umineko discussion

[Anonymous No.]

i am the only one who find ep8 extremly depressing ?
seriously, how can a autor create a serie during 4 years and end it with the main character get suicide ?

.He planned that since the begining ? hell not

higurashi was hope, friendship, emotional, joy.
and umineko ? nothing about that. since ep 6, r07 himself lost his joy of writing, that's also easy to notice and that's why umineko failed.

my opinion ? umineko = no hope

r07 himself is ange and featherine ( catharsis ) his hope and arrogance, and his depressed feel.

[Anonymous No.]

>i am the only one who find ep8 extremly depressing ?

Nope

[Anonymous No.]

>main character get suicide
What.
Also, stop typing like a retard or fuck off.

[Anonymous No.]

Where's the 100% patch? I don't feel like using ATLAS to read this shit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7737765
not out yet. WH is at 55%.

[Anonymous No.]

I was expecting awesome logic battles like episode 5.
I got detective minigames about fake truths and GOATS, GOATS EVERYWHERE.

[Anonymous No.]

Higurashi="Destroy the delusions and find out the truth to create a future with hope!"
Umineko="There never was any hope or future for you, hide the truth and live in your delusions forever!"

[Anonymous No.]

>i am the only one who find ep8 extremly disappointing
got that for you

you were kind of expecting it because all of chiru was a clusterfuck though

the only people who like episode 8 are the pretentious ones who think they can interpret the chunky, multicolored vomit ryuukishi07 calls depth. it goes without saying that they actually can't

[Anonymous No.]

>>7738387
5/6 were the best.

[Anonymous No.]

Battler turned into the worst mc ever made, I mean what ever happened to turning the chess board over? what happened to him never giving up? He just went with the flow and turned to a piece of shit that did nothing by the end.

[Anonymous No.]

>main character get suicide ?
I skim through threads and see this.
fuck man.
spoiler please?

Meanwhile at Witch-hunt.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7738433
Sounds like /jp/ to me.

[Anonymous No.]

>the main character get suicide ?
I think you're mistaken. Battler is still alive and well, living the life with his new Hanyuu waifu.

[Anonymous No.]

I had already worked out Battler was a middle-aged amnesiac in a wheelchair reliving his memories through writing with Hanyuu from the hints in the first two episodes.

[Anonymous No.]

What was even the point of this game in the very end, battler did nothing, the money went to the true master mind of 1998, nothing was brought to justice or light... everything was just.... all over the place and nothing really happened or at least their was no development in the story.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7738433
>Higurashi="Destroy the delusions and find out the truth to create a future with hope!"
that's why Higurashi is better.
Because there's something you can fight. Umiunko is simply stupid.

[Anonymous No.]

I would've liked it better if it had just stayed at "finding the truth" even if the truth was tragic.
R07 just muddled it a fucking lot, too much.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7739530
me too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7739530
But you find the truth and it's tragic. You can feel depressed about it, if you want, but the characters in the story want to move on.

[Anonymous No.]

Umineko is disappointing because you discover the truth, and it is what pretty much no reader wanted, and as an added bonus, that's it. There is no redemption, no compensation, just despair. Nearly everyone dies, Ange remains forever alone, Maria and Rosa will never become a happy family, and Battler gets amnesia and a full white head of hair at like 40.

It's not even bittersweet, since Ryukishi forcefully excised the rather important sweet portion.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7738433
Hahaha, it's like 28 days later and 28 weeks later.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7739582
I can see why that would upset the reader, but it doesn't make it a bad story. Umineko isn't an idealistic story like Higurashi; there is happiness to be found admist the tragedy, but you have to look for it yourself.

For example, Ange remained without her family, but she was able to pick up the pieces and carry on with her life. If you want to take a pessimistic outlook, she's still miserable, but if you keep an open mind you'll see she made the best of what she had.

In real life, people don't just magically get saved or avenged when a tragedy happens; Umineko was so realistic that it simply disheartened people who look for happy endings and justice in their fiction to escape what life is often really like.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7739582
But that's was the point of magic. You can live in your subjective reality where everything is fine. I think /jp/ should be a great magicians.

[Anonymous No.]

>Implying a good story can't have a sad ending.

You're a moron OP, Umineko has hope all over the novel, the hope to a happy ending (I'm in the EP6). Also learn to [/spoiler] before being a gigantic faggot.
Yes I'm angry, the reason is the spoiler. I hope you get permabanned or something worse.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7739669
Delusions are delusions. As much of a clusterfuck Chaos;Head was, it handled this far, far better than Umineko did.

The fact that Ryukishi might be encouraging living in your own faux reality is slightly disturbing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7738793
...what was there for him to do? His family was killed by a murderer whom is now dead. There's nothing he can do. Meta-battler, the one we followed the whole time, still did things in ep 8.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7739658
Something that helped me see it as less depressing was that Tohya did get the opportunity to save his family's memory from the Witch Hunt. The situation where they were stirred up and wanted to find the truth about the incident supposedly buried in the stories was something that he was largely responsible for, since he had written his first four novels before he remembered anything, so you could say that it's an extension of his original sin. But by writing Twilight and undermining the idea that the stories contained any truth, he was able to start undoing that damage and maybe convince some of his readers that his family wasn't just a pack of potential murderers. So it's a bit hopeful in that sense, I think.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7739805
I wouldn't even say he encouraged it, rather than just displayed it as one of the central themes of his story. It would have been encouraging it had it not had an equally strong counterpoint the entire way through.

