinions and be able to enjoy everything equally, thank you.

[Anonymous No.]

I think it would be a good thing if everyone making tier lists never posted again.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7825466
From playing the games a lot I found some things about certain ones that I just don't like. You can't really have no opinions about something you've explored in detail.

[Anonymous No.]

The issue isn't about having opinions. Its okay to like or dislike characters, or games, or songs, or what have you.

The problem is assuming everyone is either going to share your opinion, or that those that don't are somehow lesser beings. Which is why OP probably should have re-worded things.

Simply put, there is absolutely nothing at all to be gained from putting down someone else's opinion. Theres absolutely no reason at all to share the fact that you hate something, because no meaningful discussion can even come from it at all.

I mean think about it. You say you hate something, and there are only two possibilities:

A) "I agree, that sucks"
or
B) "NO U!"

Rather than trying to interact with others based on your dislikes, you should be comparing your likes. By starting negative, the thread is certainly going to have a negative middle and end as well.

Of course this isn't to say that critique doesn't have it's place. Its perfectly fine to mention that you disliked something, or say how it might have been better for you. But focusing on such subjective things and treating them as objective points cannot possibly end well for anyone involved.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7825646
Welcome to human ego.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7825646

Like I said in a previous post before deciding I don't feel autistic enough to argue on /jp/ today, too many people here think of opinions as dichotomies: "I like x, therefore I MUST dislike y".

I like Tohsaka, therefore Saber sucks.
I like Higurashi, therefore Umineko sucks.
I like Arc, therefore Ciel sucks.
I like Mokou, therefore Kaguya sucks.
I like Sakuya, therefore Sanae sucks.

etc, etc

It's one thing to genuinely dislike something and have reasons for that -- it's quite another to dislike something out of some bizarre obligation and compulsion to be negative.

[Anonymous No.]

> it's quite another to dislike something out of some bizarre obligation and compulsion to be negative.

Unfortunately, that will be most of the discussion you will have on 4chan (or really, in any situation, for that matter).

In all my years, I think the best thing I ever learned was how to diffuse that kind of situation in person. These simple words will let you avoid so much possible drama related to "lol opinions":

"Not my opinion, but thats cool". And mean it. Thats the most important part. I have won over so many people to things I like that way its ridiculous. People tend to have preconceived notions about things, and part of dismantling those notions is changing their opinion about the people who hold opinions opposite theirs.

Doesn't always work all that well on the internet though, because someone always gets all uppity.

[Anonymous No.]

But yeah, about OP's topic:

While I wouldn't say SA is the last good touhou game (UFO was delightful except for dying because chasing after UFOs is way too tempting, and TD is actually pretty high on my list right now), it was definitely a good game. I think its funny that no one is really brining up how fan reaction against SA was just as bad as TD!

People originally said that Utsuho's theme was the most boring boss theme of the bunch. Which is funny since now a lot of people list it as one of their favorites (I know it always gets me pumped). The same happened for UFO, with Nue's theme being called a "bargain bin UN Owen". I think people have grown fond of her and her theme though.

People originally said the character design was terrible (Utsuho and Satori in particular), yet I'm willing to bet everyone has at least one of the UFO cast pretty high on their list of favorite characters. Or can admit they were actually pretty decent, at the very least.

(continued...)

[Anonymous No.]

continued from >>7825717


Despite people liking the life shard system, people HATED the bomb system, and the fact that despite having a partner system, you never see your partner. I will say that the bomb system complaint is still a pretty big complaint.

So yeah, we have to put up with this every single time. But I have a theory for you, gentlemen. I think I know why this keeps happening. I don't think its the new games themselves. For the most part the quality is pretty consisten (or even improving) throughout the series, in pretty much every department (except for some drops in art, but thats completely subjective).

The problem is that people have grown attached to existing characters, and Zun is almost completely unwilling to revisit old characters. Maybe he's afraid that if he doesn't create at least 5 new lolis each game that people wont like it? Or maybe Touhou truly is only a way to keep creating neat characters for him?

