>Mamizou Futatsuiwa >An unusual youkai that lives outside of Gensokyo. >She's made her way inside this time to help out an old friend in a pinch. ZUN just disproved one of the big Touhou myths. I like it.

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Anonymous Sat Aug 13 05:44:06 2011 No.7734966 [Reply] [Original]

>Mamizou Futatsuiwa
>An unusual youkai that lives outside of Gensokyo.
>She's made her way inside this time to help out an old friend in a pinch.

ZUN just disproved one of the big Touhou myths.

I like it.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 13 05:46:34 2011 No.7734975 File: 11 KB, 200x228, 1312612262274.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Dat Notchen.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 13 05:46:34 2011 No.7734974 Why the greentext and what myth is that?

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 13 05:46:34 2011 No.7734977 >>7734966 So wait, we don't HAVE to make a portal to get to Gensokyo now? There are other ways?

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 13 05:47:05 2011 No.7734981 From the tumbnail I aways think that she has scary snake eyes, you can't unseen it

Anonymous Sat Aug 13 05:47:34 2011 No.7734979

>>7734966
Are you saying that she came from the outside world?

Gensokyo isn't the only place that fantasy beings can live.

The SA characters for example, they don't live in Gensokyo, yet their existence is perfectly fine.

Of course I'm just saying facts and don't know anything yet if she's really from the outside world (nor do I see anything pointing to such specific place).

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 13 05:49:36 2011 No.7734984 >>7734977 Remilia's entire mansion moved there before gaps even were part of touhou canon. It's kinda obvious you can get there without a gap.

Anonymous Sat Aug 13 05:50:06 2011 No.7734989

>>7734977

The ability to leave Gensokyo's probably limited only to extremely powerful youkai. Hence Yukari and now Mamizou are the only ones confirmed for doing it.

Lunarians are incredibly powerful as well, and Oni could apparently leave, but don't really care to since they seem to be fairly comfortable wherever they are already.

Lastly, Sanae/Kanako were also invaders from outside Gensokyo.

So yeah, as I said, it's perfectly possible to enter/leave Gensokyo, but only if you're a top-tier power.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 13 05:51:05 2011 No.7734993 We will get Ran ship with Mamizou 2 EX-bosses

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 13 05:52:36 2011 No.7734996 However, outside of Gensokyo != the Outside World.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 13 05:52:36 2011 No.7734999 Well? What does it disprove? Gensokyo also had a open border policy for youkai.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 13 05:54:06 2011 No.7735008 So wait, are they glasses or two monocles? Any indication from fan art what the fans are leaning towardS?

Anonymous Sat Aug 13 05:55:06 2011 No.7735010

>>7734989
Oh right, by "extremely powerful youkai", I mean in the sense of only the strongest Youkai.. Gods, aliens etc don't count, but apparently are comparable to the strongest youkai.

I guess this means Remy/Flan are also very powerful youkai as well. Well, that or perhaps Patchy did something that ported the SDM there, which wouldn't be too surprising given her immense arcane knowledge.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 13 05:55:36 2011 No.7735012 >>7734999 Many were spreading lies that youkai can't exist outside gensokyo and that human disbelief is killing them. Mamizou is living in a human city amongst humans.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 13 05:57:09 2011 No.7735014 >>7735008 I think I can see a little tiny bridge between the eyes. But, I want to believe that they're two monocles, that glow blue/green even. Because that's a lot cooler.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 13 06:01:08 2011 No.7735023 >>7734999 The "youkai can't live in the real world", I guess. Only, as people pointed out, nowhere does it say she comes from the real world, so the point is moot.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 13 06:01:08 2011 No.7735028 >>7735008 I think I can see a little tiny bridge between the eyes. They're supposed to be old-timey spectacles. But, I want to believe that they're two monocles, that glow blue/green even. Because that's a lot, lot cooler.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 13 06:01:08 2011 No.7735021 fanon just got owned 4 lyfe

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 13 06:01:39 2011 No.7735020 >>7735010 Sakuya's space/time manipulation could work too probably. Really everyone in the SDM with the exception of Mei Ling (and her only kinda) is an extremely powerful Youkai.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 13 06:02:38 2011 No.7735031 >>7735012 >Many were spreading lies that youkai can't exist outside gensokyo and that human disbelief is killing them. I thought Youkai used to visit our world to hunt us for food? (A certain psycho shrine maiden put a stop to that.)