Whether you want to write then off as "delusions" and say it was badly handled is entirely up to you, but it sounds like a problem with your suspension of disbelief rather than a fundamental problem with the idea itself.

[Anonymous No.]

So I dropped this novel but I'm curious.

Who is the actual murderer, or is it multiple ones with some weird-ass, multiple timelime bullshit?

[Anonymous No.]

>>7740338

We... don't actually know.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7740338
It never does say, because episode 8 is horrible. You can basically believe it's anyone, but mainly it's George, Battler, Kyrie, and Yasu who are the centre pieces of suspicion.

I personally like to think Battler did it.

[Anonymous No.]

Did he seriously not even answer that question?

Holy shit, the thing that got me so far in this VN was the whole who-did-it/detective vibe and theories.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7740362
>I personally like to think Battler did it.

I think this works the best thematically, myself.

The only Battler we ever see is the Battler of Yasu's delusions anyway. We have no clue what he was actually like.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7740338
Gohda did it. He is the true culprit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7740378

This is the wrong attitude to have when reading Umineko, unfortunately.

You're supposed to like it for the characters and the meta-battles and little else. You will hate it otherwise.

[Anonymous No.]

Umineko Rei, bros. He confirmed. There, he will open the cat box since so many were dying for the truth.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7740338
A little of column A, a little of column B. Each game is a novel published in the future about a possible version of the incident.

The culprit of EP1-4 is Shannon=Kanon=Beatrice.
The culprit of EP5 was originally Natsuhi, but then it was rewritten to make Beatrice the culprit. This one had a weird setup since it went through multiple authors.
The culprit of EP6 is Erika.
The culprits of the EP7 tea party are Rudolf and Kyrie.
The culprits of the EP8 murder game are Rudolf, Kyrie, and Battler.
The culprits in reality were Rudolf and Kyrie according to Eva's diary, but Eva's account is full of extra shit she must have guessed about because she wasn't present for it. So the full circumstances are deliberately left unknown.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7740384
Oh look, a Nanjohdatrice theorist. I thought your kind vanished once Shkanontricenzobatter2 thoroughly debunked your logic?

[Anonymous No.]

>>7740396
He could lock himself up in it and never write such stories again, that would be the best solution.

[Anonymous No.]

Pretty sure the culprit was Kinzo for giving birth to all those horrible children.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7740464
>Krauss.
>Horrible.
Nice try, bro. He and Eva were definitely the only two good kids in the group of 4.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7740360
>>7740362
>>7740378
Ange reads the diary, containing the truth and jumps from the building, refusing to believe it.
This background was one of flashbacks that were supposed to show up among others when she reads the diary, but was commented out in the script.

>>7740379
And the one Ange mets in the future and is glad to see.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7740464
>Kinzo for giving birth

I wouldn't put it past Kinzo.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7740435
>Eva's account is full of extra shit she must have guessed about because she wasn't present for it.
What about Featherine's and Hachijou's reds?
>So the full circumstances are deliberately left unknown.
They were left unknown to the whole world in Umineko universe, because the diary wasn't opened for the public. We, readers, have a little extra-dimensional, meta insight, if you wish.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7740477
On the other hand, isn't the reality of Ange's dive off of the skyscraper in pretty serious question? I mean, there's something like three or four different versions of her death, plus two possibilities where she didn't die.

[Anonymous No.]

Isn't half the point of the Ep7 Tea Party that it could just as easily been ANY of the adults?

Though, I can't see Natsuhi killing anyone like that. She shoves babies off of cliffs instead.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7740491
>What about Featherine's and Hachijou's reds?
Based on what Eva said about the diary in EP8 and how the EP7 tea party was set up, the diary could contain her truthful observations of what happened AND her biased interpretation of what happened when she wasn't around. In that case the diary does actually have the truth written in it like Featherine/Hachijou said, but it's written in a really misleading way.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7740378

It's multiple culprits. Yasu is the culprit for EP1 and 2, and is implied to be the culprit for EP3 and 4. In Chiru the culprits are Rudolf, Kyrie, and Battler.

[None !Nipaa0mi0. No.]

>>7740567
Ryukishi: "But if you approach the theme of the story like a book critic, then you are supposed to build the theory, that Eva is not the culprit but knows the real culprit and is shouldering the blame and accepting the hatred for that person, and that might be because she is hiding something to protect Ange."

Eva batman is correct. And the only person that could traumatize Ange that much would be her mother/father as the culprits so that must be the answer.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7746254
Eva hides that she is the true culprit because Ange would suffer even more if she was sure she had lived with her parents' killer.

[None !Nipaa0mi0. No.]

>>7746343
She wouldn't be "shouldering the blame" if she deserved it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7740560
That's what so horrible about Umineko. It could have been anyone, what ended up being the real culprit was just a matter of chance. Well then fuck you...

>>7746254
All good, but there's still the problem of a fucking megaton bomb in the basement. Chances that Beatrice actually planned to kill everyone but she "lost her bet" are high. The very existence of that thing is criminal and ridiculously dumb in itself.

[Anonymous No.]

Just let me make a recap of how shitty the Ushiromiya and their servants are:

Kinzo: He is an adulterer. There are uncorfimed hints that he staged the massacre of the italians and his comrades back in 1945. He is a ruthless moneygrabber, ruined many families in the process. He illegally withold military material including enough explosives to send half of his island to kingdom come. As if that wasn't enough he created and kept active a self destruct mechanism that could be set off by any idiot, even accidentally. He raised his own daughter in total seclusion and ignorance about the external world. He had non consensual sex with his own daughter. He repeatedly abused his own children, verbally and physically. Considering what kind of adults they ended up becoming, he did an awesome job. He became an alchoholic

Genji: He helped Kinzo performing all the above crimes and/or remained silent in front of them and made everyone else's mouth keep shut. The same apply to anything that he was ordered to do by Beatrice after Kinzo's death. From a certain perspective this could be seen as an admirable act from a servant, but morally it's still shit. In case "Lion" is actually a boy, however, he'd be the main responsible of a forced feminization without any kind of psychological support. Such stuff has been proved to have severe consequences on a child's mind.