Either way, once a character is created, they will get some attention from him within the game itself, then are barely mentioned again. And I think thats what gives people such pessimistic views of newer games.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7825718
>and the fact that despite having a partner system, you never see your partner.
you see your partner, well, in the endings...

[Anonymous No.]

>>7825736

Personally, I was hoping to see some art of some of my favorite characters during conversations, bombs, or even as a sprite or something.

I really think Zun missed an opportunity with the signal mechanic. Having it actually affect gameplay would have been nice, such as getting more out of your partner character.

In any case, I think I just wanted more official art of Nitori, Patchouli, Suika, and Alice.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7825718
I agree with your post(s), especially regarding older characters. I think a game with strictly old characters would be quite popular.

I don't know why he needs to pump out so many new ones still. Maybe cut it back to 1 or 2 in a game.

But he does what he does and damned what anyone else thinks, which is why I both like and hate Zun.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7825736
I liked the ending where Reimu returns to hern home after a long trip down, recieves a cat as a gift from her loving partner Yukari, drinks beer with her and then they have some hot yuri sex.

[Anonymous No.]

LOLOPINIONS:

I actually really liked tying in bombs and shot power into the same pool of resources. Lunatic MoF was pretty fun when you observed the stages, finding out when you could use a bomb and instantly get back to 4.0 power almost instantly. The problem was people were bombing too much and complaining when they had no shot power left. Stop sucking. The scoring system wasn't half bad either, but taking out the graze counter was kinda sad.

SA, for me, was fucking fantastic. I loved the music, the bullet presentation and the unique patterns. What I didn't like however, was how unbalanced the shot types were, made worse by the fact that ReimuA's bomb was the only one that you could still get graze with.

UFO was a barrel of bullshit at times and the shot types were even more unbalanced this time. Sanae was just a fucking rape train that could clear the entire screen with ease and still take down bosses fairly quickly. It was still fun though, and Byakurin was a really great final boss. Also, there were also some really unique bullet patterns here too, though there was a little too much glowing. The scoring system was actually a pretty good blend of risk vs reward (sometimes, to a frustrating extent).

TD? Holy crap why is this game so easy and the scoring system so bad? It's like ZUN knew you'd be spending a good portion of the game sitting on top of bosses and thus, spent very little time on the bullet presentation and patterns. I'm actually bored while playing this, which is depressing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7825816

Not liking the bombing in MOF/SA has nothing to do with sucking or not. I didn't exploit bombs in MOF and it was still my fastest 1cc (only 5 attempts with Reimu).

I actually like the idea of tying resources to a central pool in some games, but the issue is that the only time you ever need bombs in MOF is during bosses, and losing power during a boss fight is fucking crippling. It basically means that once you bombed or lost a life, you're shit out of luck and can't really make a comeback because you're fighting an uphill battle at full power.

To be completely frank, I never even got why there's a shot progression in the series in the first place. It literally serves zero purpose from a game design point of view, and makes no sense in-universe either.

But then again, that's just my opinion.

I think my major complaint with recent games would actually be that point items are utterly worthless now. I would like a reason to collect them other than score.

[Anonymous No.]

I suppose this thread is the best to ask in.

Are there any fan-made music albums solely based on this games music? Either way could I get some recommendations for albums with decent SA music? Genre really doesn't matter

[Anonymous No.]

>>7825864

I rather liked Sync.Arts' rendition of Satori and Parsee's themes. I can't quite remember the name of the album though. Might be something like "Heart Chain" ?

As far as all SA stuff, I have no clue, I tend to mix and match playlists to the point I don't remember the album.

[Youmu Konpaku !MyonHUTINA No.]

>>7825864
東方温泉祭 is the best I've come across.

猫物語-ネコモノガタリ- is also decent.

[Remilia Scarlet !reMILiaJAM No.]

>>7825864
(東方紅楼夢4) [=NeutraL=] DARKNESS
http://www.mediafire.com/?thwgmgqxymg

[Anonymous No.]

