/jp/ - Otaku Culture

[Anonymous No.]

How to make JRPG good again?

[Freezing !qSaya2MQ6o No.]

lol ask /v/

[Anonymous No.]

Fuck off, gorespammer

[Anonymous No.]

I think all the best tricks have been already used. Thats why there wont come out any good JRPGs unless they are remakes.

Ofcourse most of the old jrps werent even THAT good. They just have so much nostalgy value.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7648281
>asking /v/

[Freezing !qSaya2MQ6o No.]

>>7648340
JRPGs are video games, right?

we only play flavor of the month MMOs and VNs here, bub

[Anonymous No.]

>>7648347
JAPANESE ROLE-PLAYING GAMES

[Anonymous No.]

How do I wrong board?

[Anonymous No.]

The 90s list includes a lot of bad games. The image as a whole excludes a lot of good games.

However, JRPGs are certainly in decline, but this is a social, economic and technological problem.

Fewer westerners are interested in JRPGs due to 1) backlash against Japanese culture combined with 2) traditional PC genres (WRPG, FPS) finally being discovered by the console kiddies.

Interest in consoles has decreased drastically in the east, while the west still doesn't have much love for handhelds. This makes choosing a platform for any Japanese game difficult, and no viable platform means no release.

Development costs continue to increase, making large games, niche games, and games produced by relatively small companies (JRPGs often being all of the above) much less viable.

Etc.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7648347
>we only play flavor of the month MMOs
>playing multiplayer games
>/jp/

[Anonymous No.]

>>7648384
So we can idle in dark corners, just like real life.

[Sakura !RAILgUnr8s No.]

>>7648377
I don't really buy into that. If a good JRPG is made on the right console, it will sell well. Look at VC, it sold what, almost a million units?

And the development costs seems overblown to me. Not everything needs tons of CG video like FF. Look at the Ar Tonelico series, they're perfectly fine, niche RPGs and only sell like, 200k units.

I think it is more an issue with an ageing Japan, and shifting tastes. There are less and less young people each year.

[Anonymous No.]

Remember when Capcom still make RPG?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7gZXGYN1zg

[Anonymous No.]

>>7648401
VC is a turn-based shooter, not an RPG. Since the west loves shooters, it naturally did well.

Development costs on the PS3 are about $20 million. Development costs on the PS2 were about $4 million. Gust, Compile Heart, Idea Factory, etc. manage by having the worst graphics this gen by far, and most of their current gen games are substantially worse than their earlier products.

Ageing might be relevant, too, though.

[Anonymous No.]

Tunnel run rpgs dont sell as good as they used, thats why companies dont waste resources to make them. Good jrpgs need lot of resources and that costs. Nowdays people play social games like wii-games, war fps games and MMOs.

[Anonymous No.]

Huh.....it never occurred to me that Princess Maker 2 was an RPG. I always thought of it more like a Harvest Moon type of game. Well, I guess since there are stats and crap in it..(Loved Princess Maker 2 BTW)

[Anonymous No.]

Looks like J-rpgs got a lot less gay.

Op likes to play as men in tights.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7648434
Most boring thing i've ever seen.

[Anonymous No.]

Go back to /v/. All of you.

[Sakura !RAILgUnr8s No.]

>>7648439
It's still a SRPG. Just because the weapons are guns doesn't make any difference. And it sold just as well in Japan as it did in the US.

Development costs on the PS3 are not consistent. If it cost 20 million dollars to make any game on the PS3, I'm sure Gust would be bankrupt right now, as they wouldn't have even made half that back from Ar Tonelico 3. Graphics in AT3 and PS3 atelier games are perfectly fine anyway, and the games being worse than their predecessors is just opinion.

They just need to change the way they do things to sell more. Look at Tokimeki memorial. The first one sold a million units 15 years ago, yet the latest one, 4, didn't even break 100k. You could extrapolate and say that the dating sim is dying, just like people do about the JRPG genre, but then you have dating sims like Love Plus which come along and sell loads again.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7648456
PM2 was very popular in my country back in 90s
I think it's becuase the RPG elements

[Anonymous No.]

>>7648472
It's not just that the weapons are guns. You aim the guns and tell them when to shoot. You take cover. You aim and throw grenades. It's turn-based Call of Duty.

I already acknowledged differences in development costs, as you know, by pointing out that games which avoid high development costs have bad graphics and are still GENERALLY CONSIDERED BY FANS to be worse overall.