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 13 06:05:38 2011 No.7735040 >>7734989 What the fuck? "If an outsider has the luck to reach the human village, they can be returned safely to the outside world if they go to the Hakurei Shrine." PMiSS "Outsider" article Even humans can leave Gensokyo easily.

Anonymous Sat Aug 13 06:08:09 2011 No.7735048

>>7735012
That is not a lie, the barrier protects the youkai from disappearing and it's been stated in the books. The fact that a common mythological creature known as the Tanuki still exists doesn't disprove that.

We also do not know the time of when she left Sado, it could've been when humans still believed in mythological creatures and Gensokyo's barrier still hadn't been lifted (About 100+ years before the first human moon landing according to Kaguya's profile).

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 13 06:09:09 2011 No.7735049 >>7735040 I imagine that means "easily with aid" Not by their own power

Anonymous Sat Aug 13 06:12:09 2011 No.7735061

>>7735040
I wouldn't exactly say ''easily'', after all, most of the times an outsider crosses the barrier by accident, the destination is often a youkai-filled place like the Forest of Magic or Muenzuka and thus they don't have a high survival rate.

It's still true that any kind of need to be ''powerful enough'' is a load of fanwank.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 13 06:17:39 2011 No.7735074 >>7735023 She live in the human town in the outside world.

Anonymous Sat Aug 13 06:18:39 2011 No.7735076

>>7735049
I don't think ''amount of power'' is something in Gensokyo, I think it's more of your own ability letting you do that. Yukari can do it because she's one of the barrier's original managers and has the ability to manipulate boundaries, Reimu can as well because she's the shrine maiden maintaining the barrier itself, etc.

Mamizou...I don't know, not enough info yet.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 13 06:19:10 2011 No.7735081 >>7735048 Nothing like that was ever stated in the books.

Anonymous Sat Aug 13 06:21:10 2011 No.7735090

The more I think about the tanuki, and now, thinking back on her fight, what we know of her so far and listening to her theme, I've come to a realization -

Mamizou. is. fucking. COOL. Not necessarily cute or sexy (so far, I think fanart will change that fast), but just cool.

I was expecting a tanuki to appear eventually (who wasn't), but I was imagining some throwaway stage 1/2/3 boss, not anything like this.

She's far and away my favorite TD character right now. If she was in Tohosort and I did it right now, she'd probably already break my top 15 or 20. I guess we'll see more about her soon enough.

Anonymous Sat Aug 13 06:22:10 2011 No.7735095

>>7735061
No, it's just simple goddamn logic. You need to be powerful to pass a likewise powerful magical barrier AT WILL.

Your argument is equal to "powerful explosions, tornadoes and the like have been shown to throw people high above the ground, therefore saying that people can't fly is wrong". Learn the difference between an ability and an accident.

Anonymous Sat Aug 13 06:22:41 2011 No.7735093

>It seems she'd lived together with humans in her home town (Sado). Sometimes she'd trick them, but she'd also lend money to the poor and worked diligently on any task she was given, so she integrated well into human society.

There goes the fanon bullshit. Good job ZUN.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 13 06:23:11 2011 No.7735099 >>7735076 Its probably one of those "Only those who know where it is can find it" kind of things

Anonymous Sat Aug 13 06:23:41 2011 No.7735098

>>7735074
We don't know when she left the human world, nor do we know if she went somewhere else before Gensokyo since what isn't part of Gensokyo doesn't have to be part of the outside world (like Hell).

Another thing to take into account is that Tanukis are still revered by some (as are Kappa), even if ZUN were to confirm that she only left the human world recently, this fact could explain her existence (the profile also mentions that since she's a Tanuki, she was always shapeshifting in order to do her mischief or her Robin Hood-ism).

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 13 06:25:42 2011 No.7735106 >>7735098 >She's made her way inside this time to help out an old friend in a pinch. Confirmed for entering very recently. And her profile says she live in Sado.