>>7825816
I like how shot power tied in with bombs, I just hated how crappy all the bombs felt. Besides ReimuA, none of them lasted very long, and none of them really felt like a bomb, compared to how they were in most of the other games.

Not only that, but all of the shot types felt crappy. Marisa/Patchouli was the only other one I liked, everything else felt kinda meh.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7825872
>>7825875
>>7825882

Thank you all and anyone who posts after this, I will check these out later on. At least this thread proved productive

[Anonymous No.]

>>7825864
I liked Tokyo Active NEETs' Subterranean Suite.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7825864
TAMUSIC 火獄の東方子守唄
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5pKAAB3qcA

[Anonymous No.]

>>7825864
O-Life Japan has one for SA music.

Best version of Lullaby of a Demonic Hell and Be of Good Cheer that I've heard yet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMruuDQp8Jw

>>7825875
Oh wait, he posted it. Well it's all runes to me, but I second that post.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7825857
>Not liking the bombing in MOF/SA has nothing to do with sucking or not.
>but the issue is that the only time you ever need bombs in MOF is during bosses

'Stop sucking' was me fucking around. But
>people were bombing too much and complaining when they had no shot power left
Is valid though. You had to make a decision that you either bomb this attack, making the next one last a little longer or risk dying. In a way, this forces you to learn to avoid spellcards, or at least identify the ones that you have the most trouble with and can pretty much skip.

But yeah, point items do feel a little pointless now. I like point = lives systems, else what end up with is a solid line between score and survival.

>>7825886
Yeah, SA's bombs weren't very flashy at all and ReimuA and MarisaB were the only shot types really worth using.

TD's balance seems a little better, but Sanae really feels like a spare wheel. Faster spirit charging doesn't seem to cut it, because I still find myself activating trance more often with Marisa and she's also pulling the highest scores.

[Anonymous No.]

10desires a shit

[Anonymous No.]

>>7825925

Well, the problem is that up until MOF, you were expected to bomb pretty often. Zun didn't seriously expect you to perfect each boss. Bombs were there to help you survive just a bit more. They were functionally equivilant to an extra life that you have to activate to get.

But the problem is that bombs do not serve that function in MOF. Bombing was so disadvantageous, you ended up dying with power left because you didn't want to waste the bomb. In ANY other Touhou game, you have the equivalent of three times as many chances as you have lives (or more). Contrast with MOF where you can bomb like crazy during the stage (where it doesn't matter except for score and gaining lives). This makes bombs usless for the ACTUAL difficult parts of the game. You know, the parts which you might actually use a bomb.

From a game design point of view, the system did not work. It COULD have worked with other mechanics in place, but as far as MOF goes, you couldn't just play it your first time through and have a decent chance of passing. This is because if you played it like a previous Touhou game, you would get your ass kicked, because to get enough lives to pass it, you would need to purposely waste bombs at preset points you would have NO idea were coming.

Contrast with literally any other Touhou game, where you could feasibly pass it your first time on just the resources you are given.

That said, MOF was not "hard" as far as shot patterns go for the most part. The issue more lied in a severe reduction of resources if you didn't know exactly when to bomb. And I honestly feel having to plan your game out in Touhou is missing the point of a danmaku game.

[Youmu Konpaku !MyonHUTINA No.]

>>7828489
>Bombing was so disadvantageous, you ended up dying with power left because you didn't want to waste the bomb.
There's no possible way this could be correct. At minimum you'll have 3.odd power after a death anyways, and back to 'full' after a spellcard or two. It's always advantageous to bomb.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7828275
That sure contributed nicely to the discussion, man. Your heartfelt and well thought out words have totally convinced me that a game I like is terrible.

Yup.

[Youmu Konpaku !MyonHUTINA No.]