Also, if JRPGs have to change in order to sell, that's meaningless. If they change, they won't be JRPGs anymore -- the same as how Resident Evil is generally considered to no longer be survival horror.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7648472
> Love Plus which come along and sell loads again.

surprisedly, Love Plus sold only 240k

[Anonymous No.]

>How to make JRPG good again?
Hyperdimension Neptunia 2

[Sakura !RAILgUnr8s No.]

>>7648501
What the heck are you talking about? Because it adds depth to the strategy element by requiring aiming, and allowing cover, it is somehow not an RPG any more? What do you even define as an RPG then?

>>7648506
That's quite a bit, quarter of a million, for the type of game it is. And then LovePlus+ with minimal changes and obviously a small development cost sold another 200k. Whether or not it sells millions of copies, it still was extremely profitable for Konami, which is all that matters if we want more dating sims.

[Sudo !Tohsaka8ks No.]

>no Nier on the list

[Anonymous No.]

I think advertising is a much more important factor these days. before you could get by with a few magazine ads and word of mouth, but now you can't compete with million dollar ad campaigns.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7648521
Nier is shit.

and no, the music is not so special either. No variety.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7648521
Nier is pretty awful until the second timeskip just because the story doesn't move at all. This turns a lot of people off of the game.

[Anonymous No.]

sales figures for New IPs

>End of Eternity or Resonance of Fate(PS3):184k (360):41k

>>Valkyria Chronicles(PS3):142k、(psp):83k → Valkyria Chronicles 2（PSP):147k

>Blue Dragon (XBOX360):208k

>Demon's Souls (PS3):169k

>The Last Remnant (XBOX360):160k

>The last story(Wii) 150k

>NieR Replicant(PS3):134k

>Infinite Undiscovery(XBOX360):113k

>Lost Odyssey (XBOX360):109k

[ｱﾉﾝｵﾌﾊﾞﾝｺｸ No.]

nintendo DS killed jrpgs

[Anonymous No.]

>>7648275
>>7648264

This Virtual Reality program is insane, it's like I really am browsing /v/!

[Anonymous No.]

>>7648521
Nier has a good soundtrack but it fails as a game.

recent JRPGs that should've been on there are Radiant Historia and Recettear.

[Sudo !Tohsaka8ks No.]

>>7648524
You're shit, and the music is great.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7648519
The game is almost entirely devoid of RPG elements in the first place. What makes you call it an RPG? Anime graphics and turn-based gameplay? The RPG elements it does have are similar to those of Devil May Cry 3, and no one calls it an RPG.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7648524

>Nier Shit
>No variety in music.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1CjxQXXA7o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiDI4GZMVF0&feature=related

and

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8XsjF_QUNw&feature=related

Sound the very similar to you? Are you tone deaf perhaps?

[Freezing !qSaya2MQ6o No.]

How many sales is 'Big' in Japan?

[Sudo !Tohsaka8ks No.]

>>7648543
It really depends on the budget of the game. You can't compare something like FFXIII versus Disgaea 3.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7648542
maybe we just differ in taste. to me these DO sound all the same and super bland.

this is good RPG music in my book
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jho-peCAKs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d972IJMYnng
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAw3lOoA7yQ

[Anonymous No.]

2010 yearly sales

1 Pocket Monsters Black / White (DS) 5,050,908
2 Monster Hunter Portable 3rd (PSP) 3,762,348
3 Wii Party (Wii) 1,682,199
4 New Super Mario Bros. Wii (Wii) 1,455,548 (Tatal 4,202,418)
5 Dragon Quest VI: Maboroshi no Daichi (DS) 1,341,074
6 Dragon Quest Monsters: Joker 2 (DS) 1,227,261
7 Tomodachi Collection (DS) 1,047,336 (Taotal 3,552,501)
8 Super Mario Galaxy 2 (Wii) 940,767
9 Inazuma Eleven 3: Sekai e no Chousen!! Bomber / Spark (DS) 875,110
10 Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker (PSP) 834,992

[Anonymous No.]

>>7648536
Recettear is nearly 5 years old, champ.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7648558

Yeah, neither the tempo, beat, structure, nor style of any of those are really similar.

It's odd to see someone state this with that style of music though. I've heard a lot of the old "all metal sounds the same" stuff, but this is a new one.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7648563
Speaking of which, holy shit the Wikipedia page for Recettear is about 6 straight paragraphs of sucking Carpe Fulgur's cock for "adding plurals to items that don't exist in Japanese" and "being only one of a handful of Japanese games to succeed in the last ten years."