Nanjo: Pretty much like Genji but on a lesser degree of responsibility.

Krauss: Guilty of embezzlement. He is also absolutely inept and retarded, not a crime but still pathetic. He almost brought the whole family on the verge of bankruptcy. It's not confirmed but since he always lied about his investments' success, he might as well have lied even after Kinzo died. He is guilty of hiding the death status of his father.

[continue]

[Anonymous No.]

Hideyoshi: He is known for engaging in robbery and black market activities when he was young. His crimes are however somehow justified by the circusmstances he lived in at the time. It's unclear if he really became an honest man later.

Kyrie: Crazy and calculating bitch. She has no remorse nor any sense of morality. She helped Rudolf in his swindling activities. She confessed to be ready to kill Asumu at any time, so there's a clear "mens rea". It is unclear if she actually performed the crime or not. Along with Rudolf she is a prime suspect of the whole Rokkenjima incident.

George: See Eva. He might have played dirty in his attempt to make Shannon forget Battler but that's unconfirmed.

Shannon/Kanon/Yasu/Beatrice: Unconfirmed but there are strong hints that s/he planned and maybe partially carried out the mass murder of the whole Ushiromiya family and servants including her friends and lovers. S/he is responsible for performing several practical jokes who caused at least one serious injury. This crime is aggravated by inane reasons. Nothing of that was even remotedly strictly necessary. It is however somehow mitigated by her/his appaling insanity.


Kumasawa: See Nanjo but with an even lesser degree of responsibility. At least she was a nice person especially towards Yasu.

[continue]

[Anonymous No.]

Eva: Obsessive bitch, he raised his son with an iron fist for the sole purpose of making him achieve a dream that she couldn't herself. It's unconfirmed but according to the world George was pure shit, he was even accused of being an Hikikomori by the goats. Even if those might be just rumors it's hard to believe he's the paragon of perfection as he was sold in the various games.
Eva didn't do any better at raising Ange. Though it might not be all her fault, she certainly didn't make the situation any better.

Rudolf: He is known to have engaged in scamming activities when he was young. He's also known for being a womanizer of the worst kind. His company was sued for copyright infringement and he was apparently 100% guilty. He deprived a mother from her own child and bribed physicians to cover up the whole story, this one is a serious crime. And of course he is an adulterer. Lastly he is a prime suspect of the whole rokkenjima incident.

Rosa: Child abuser with serious anger management issues. She's also guilty of repeatedly abandoning a minor to herself for whole days and for absolutely no justifiable reasons.
While she can't be held responsible for Beatrice2's death, she let the whole matter kept under wraps even after she became an adult.

Natsuhi: She is the murderer of a maid and guilty of attempted murder of a child. Along with Krauss she's guilty of hiding the death status of her father in law.

[continue]

[Anonymous No.]

Gohda: The poor guy really had no guilt except for his lazyness when it came to certain tasks. You could also say he was a bit too full of himself and treated other servants unkindly, but nothing major.

Jessica: No guilt that I can think of, not even morally. She was just a bit jealous and superficial.

Maria: 9 years old with a fucked up mind, 'nuff said. She can't be accused of anything.


And now Battler. I left him for last on purpose to point out how his only "crime" was the fact he forgot a promise he made when he was 12 years old and after receiving a major shock when he lost his mother and found that his father was an adulterer in the ark of a few days.

According to what Ryuukishi wants to make us believe, this sin was the main cause of the whole tragedy, in spite of all the shit that was done by the rest of his family.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7746469
>>7746471
>>7746472
>>7746476
Yes, they're all horrible people. Thus why Erika is the best character

[Anonymous No.]

>>7746471
>>7746469
>>7746472
>>7746476
Nobody else had a bad family, it was just Battler who had a shitty life.

[Anonymous No.]

IMHO Genji, Nanjo and Kumasawa are the most mysterious characters in Umineko. Does anyone agree with me? Dark youth, access to the gold, Yasu's accomplices. I have no doubts what in early after-war period Kumasawa was brilliant Sakuya-type maid, Genji was Kinzo's killer and Nanjo was fuken bloody doctor. And they were on mission in Hong Kong to sell few Kinzo's ingots to the triad.

[Anonymous No.]

Was Gaap supposed to be Nanjo? I mean, it would make sense, as Nanjo has access to all the bodies being, you know, a doctor. But Gaap is shown to be Beatrice's best friend, and I'm pretty sure that Nanjo barely shared any lines with Yashkannontrice. If anything, Jessica would fit that role better.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7746617
Gaap was suppose to be a real person?
Then who would Ronove be? Genji?

[Anonymous No.]

>>7746640
I always assumed that anything in the meta-world/anything magic was representing something else. So, if that were the case, then, yes, Ronove would be Genji.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7746640

Captain said "Yes!" Because Genji's real surname is Ronove!

[Anonymous No.]

>>7746617
Gaap=Shannon. Note how she fights George where he and Shannon usually meet at that time, and the rough similarities of their outfits. EP7 confirms this, revealing that Gaap was Yasu's prototype Beatrice who she made up as a scapegoat because she got butthurt that people scolded her for forgetting where she put things.