Anonymous Sat Aug 13 06:27:13 2011 No.7735111

>>7735095
>You need to be powerful to pass a likewise powerful magical barrier AT WILL.

Alright then, is there somewhere in canon that states this fact? No? Too bad. Your inferences are worthless if you're just guessing the reason, there's also no mention of a measure of ''power'' anywhere, only abilities here and there.

Read post >>7735076.

Anonymous Sat Aug 13 06:35:43 2011 No.7735142

>>7735111
>is there somewhere in canon

brb, touhouwiki

>Read post >>7735076.

He's pretty much saying exactly what I'm saying, apart from limiting the meaning of "power" to "might", rather than "ability". It's a small semantic problem that has no bearing on the real topic at hand.

Anonymous Sat Aug 13 06:37:12 2011 No.7735153

>>7735106
No, that only states that she entered GENSOKYO recently, that does not mean she's been in the outside world since Gensokyo isn't the only place where fictional creatures can exist.

>>7735081
Read the entirety of CoLA if you will.

I'll put up a few quotes.

>In the outside world, things of fantasy don’t exist. Or rather, things that don’t exist are called fantasy. That’s why humans invented tools that can create fantasies.”

>On the other hand, an illusionary creature is one that can only be found in Gensokyo. It goes without saying, then, that both Marisa and I are also illusionary creatures.

>The outside items that fall into Gensokyo include items that came through the barrier by accident, items that became ‘illusionary’ because no one used them anymore,

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 13 06:45:12 2011 No.7735190 >>7735153 Ever heard the term retcon? Besides, what a character believes don't equal absolute truth.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 13 06:45:12 2011 No.7735191 >>7735111 First finding, PMiSS Yukari article: >The boundary separating Gensokyo and the outside world. It is said it is extremely difficult for youkai or humans to pass through, and so logically it creates a separate world.

Anonymous Sat Aug 13 06:48:12 2011 No.7735207

>>7735142
But he just said that he didn't think your way with the ''power based on sheer amount''. The point was that Touhous' ability to surpass the barrier was based more on their original ability, if a weakling like Luna had the power of ''breaking through any barrier'' then she would be able to go over the barrier (albeit risking her existence). This is because Touhous' abilities aren't based on physical power, but on the power of concepts, this doesn't grant absolute freedom however, but it does more than what a single ability might suggest (eg: Reimu's ''ability to fly'' extends to that of going beyond reality itself) or less (Miyako can't eat life/death/virginity etc.).

However, it all seems to follow what ZUN likes best without an actual understandable standard.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 13 06:54:43 2011 No.7735232 >>7735207 I'm pretty sure Miyako could eat a hymen, if she could get to one.

Anonymous Sat Aug 13 06:54:43 2011 No.7735234

>>7735191
...That quote doesn't help your case. Since it doesn't state your original point, it falls to the realm of inferences. I could say it's difficult because barely anyone can do it other than with accidents (the accidents are the barrier itself failing spontaneously).

Your point was ''sheer power'', while certainly there are Touhous with greater skills and abilities than others, there's no mention at all of there being an actual measure of power, notice that this is different from magic, as Patchouli is indeed very ''powerful'' in that aspect.

Anonymous Sat Aug 13 06:54:43 2011 No.7735236

>>7735207
Obviously. But, as I said, that's a semantic problem. Let's just agree "powerful" was the wrong word to use and leave it aside, hm?

And another finding:
>As an aside, the dragon can go anywhere, regardless of the Great Border. It is said that it can move itself freely even to the outside world, the Netherworld or Hell.

This may not seem much until you recall that exception proves the rule. No need to point this out if it was a common ability of every creature. There's a need to point this out if it is to demonstrate how powerful it is. Do the math.

Anonymous Sat Aug 13 06:56:43 2011 No.7735241

>>7735190
It doesn't matter, they're there for a reason, there's no point for ZUN to create false info unless they're contradicted right afterwards.

This is also Rinnosuke we're speaking of, he's very knowledgeable of everything Gensokyo and shrine maiden related.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 13 06:56:43 2011 No.7735242 >>7735234 >Your point was ''sheer power'' Now you're just trolling.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 13 07:07:15 2011 No.7735285 >>7735093 Gensokyo never was a super secret special club, really.