Jesus christ.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7648558
Hahaha.

Good music:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HLb9nya88o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhrRyS_reAo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqH1VrhRYFM

[Anonymous No.]

>I grew up, why don't video games for children appeal to my adult tastes.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7648577
>/jp/
>adult tastes

[Anonymous No.]

>>7648583

>can't into sarcasm

[Sakura !RAILgUnr8s No.]

>>7648539
What makes you call it not an RPG? I constantly see it described as an SRPG with action elements, from the west and Japan. I don't see how having the ability to cover and aim, make it less of an SRPG. You still level up, you still manage your party, you still have the strong narrative, you still have items and everything I find in other SRPGs. I'm not sure what RPG elements it is lacking to make it lose that title.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7648575
decent enough

[Anonymous No.]

>>7648577
On the grand scheme of things, it's still considered juvenile, no matter how these days there are more frat boys and niggers manhandling their controllers.

[Francis York Morgan !mbHjxjfHlA No.]

So anyway, what good JRPGs are on the horizon? Dark Souls and Devil Survivor 2 are the only ones I can think of. FF13-2 might be okay too, but I'm not excited for it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7648548

One's actually good.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7648593
> You still level up
No. You level up certain jobs and anyone assigned to one of those jobs is more effective because of it. Same as DMC3.

>you still manage your party
No. You manage units which are identical aside from their jobs and a few throwaway quirks. Choosing between Sonic, Tails, or Sonic and Tails in S3&K is more like "managing a party" than this.

>you still have the strong narrative
Not even close.

> you still have items
You have weapons. That's it. Nothing else.

[Sakura !RAILgUnr8s No.]

>>7648605
Wow, VC must have really upset you somehow.

[Francis York Morgan !mbHjxjfHlA No.]

Valkyria is a turn-based strategy game.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7648599
Final Fantasy Type-0 looks like it could be much better than XIII or XIII-2, but it might be a ways away.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7648610
It was my first PS3 game and I like it quite a bit. It's simply not an RPG, and it never will be, no matter how much you or anyone else says otherwise.

[Sakura !RAILgUnr8s No.]

>>7648618
But you still never described any of the RPG elements it is lacking, and instead argued semantics. It's considered an SRPG anywhere you go.

[Sakurada !Jun.1bGALk No.]

>>7648623
You just listed all of the RPG elements you think it has and I demonstrated that it's lacking all of them. Is that not enough to satisfy you? You're being unreasonable.

[ZUN !barYV1VtIA No.]

VC is a tactical RPG, not a strategy RPG.

HUGE difference to atustimics.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7648649
>atustimics

Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae.

[Anonymous No.]

It's like I'm on /mu/ discussing music genres (I think, I don't go actually on /mu/)
Who cares about labels

[Anonymous No.]

I gave up on JRPGs mostly because they cram too much into them these days.

I just want a game to walk around, find new items, and slay monsters. Every time I run into a "gambling place" in these games, where they want you to waste hours on hours on random luck to get items, I feel like quitting and never returning.

In other words, I like JRPG, but they only sell JAmusementPark these days.

[Francis York Morgan !mbHjxjfHlA No.]

>>7649072
I don't think I've ever come across a gambling area that wasn't completely optional.

Try out The Last Remnant if you want a good RPG. It's the best game Square Enix has made in the last decade.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7648275
This picture is ridiculous troll material, it lists a lot of shitty games and ignores great recent ones like the Disgaea series. And lets not forget how much fun we all had playing RANCE.

I can only imagine it was made by 15 year olds who just discovered older games and think they were all awesome when that simply wasn't true.

[Anonymous No.]

>Dark Souls & Demon Souls
>Bad RPGs

Nearly got me there, OP.

8/10

[Anonymous No.]

>>7649084
Rance isn't a JRPG...It's a porn game.

[Anonymous No.]

Very few jrpgs are objectively good

That you remember so many of them being "good" is merely nostalgia

[Anonymous No.]

>>7649084
Almost ten years and I still have to say Disgaea is pretty shit.

>>7649103
Then enlighten, dear anon. What objectively makes a good RPG?

[Suigin !fKazami5bE No.]

kill OP

[Anonymous No.]

>>7649171
I chuckled

[ZUN !barYV1VtIA No.]