[Anonymous No.]

There was like no point at all in this story. By the end of it i asked myself, wait, What the fuck was the point of the hidden rooms that took so much to read about? What about 1998 and how that guy got all the money in the very end, what about battler who said he would save his family, i mean wasn't the whole point for him to turn the chess board over and fuck shit up? Instead nothing amazing happened and battler just gave up. What was the point of presenting tons of mysteries, small and large, from battlers other mother to 34 freaking the fuck out talking about her past or or all the parents back stories, if they mean nothing in the end and are never brought up again? I mean the very end of ep7 was actually good, it left battler running to Rudolf in a cliffhanger of sorts, but it meant nothing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7746737
Umineko is like real life.
Real life is not like pretty stories where everyting has a purpose and is neatly resolved at the end.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7746837
Well i read umineko for a story and a ending, not fucking real life.

[Anonymous No.]

Personally, i don' even care about this shit series anymore. I'm not even sure to know what R07 wants me to in this piece of meta-shit narration.

I just want WH to translated the last half of ep viii so i can delete all my umineko folder let this giant waste of time let go

[Anonymous No.]

>>7747216
Then you'll wait a long time.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7740242
which would all be fine if he didn't call the wichhunters fucking goats in it.

[Anonymous No.]

Get this shit off our NEET board.

>>>/a/

[Anonymous No.]

>>7747259
Trying too hard to fit in.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7747266
An Uminekofag telling other people they're trying too hard? Shouldn't yiou be off roleplaying your fanfiction where Jessica is the culprit on /a/?

[Anonymous No.]

>>7746737
>What the fuck was the point of the hidden rooms that took so much to read about?
Beatrice's mystery.

>What about 1998 and how that guy got all the money in the very end
Ange doesn't need them and is better off without them.

>what about battler who said he would save his family
He was wrong. It's like he was in Purgatory, not realizing that everyone's dead and clinging to the life. But he can't save anyone by defeating the witch, because she didn't kill them.

>What was the point of presenting tons of mysteries, small and large, from battlers other mother to 34 freaking the fuck out talking about her past or or all the parents back stories
Red herring, character and world development.

>it meant nothing
It meant that it's unknown what happened to Battler, while all others are dead. Turns out he has actually survived.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7747327
you don't get it do you, there was no resolve, we were waiting for battler to bounce back and do something, like reverse all the bullshit and yasu, but he did nothing and was a complete let down and instead of character development, we got will, who was random,not needed, and also did nothing. Battler didn't even have a personalty in the answer arcs, he was a terrible main character.

[Anonymous No.]

Umineko = Clue with demons, bitches in fancy dresses, and goats.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7747383
>you don't get it do you

Oh I get it. It didn't go the way you wanted, so you don't like it. Still doesn't mean it's shit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7747383
Oh, he was reversing the bullshit alright, that is, the one he could reverse. In ep5, in ep6, especially if you consider "genius Battler" idea. He won't tell you the answer in ep7, because it's harmful for him and his remaining relatives, so we got Will to do the dirty job. In ep8 he was again "reversing" enough and supporting Ange.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7747401
When so many people are pissed and disgusted about a work, including people that previously claimed to love it, I think there is objectively something wrong.

You say "it didn't go the way you wanted", but clearly this game didn't sell itself as something different than what I wanted.

It's as if you advertise the biggest heavy metal concert ever and then you start singing Justin Bieber's songs. People will get pissed, and rightly so.

And no don't tell me it's the people's fault for misunderstanding. We are way too many and the only common denominator is Ryuukishi. It's HIS fault.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7747598
>When so many people are pissed and disgusted about a work

There isn't actually that many people.

A lot of people probably DO like Umineko, but don't speak up about it for fear of being trolled into oblivion by a very vocal minority.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7748425
Wait a minute, didn’t we establish in EP6&7 that Beatrice was in fact created from Battler? So it goes something like this.

Battler creates Beatrice through his idea of a perfect woman.

Beatrice creates Battler in the image of the perfect man.

Beatrice has a funny habit of killing and resurrecting Battler.

Battler keeps reviving Beatrice in his gameboards after he becomes the new Beatrice.

Now to put it all together:

Battler creates Beatrice who creates Battler who revives Beatrice who creates Battler who creates Beatrice. It’s an endless cycle, that’s the true meaning of endless magic.

There’s no need to solve any murders, everything was imagined up by characters who only existed in each others’ imagination!

The BattBeato pairing is nothing but selfcest and narcism. This is the ultimate truth that Ryukishi is hiding.

[Anonymous No.]

I’m sure everyone’s heard of the Battler is culprit theory. Where Battler did everything and Beatrice is actually Battler. But what about the other way around?

Beatrice is Battler’s image of the perfect woman. At the same time, Battler is Beatrice’s image of the perfect man. Tall, muscular, handsome, outgoing and resilient. That’s right! Meta-Battler is merely a creation Beatrice thought up.

The real Battler never turned up in 1986, as demonstrated in Lion’s world. He is happy enough and doesn’t need to return to the Ushiromiya family, as demonstrated in the letters he sends to his cousins. His grandparents from Asumu’s side left him their house, as stated in EP1, so it’s not like he needed Ushiromiya money.