Oh right, missed this bit.
>And I honestly feel having to plan your game out in Touhou is missing the point of a danmaku game.
It's missing out on the point of a Touhou game, to be fair, but you can't really say that having to plan your route out is contrary to the ideal of a bullet hell, considering one of the first and many of the best are based entirely around that system.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7828515

Not really. Picture this:

You're on a boss you're having difficulty on (probably Kanako). Lets say you started out with 4 power. A spellcard in, you make a mistake and have to bomb. Normally in another Touhou game, that would be the end of it. You'd have a couple bombs left, but no other disadvantage.

But in MOF, there are three issues that make it suck for you. Since you bombed, the next nonspell is going to last longer, which increase your odds of being hit. If you end up having to bomb twice, you put yourself at a MASSIVE disadvantage.

And, if you happen to get hit, especially when at no power, you are now FUCKED. You can no longer use bombs, and you take forever to kill a card for the rest of the fight. Sure, you probably shouldn't have bombed that much, but not everyone is perfect.

Besides, the point is that in previous Touhou games you COULD do that. You could bomb 5 times on the boss, die, bomb 2 more times, die, bomb 2 more times, die, bomb 2 more times, etc etc. That is equivalent of 14+ lives off of only 3 or so lives and some stocked up bombs.

So no, resources wise, you are absolutely gimped in MOF. Thank god the game itself was easy as shit (I don't see why people complain about TD's difficulty was too low. Its a lot harder than MOF ever was)

[Anonymous No.]

>>7828524

I don't know. Can you seriously argue that you wouldn't be able to beat most danmaku games on normal your first couple times through? I'll go ahead and say that my experience with cave shooters is limited (due to finances rather than desire to play), but even those seem to be pretty straightfoward. Shots are flying at you, don't get hit.

I mean, fuck, Ikaruga's system seemed like something you would have to play through to learn when to swap polarity, but I honestly think you could feasibly pass that your first time through if you at least understood the mechanic at work and had passable dodging skills.

[Youmu Konpaku !MyonHUTINA No.]

>>7828538
>And, if you happen to get hit, especially when at no power, you are now FUCKED. You can no longer use bombs
Er... you get power items that bring you back up to over 3 power no matter how low you were. You always have a minimum of 3 bombs per life in MoF, like most other Touhou games.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7828489
>Well, the problem is that up until MOF, you were expected to bomb pretty often.
You're expected to bomb often in MoF too, but more logically.

>Contrast with MOF where you can bomb like crazy during the stage
This is what I was saying before. People were bombing too much and complaining that they had no shot power left.

>where it doesn't matter except for score and gaining lives
If you spent more than 5 minutes studying the stages, you'd notice the game is riddled with areas where you can bomb and almost instantly get your power back. What's even better is that these areas are usually when there's a shitload of bullets on the screen.

>This makes bombs usless for the ACTUAL difficult parts of the game.
See above.

>From a game design point of view, the system did not work.
Not a blind run, no. What are you doing playing these games once anyway?

>if you played it like a previous Touhou game, you would get your ass kicked
This generally happens with other shmups too.

>because to get enough lives to pass it
There's two life drops in MoF and an extra 4 through points at 20, 40, 80 and 150 million. Blissfully easy numbers to reach. That gives you a pool of 8 lives for the course of the game, which sounds fine.

[Field too long]

[Anonymous No.]

>>7828564
>Contrast with literally any other Touhou game, where you could feasibly pass it your first time on just the resources you are given.
Whether you pass a game on your first attempt or not depends on how skilled you are to begin with. Blind runs are always a bit messy but having a score = lives system actually makes things much easier.

>severe reduction of resources
It's about on par. I've heard more complaints about TD not dishing out enough lives, but that's because they aren't dealing with the system properly.

>And I honestly feel having to plan your game out in Touhou is missing the point of a danmaku game.
Confirmed for not playing many bullet hell games at all.

MoF is actually an insanely fun and incredibly satisfying experience on lunatic.

[Youmu Konpaku !MyonHUTINA No.]