Best video game genre out there next to 2D fighters and shoot-em-ups.

I wish modern FPS games weren't so dumbed down. And I wish Western Adventure games weren't so dead.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7649162
Sorry, your opinion isn't shared by everyone.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7648275
>tries to make a list of good JRPGs in the 90's
>doesn't even include Phantasy Star 4, probably the best of them

Go eat a hundred thousand dicks and don't come back until you're done.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7649196
And where is Persona 1? That game was good man.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7649195
Funny thing? Neither is yours. Welcome to the world, my friend.

>>7649196
Second one down in the 1993 column, you blind human.

In any case, what's with the huge skip between 99 and 09? There was plenty released between then that wasn't dismissible as bad or mediocre.

Besides which, one toting the idea that jRPGs/RPGs have declined should already have at least ONE idea they think would put them back in strength.

[Anonymous No.]

>Mother 2
>not just Earthbound
holy dryhumping weeaboo, what is this shit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7649235
That game is for girls.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7649230
How to stop JRPG's suffering:

Morality system that ultimately changes nothing but a few lines of dialogue.
Dialogue choices. Bonus points if text is highlighted blue or red in order to tell you if it will make you good or evil.
Lots of romance subplots, that end with you fucking your whore of choice
A gigantic open world that you spend more time traversing than actually playing the game

[Anonymous No.]

>>7649162
>What objectively makes a good RPG?

Pick a jrpg from that list
Sit down a person that has never played that game or any in it's series and have them play it.

Do they enjoy the game beyond the flaws of the timeframe? Has it aged well?

That's an objectively good rpg(or game).

Inflict that brutal test on any year on that chart and you'll find only a handful of games that are actually good. Just slightly more than there nowadays.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7649254
I was about to say you make a shitty scientist, but then I realized something. In my smartassed attempt, I asked from the wrong angle. The only ones who should really be asking what "objectively" makes a good rpg are actual developers. And not fans.

Because quite frankly, new on the block or old hat, our tastes are diversified as fuck and no two games are going to bear the same experience. Without certain control factors, it's just not worth it to ask our opinion on jack-shit.

>>7649195
>>7649230
Being a textbook example.

[Anonymous No.]

>>7649254
What a great idea. Let's go and show Final Fantasy to a COD retard.

[Anonymous No.]

>List old Atelier games

>Don't list Totori and Meruru

It's like I'm really in /v/!

[Anonymous No.]

>>7649294
It's a /v/-tier chart what did you expect?

[Anonymous No.]

>>7649230
I hate to spell this out ... AGAIN but there are only 2 methods by which artwork can be measured, how it's received by critics and how it's received by the public.

Disgaea was well received by critics, it also sold well. Your individual opinion that it was shit matters 0 in the face of evidence to the contrary that, yup, Disgaea was a great game.

Sorry to rain on your parade my friend but my opinion, only when shared by the population, is greater than yours.

[Anonymous No.]

Right. Let's destroy that thought.

Your logic justifies all pop music, all blue grass, all R&B, ALL forms of rap. You just said Justin Bieber is a wonderful and talented artist because he's popular and sells out venues. And yes, there are plenty of critics and serious journalists that have no problem with the majority of those subjects, both for hideous reasons and also illogical, pure ones (being "fans").

And that's why I can't follow your theory. It's JUST your theory, and a dangerous one at that.

To take it a step further...artwork? Really?

[Mush !lYtRBoeK.2 No.]

>>7651633
Actually, because everything is subjective, the only way to measure the quality of things is by the overall opinion of society on the subject.

Not that I agree with this idea, but it is logical to use society's take on something on a matter when it is impossible to be objective on said matter.

After all, we are human. We are part of a society of humans. This society is our law, what they want, what they believe; those are the rule. Because we are part of the society.

That said, I also believe being illogical and opposing such dumbassery is fine too, as humans are illogical. Then again, one's illogic is another's logic, right?[

[Anonymous No.]

>>7649196
>tries to make a list of good JRPGs in the 90's
>doesn't even include Phantasy Star 4, probably the best of them
>Go eat a hundred thousand dicks and don't come back until you're done.

This is the reason why I don't like baka gaijin talk about 90s JRPG

Becuase you can't recongazined box art for japan version

And you probley barely know any classic JRPG on the list

[Anonymous No.]

>>7651633
don't talk shit about bluegrass or I'll come to your house and poop on your lawn