Beatrice gave up waiting for him and created a perfect version of Battler that would return to her. The games are a way to torment him for all the suffering that he put her through. Beatrice also wants Battler to remember his sin, but since the real Battler had shown no indication that he remembers or cares, the meta-Battler reflects that and has a really bad memory concerning 1980.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7748425

Explain who Tohya is supposed to be then.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7747255
Goats are a great representation for the witch hunters, because they're faceless antagonists and there's like a million of them. Being a goat butler isn't fundamentally bad. Dlanor and Will were even happy to fight with the ones who had developed theories.

The goats that got cut down and mocked at the beginning of the fight were the disorganized ones that had crappy post-EP2 theories like "the door chain was extra long" or who said that the mystery isn't solvable. If all of the goats were like that, Battler's forces wouldn't have been pushed back to the Golden Land. But instead, the goats regrouped and starting forming stronger theories that couldn't be countered easily, just like we learned how to reason better over the course of the games.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7748570

And you should find the truth, but the truth isn't important you should hide it.

Wat

[Anonymous No.]

>>7748718
>implying I didn't reject the fantasy choice and discovered the truth and killed myself
>implying I'm not dead

[Anonymous No.]

>>7748718
I think Battler was less concerned about Ange finding "the truth" than he was about her forgetting about "the whole truth" (which was permanently lost) and "nothing but the truth" (which she was lumping a bunch of nasty assumptions on top of).

[Anonymous No.]

>>7748779
Actually, that could be the point of the EP7 tea party. When Ange read Eva's diary, it confirmed all of the truthful parts of that fragment, so she was suckered into believing that the ugly interpretation parts of it were also true.

[Anonymous No.]

And he made Beatrice a man. That is unforgivable.

[Anonymous No.]

I complete agree that a lot of Chiru was a clusterfuck and the ending was...lackluster, to say the least, but I don't mind since 1-5 were such a fun ride. 7 was pretty good, too.

For me it's all about the journey, and Umineko gave me an entertaining one for the most part. It's all good.

I ignore the fiction part.

[Anonymous No.]

Chiru doesn't exist, BT's death was a lie, and he'll go back to ghostwriting all of Ryukishi's stories again, we'll get the real Umineko any day now.

I can't even joke about it anymore, I hope R07 will never have another successful series after this, so much time and effort making theories wasted.

[Anonymous No.]

I liked all Umineko EP's equally

[Anonymous No.]

I like the ending, it's not that depressing, at least there is still a chance that Rosa and Maria were happy.

[None !Nipaa0mi0. No.]

The mysteries in Umineko were rather cheap since many relied on Kannon counting as a person. In that case why not count Beatrice as a person as well? She was just as real as him.

And the fact that the explosion is never mentioned in the note describing the aftermath of what happened in the island or that Ange spends all of episode 4 thinking about how her parents died but the exposion that leveled the island never crosses her mind was also cheap. At least in Higurashi Ryukishi was justified in not mentioning the disaster early on since Onikakushi-hen ends before it happens and it never occurs in Watanagashi-hen.

And the whole "there are multiple truths" was disappointing as well. So because Maria thought there was only one Sakutaro despite the fact it was mass-produced, the former is true for her and the red truth applies? That makes no sense. If someone thinks the earth if flat then that counts as truth? And the whole "the truth doesn't matter and one should simply remain ignorant and immersed in his delusions" was a message I can't agree with.

[None !Nipaa0mi0. No.]

>>7748945
I suppose that's true. We know almost nothing about the personalities of the people involved since the first two episodes were written by someone who only saw most of them once a year and the remaining ones were written by someone that had not even met them since he was 12 (except for meeting them once after that) and had amnesia to boot.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7749194
>She was just as real as him.

Well, no, she wasn't.

Kanon is a 'person'. He's an existence created to be a 'person'. Beatrice, on the other hand, is explicitly NOT a human being, but rather a witch.

[None !Nipaa0mi0. No.]

>>7749439
If he was treated as a human being in Yasu's stories I guess that would have been acceptable even if Kannon wasn't actually real outside of Yasu's and Battler's fiction. However don't the mysteries rely on Kannon not leaving a corpse because he doesn't have a body of his own? The whole "personalities count as people but witches don't count as personalities" seems pretty weak.

[Anonymous No.]

Why do people hate Ep.6 again?

[Anonymous No.]

Everything after Episode 1 just got worse and worse. I dropped it at 4 and never looked back but for old times sake I just read through this thread and am glad to know I made the right decision. R07 is finished.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7749519
>lolololol I didn't like he's doujin shit
>he's finished XD
Grow up.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7749594
his*

[Anonymous No.]

>>7749194
>So because Maria thought there was only one Sakutaro despite the fact it was mass-produced, the former is true for her and the red truth applies?
But Beato couldn't finish her statement, so the red truth is invalid:

#ff0000楼座が娘の誕生日のために作った、世界でたった一つの#ffffff、
`#ff0000Made by Rosa for her daughter's birthday, and in the entire world, the only#ffffff, `\
ld r,$BEA_GamanA7,80
;　………あ、@………………ぅ、@……………あ……、」\
;＜ベアト
`.........ah,`@` ...............u,`@` ...............ah......"`\

[Anonymous No.]

>>7749469
If I remember correctly, Kanon isn't specifically counted as a "person" anywhere in the novel except in EP6 when they're talking about physical bodies. Everywhere else, the Japanese only talks about a general class of people-like things that can include humans, aliens, dead bodies, movie characters...

[Anonymous No.]

>>7749600
>If you try to forcefully speak red that cannot be spoken, you choke.
It's more apparent with voices:
http://www.mediafire.com/?9c3523zxudna9wc

[Anonymous No.]