>>7828558
The majority of danmaku games don't have difficulties to speak of, and their default difficulty is generally very much too difficult to clear on the first time. Especially Ikaruga, that game requires much memorization. (Double especially since it's not really dodging skills that determine a clear or not in it.)

[Youmu Konpaku !MyonHUTINA No.]

I'm really sorry for keeping breaking up my posts like this... I'm a bit distracted.

Anyways.
>my experience with cave shooters is limited (due to finances rather than desire to play)
There's a large number of very very good Cave games on MAME, meaning you can sink your teeth into DoDonPachi and DOJ, ESP Ra.De and Galuda, Ketsui, etc. without paying anything. I highly recommend it, and there's really no reason not to.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7828561

Maybe I'm just remembering the power you got to being lower than it was. Though my other points stand, since the reduction in power kinda sucks and makes it way more likely you'll be hit.

>>7828564

When I was talking about bombing like crazy, I meant the people that were doing it right and getting more power back than they used to bomb. You do that pretty fucking often. Theres almost no reason not to bomb during the stages because as long as you know a single part to milk, you can get full power back before the boss.

>Not a blind run, no. What are you doing playing these games once anyway?
Granted, I think most people don't beat them on their first try, but when you think about it, there is absolutely nothing preventing you from doing so other than your own skill. And thats what I like about the games. I feel like its my fault I sucked to bad.

With MOF, my first time I was was like "what the fuck? I'm at no power now, bombs suck". Which, they honestly did. They were underwhelming, they didn't change based on shot type, they didn't last all that long or feel like they did much damage.

Of course on my second run or so I figured out that you could milk points and power from bombing massive groups of enemies. My point is more that with the other games, the only reason I was dying was because I wasn't dodging well enough or I was bombing too late. There wasn't anything that really required memorization at all.

>There's two life drops in MoF and an extra 4 through points at 20, 40, 80 and 150 million. Blissfully easy numbers to reach. That gives you a pool of 8 lives for the course of the game, which sounds fine.

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[Anonymous No.]

Granted. Especially easy to reach early if you know when to bomb, as well. Of course I still say that having 6 lives 6 bombs and getting 2 bombs after each death actually adds up to more chances, especially when you factor in the loss of shot power making cards last longer and the length and power of the bombs being less than previous games.

>Confirmed for not playing many bullet hell games at all.
What I mean is that the reason I play these kinds of games is because I like dodging bullets. I don't like memorizing patterns to do so because I feel like I'm not even really dodging legitimate attacks at that point. Its kind of like if attacks like Patchouli's attack from STB were present in the actual game, where you HAVE to bomb at set points to survive. Would you feel like you're dodging legitimate attacks, or that the boss could just fill the screen with unavoidable death at any time, but just chooses not to do so?

I'll admit, no I don't play on Lunatic, and I don't do score runs, and I'm not really good at the games yet, and I haven't played as many more difficult danmaku games as I'd like.

But should that really matter? I rather enjoy this type of game. I've enjoyed shooters since first playing xevious, gradius, raiden II, and so on when I was a kid. I enjoy dodging shit, and I enjoy feeling like when I die, it is MY fault for not being good enough to dodge, not the game's for being a jerk.

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[Anonymous No.]

I enjoy Touhou because it puts your brain to max, trying to find a safe path in a maze of death. Having parts you litterally HAVE to memorize sort of negates that element for me. Thats part of why I both loved and hated the UFO mechanic of 12.

>MoF is actually an insanely fun game
Never said it wasn't. Once I got the hang of having to use bombs differently, I had a lot of fun with it. I was merely pointing out why many people seem to dislike MOF, despite it actually being a rather rockin' game.

>>7828587

I've been wanting to get legitimate copies of some cave shooters (like Mushihimesama) but the only thing I've been able to find is Death Smiles, which I get the feeling doesn't really count. Its fun and all, but doesn't have the same feel for me. But I will go and find the stuff for Mame, since I'm pretty sure I'm not going to be able to buy the older stuff anyway.