>>	Stalker of Omsk Sat Aug 13 07:08:15 2011 No.7735288 File: 882 KB, 850x1130, smiling koishi.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 13 07:09:14 2011 No.7735290 Is everyone in TD some kind of heretic?

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 13 07:09:45 2011 No.7735291 File: 160 KB, 503x1214, h.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Sat Aug 13 07:10:14 2011 No.7735292

>>7735236
The Dragon is the almighty god of Gensokyo that is beyond anything conceivable, comparing it anything else is ridiculous. You know what its ability is? Creation and Destruction of everything, it's like Flandre except backwards compatible.

This is not the kind of ''power'' we're talking about, using the fact that the Dragon can go through the barrier as an valid argument is like saying that Yukari being able to pass through the barrier is a valid argument as well.

There's still no mention of a measure of raw power that each Touhou could have, and even then, each Touhou could be ''powerful'' for different reasons, Yukari has her ability, Patchouli has her magic, Reimu has her genes, they could all be considered powerful by sheer logic, but they cannot be called powerful in terms that could relate to universal concepts as you are suggesting. The fact that Patchouli is a great magician does not mean she could break through the barrier, for example.

>>7735242
And now you plan to change your original argument?

>>7734989
>extremely powerful youkai
>>7735010
>I guess this means Remy/Flan are also very powerful youkai as well
(Despite not having any kind of ability related to it, you still related it to sheer power)

>>7735095
>You need to be powerful to pass a likewise powerful magical barrier AT WILL.

I don't see where my words go wrong.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 13 07:17:16 2011 No.7735303 >>7735292 Did you somehow miss: >Let's just agree "powerful" was the wrong word to use and leave it aside, hm? Arguing with someone who has already fucking agreed to your point? Yup, you're trolling allright. Or just bloody stupid.

Anonymous Sat Aug 13 07:24:48 2011 No.7735323

>>7735303
Bah, thought you were actually someone decent to debate with and not just someone who resorts to insults in desperation.

By the way, post >>7735236 kind of told me (''Do the math'') that you still had...doubts. I was clarifying in case you can't take anything but as an offense.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 13 07:29:48 2011 No.7735333 Did you all forget about the youkai cooks who venture outside to get delicious human meat? >>7735020 We still don't whether Sakuya joined the sdm before or after they got into Gensoukyou, or how old she is (apart from Akyuu's speculations).

>>	/jp/ Smog Subsider !A0XGKONtPA Sat Aug 13 07:32:18 2011 No.7735338 >>7734981 from the ful nail i cant think that she has weird flippin' eyes really i dont get it

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 13 08:14:25 2011 No.7735457 can't spell Mamizou Futatsuiwa without futa

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 13 08:19:54 2011 No.7735475 >>7735457 but you can if you use Hutatsuiwa

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 13 08:23:54 2011 No.7735490 >>7735153 You do realize all he's saying is magic and youkai no longer belong in the outside world right?

Stalker of Omsk Sat Aug 13 08:33:57 2011 No.7735518
File: 535 KB, 1748x2480, smiling snake.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Forgot text; but - That means entering Gensokyo is possible.

Now I need to find (myself or with help from people of internets) method to open portal.

Th14 is waiting.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 13 08:35:58 2011 No.7735526 >>7735518 >Forgot text; but - That means entering Gensokyo is possible. The hard part isn't getting in; it is to get out alive again.

>>	Stalker of Omsk Sat Aug 13 08:37:00 2011 No.7735535 File: 422 KB, 670x800, yume dressed as cat.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7735526 You are crazy.

Anonymous Sat Aug 13 08:42:31 2011 No.7735544

>TH14
>Mamizou decides to cause chaos by stealing Reimu's donation box and flees into the real world, so Reimu and Marisa chase her
>midnight raid through a crowded city, bosses include drunk salarywoman who vomits danmaku, softball-player practicing after-dark with her godly mult-shot skills, female police officer, and the boss is some rich Atheist who shoots anti-faith bullets

>>	Stalker of Omsk Sat Aug 13 09:00:33 2011 No.7735560 File: 36 KB, 512x383, yukari looking.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7735544 What?

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