All I got from the whole thing was that Rape-baby wigged out in a case of homolust gone wrong and tricked the rest of his dumb ass family into killing one another for the gold. The trauma Ange experienced was at the realization that her entire family were a bunch of fucked up individuals.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7749467


Lovelovelove, Ohiimr07avatarandimheretoexplainsomeshit,lovelove,shkanonshkanonshkanon,bawwwwbeatriceee
eee

[Anonymous No.]

>>7749467
It was the ep that literally confirmed shannon/kanon being a samefag and how personality count as people.
But of course he kind of retracted the statement by going IT IS ALL FICTION written by others in ep8 but the core ideas are still there basically.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7750060
>It was the ep that literally confirmed shannon/kanon being a samefag
So why were so many people still in denial?

[Anonymous No.]

>>7750086
There were also a bunch of elements pointing at "everything is fiction", so most people thought that one or the other idea was a mislead. Then later it turned out that the mislead was that neither of them were misleads.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7750096
The only people who thought were retards. But that's most of the Umineko fandom so I guess you could say that a lot of people did.
I remember when ShKanontrice was introduced as a theory here and basically the entire fandom went to arms against it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7750104
Most people thought it was wrong because it was too retarded to be true.
Too bad Shkannontrice as a full theory was introduced only after ep6. Before it, there were only some wild ideas.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7749194 pretty much summed it up. I was a diehard fan too and I never expected to bash the story no matter what ending it had. But in episode 7 with the bomb he completely lost me. There were other problems with Umineko sure, but the bomb was just too much, too fucking strange. No matter what I cannot believe that there was actually a bomb on Rokkenjima.

Just try and imagine, ever since the first episode where Battler met the cousins and played on the beach, ever since Beatrice and the closed rooms, there was a bunch of explosives ready to blow up the island at exactly midnight? What the fuck.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7749194
Pretty much summed it up. I was a diehard fan too and I never expected to bash the story no matter what ending it had. But in episode 7 with the bomb he completely lost me. There were other problems with Umineko sure, but the bomb was just too much, too fucking strange. No matter what I cannot believe that there was actually a bomb on Rokkenjima.

Just try and imagine, ever since the first episode where Battler met the cousins and played on the beach, ever since Beatrice and the closed rooms, there was a bunch of explosives ready to blow up the island at exactly midnight? What the fuck.

[Anonymous No.]

bump

[Anonymous No.]

>>7750258
So what did you think happened there, that created catbox, destroying all evidence and was able to kill the last person, when everyone else was already dead?

[Anonymous No.]

>>7750258
Same here.I used to be 07th expansion fan as well. But it wasnt the bomb that piss me off seems since I kind of suspected it was the bomb that kill everyone by ep4.

It was the fucking stupid cross dressing and stupid motive because of homolove crush.
I mean what the fuck going into depression when you realized you hit jackpot by inheriting tons of gold is fucking retarded. Yes blame me for lacking love but I do not see a great love story in this game. Even Mizuki route in YMK has more love.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7750258
>>7750258
Same here.I used to be a 07th expansion fan as well. But it wasnt the bomb that piss me off since I kind of suspected that it was the bomb that killed everyone by ep4.

It was the fucking stupid cross dressing and stupid motive because of homo love crush.
Going into depression when you realized you hit jackpot by inheriting tons of gold is fucking retarded. Yes blame me for lacking love but I do not see a great love story in this game. Even Mizuki route in YMK has more love.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7748415
There's a lot, if you deny that you are in denial.
There are indeed a lot of people that actually liked Umineko and keep silent. But why they keep silent? Because they are a minority. Else it would be the bashers that'd be trolled.

Face it, you can hardly find a VN more hated than Umiunko.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7750853
>Because they are a minority.
I think this only apply to /jp/ and japan. Still rated highly in VNDB.
Ep1-4
>8.81 (816)

Chiru
>8.50 (401)

[Anonymous No.]

>>7737569
>umineko = no hope
What? What do you think the golden land is?
It's hopes and dreams (like Avalon, apparently all white women in Japan have utopias and magic swords).

Plus, Umineko isn't that "dark" compared to a good list of VN's. It's actually quite laid back outside of death/violence aspects.

And R07 made multiple hints towards this outcome since ep1.

That feel when OP can't accept the truth.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7750853

You have offered no evidence that these people exist. You have simply taken their existence for granted, only because you cannot accept your position to be an unpopular one.

And none of that will make Umineko any less shitty. Its shittiness isn't dependent on how many people perceive it as shitty, shittiness is a physical quality like mass and cannot be altered via perceptions.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7750086
>So why were so many people still in denial?

Because Shkannontrice is so retarded that people literally cannot believe that R07 thought it was a good idea.

He did. It's true. And it's fucking terrible writing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7750874
The evidence is under your nose, you are the one that is trying to use as an argument the speculation that there are a lot of people who like it although you can't see them.

Oh and it isn't just 4chan, you can find similar critics in almost every forum.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7750853
Because they moved on. There's no point in continually discussing it and making theories anymore, much less in arguing with haters and trolls. I only do this when I'm in the right mood for some arguing and\or explaining.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7750874
>shittiness is a physical quality like mass

That made me lol. How do you even...

[Anonymous No.]

bump

[Anonymous No.]

I liked this series better when it was about Battler trying to prove magic is bullshit and trying to find the logical answers to the deaths. Anybody trying to defend R07 by saying this wasn't a mystery in the first place, go fuck yourselves. All that wasted time trying to figure out the locked room mysteries. I would have been less mad if the conclusions were like the movie Rashomon.

[Anonymous No.]

I just want to say what I thought personally because I know there is an endless amount of opinion involved with discussion of Umineko.

There is good reason for this, I believe.

The author lead me to believe many, many things while reading. None of them were true. The 'mystery' arcs with the magic discussions are entirely different than the answer arcs in theme, style, etc.
That's why I think that it makes sense to close the first story when Beatrice saves Battler and everything ends happy. Thats the cliche and blockbuster movie conclusion in which Battler moves on past the story and gets back to his life.

The answer arcs are mostly about the unknown, and I think thats why it was so important to end the story like this. It's about the feelings involved in the mystery, not the mystery itself.
Only problem is that the end of the answer arcs didn't let anyone move on. I thought that was a good ending in the sense that no one really got any peace from all that drama and attempts to find the real truth, they just hurt themselves.

[Anonymous No.]

I didn't get past Episode 4 and so far I'm just reading the spoilers. What was the solution for the Witch's Epitaph?

[Anonymous No.]

>>7751937
Gold is behind Beatrice's portrait, you need to smash it open to get into the secret room in there. That's why the portrait changed to Evatrice's when she found the gold in EP3, she had destroyed the portrait but Kinzo had replacements for each family member in case they solve the epitaph so she replaced Beatrice's ruined portrait with hers.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7751953
That's a horrible theory, because Erika isn't even related to the family and yet she had a portrait.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7751937

Kinzo's hometown is some place in Taiwan, it has a train station called Freshwater, follow it down to reach Qilian. "QILIAN" is the six chosen by the key.
The jump you must make then is from QILIAN to QUADRILLION, which appears on the Ushiromiya Chapel. (I forget what it is, it was said in EP2 though, something about QUADRILLION TO ONE in english)

Remove QILIAN from QUADRILLION (offer up the six chosen by the key) (as in literally, the letters on the chapel)
Rearrange the remains to LORDU ("praise my honorable name"), kill them each in turn (gouge the blah and kill) (they are each fitted with a key to turn)
Once the U key is turned, the lion statues on the island each turn and point the way to the gold, which is located at a hidden door behind the chapel (which in turn is the very start of their name: "Ushiromiya" can literally be read as "behind the chapel")

[Anonymous No.]

Umineko is a babby's first VN of the worst kind. It's a bad series, a clusterfuck of setting and characterization that isn't very well done by any aspect, but which attempts to compensate for its weaknesses by adding in excessive shipping faggotry and META. The NEET anon can see this as the shit it is, and may enjoy it, hate it or be indifferent to it, but all the while recognizing that the series itself, regardless of their opinion, is plain bad.

However, these very aspects that try to smear over the shit of its core make it a breeding ground for normal, sociable, underage faggots who engage in every kind of faggotry both online and in the real world. The metaworld characters all trying their hardest to look cool, the magic, the peculiar, colorful clothes, the whole "colored text" faggotry and everything about the Umineko world fuels their escapist fantasies, while the pity-party character backgrounds, emphasis on love, and the overall preachiness of the whole series make it fit just right with the mary-sueish drives of your average preteen and his sense of unwarranted self-importance towards the world. Exactly the kind of shit that makes normals and underage retards eat this shit right the fuck up.

Umineko is basically THE series to attract the most hated visual novel fanbase known to /jp/, which is why, regardless of individual opinions, it is the responsibility of every anon to troll the fuck out of this franchise and everyone who likes it, and ensure that no Umineko threads ever encourage the normalfags to show their faces here

[None !Nipaa0mi0. No.]

>>7750822
Ryukishi: "Umineko is something that cannot be read by people who never fell in love with somebody. It is something that people who have no experience in love and relationships have trouble understanding."

The fact he wrote something that cannot be understood by virgin nerds seems like a pretty terrible strategy.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7752629

He didn't say virgin, he said people that never fell in love. Yasu is a virgin herself.

Anyway, it's pretty easy to guess why /jp/ didn't like the motive, consider their idea of women.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7752787
I thought Yasu was a guy.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7752787
>consider their idea of women

Oh boy here we go.jpg

[None !Nipaa0mi0. No.]

>>7752800
He was. Presumably Nanjo did a sex change operation on him after his ponos was squished and he was raised as a girl. Considering the fact that he can't have sex we can assume that Nanjo botched the job, which isn't surprising considering this wasn't his field.

So Yasu tends to consider himself a girl (despite his gender dysphoria) since he was raised as one.

[Anonymous No.]

Stop writing like a retard

[Mirrored !EhE8ram93U No.]

Let's say this. 17 people die on an island while there's an inheritance dispute. One of those people hadn't been seen in about a year or so prior to that. There's one survivor. She says it was an accident. No other witnesses. A bottle is found, it was the work of a witch, but it has all kinds of details about the lives of those 17 people.

What would you think? Would you really think that magic was real? Or would you think that there were explainable causes for it that didn't depend on magic?

Episode 1 Question: "Is this possible for a Human?" Episode 5 Answer: "Yes."
Episode 2 Question: "Then why all these apparently unsolvable things?" Episode 6 Answer: "Shkannon."
Episode 3 Question: "Would things have been different if the Epitaph was solved/Who is guilty? Episode 7 answer: "No. The murders occur because the Epitaph is solved, not because it isn't. While Yasu may or may not have had a plan, the family would have killed with or without it. They are all ready to kill."

Which leaves us with Episode 4's question:
"What happened on Rokkenjima that day and what does that mean for Ange the last surviving member of the family?"

And Episode 8's Answer:
"What happened on Rokkenjima that day is likely pretty close to what we showed you in Episode 7. However, it's up to Ange to choose her own personal truth and how she wants to remember her family. It's her call whether to see the worst in them or the best in them."

Higurashi is about changing a fate that only APPEARS inescapable.
Umineko is how we as human beings handle an unchangeable tragedy.

So, was it a mystery, was it a fantasy, are the Ushiromiya's good people or are they murderers? Should we drag out their guts at their funerals and expose their ugliness? Or should we put flowers on them and let them rest?

That's the choice for the reader to make.

[Mirrored !EhE8ram93U No.]

And as a final addendum.

If Higurashi is about friendship, hope, and joy...

Umineko is about family, tragedy, and what comes after (moving on).

You can choose friends. You can't choose family. Or your past. Or the bad things that happened in it.

But you can choose what you want to see in your family. We get to see Episode 8's fantasy-- what the Uroshimya's wanted to be but couldn't due to their weaknesses and failings. It's a funeral.

There is a reason we do not put the dead on trial.

[Anonymous No.]

>this entire thread

[Anonymous No.]

>>7752908
Get the fuck out.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7752927

[Anonymous No.]

>>7752885
>>7752907

Thank you for doing this. Really, thank you.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7749600
But she was able to say that he was made by Rosa, so there's no problem here. He's just not unique. In this case it's either a hand-made replica (why would she do this?), or it went mass-produced after her design, maybe even produced by her company.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7752939
>>7752908
>>>/a/

[Anonymous No.]

>>7752885
>>7752907
Or I kill Tohya and resurrect everyone. Turns out, they didn't die at all! Oh sure, a few of them lost a few limbs, but otherwise they're a-ok.

Death of the author, motherfucker.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7752885
This was beautiful, thank you.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7752885
>>7752907
Which would have been fine if it didn't use plot devices that turned out to be extremely pointless in the end.

[None !Nipaa0mi0. No.]

>>7757880
Yeah. I didn't mind the fact it had a bad end. After Higurashi I was expecting Ryukishi to try something different. (I have to say I liked the ending of Higurashi, other than the stupidity of some of the scenes against the Yamainu in the forest.) I guess I expected a cleverer solution. Ryukishi bit more than he could chew and ended up producing a story that was too convoluted for him to create a good explanation.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7758041
I was kind of unhappy with the whole bomb thing. I mean, it was logical and it followed from the clues, but I was still secretly hoping that he would pull out some kind of amazing alternate explanation for the crater that nobody thought of. It might have been better if the bodies just vanished and left the island untouched.

[Anonymous No.]

For me, I really didn't enjoy Umineko to find out "the truth", I just enjoyed the music, and the logic battles. It was fun. That's all I cared about, and liked, because everything else was a clusterfuck. But then again, I'm not done yet, I just finished the first twilight for EP 6.

[Anonymous No.]

1-4 was really good. I enjoyed reading all of it but the shitty boring Ange parts of episode 4, but overall it entertained me more than anything else I have read in a while. The end of episode 3 together with /jp/ was fantastic.

5 was good too, but really 1-4 just kicked the shit out of all of Chiru. I think it was partly because there was a few hours of slice-of-life before the killings actually started, and R07 writes that better than people getting killed actually. He should go work for Kyoani.

[None !Nipaa0mi0. No.]

>>7759467
I was unhappy with the way he hid it. You'd expect both the report describing the aftermath of the case and all the characters discussing the murder to at least mention or think about the fact there was a huge explosion that leveled the island but instead they never do which makes no sense.

[Anonymous No.]

I lost hope for this VN when Beatrice stopped appearing evil.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7762462
I guess the right question now is: why did Tohya decide to write Alliance as if it wasn't common knowledge that there was an explosion and keep his characters from speculating about it? But I don't really have a good answer for that one either, except for something irresponsible like "in reality there wasn't an explosion."

[Anonymous No.]

bump

[None !Nipaa0mi0. No.]

>>7767042
Yeah. You'd think the first thing people would hear about the incident is that there was a huge explosion. Even if they tried to hide that fact it would have been pretty visible to anyone sailing nearby.

[Anonymous No.]

Is this ever going to be 100% translated, or should I just read it with Atlas? I think even The Witch Hunt hates reading it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7768026
I don't get why people keep thinking WH hated it, despite both chrono and klash were pretty positive about it.
Having their only translator busy with a job surely hinder them the most.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7773523

[Anonymous No.]

>logic battle with shounen swords and shit
>grin spreads across my face
>Battler figuring out the truth after he dies or whatever and coming back with a golden sword
>I'd look like a madman to anyone who saw my face then

Fuck, I hated all that shit with Ange. It was like a cancer that overtook the whole story. That and Eva-Beatrice never got answered. I understand why it ended the way it did, some things you never get to know, but he really shouldn't have tried to play for so many teams at once.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7747598
>When so many people are pissed and disgusted about a work, including people that previously claimed to love it, I think there is objectively something wrong.

This, absolutely.

>>7752001

>The jump you must make then is from QILIAN to QUADRILLION, which appears on the Ushiromiya Chapel. (I forget what it is, it was said in EP2 though, something about QUADRILLION TO ONE in english)

"This door opens only at the probability of quadrillion to one"
or something

>(which in turn is the very start of their name: "Ushiromiya" can literally be read as "behind the chapel")

Wat. Then why never have any of them thought about it?

[Anonymous No.]

>>7776042
>Wat. Then why never have any of them thought about it?

Because it's bull. There is absolutely no connection between "Ushiromiya" and the riddle. Solving the riddle doesn't involve going behind the chapel at all.